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Today i my sociology research class one of the groups presented about student loans and debt, and how it is affecting students. One of their statements was "You need college degrees to make money" When it came time to talk and ask questions I asked "Is it possible that too many people are lied about needing college to succeed, and we are churning out people with degrees and debt who slide through college gaining no practical skills, especially poorer students who may not have accumulated skills in high school and middle school they need to succeed." A few people got indignant saying I want to keep poor people down(WTF?) and that you must need a degree, or colleges would not exist. Luckily the teacher stepped in to defend me.
But Dakka, this site has taught me alot. So im beggining to wonder, are we fed a lie that college is needed? and too many people go to it? Devaluing degrees in the process?

I think, the answer is yes.

College is not necessary, especially to have a happy and fulfilling life. There are plenty of ways to make it through life without that piece of paper, many which are on the uptrend again. Manual labor is nothing to be shamed, or disrespected, and it can provide just as well as sitting in that cubicle.

Way too many people go. There are plenty of good jobs out there for people without a 4-year college degree, or even a 2-year degree.

There is a ton of value in trades and vocations which are frowned upon, for whatever reason, in the United States. All the countries that the US is constantly compared to in these academic ratings recognize that value and ensure that their students take the right path.

It's a major failing of our education system in the US.

A lot of people go to college who don't need to. A lot of people go to college for degrees that mean nothing other than that you sat at school for 4 years.

Seriously, history is interesting, and I read wikipedia compulsively, but a history degree is a good way to get a job as a waiter.

Instead of sending everyone to college, regardless of ability or intent, we should be focusing more people on trades. You know what jobs can't be off-shored? Plumbers can't be offshored. No kid in China or India is going to unclog your drain for you over the phone. Mechanics - face it, cars aren't going anywhere, and you're not sending your car to Taiwan to be fixed. There are a lot of trades that need workers, and it's a good honest middle class living.

On the other hand, there are way too many people with degrees in english lit, art history and so on. And because there's too many, they don't get jobs that use those degrees. And, college is expensive, and the long-term outlook for spending 100k on a degree that you won't use is pretty poor.

 Redbeard wrote:
.

On the other hand, there are way too many people with degrees in english lit, art history and so on. And because there's too many, they don't get jobs that use those degrees. And, college is expensive, and the long-term outlook for spending 100k on a degree that you won't use is pretty poor.

I'd also add that it's this group that seems least willing to try and find jobs outside of their degree field. Which is just absurd unto itself.

I am 19 years old. I tried telling all my friends they need a passion for what they are going to study etc. I warned them repeatedly about college. Its all good to go but only worth it if you have talent or money or both, but a passion for it is really important. During school and college (here college is different, university is our version of your college) we where told repeatedly to go to university. But the universities are cramped with kids most of whom are badly in debt and didnt know what they wanted todo in the first place.

Now all my friends are poor living at home with parents doing nothing, while i (who started work the hour i left college) am in my own home getting ready for a family.

University/college is a gross exploitation and i hate it. Kids dont know what they wanna do and are sent aimlessly at uni to spend so much money only to end up with a subpar job. I managed to save one of my college friends and now he earns double what i do!

Unless you got passion and talent its not worth going. I might go when im much older and just want to learn but until then im saving my money.

Not Worth it in general.

Community college for 2 years then a Guaranteed admittance to a 4 year school in the same state, (Most if not all community colleges have programs like this)

using NVCC (NOVA) as an example, 64 credit hours for you degree for a guaranteed admittance to any 4 year school in virginia.

in state thats about 6400-7000 dollars for your first two years (its about 100 dollars a credit hour at NVCC), Books cost a F**** load so just down load them off piratebay..

now you just have your remaining 2 years at said 4 years school which will probably cost you around 40-50k?

so about 46,400-57,000 for a 4 year degree
Now you add in things such as Financial or scholarships you can get that cost even lower

Now that for actually going to classes and meeting with professors in person

A cheaper method is to get a 4 year degree online with University of Pheonix or any of the other programs.

Just Remeber to get a Degree in a Field that F***ING matters and you should do all right.

A job that does not require a degree and that pays very well
-Truck driver/Platform worker/ in Oil shale areas, (you can make 80k-100k your first year depending on how long you work, 100k+ the next year) (be prepared to work 80+ hours a week)
- A fast wood worker, working 60 hours a week in oil shale areas will make about 50-60k a year

It is an unrealistic expectation that a college education is required to succeed.

It is even more unrealistic that everyone should get or could get a college degree.

