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Sanguinius, Primarch of the Blood Angels
WS:8/ BS:7/ S:6/ T:6/ W:6/ I:8/ A:5/ LD:10/ SV: 2+/ 4++ Points: 480
Unit Type: FMC (for purposes of movement options, and when flying), IC (grounded/ normal)
Special Rules: Primarch, Sire of the Blood Angels, Ultimate Counterstrike, Magnificent Visage, The Angel's Might
Wargear: The Angel's Visage, Spear of Telesto, The Blades Encarmine, Frag & Krak Grenades
Special Rules
-Ultimate Counterstrike: Sanguinius is far faster than any warrior can hope to have a chance of reacting to. He sees bolter rounds as moving a mere few feet per second. Whenever an enemy engaged in melee with Sanguinius makes an attack that fails to hit, Sanguinius makes a free (does not use an attack) auto hit (on a 3+) against the enemy who made the attack.
-Sire of the Blood Angels: Sanguinius may grant any 2 squads of Blood Angels perfect deepstriking (these units do not scatter when deepstriking). Sanguinius also has the Acute Senses, and Night Vision special rules.
-Magnificent Visage: Blood Angels become better warriors simply from watching what movements they can perceive Sanguinius making. Sanguinius grants an additional point of WS to BA units within 12 inches.
-The Angel's Might: With Sanguinius as your warlord you may opt to have any 2 warlord traits from the Horus Heresy series (Betrayal and Massacre)
Wargear
=The Blades Encarmine: S:+1, AP:2, +1 attack, +1 initiative, Rending, Murderous Strike, Fleshbane.
=Spear of Telesto: S:+2, AP:2, Melee, Two Handed. Can be used a ranged weapon with the following profile: S:9, AP:2, Rending, Assault, 36 inch range.
=The Angel's Visage: Grants Sanguinius a 2+ armor save and a 4++ invulnerable save.
Well?

Oooph...this is gonna take some work.

Ultimate Counterstrike just...has to go. Otherwise, make it like cleaving counterblow if you insist on keeping it.

Magnificant Visage should be changed to the Zealot USR.
Just give him a set Warlord Trait.

Blades encarmine should be AP3, like all power swords
+1 attack is fine, but remove fleshbane off them.

Spear of Telesto, reduce it to strength 7, AP 2, remove the random rending, and make it 24 inches.

Saves are fine.
That should be a start.

I'd even nerf the spear's range down to like, 18". Honestly, I think 12" is more appropriate, but 18" doesn't seem too ridiculous.

If you nerfed it to 12" I'd change it a bit to so that it's like Vulkans line attack, where it hits everything in that line, but then I'd also make throwing it a one time use option

 cincydooley wrote:
I'd even nerf the spear's range down to like, 18". Honestly, I think 12" is more appropriate, but 18" doesn't seem too ridiculous.

If you nerfed it to 12" I'd change it a bit to so that it's like Vulkans line attack, where it hits everything in that line, but then I'd also make throwing it a one time use option

In fluff the spear fires an energy beam, I'd agree about the hit everything in a 12-18 inch line. So no throwing it at least.

 iGuy91 wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
I'd even nerf the spear's range down to like, 18". Honestly, I think 12" is more appropriate, but 18" doesn't seem too ridiculous.

If you nerfed it to 12" I'd change it a bit to so that it's like Vulkans line attack, where it hits everything in that line, but then I'd also make throwing it a one time use option

In fluff the spear fires an energy beam, I'd agree about the hit everything in a 12-18 inch line. So no throwing it at least.

Ohhhh right. I forgot it did that energy weapon thing.

I feel like Sanguinus should also have some sort of + to his hammer of wrath rules. Do FMCs get any boost to them? I can't say I've ever played with a FMC.

Um...what?
This was posted like a week ago, and now it has some replies?
Regardless the Blades Encarmine are a set of two swords Sangunius uses in half his appearances (he uses the spear of telesto in his other half). They are a primarch's weapon, which means they pretty much have to be AP:2 like all the other weapons.
Sangunius has a lascannon with reduced range as his ranged weapon....this is op how? He's a damn primarch!!! Let him have his one lascannon shot per turn.

I think the blades are fine. Personally I wouldn't add the +1 to I.

I'd change the counter strike rule to one that looks more like Gabriel Seth's, in that he only gets the attack back on a roll of 1 and still has to roll to hit.

Magnificent visage doesn't make a whole lot of sense. No reason to have it.

