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It's all in Escalation. It's a supplement as well; it's only allowed if you agree to it. So if you see your opponent plopping a bane blade on the table, kindly remind him that he needs your consent first. Then blow it up with lascannons and multimeltas

 BoomWolf wrote:
Yes. something is weird at this.
Running numbers again.


forgot the damn holo field when calculating the rear.
~12 rear shots. not easy.


And I kept using that number as reasoning why the Revenant aint that scary :\

Yeah, I was going to say...But I don't think it's quite that bad. 1/36 will glance. 35/36 hits will penetrate. Penetrating hits will explode half the time. Explode results removes another d3 (average 2) hull points.

(1/36 + 35/36*(1+2)) = 2.94 hull points per hit.

The Revenant has 9 hull points, negates half your damage results, and 2/3 of your shots will miss.

(9*2) / (0.667*2.94) = 9.17 BS4 sweetspot melta shots against rear armor.

Bring a drop-pod full of combi-melta wolf guard and you should have enough firepower to do the job. If you need a turn to clear the bubble wrap, consider keeping the pod in your ongoing reserves and dropping another (Grey Hunters?) instead. You can use the intervening turn(s) to clear the field.

I dunno...due to it's large size, the only problem that bubble wrap should give is stopping you from getting in melta range. I don't see how infantry models can give it a cover save. They are a bit small to obscure a quarter of the titan, I would think.

@Kasrkin229
The new escalation book that just hit. It's a supplement, so watch out.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod2330053a

You got it a bit wrong, your calculation does not take into account the very fact you even stated that Explode! happens 50% of the time, the numbers are as if EVERY penetration gets it.

Its actually:
(1/36)+(35/36)*(1/2)+(35/36)*(1/2)*(3)=1.97222222222 hull points per hit.
And as you need 3 shots for 1 hit to pass by the BS roll and the holo field it means that a shot removes 0.6574074074 HP on average.
And that means you need 13.6901408452 shots to get 9 hull points. even WORSE then I thought.

Bha, doing calculations in my head got my rounding up too much and getting optimistic, actual calculations shows just how much it takes.
Still within the realm of possibility, just hard possibility.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
It's all in Escalation. It's a supplement as well; it's only allowed if you agree to it. So if you see your opponent plopping a bane blade on the table, kindly remind him that he needs your consent first. Then blow it up with lascannons and multimeltas

Wait, dose that mean anyone who uses Farsight Enclave or Iyanden need permission?

 Nilok wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
It's all in Escalation. It's a supplement as well; it's only allowed if you agree to it. So if you see your opponent plopping a bane blade on the table, kindly remind him that he needs your consent first. Then blow it up with lascannons and multimeltas

Wait, dose that mean anyone who uses Farsight Enclave or Iyanden need permission?

Those are more like codices. Escalation is closure to Planetstrike or Cities of Death. Besides, Escalation is part of the normal game, then there would be no need to distinguish it from a normal under "Carry on As Normal"
Also, I'm pretty sure it says that things like Farsight Enclave and Iyanden can be used as a normal force. Escalation doesn't have that clause.

That should really be in the FAQ...so many people are going about that you have to play Escalation.

Regarding Revenant, you can't ignore its mobility. You might get one attempt with your flyer, but not second. In the meantime Revenant has killed 2-4 units already and will continue doing so when you are still trying to turn your flyer.

Edit: reading comprehension fail Though im sure its GWs plan to make people buy more kits

I wonder how well outflanking mm assault bikes will do. as well What your guys plans are against the flying tau 1.

(god i hope they allow the heavy rail version as a LoW. then id probably will pick up escalation and restart my tau army)

There's always the multi-part attack. Get that airborne support and drop pod some melta dudes in. Keep in mind that you can better position your dudes dudes with specific powers or Wargear.

 BoomWolf wrote:
You got it a bit wrong, your calculation does not take into account the very fact you even stated that Explode! happens 50% of the time, the numbers are as if EVERY penetration gets it.