This leads to a lot of students seeking admittance, followed by failure, followed by them finding their calling. Wasted time, effort, and money.

 cincydooley wrote:

There is a ton of value in trades and vocations which are frowned upon, for whatever reason, in the United States. All the countries that the US is constantly compared to in these academic ratings recognize that value and ensure that their students take the right path.

Maybe it is frowned upon because of the lye being told? I mean college is needed for things like engineering, physics and art aswell believe it or not(If you wat to study art, become a cartoonist, they make bank) I personally believe you can make money off your passion no matter what, aslong as you are flexible in what you want, I have seen to many people who think that because they are physic majors they can become the next Carl Sagan. You also need passion, I love sociology, I hang off every word my teacher says and I have a talent for remembering it. Hell, one of the things I learned was how to properly conduct surveys, interviews and research. According to my friend gathering data like that is a god skill set.

Maybe this stems from the "Every kid is special" kind of schooling.

Nope, college isn't for everyone. One, a lot of people just don't have the academic chops to slog through it with better than C's. Two, so many people have at least a bachelor's degree now that McDonalds has considered requiring a BS to be a cashier and several years ago a saw a job listing that required a BS for a janitorial job. Three, blue-collar trades pay fairly well if the guy is good at the job. The US has a problem with looking down on trades as less worthy; our academics tend to be progressives that think they know all the answers to life and should be in charge of telling folks how to live.

We're on the road to having a shortage of electricians, plumbers, and other valuable trade skills. The ones that we'll have can charge what they want, if not already.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:


Maybe this stems from the "Every kid is special" kind of schooling.

No I think its from the "if you get a 4 year degree a lot of doors will open for you"

Now whats missing is the following

A.) Moving through said door is your job and no one elses
B) Get a degree that matters
C) A Masters degree opens up more doors - See A).
D) Get a degree that matters
E) GET A DEGREE THAT MATTERS, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE MAKING MONEY AFTER COLLEGE WITH A GOD DAM BACHELOR'S OF FINE ARTS DEGREE IN MUSICAL THEATRE

 kronk wrote:
We're on the road to having a shortage of electricians, plumpers, and other valuable trade skills. The ones that we'll have can charge what they want, if not already.

If you're smart with the above trade skills you can make a good ammount of money.

 kronk wrote:
We're on the road to having a shortage of electricians, plumpers, and other valuable trade skills. The ones that we'll have can charge what they want, if not already.

This!

I think it's starting to happen...

EDIT: Kronk... what's a "plumpers"?

A few girls I dated... They try harder.

Also, typo.

 kronk wrote:
We're on the road to having a shortage of electricians, plumbers, and other valuable trade skills. The ones that we'll have can charge what they want, if not already.

Im likely to kill myself as an electrician, I eletrocuted myself making toast. But my friend did recommend becoming a systems engineer and working on machinery making 70k a year.

Stop putting your ____ in the toaster young man!

Anything I have to contribute to this is a foot note to what everyone else has said.

College/University is not for "everyone".

I don't want to discourage anyone from going, I wouldn't want to screw over someone's future and potentially society from someone who could make great contributions.

Ultimately it should be up to you. I believe high schools should better prep students for other things other going to college.

Couple of my friends decided to take up a trade after high school and make better money than my friends who have Master degrees. Another friend of my dropped out of a 4 year uni, went to a 2 year school for a medical profession and makes more money than being a teacher.

If it's financial security you are looking for, there are other ways than becoming a indentured servant to student loans.

I had an absolute blast at college, but my degree (which I lost) is next to worthless to me. Now, the promotion I got at work is largely based on having it, but even without a paper saying I was smart, my boss would have no issue realizing I was mentally ahead of many of my coworkers. So I can say the paper got me ahead faster than I would have if I didn't have it. But the final outcome would have been the same. Then again, I'm not in a field you can plan for-it's kind of being in the right place at the right time. My degree is in English Education, my job is as vehicular overseer at a mobile dental company. Yeah...plan for a single job in the most obscure job setup ever. Not gonna happen.

Im close to a bachelors and still not a single piece of debt to speak of.......Whenever I tell anyone that they get mad.

As most in this thread have said, a degree is not required to be successful. Hell, even a diploma isn't needed, but many people often overlook the 2-3 year diplomas you can get for applied professions, like nursing. The amount of money you can make as an electrician or plumber is nothing to smirk at, and the bonus is that the training actually pays you, instead of the other way around.

Now, I say this as someone with a degree, but my degree has zero relevance on my applied trade. I had to get one because the government needed me to have one and paid for it in order to have my job. Sometimes I wonder why, but the value of a degree, regardless of the specialization, shouldn't be understated either.

