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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 05:26:36
Subject: Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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If I had to guess it would be because the Imperium has bigger problems than the Wolves.
"The Space Wolves? The chapter that still fights our enemies and is tough as nails? Yeah, we'll go exterminate them. Right after the Tyranids, Necrons, Orks, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Rak'gol, Tau, Heretics, countless rebellions, Chaos Daemons, Hrud and whatever other horror we stumble upon".
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Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
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1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 05:44:21
Subject: Re:Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Fixture of Dakka
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I find it interesting the there is the idea that The Ecclesiarchy can send an army unopposed to Fenris, That solar system is controlled by the wolves and they have total authority, even inquisitors ask an audience with the chapter masters before doing their dealings, other chapters maybe more willing but these are the wolves!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 06:19:49
Subject: Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
Inside Yvraine
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Space Wolves are still around because of plot armor.
HOWEVER, RE: exterminatus, I've gotten the impression from the fluff that you can not perform exterminatus on a planet that has anti-air capabilities, because the platforms that exterminatus weapons are mounted on (missiles, for the huge majority of them) are too easy to shoot down.
It's mentioned in the Night Lords trilogy specifically, when Talos orders the ship to fire cyclonic torpedos and at a fleeing Aurora Marines' ship and the captain remarks that their point-defense system will shoot it down.
I imagine that exterminatus weapons can only be used against defenseless planets or planets where its forces have been mostly beaten into submission.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 06:27:35
Subject: Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc
The darkness between the stars
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BlaxicanX wrote:Space Wolves are still around because of plot armor.
HOWEVER, RE: exterminatus, I've gotten the impression from the fluff that you can not perform exterminatus on a planet that has anti-air capabilities, because the platforms that exterminatus weapons are mounted on (missiles, for the huge majority of them) are too easy to shoot down.
It's mentioned in the Night Lords trilogy specifically, when Talos orders the ship to fire cyclonic torpedos and at a fleeing Aurora Marines' ship and the captain remarks that their point-defense system will shoot it down.
I imagine that exterminatus weapons can only be used against defenseless planets or planets where its forces have been mostly beaten into submission.
Actually this brings a curious question. As it seems, the planet is really just a single fortress and then a barbarian planet. Wouldn't it be very possible to just deploy on the other side of the planet and nuke the planet off the face of the earth?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 06:38:18
Subject: Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Stealthy Space Wolves Scout
Louisville, Ky
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StarTrotter wrote: BlaxicanX wrote:Space Wolves are still around because of plot armor.
HOWEVER, RE: exterminatus, I've gotten the impression from the fluff that you can not perform exterminatus on a planet that has anti-air capabilities, because the platforms that exterminatus weapons are mounted on (missiles, for the huge majority of them) are too easy to shoot down.
It's mentioned in the Night Lords trilogy specifically, when Talos orders the ship to fire cyclonic torpedos and at a fleeing Aurora Marines' ship and the captain remarks that their point-defense system will shoot it down.
I imagine that exterminatus weapons can only be used against defenseless planets or planets where its forces have been mostly beaten into submission.
Actually this brings a curious question. As it seems, the planet is really just a single fortress and then a barbarian planet. Wouldn't it be very possible to just deploy on the other side of the planet and nuke the planet off the face of the earth?
you gotta be able to survive the planet, and avoid the scanners and detection I am sure the Fang is equipped with. It is in low Atmo and a space dock, I am sure they could scan for incoming flying boxes.
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1000-6500 SW W/L/D 6/1/3
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Ave Imperator |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 07:18:58
Subject: Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Trustworthy Shas'vre
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Again, the example of the Rock, which is probably not significantly stronger nor significant;y weaker than the Fang surviving the destruction of the entire planet.
Destroying Fenris may eventually doom the chapter due to its rather unique requirements for its new initiates, but it won't kill it immediately. Instead you will have some of the meanest and baddest hombres in the Imperium pissed off at you and with little left to lose.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/10 07:19:19
Tau and Space Wolves since 5th Edition. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 08:34:27
Subject: Re:Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant
Czech Republic
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Not many politics here, are they?
