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Melissia wrote: The primarchs, like most space marines had something like bronze or brass for bones, according to descriptions I remember. OR equivalent to such anyway.
Which is stupid. Bones are stronger than either bronze or brass. Bones are actually stronger than steel by weight.
Yeah and the point is, my trusty rifle would blast straight though a primachs swede, bronze or brass or otherwise.
Except it wouldn't. Again, Primarchs have tanked plasma cannons, bathing in lava, etc. The problem is that you think W40K is 'realistic' when it's science fantasy, not fiction, fantasy, much to a greater degree than Star Wars. They have access to what are quite flatly impossible elements, alloys, and composites that don't give a flying about firearms or heat, they tank it with at best a small scorch or scratch of paint. The primarchs are supernatural ubermen made with what is effectively technomancy, and if the Chaos Gods are to be believed, even created by stealing power from Chaos during their creation. They're not human. They're not really even mammals. They're literal demigods where one of their number can regenerate from nearly any wound wolverine-style.
Your trusty rifle would either harmless ping off their armor with a small pain scratch, cut a small wound in their flesh which is nearly instantly patched and healed by their unique organs (which are similar that to an astartes' but turned up to eleven). A rifle certainly isn't going to do anything when far more powerful weapons have failed to kill them, let alone mortally wound them.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
Melissia wrote: The primarchs, like most space marines had something like bronze or brass for bones, according to descriptions I remember. OR equivalent to such anyway.
Which is stupid. Bones are stronger than either bronze or brass. Bones are actually stronger than steel by weight.
Yeah and the point is, my trusty rifle would blast straight though a primachs swede, bronze or brass or otherwise.
Except it wouldn't.
It would if their bones are equivalent to bronze or brass. That gak is pretty fething soft compared to bone!
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Melissia wrote: The primarchs, like most space marines had something like bronze or brass for bones, according to descriptions I remember. OR equivalent to such anyway.
Which is stupid. Bones are stronger than either bronze or brass. Bones are actually stronger than steel by weight.
Yeah and the point is, my trusty rifle would blast straight though a primachs swede, bronze or brass or otherwise.
Except it wouldn't.
It would if their bones are equivalent to bronze or brass. That gak is pretty fething soft compared to bone!
Obviously. Bone's among some of the strongest material produced by organic beings besides cobwebs. Reminds me how people think gold would make great armor when Minecraft got it right that it'd be utter crap.
The best comparison I think one could make is some supernaturally good ceramic alloy like astartes or some funky form of CNT. We just don't know besides they're really, really strong.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
But it was GW itself that made the comparison to the relatively soft metals.
So apparently, 40k is a universe where gold and bronze are better than steel
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Where is that written then did that actually happen in a novel? Im not doubting you, I'd just like to read it. I mean, it makes sense, like I said, BL writers clearly know feth all about actual guns and wars!
It was written when we see Angron withstood a bomb that destroyed a mountain and collapsed on him with no damage in False Gods, only to tear out in an explosion described as larger than the bomb itself.
Or when Vulkan withstood being hit by starship weaponry (A Macron cannon specifically IIRC).
Regardless, the point I was making is that the fluff is purposely vague, so its hard for anyone to be right or anyone else to be wrong, from a common sense point of view, there is absolutely no way at all that an ordinary high velocity rifle wouldn't smash right through a Primarchs skull, do you know much about firearms? I didnt make my comment with reference to a book, just real life knowledge and common sense.
I made my argument with the fact that the Primarchs are fictional supersoldiers made with actual magic and science that might as well be magic.
On a professional bullet pen range, you take some large wooden cubes, and place thick wooden boards separated by 6 inches of hard packed sand into them, and you then fire your weapons at them to see which has the best penetration. I fired all kinds of pistols and rifles into said boxes, and I even fired an old ass M1 Garand into one just for kicks, it was mainly for fun, but it teaches you something, mainly that your average screenwriter or director knows feth all about guns either.
