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one Rhino (with havoc missiles), plus a riptide, plus crisis suits, and possibly a heldrake, might work

Personally, I like it.

It's never failed to be useful in my games.

I run it either with nothing, or just a Dirge Caster these days.
Firing the Battle Cannon as it moves, snapshotting the Reaper Autocannon and just generally being a big nasty death machine.

And combined with a Land Raider with C.Terms and a Black Mace Lord (or a Black Mace Daemon Prince and just C.Terms in the raider), a Vindicator, a Heldrake and a bunch of CSM there are enough big threats it doesn't draw all that much fire.

AV12/12/10 with a 5+*, IWND is pretty tough too.
Very tough compared to my main armies (Dark Eldar) to fly paper aeroplane.

But at the end of the day, if you want a big stompy robot, then go for the big stompy robot.
It's a little pricey points wise, but if you don't load it up with extra power fists and such, it'll generally do an equivalent ammount of damage.

darkcloak wrote:
Just plunk Deffy down on your back-line and drop pie plates on everyone. Laugh maniacally when you regain that lost hull point at the end of your turn. Deffy too big to get into cover? Well then! Use Deffy as cover! Chuckle grimly as your opponent tries to draw LOS through a powerfist. Worried about spending too many points on one unit? Move on then sucka cuz Warhammer ain't for you.

You have heard of horde armies, haven't you? Things like 4ppm Zombies, 6ppm Orks etc...
Or that hyper-efficient heldrake....

darkcloak wrote:Hey and doesn't the Ordnance thing not apply because the Defiler is a heavy walker? I thought there was something in there about that...

The Defiler is a normal walker, and the "Heavy" vehicle type does not affect ordnance weapons.

One thing people forget about with the Defiler is the battle cannon combined with the Daemonforge special rule. Ordnance lets you roll two dice when armor penning and picking the result. Daemonforge lets you reroll the dice to pen. That's 4 possible chances to crack open a vehicle on str 8, which should be enough for nearly anything.

While the power scourge is pretty expensive, it can help one of the main problems all walkers face in CC. Namely, getting around that 4+ to hit almost all its targets. A decent roll on the d3 for the scourge can mean you're hitting on 3's, which can make a huge difference in the number of hits it inflicts. And with the huge area taken up by a Defiler, chances are you're going to be in base to base with nearly all the enemy models.

 Badablack wrote:
One thing people forget about with the Defiler is the battle cannon combined with the Daemonforge special rule. Ordnance lets you roll two dice when armor penning and picking the result. Daemonforge lets you reroll the dice to pen. That's 4 possible chances to crack open a vehicle on str 8, which should be enough for nearly anything.

That is something I have never considered. Well observed indeed.

 Sparkadia wrote:

 Badablack wrote:
One thing people forget about with the Defiler is the battle cannon combined with the Daemonforge special rule. Ordnance lets you roll two dice when armor penning and picking the result. Daemonforge lets you reroll the dice to pen. That's 4 possible chances to crack open a vehicle on str 8, which should be enough for nearly anything.

That is something I have never considered. Well observed indeed.

That looks like a good anti Av-14. Bye bye Monolith/LR.


And hey, they're 200+ pts each!

Leman Rus is 150 points, it has 14/13/10 and a battlecannon, that should put some perspective on the long range survivability / points efficiency of deffy. You could have 2 nurgle votlw obliterators for the cost of deffy!

wtnind wrote:
Leman Rus is 150 points, it has 14/13/10 and a battlecannon, that should put some perspective on the long range survivability / points efficiency of deffy. You could have 2 nurgle votlw obliterators for the cost of deffy!

Mm.
0They might not be as destructive on turn 1 on MEQ infantry, but their firepower lasts.

No not really in my experience... Battlecannons are anything but guaranteed to hit. I've lost my defiler on Turn1/2 way too many times to run it again/

Plus i'm just way too in love with my Obliterators, much more efficient and useful. Give the Defiler AV13 and maybe i'll field it again.