SW are still fighting Chaos and Co. Transgressions can be grave but in whole scale of war (Grimdark TM) its just small price to pay for chapter in double strenght of "standard" chapter and with good results. So, tap them on paw, say "no-no" and send them on another enemy. When commisar shoots half platoon, its keeping morale in matters of tactics. When should Imperium slaughter whole chapter of engineered unhuman brutes, its already matter of strategy and common sense. And, of course, even Imperium is riddled with different political power structures and different individuals have individual goals.
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Being optimistic´s worthless if it means ignoring the suffering of this world. Worse than worthless. It´s bloody evil.
- Fiddler |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 10:37:00
Subject: Re:Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Preacher of the Emperor
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j31c3n wrote:And given that the Space Wolves explicitly held them off until they simply gave up, it's safe to say it was not a serious attempt to destroy the chapter.
Of course it was a serious attempt, if not to destroy them then to carry out some harsh judgement on them. Three whole Orders is a lot of resources for the Ecclesiarchy to commit. They wouldn't have done that if they weren't serious about it.
j31c3n wrote:The Space Marines are the defenders of the Imperium. There is less than one Space Marine for each world in the Emperor's territory, yet it is enough. The destruction of a Space Marine chapter is a HUGE deal. HUGE.
I think you're overstating the importance of the Marines just a bit. Yes they're a valued resource, but do you think that there would be hesitation in getting rid of a Chapter if it turned traitor?
j31c3n wrote:The amount of resources needed to replace roughly 1,000 Space Marines, train them, arm them, get them a fortress monastery and navy and all the other things a chapter needs, would have to be staggering to behold.
As is the creating and training of IG regiments, but the Imperium is fine with expending all of that resource. Case in point, Commander Chenkov was decorated after losing ten million gurdsmen in taking an enemy stronghold. I don't thin that the Imperium is so hesitant to wipe out a single Marine Chapter just due to the reosurces put into it. Especially when said resources might be turned against the Imperium.
j31c3n wrote:The destruction of a little-known chapter with few official records documenting their existence might be able to be hidden from the High Lords
But we have no evidence that the High Lords need to directly approve the destruction of a Chapter (that I am aware of). Again, you neglect that the destruction of a Chapter may need to happen at a moment's notice. If aChapter decides that this Chaos thing sounds like a smashing idea and heads off towards the Eye of Terror after slaughtering some loyal Guardsmen, do you think that an Inquisitor who witnesses this is going to wait to transmit the events direct to the High Lords and await a decision before trying to wipe that Chapter out?
Additionally, the newest SoB codex mentions the Sisters wiping out entire Space Marine Chapters for heresy, making it sound like a normal duty of theirs, and not anything particularly secret or weighty. Chapter is declared heretical, the Sisters move in and purge them.
j31c3n wrote:but the Ecclesiarchy or Inquisition going rogue and exterminating the Space Wolves, a founding legion... there would be serious consequences from the High Lords of Terra.
Okay, so the Ecclesiarchy made a major attack on the Space Wolves, yet didn't seem to receive any punishment for it whatsoever. If the Wolves are as loved by the High Lords as you think, then where are the "serious consequences" for a direct attack upon the Wolves?
Again, note that the Ecclesiarchy seemed to be act alone here, and didn't seem to suffer any sanctions from doing so. I think that this demonstrates that Marines may be a little less invaluable to the Imperium as a whole than you are making out.
None of whom decided to help out while the SoB were battling the Wolves in their home system, apparently.
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Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 16:42:58
Subject: Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Lieutenant Colonel
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Void__Dragon wrote:It doesn't really matter who fired first when the side that fired first has far more power than the other.
Logically, there is no reason the Inquisition could not wipe out a mere two thousand Marines.
there most certainly is a few reasons....
namely the wolves are the go to astartes meant for taking out other astartes...
not a single chapter outside of the minotaurs would even take the job, and even they might not, and even if they did, they wouldnt succeed.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 17:18:33
Subject: Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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The SW *were* the go-to for that task... 10,000 years ago. In the current era? They send the Sisters.
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 17:26:13
Subject: Re:Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
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Da krimson barun wrote:Almost 12 thousand space marines are not going to be easy to fight.Also they kill more enemy then friends and the imperium needs all the spess muhrines they can get.