Even a glock will usually smash two boards, I think a standard L2 went through like, 4 of them. If you fire a decent sized rifle, or heaven forbid something longer and larger, with a large caliber or with AP rounds, the thing will crack gak loads of them. You can easily kill people through cars, brick walls, trees, whatever.
K.
The Primachs presumably have something akin to bone for their skeletal systems right? Same goes for Orks. We dont use elepthant guns because a regular rifle round will "bounce" off the elephant, ut simply because it is less cruel. You could easily kill an elephant with an M4.
Ergo, you could easily put down an Ork, or a Primarch, or a Space Marine, with a regular rifle.
We have seen that, in the case of the Ork or Primarch at least (Accounts of Space Marines not wearing armour are extremely rare), that is not the case. Well, the Ork might die to enough headshots, but I digress.
Fulgrim, wearing a robe, withstood a full salvo of Sonic weaponry in The Mirror Crack'd, which were atomizing buildings within the same story.
Unless they have skeletal systems that are made from something tougher than steel plate (rounds go through steel plate as well by the way) at which point it would bring problems all of its own, because the cartilatege and such would not be able to move the muscle and blah blah blah blah
Clearly Primarch cartilage is both super tough yet still malleable enough to move.
My point is, the fluff doesn't make sense, so why argue about fiction which isnt well enough explored for anyone to be right or wrong?
Because we've seen Primarchs survive things far worse than an anti-material rifle.
A Raven Guard using a super cool future anti-material needle rifle actually shots Fulgrim in the bare temple. It deflects off his skull and eventually rests embedded on the other side of his skull.
Oh yeah, and I just read AURE by Abnett, and Gulliman kills 20 fully armed Alpha Legion guys with his bare hands, and afterwards, one of his advisors rebukes him and says that "One stray round to your head, and all of our dreams are dust" not "Ah well, they would just bonunce off your titanic skull my lord"
Space Marines are not infallible, and in several instances they have been known to underestimate even their own Primarchs, like in the case of Corax, who laughed off the notion that he needed a bodyguard, telling them it was just for appearances.
Like I said, the fluff is deliberately ambiguous, but Mel had the right of it from a simple "real world common sense" POV.
Right, because lasguns, next to bolters, are not the epitome of 40k small arms.
The percentage range provided by the Codex text fits to the weapon's profile both on the tabletop as well as the Inquisitor game. I take it that in your mind that is mere coincidence, then?
Well, we all see what we'd like to see.
Lynata wrote: Right, because lasguns, next to bolters, are not the epitome of 40k small arms.
The percentage range provided by the Codex text fits to the weapon's profile both on the tabletop as well as the Inquisitor game. I take it that in your mind that is mere coincidence, then?
Well, we all see what we'd like to see.
I don't care what the tabletop dictates. / shrugs
A lasgun is also not what Powered Armour was designed to combat, since the stuff was not meant to be used against other Imperials.
Also, keep the smugness to a minimum Lynata. The others here might not be wise to it, but I am.
Melissia wrote: But it was GW itself that made the comparison to the relatively soft metals.
So apparently, 40k is a universe where gold and bronze are better than steel
So all gold in W40K is a rare immensely dense and strong radioactive isotope that should kill everyone in vicinity? Good to know.
No, but it does apparently mean taht if you coat armor in it the armor becomes stronger!
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Melissia wrote: But it was GW itself that made the comparison to the relatively soft metals.
So apparently, 40k is a universe where gold and bronze are better than steel
So all gold in W40K is a rare immensely dense and strong radioactive isotope that should kill everyone in vicinity? Good to know.
No, but it does apparently mean taht if you coat armor in it the armor becomes stronger!
Someone should send a message to the Swords of Epiphany advising them to sue for product malfunction then. All-gold armor didn't seem to work out well for them.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
mattyrm wrote: Yeah and the point is, my trusty rifle would blast straight though a primachs swede, bronze or brass or otherwise.