 MephistonLoD wrote:
No not really in my experience... Battlecannons are anything but guaranteed to hit. I've lost my defiler on Turn1/2 way too many times to run it again/

Plus i'm just way too in love with my Obliterators, much more efficient and useful. Give the Defiler AV13 and maybe i'll field it again.

I meant the Oblits last better.

Ap 3 pieplates are better against MEQ infantry on T1 than any Oblits, but Oblits last and are more versatile. And can be buffed better.

Use it as an soul grinder in an allied detachment. With Phelm bombardment it is actually a WYSIWYG model.

In the chaos codex it is ludicrously overpriced unfortunately.

 buddha wrote:
Use it as an soul grinder in an allied detachment. With Phelm bombardment it is actually a WYSIWYG model.

In the chaos codex it is ludicrously overpriced unfortunately.

Good suggestions for this include:

Primary: CSM
Allied: Daemons

Daemon list:

HQ:
Be'lakor (Use him to buff w/e, and mind control opponent's shooty)

Troops
Whatever daemon type you want (I'd go with horrors - deep striking fire support, and only 9ppm)

Heavy:
Soul Grinder w/ DoN, Phlegm Bombardement (March up, possibly buff with invisibility because yolo, shoot and smash at will)

 Selym wrote:

 MephistonLoD wrote:
No not really in my experience... Battlecannons are anything but guaranteed to hit. I've lost my defiler on Turn1/2 way too many times to run it again/

Plus i'm just way too in love with my Obliterators, much more efficient and useful. Give the Defiler AV13 and maybe i'll field it again.

I meant the Oblits last better.

Ap 3 pieplates are better against MEQ infantry on T1 than any Oblits, but Oblits last and are more versatile. And can be buffed better.

AP3 and MEQs? Brother that's what Heldrakes are for

I made the mistake of buying one. Used it, and then immediately bought soulgrinder bits off ebay. It doesn't do too much better, mostly because Tau. But they are cool looking paper weights.

 MephistonLoD wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 MephistonLoD wrote:
No not really in my experience... Battlecannons are anything but guaranteed to hit. I've lost my defiler on Turn1/2 way too many times to run it again/

Plus i'm just way too in love with my Obliterators, much more efficient and useful. Give the Defiler AV13 and maybe i'll field it again.

I meant the Oblits last better.

Ap 3 pieplates are better against MEQ infantry on T1 than any Oblits, but Oblits last and are more versatile. And can be buffed better.

AP3 and MEQs? Brother that's what Heldrakes are for

And is the last nail in the coffin for the Defiler

 Selym wrote:

 MephistonLoD wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 MephistonLoD wrote:
No not really in my experience... Battlecannons are anything but guaranteed to hit. I've lost my defiler on Turn1/2 way too many times to run it again/

Plus i'm just way too in love with my Obliterators, much more efficient and useful. Give the Defiler AV13 and maybe i'll field it again.

I meant the Oblits last better.

Ap 3 pieplates are better against MEQ infantry on T1 than any Oblits, but Oblits last and are more versatile. And can be buffed better.

AP3 and MEQs? Brother that's what Heldrakes are for

And is the last nail in the coffin for the Defiler

Last? You forgot about cheap, cost effective blastmasters that you can take 2 for 10 and settle down on an objective with Excess Icon.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 MephistonLoD wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 MephistonLoD wrote:
No not really in my experience... Battlecannons are anything but guaranteed to hit. I've lost my defiler on Turn1/2 way too many times to run it again/

Plus i'm just way too in love with my Obliterators, much more efficient and useful. Give the Defiler AV13 and maybe i'll field it again.

I meant the Oblits last better.

Ap 3 pieplates are better against MEQ infantry on T1 than any Oblits, but Oblits last and are more versatile. And can be buffed better.

AP3 and MEQs? Brother that's what Heldrakes are for

And is the last nail in the coffin for the Defiler

Last? You forgot about cheap, cost effective blastmasters that you can take 2 for 10 and settle down on an objective with Excess Icon.

They're an extra ton of soil on the coffin.