Its actually:
(1/36)+(35/36)*(1/2)+(35/36)*(1/2)*(3)=1.97222222222 hull points per hit.
And as you need 3 shots for 1 hit to pass by the BS roll and the holo field it means that a shot removes 0.6574074074 HP on average.
And that means you need 13.6901408452 shots to get 9 hull points. even WORSE then I thought.

Bha, doing calculations in my head got my rounding up too much and getting optimistic, actual calculations shows just how much it takes.
Still within the realm of possibility, just hard possibility.

Ah, yes, I see you're right. I'm getting the same numbers as you now that I remembered to divide the explode results by half. Thanks for the correction.

And suddenly, haywire becomes godlike.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Those are more like codices. Escalation is closure to Planetstrike or Cities of Death. Besides, Escalation is part of the normal game, then there would be no need to distinguish it from a normal under "Carry on As Normal"

That should really be in the FAQ...so many people are going about that you have to play Escalation.

There isn't any language in the Escalation book that would point to it being anything other than a new addition to the core rules, at least none that I've found, same with Stronghold Assault. Honestly I hope it's the case, D weapons aside I think both books add some much needed variety into the game and I'd hate for them to go the way of CoD and Planetstrike as those things people vaguely remember existing but no one adtually bothered to shell out for because they knew that after a few games of it everyone would go back to "testing their tournament army" in every single game.

Yeah, Necron Voltaic Staffs had been mentioned earlier. Getting actual haywire grenades into close combat with one of these things is going to be almost impossible, but the Stormteks stand a good chance of stripping some hull points. It pairs well with Gauss, too, so that's nice.

@ Desubot
I hear Forgeworld is about to release a PDF update for their Super-Heavies, so we probably will get the AX-1-0

@CthuluSpy
I'm looking through the book and all it dose is say that the original rule have been amended by the supplement.

Also, I can't find "Carry on As Normal" anywhere in the book. Can I have a page number please?

 Nilok wrote:
@ Desubot
I hear Forgeworld is about to release a PDF update for their Super-Heavies, so we probably will get the AX-1-0

@CthuluSpy
I'm looking through the book and all it dose is say that the original rule have been amended by the supplement.

Also, I can't find "Carry on As Normal" anywhere in the book. Can I have a page number please?

If I'm reading it right, pg125.

Where does it say that the original rules have been amended by the supplement?

 Nilok wrote:
@ Desubot
I hear Forgeworld is about to release a PDF update for their Super-Heavies, so we probably will get the AX-1-0

Im aware and that's what i hoping

But still thinking about it even the regular tiger shark is essentially a 6 hp 12/10/10 flying battle cannon. (though 14 drones popping out sounds funny) seems like most lists that have to deal with cron air can handle this guy.
1-0 is what i really hope for so at least i can get away with a D nice shot or a 7" pizza plate before it gets removed from the sky.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Nilok wrote:
@ Desubot
I hear Forgeworld is about to release a PDF update for their Super-Heavies, so we probably will get the AX-1-0

@CthuluSpy
I'm looking through the book and all it dose is say that the original rule have been amended by the supplement.

Also, I can't find "Carry on As Normal" anywhere in the book. Can I have a page number please?

If I'm reading it right, pg125.

Where does it say that the original rules have been amended by the supplement?

Under Introduction:

An amended force organisation chart that allows players to choose Lords of War units as part of their standard Warhammer 40,000 armies.

I found the "Carry on as Normal" rule and I think you are miss interpreting it.

These changes aside, all of the rules from the Fighting A Battle section in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook are used as for a normal game.

This is specifically in the "Alter of War" section explaining how the new missions work.

 Nilok wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Nilok wrote:
@ Desubot
I hear Forgeworld is about to release a PDF update for their Super-Heavies, so we probably will get the AX-1-0

@CthuluSpy
I'm looking through the book and all it dose is say that the original rule have been amended by the supplement.