In short, its not for everyone. I couldn't be an engineer if I wanted to. A buddy mine spent three years becoming a welder with a 3 year Technician certificate. Instead, he tattoos people and makes twice what I do. Go figure.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Im close to a bachelors and still not a single piece of debt to speak of.......Whenever I tell anyone that they get mad.

I'd stop telling people that and focus on your grades. Chicks don't show their boobs to braggarts. They like the shy quiet guy that follows them around campus and stares at them with binoculars and calls 20 times a day and hangs up.

Trust me.

It's bound to work, eventually.

 kronk wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Im close to a bachelors and still not a single piece of debt to speak of.......Whenever I tell anyone that they get mad.

I'd stop telling people that and focus on your grades. Chicks don't show their boobs to braggarts. They like the shy quiet guy that follows them around campus and stares at them with binoculars and calls 20 times a day and hangs up.

Trust me.

It's bound to work, eventually.

I can confirm this.

Its how I met my wife.

Well, she doesn't know we're married yet, but you get the idea.

I just remembered something one of my co-workers is getting a culinary degree, when asked what she was going to do with that, she answered that the military needed her to have a degree for something, just a degree nothing special. just a degree. So she decided culinary was easiest.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kronk wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Im close to a bachelors and still not a single piece of debt to speak of.......Whenever I tell anyone that they get mad.

I'd stop telling people that and focus on your grades. Chicks don't show their boobs to braggarts. They like the shy quiet guy that follows them around campus and stares at them with binoculars and calls 20 times a day and hangs up.

Trust me.

It's bound to work, eventually.

I dont need to focus on grade, I poop out As and Bs while sleeping in class. And I tried that once.......I now need to cordinate my classes with a lawyer

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I just remembered something one of my co-workers is getting a culinary degree, when asked what she was going to do with that, she answered that the military needed her to have a degree for something, just a degree nothing special. just a degree. So she decided culinary was easiest.

Hahaha, welcome to my life!

I have a degree in Military and Strategic Studies, which is a fancy way of saying I took the easiest Politics, Psych, and History classes available, drank for four years, and walked out with a degree I'll never truly apply.

Now, I fly things for the military.

Still don't have my wings yet...soon...

 Swastakowey wrote:
I am 19 years old. I tried telling all my friends they need a passion for what they are going to study etc. I warned them repeatedly about college. Its all good to go but only worth it if you have talent or money or both, but a passion for it is really important. During school and college (here college is different, university is our version of your college) we where told repeatedly to go to university. But the universities are cramped with kids most of whom are badly in debt and didnt know what they wanted todo in the first place.

Now all my friends are poor living at home with parents doing nothing, while i (who started work the hour i left college) am in my own home getting ready for a family.

University/college is a gross exploitation and i hate it. Kids dont know what they wanna do and are sent aimlessly at uni to spend so much money only to end up with a subpar job. I managed to save one of my college friends and now he earns double what i do!

Unless you got passion and talent its not worth going. I might go when im much older and just want to learn but until then im saving my money.

Not Worth it in general.

Very little funnier than a 19-year old referring to college aged people as kids.

Additionally, I personally think you're insane for wanting to start a family at 19. Enjoy your life some first.

I'd say you're completely wrong about need a passion initially. I'd also say you're very wrong about it not being worth it in general. There is lots of value in going to college outside of pure academics. There are also plenty of people that find that passion while they're at school in an unexpected place.

So basically, I think all the reasons you gave are misplaced and you seem like the exact type of person that could benefit from some of the non-academic learning and growth that occurs at college.

I got a degree because the military said I needed one to be an officer... so I figured I might as well do something worthwhile and study engineering... Well, the military thing blew up in my face, but I still have the degree

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Im close to a bachelors and still not a single piece of debt to speak of.......Whenever I tell anyone that they get mad.

2 Bachelors, a Masters and a job that I did not go to school for and no debt.

Cleaning out my basement I found a paper I had to write in high school about where I saw myself 5 years after I graduated college.

Way off.

Wonder if that one kid ever made it as a major league pitcher?

Haha Piston Honda, I know that feeling. I figured that I'd have conquered the world at the head of a fanatically loyal ragtag army by now...

I figured I would have finally gotten a date........

I don't think the problem is that we are telling people you must get that piece of paper to succeed, I see the problem is we are telling people that getting that piece of paper is the only way to succeed. My problem was that during high school I had it drilled into me that I only had 2 options, goto UNI or get an apprenticeship and do a trade. After a few years I found that my desired career had so many different paths to get into it and I found the one that best suited me.