The number of Space Wolves seems to increase at a rate directly proportional to the enthusiasm of the poster.
There are maybe 1200-2000 Space Wolves. Not 12,000. There were barely 10,000 of them left at the end of the Heresy, and half that total went with the ill-fated Wolf Brothers and died out.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 18:03:44
Subject: Re:Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
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Troike wrote:I think you're overstating the importance of the Marines just a bit. Yes they're a valued resource, but do you think that there would be hesitation in getting rid of a Chapter if it turned traitor?
Well, the marines are massively important to the IoM. Not only for their military potential, but also for their religious significance.
The Space Marines are descended from the Emperor himself. The 'Emperor's angels of death' are worshipped as by most of the Imperium's population.
Of course, there would be no hesistation in destroying a chapter if it turns traitor, but destroying a chapter still is a very big thing.
Because they are so significant, and the first founding chapters even more so, they are granted a great deal of independence. As long as they remain loyal to the Imperium, they can usually do and believe whatever they want.
A few minor chapters may have been destroyed for crossing a 'line' and pissing off the wrong people, but the oldest, most powerful and influential chapters do not have to worry about such things. Even if they do come under attack form other Imperial factions, as is the case with the SW, they are usually strong enough to stave off any assault. Destroying the SW would require massive resources that are difficult to muster given that the Imperium is so factious.
Also, whimpering about plot armour is stupid.
Without plot armour there would be no fiction.
All 40k factions are equipped with massive plot armour.
If that were not the case, the universe would have already been eaten by Tyranids/Chaos
This thread makes as much sense as a thread titled: 'Why is the IoM allowed to live?'
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Error 404: Interesting signature not found
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 18:11:55
Subject: Re:Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon
octarius.Lets krump da bugs!
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Veteran Sergeant wrote:Da krimson barun wrote:Almost 12 thousand space marines are not going to be easy to fight.Also they kill more enemy then friends and the imperium needs all the spess muhrines they can get.
The number of Space Wolves seems to increase at a rate directly proportional to the enthusiasm of the poster.
There are maybe 1200-2000 Space Wolves. Not 12,000. There were barely 10,000 of them left at the end of the Heresy, and half that total went with the ill-fated Wolf Brothers and died out.
But I thought they had 12 great company's(not counting the 13th)with 1000 each?Have they taken that many casualties?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 18:16:44
Subject: Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Lieutenant Colonel
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Psienesis wrote:The SW *were* the go-to for that task... 10,000 years ago. In the current era? They send the Sisters.
LOL... sisters dont do so well against astartes... GK walked right though them in those books, I doubt that SW's would have much trouble destryoing SOB...
even if they are not the official "astartes" killer anymore.. they still have the #'s training, niche skills ect to do the job better then anyone else. SOB and minotaurs included.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 18:28:33
Subject: Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Furyou Miko wrote:Uh, Grey Knights aren't used for paltry tasks like purging Space Marine chapters, they've got far more important things to be doing.
Iron_Captain wrote:And destroying other chapters is not their job. The GK work for the Ordo Malleus to combat demons. They do not have any other duties. Destroying Astartes is the what the SW were meant to do, and which they are very effective at. Apart from the SW, the duty of destroying renegade Astartes often falls to other chapters with close ties to the High Lords or the Inquisition.
This is a popular, albeit very incorrect myth. The Grey Knights are indeed used for destroying chapters and when they haven't got a useless, naive cusswit for an Inquisitor holding them back from attacking they're extremely efficient at it. Normally their chapter takes on this role when another chapter has been declared Excommunicate Traitoris through accusations of a tampering with daemonic influences or other supernatural phenomenon - see the fates of both the Flame Falcons and the Relictors.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/10 19:29:48
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 18:29:46
Subject: Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
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easysauce wrote: Psienesis wrote:The SW *were* the go-to for that task... 10,000 years ago. In the current era? They send the Sisters.
LOL... sisters dont do so well against astartes... GK walked right though them in those books, I doubt that SW's would have much trouble destryoing SOB...
even if they are not the official "astartes" killer anymore.. they still have the #'s training, niche skills ect to do the job better then anyone else. SOB and minotaurs included.