I still think the spear should have the line of effect shooting rule. I still think your range is way too far. And the STR is too high. I'd model it after Vulkans, or keep the STR where it is, give it thee lance rule, and make it a one time use.

He Has too many special rules. All the other Primarchs have their sire rule and another one or two. Not the huge amount you have here.

I would actually prefer seeing him have a 3++ since he is a primarch, and bump the cost up to 500 flat.

 raiden wrote:
I would actually prefer seeing him have a 3++ since he is a primarch, and bump the cost up to 500 flat.

Not all of them have a 3++.

Vulkan has a 3++ due to his Drakescale Cloak.
Ferrus has a 3++ due to his armours technical superiority.
Horus has a 3++ because his armour was designed by Kelbor Hal.
Fulgrim ONLY gets a 3++ in CC because of his swordsmanship, he otherwise has a 5++

Mortarion, Kurze, Angron, and Lorgar all have 4++.

So what I'm saying is that he isn't entitled to a 3++ simply because he's a Primarch. He's already going to be the only one that can fly.....

I also disagree with other primachs not being 3++ but sang is supposed to be one of the strongest (if not the strongest ) primarch fluff wise (no I am not counting Horus + 4 chaos gods)
That being said the he isn't going to be an IC. Or he won't be attached to squads if he can fly. sanguinor has a 3++ so why shouldn't sanguinius ?

 raiden wrote:
I also disagree with other primachs not being 3++ but sang is supposed to be one of the strongest (if not the strongest ) primarch fluff wise (no I am not counting Horus + 4 chaos gods)
That being said the he isn't going to be an IC. Or he won't be attached to squads if he can fly. sanguinor has a 3++ so why shouldn't sanguinius ?

So was Mortarion and/or Angron...

Most of them are somewhere listed as "the strongest/toughest" primarch...

I never said he was the toughest. but iirc in many books (note not just the couple BA there are) said sangy was one the strongest melee primarchs. With bladslesman skills rivaling or beat long fulgrim. That said I know a lot more about loyalist primarchs than I do traitors :p.

 raiden wrote:
I never said he was the toughest. but iirc in many books (note not just the couple BA there are) said sangy was one the strongest melee primarchs. With bladslesman skills rivaling or beat long fulgrim. That said I know a lot more about loyalist primarchs than I do traitors :p.

Maybe he's just the best loyalist - he did knock a chink into Horus' armour, where whole planets had failed.

And then Teh Spehss Emprah had an awesome dance off with Horus, with the Slaaneshi-warped mind of Horus playing Dubstep, and Empy playing some form of Metal.

It's obvious by that description who won.

 ThePrimordial wrote:
Sanguinius, Primarch of the Blood Angels
WS:8/ BS:7/ S:6/ T:6/ W:6/ I:8/ A:5/ LD:10/ SV: 2+/ 4++ Points: 480
Unit Type: FMC (for purposes of movement options, and when flying), IC (grounded/ normal)
Special Rules: Primarch, Sire of the Blood Angels, Ultimate Counterstrike, Magnificent Visage, The Angel's Might
Wargear: The Angel's Visage, Spear of Telesto, The Blades Encarmine, Frag & Krak Grenades
Special Rules
-Ultimate Counterstrike: Sanguinius is far faster than any warrior can hope to have a chance of reacting to. He sees bolter rounds as moving a mere few feet per second. Whenever an enemy engaged in melee with Sanguinius makes an attack that fails to hit, Sanguinius makes a free (does not use an attack) auto hit (on a 3+) against the enemy who made the attack.
-Sire of the Blood Angels: Sanguinius may grant any 2 squads of Blood Angels perfect deepstriking (these units do not scatter when deepstriking). Sanguinius also has the Acute Senses, and Night Vision special rules.
-Magnificent Visage: Blood Angels become better warriors simply from watching what movements they can perceive Sanguinius making. Sanguinius grants an additional point of WS to BA units within 12 inches.
-The Angel's Might: With Sanguinius as your warlord you may opt to have any 2 warlord traits from the Horus Heresy series (Betrayal and Massacre)
Wargear
=The Blades Encarmine: S:+1, AP:2, +1 attack, +1 initiative, Rending, Murderous Strike, Fleshbane.
=Spear of Telesto: S:+2, AP:2, Melee, Two Handed. Can be used a ranged weapon with the following profile: S:9, AP:2, Rending, Assault, 36 inch range.
=The Angel's Visage: Grants Sanguinius a 2+ armor save and a 4++ invulnerable save.
Well?

good! Very good I could see forge world coming out with something like this.