Also, I can't find "Carry on As Normal" anywhere in the book. Can I have a page number please?

If I'm reading it right, pg125.

Where does it say that the original rules have been amended by the supplement?

Under Introduction:

An amended force organisation chart that allows players to choose Lords of War units as part of their standard Warhammer 40,000 armies.

I found the "Carry on as Normal" rule and I think you are miss interpreting it.

These changes aside, all of the rules from the Fighting A Battle section in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook are used as for a normal game.

This is specifically in the "Alter of War" section explaining how the new missions work.

What's Altar of War? I never heard of it.

@CthululsSpy
It's the section of the Escalation book titled "Altar of War: Escalation" explaining the new Eternal War missions added from from this supplement.

Doesn't that follow the same idea as Planetstrike and Cities of Death? That too had amended and altered FOCs.

No, sadly it doesn't. Unlike Planetstrike and Cities of Death which are Expansions, Escalation and Stronghold Assault are Supplements.

The "Carry on as Normal" explains that it follows all the normal rules for 40k, as well as the ones listed in the book.

Think of Expansions like a 32X for a Genesis (or Megadrive). You don't need it to play your normal Genesis games, and usually just gets in the way.

A Supplement alters the way the core rules or codices work. Think of it as a major patch for a game that you can't revert and adds a new class. Only the people who buy into the content can use it, but you still have to deal with it even if you don't.

2x210 wrote:
So as a Chaos Player, what are my options dealing with super heavies so far I've come up with...

1. Bring a case that's easy to open and close since I'll be packing up after turn 2.

2. Learn Chinese so I can curse in a new language after I'm wiped on turn 2.

3. Switch Armies

Play Black Legion and bring The Eye of Night. Rejoice in the knowledge you have a chance to win the game in round 1.

 Nilok wrote:
No, sadly it doesn't. Unlike Planetstrike and Cities of Death which are Expansions, Escalation and Stronghold Assault are Supplements.

The "Carry on as Normal" explains that it follows all the normal rules for 40k, as well as the ones listed in the book.

Think of Expansions like a 32X for a Genesis (or Megadrive). You don't need it to play your normal Genesis games, and usually just gets in the way.

A Supplement alters the way the core rules or codices work. Think of it as a major patch for a game that you can't revert and adds a new class. Only the people who buy into the content can use it, but you still have to deal with it even if you don't.

Well, that's annoying. Good thing I have a C'tan

Of course, literally all that has to happen is for GW to call Escalation an "expansion" for all this fear and arguing to go away...

But considering their history of poor english (despite being a British company) I really don't put much weight in what they choose to call their releases (supplements, expansions, whatever). And if everyone is really going to complain about how GW ruined the tournament scene/game as they fork over money to buy new $200 models to stay competitive, then I'd offer that they are doing it wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But back to tactics:
I think that having your warlord attached to your melta/mass dakka suicide-kill squad would be important, due to the bonuses given. And, since most super-heavies have 9 hp you'll be making a 3 to 1 victory point trade if that squad dies.

I too thought of the grav guns vs. gargantuan creatures, haven't seen anything that says they don't work as advertised.

So to sum up: If you don't play necrons, or use a super heavy of your own, take deep striking meltas.

I do not think the other superheavies besides the Revenant are over the top. Unfortunately it is quite easy to squeeze that into e.g. 1750/1850 pts Eldar lists with Tau allies for AA.

It is definitely a many times scarier than a few Warp Spiders and Dark Reapers.

What I find fun is taking out titans with Fire warriors. In close combat!

FW XV-09 with Fusion Cascade this should give you 2D3 Melta shots PER suit. Expensive but should get the job done.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
What I find fun is taking out titans with Fire warriors. In close combat!

A friend of mine plays a very mobile Tau army, and all of his fire warriors are euipped with EMP grenades. They easily make their points back, since not many people think about firewarriors being able to kill a land raider in CC.