True, the Sisters are only rarely called to destroy a chapter. That task usually falls to whatever other Astartes chapters happen to be nearby or chapters with close ties to the High Lords or Inquisition.
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Error 404: Interesting signature not found
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 18:30:46
Subject: Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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easysauce wrote: Psienesis wrote:The SW *were* the go-to for that task... 10,000 years ago. In the current era? They send the Sisters.
LOL... sisters dont do so well against astartes... GK walked right though them in those books, I doubt that SW's would have much trouble destryoing SOB...
even if they are not the official "astartes" killer anymore.. they still have the #'s training, niche skills ect to do the job better then anyone else. SOB and minotaurs included.
The Sisters weren't fighting the GK. They willingly sacrificed themselves. Not sure why you would think that went any other way.
For two.. the Sisters do very well against Space Marines. Better than any other Imperial faction and, unlike the Space Marines, their purity is unquestionable.
For three... in every Codex the Sisters of Battle have ever appeared in since the faction's inception, we are told that one of their primary functions is the eradication of Space Marine Chapters declared heretical.
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 18:32:26
Subject: Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Greyish wrote: Furyou Miko wrote:Uh, Grey Knights aren't used for paltry tasks like purging Space Marine chapters, they've got far more important things to be doing.
Iron_Captain wrote:And destroying other chapters is not their job. The GK work for the Ordo Malleus to combat demons. They do not have any other duties. Destroying Astartes is the what the SW were meant to do, and which they are very effective at. Apart from the SW, the duty of destroying renegade Astartes often falls to other chapters with close ties to the High Lords or the Inquisition.
This is a popular, albeit very incorrect myth. The Grey Knights are indeed used for destroying chapters and when they haven't got a useless, naive cusswit for an Inquisitor is holding them back from attacking they're extremely efficient at it. Normally their chapter takes on this role when another chapter has been declared Excommunicate Traitoris through accusations of a tampering with daemonic influences or other supernatural phenomenon - see the fates of both the Flame Falcons and the Relictors.
This is true. It doesn't really apply to the Space Wolves, though, since the chapter doesn't do much that could be thought of as corrupted by Chaos (with the possible exception of the wulfen. I dunno if the Imperium knows the Wulfen curse is actually an ANTI-Chaos measure)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 18:55:55
Subject: Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Preacher of the Emperor
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Nah, they do fine agianst them. Good, even. The newest SoB codex mentions them purging entire Space Marine Chapters for heresy. There's also this from an old WD article discussing renegade Marines: Should doctrinal heresy prove the immediate cause then elite of the Adepta Sororitas may be the only force considered capable of prosecuting a War of Faith against the wayward chapter. What books? The Ben Counter one? I heard that the Sisters were holding their own in that. and if you're referring to the Bloodtide, then that was hardly a fair fight. The Sisters in that had been badly worn down by constant Daemon attacks on a now-hostile world. They weren't really in the best shape. And yet, they were unable to destroy the three Orders that attacked them in their home system, merely hold them off. That particular conflict only ended with the Ecclesiarchy deciding that it wasn't worth the effort. easysauce wrote:even if they are not the official "astartes" killer anymore.. they still have the #'s training, niche skills ect to do the job better then anyone else. SOB and minotaurs included.
But they're not. As far as I'm aware, in the current studio fluff, that isn't their job. Meanwhile, the Sisters get mentioned as purging entire Marine Chapters for heresy in their latest book. And, as Psienesis said, many books before that. And as for the Minotaurs, killing Astartes is their speciality, so I doubt that the Wolves are better at it. Iron_Captain wrote:Of course, there would be no hesistation in destroying a chapter if it turns traitor, but destroying a chapter still is a very big thing.
Yeah, of course it'd be a big deal. But the point I was making is that the appropriate organisations would need to be allowed to purge a Marine Chapter that went bad at a moment's notice. The idea that they could only do so with the permission of the High Lords doesn't really work.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/10 19:01:41
Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 18:56:28
Subject: Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc
The darkness between the stars
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(wait is it really? I presumed i t was a chaos thing that just happened to cancel out other chaos things)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 19:13:50
Subject: Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
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Psienesis wrote:The SW *were* the go-to for that task... 10,000 years ago. In the current era? They send the Sisters.
No they don't.
The Sisters have, from time to time, taken it upon themselves to attack Space Marines (sometimes works, sometimes doesn't). But the idea of the Sisters as Galactic Internal Affairs didn't survive the transition from Rogue Trader, and it's been pretty consistent in the fluff that the Inquisition is charged with dealing with rogue Space Marine chapters. But the forces the Inquisition use vary. The Flame Falcons and Relictors, for example, were cleansed by the Grey Knights. The Imperial Fists took care of the Venom Thorns.
The Sisters will occasionally send themselves, and often get thumped for their trouble (see: The Space Wolves). But when the Imperium wants to kill Space Marines, it sends other Space Marines. Automatically Appended Next Post: Troike wrote:
Yeah, of course it'd be a big deal. But the point I was making is that the appropriate organisations would need to be allowed to purge a Marine Chapter that went bad at a moment's notice. The idea that they could only do so with the permission of the High Lords doesn't really work.
You seem to think the Imperium functions efficiently. This is a grave mistake, lol.
The reason why renegade and traitor warbands even continue to exist is primarily because the Imperium is too big, spread out, and inefficient to react in a timely manner. If there was some kind of well-oiled machine at work, the might of the Imperium is vast, and would crush traitor and renegade warbands not hiding in the Eye of Terror with ease.
But it isn't. Automatically Appended Next Post: Da krimson barun wrote: Veteran Sergeant wrote:Da krimson barun wrote:Almost 12 thousand space marines are not going to be easy to fight.Also they kill more enemy then friends and the imperium needs all the spess muhrines they can get.
The number of Space Wolves seems to increase at a rate directly proportional to the enthusiasm of the poster.
There are maybe 1200-2000 Space Wolves. Not 12,000. There were barely 10,000 of them left at the end of the Heresy, and half that total went with the ill-fated Wolf Brothers and died out.
But I thought they had 12 great company's(not counting the 13th)with 1000 each?Have they taken that many casualties?
12x~100. Not 1000.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/10 19:17:29
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 19:22:36
Subject: Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Preacher of the Emperor
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Not efficiently, ruthlessly. Stamping out dissent as soon as it arises. This would be especially true for the Inquisition, of all organisations. Veteran Sergeant wrote:The reason why renegade and traitor warbands even continue to exist is primarily because the Imperium is too big, spread out, and inefficient to react in a timely manner.
What I'm saying is that, assuming that another organisation is present when a Marine Chapter goes rogue or comes across one, they're allowed to wipe them out, without having to ask permission. Automatically Appended Next Post: It's their job, they don't just "take it upon themselves". Veteran Sergeant wrote:But the idea of the Sisters as Galactic Internal Affairs didn't survive the transition from Rogue Trader
Nah, they still have plenty about that. They police the Ecclesiarchy, for one. And look at that WD quote I posted, they're the go to choice for when Marine Chapters suffer from doctrinal heresy. There's also this from their 6E codex: Heretics take many forms. Most are lost humans, whose weak minds have been corrupted by the manifold temptations of a dark and sinister galaxy. None are immune – planetary governors, Imperial Guard commanders and even whole Space Marine Chapters have been declared heretic, and been exterminated as such by the Adepta Sororitas. Those multiple Chapters they've purged would probably disagree. They're perfectly capable of taking out Marines. Wasn't a thumping, it was an even fight, it seems. The Marines didn't slaughter the Sisters, and the Sisters didn't slaughter the Marines. The Sisters just withdrew because the Ecclesiarchy decided it wasn't worth the effort.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/10 19:33:21
Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 19:32:56
Subject: Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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The Sisters have, from time to time, taken it upon themselves to attack Space Marines (sometimes works, sometimes doesn't). But the idea of the Sisters as Galactic Internal Affairs didn't survive the transition from Rogue Trader, and it's been pretty consistent in the fluff that the Inquisition is charged with dealing with rogue Space Marine chapters. But the forces the Inquisition use vary. The Flame Falcons and Relictors, for example, were cleansed by the Grey Knights.
In one case we have the Inquisition using their Chamber Militant, and in the other example we have their Inquisition using their Chamber Militant. One's Hereticus, one's Malleus. Still the Inquisition using its tools to wipe out Space Marines.
The reason the GK were called on the Flame Falcons and the Relictors was the suspicion of daemonic involvement (dudes who burst into flames like it ain't no thing appear pretty fething daemonic). The Relictors got the GK treatment because they were using Daemon Weapons. This is the purview of the Ordo Malleus, and their Chamber Militant is the Grey Knights.
The rest of the cases, where a Chapter gets up to shenanigans that are heretical but not daemonic in origin, then it falls to the Ordo Hereticus and their Chamber Militant. Historically, that was the Adepta Sororitas.
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 19:41:44
Subject: Re:Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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If you imagine children playing make-believe in a sand box and understand that the background of all GW games are written by fanboys without real writing credits, it all begins to make sense. Whoever is writing the piece (novel, short-story, codex fluff, and whatever), will give their favorite characters advantages over every adversary or impossible situation. They will bend laws of physics, twist logic and emotion, even defy established cannon to make their story fit. It's all just chest-thumping and trash-talking between boys on the schoolyard.
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Laugh, and the worlds laugh with you. Cry, and someone cuts off your head for the glory of Khorne! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 19:46:50
Subject: Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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I get what you're saying, but it's not exactly the case with the SW, as it's been their portrayal fairly consistently for quite some time now, across multiple authors. So, in a sense, it is kind of the one-upsmanship but centered on one single group, in this case the Space Wolves. It seems that authors using them attempt to out-do the previous author in the stuff they let the SW get away with.
And I say that being rather a fan of the SW as Vikings-In-Space... I just think that their whole Armageddon thing was poorly-conceived and ill-thought. Bjorn should have slapped Logan and told him that, of course, that is how Chaos works, you dolt, that's why you kill them all.
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 19:49:19
Subject: Re:Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller
Strike Cruiser Vladislav Volkov
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If the Soritas had somehow through some crazy amount of plot armor (see what I did there?) been able to totally annihilate the Space Wolves with their three-Order-invasion of Fenrisian space, and no evidence of worshipping "pagan gods" was found (because the Space Wolves simply don't worship "pagan gods"), those orders would probably be purged in retaliation by the order of the Lords of Terra.
If an inquisitor or sister or Grey Knight saw legitimate and real Astartes heresy out on the frontiers of space and smashed it with a hammer, submitted their report with evidence, signed and dated, then that's routine.
Three Orders of Soritas coming into Fenrisian space as a show of force, picking off a few Space Wolves for vengeance purposes, and then bouncing is also pretty routine. Factions of the Imperium come to minor blows like that all the time, even during the Emperor's time.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/10 19:52:35
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 19:57:29
Subject: Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
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Because reasons. They are the faction for adolescents in the throes of puberty, going through their rebellious hipster phase. Also, special snowflakes. Automatically Appended Next Post: TiamatRoar wrote: As powerful as the Imperium is, it NEEDS the power of the wolves, and frankly, despite how evil the Imperium can get on a grander scale, many of its members TRY to be good so at least SOME members of the Imperium realize that the wolves are the nice guys and it's the people firing on the wolves that are friggin' ass holes.
In addition, it'd be a huge blow to morale across the entire Imperium if the wolves were declared traitors. One of the wolves was around when the Emperor still walked the earth, for crying out loud. How would YOU feel if one of the last people alive when your GOD WALKED THE EARTH was declared a traitor?
No one thought the people firing on the Wolves were donkey-caves, and even the Grey Knights who agreed with the Wolves on principle knew that what they were doing on behalf of the inquisition was necessary. Through disobedience, the Wolves caused billions of innocents to die.
And lol, no, the Imperium doesn't need the power of the wolves, 2000 marines is a drop in a very big bucket. They wouldn't even notice. The respect garnered by Bjorn is the only reason Fenris is not a virus-scorched husk.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/10 20:02:46
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 20:10:23
Subject: Re:Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller
Strike Cruiser Vladislav Volkov
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And really, why single out the Space Wolves? Many of the chapters with a major fluff presence would probably be annihilated if the Imperium had the resources to investigate them and then fight them to the last marine.
Short list:
Space Wolves & successors (constantly giving the finger to the imperium, mutation)
Blood Angels & successors(insane khorne-like black rage and blood thirst, mutation)
Dark Angels & successors (weird conspiracy flirting with chaos/unforgiven stuff)
Raven Guard & successors (if evidence of Corax's weird experiments got out? oh man! and mutation)
Salamanders (caring more about worthless human lives than important military objectives, too small)
Blood Ravens (constant grand theft of holy relics, likely descended from the Thousand Sons)
Grey Knights (geneseed tainted by the traitor legions)
Exorcists (undergo daemonic possession as a maturation rite)
And let's not even get into the weirder elements of the Imperium, such as Xanthite inquisitors and the inexplicable use of mutants and xenos (trusted with mankind's holy technology, even!) by some elements of the Imperial Guard and Inquisition itself.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/10 20:12:04
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 20:12:28
Subject: Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
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Out of all of those factions, only the Wolves repeatedly murder Imperial representatives.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/10 20:15:12
Subject: Re:Why are the Space Wolves allowed to live?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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j31c3n wrote:If the Soritas had somehow through some crazy amount of plot armor (see what I did there?) been able to totally annihilate the Space Wolves with their three-Order-invasion of Fenrisian space, and no evidence of worshipping "pagan gods" was found (because the Space Wolves simply don't worship "pagan gods"), those orders would probably be purged in retaliation by the order of the Lords of Terra.
If an inquisitor or sister or Grey Knight saw legitimate and real Astartes heresy out on the frontiers of space and smashed it with a hammer, submitted their report with evidence, signed and dated, then that's routine.
Three Orders of Soritas coming into Fenrisian space as a show of force, picking off a few Space Wolves for vengeance purposes, and then bouncing is also pretty routine. Factions of the Imperium come to minor blows like that all the time, even during the Emperor's time.
They had killed an Inquisitor, who is a representative of the authority of the Emperor, and in so doing denied the authority of the God-Emperor of Mankind. They don't need to be worshipping pagan gods to be heretics.
Space Wolves & successors (constantly giving the finger to the imperium, mutation)
It should also be pointed out, though, that the SW only have one Successor Chapter, and it didn't work out, but that is not the fault of the SW themselves.
Blood Angels & successors(insane khorne-like black rage and blood thirst, mutation)
They are watched by the Inquisition, but the Black Rage being "Khorne-like" is irrelevant to those who know about such things, because "like" is not "is".
Dark Angels & successors (weird conspiracy flirting with chaos/unforgiven stuff)
The Unforgiven stuff is unknown to the Imperium at large, though they have been censured for abandoning allies in the past. Not terminally, obvious, but the Inquisition doesn't purge a whole First Founding Chapter just because they left the dinner table early.
Raven Guard & successors (if evidence of Corax's weird experiments got out? oh man! and mutation)
That information hasn't gotten out yet, so the RG are safe. Welcome to a narrative frozen in time. Cannot prosecute someone for something you don't know they're doing.
Salamanders (caring more about worthless human lives than important military objectives, too small)
The Salamanders have never failed in their objectives while defending human lives.
Blood Ravens (constant grand theft of holy relics, likely descended from the Thousand Sons)
Apart from originating from a 3rd-party company with only a tenuous grasp on 40K fluff, the BR *have* been under observation by the Inquisition, and have been sent on a Penitent Crusade by the =I=, as evidenced in Space Marine.
Grey Knights (geneseed tainted by the traitor legions)
Unproven claim.
Exorcists (undergo daemonic possession as a maturation rite)
Followed by an exorcism, hence the name, the effects of which the Ordo Malleus fairly well understands.
And let's not even get into the weirder elements of the Imperium, such as Xanthite inquisitors and the inexplicable use of mutants and xenos (trusted with mankind's holy technology, even!) by some elements of the Imperial Guard and Inquisition itself.
Radical and Puritan Inquisitors come to blows all the time, and shadow-wars within the Inquisition are a fairly common thing. What is important here, though, is to note that even a Radical Inquisitor is doing what they are doing for the good of the Imperium, rather than for their own glory.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/10 20:24:13
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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