Yeah, this is why firepower > biology.
Ever read the Salvation War series?
Not when said biology comes from a god for a father and effectively mother. Not to mention the massive amounts of psychic power infusions.
There is nothing on ground that can hope to contend with a Primarch in melee range.
It's not that hard to understand.
Not to mention the actual rules of Primarchs depicting them as tougher than land raiders. I mean a "headshot from a melta will kill a primarch" Nope Vulkan proceeds to laugh his ass off as the puny guardsmen has to get a 4 to wound and then get through a 3++. And the rules for special characters are toned down as a general rule.
Lynata wrote: Right, because lasguns, next to bolters, are not the epitome of 40k small arms.
The percentage range provided by the Codex text fits to the weapon's profile both on the tabletop as well as the Inquisitor game. I take it that in your mind that is mere coincidence, then?
Well, we all see what we'd like to see.
I don't care what the tabletop dictates. / shrugs
A lasgun is also not what Powered Armour was designed to combat, since the stuff was not meant to be used against other Imperials.
Also, keep the smugness to a minimum Lynata. The others here might not be wise to it, but I am.
How is it possible not to smell the smugness.
And again in every other source but codex fluff marines get severe burns from lasguns.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/20 04:12:33
Finally found my quote from a gym buddy born and raised in South Korea:
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag."
Perturabo ripped a Terminator Armor off clean with his bare hands
Russ fought on with a hole in his chest... i mean how many examples do we have to give..... seriously a sister or a marine could not mess with a primarch unless chaos amped or they have powerful weapons
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/20 04:21:05
Void__Dragon wrote:A lasgun is also not what Powered Armour was designed to combat
And is that your idea, or did you read that somewhere?
The Space Marines were the Emperor's tool for the Great Crusade, their purpose to bring lost human colonies back under Imperial control - and regardless of whether or not said planets actually had the necessary tech level to produce these weapons, it stands to reason the Emperor would assume that lasguns, being a Standard Template Construct supposedly distributed throughout the worlds he targeted, is exactly what would await his Legions.
Also, even if powered armour was not designed to protect against lasguns, would this not be an argument in favour of las weapons having a good effect on them?
Also, *I* care what the tabletop (and GW's other games) dictate - as I mentioned earlier, clear numbers and rules make for notably better material to go by as they avoid the possibility of information being twisted by propaganda, myth, exceptions, or simple plot-armour.
If you don't share this opinion, I guess we can only agree to disagree. In the end, all I'm asking is that we all recognise each other's opinion as just as valid instead of trying to enforce one's own idea no matter what.
Void__Dragon wrote:Also, keep the smugness to a minimum Lynata. The others here might not be wise to it, but I am.
Sarcasm is my way of dealing with this kind of obstinacy. I can only maintain a honest effort to convey what I believe to be interesting and useful information for so long, and truth be told, ever since you've tried telling me that, in your mind, Dorn could have died being shot by "a hundred lascannons", after having "become tired" due to having to fight his way through "a hundred Bloodthirsters", I am not sure how serious I should take your posts.
Maybe that was your form of sarcasm, and in some wicked way you perceive me just as I perceive you. If that's the case, I guess we just have a bad chemistry.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/20 04:28:58
Void__Dragon wrote:A lasgun is also not what Powered Armour was designed to combat
And is that your idea, or did you read that somewhere?
The Space Marines were the Emperor's tool for the Great Crusade, their purpose to bring lost human colonies back under Imperial control - and regardless of whether or not said planets actually had the necessary tech level to produce these weapons, it stands to reason the Emperor would assume that lasguns, being a Standard Template Construct supposedly distributed throughout the worlds he targeted, is exactly what would await his Legions.
Also, even if powered armour was not designed to protect against lasguns, would this not be an argument in favour of las weapons having a good effect on them?
Void__Dragon wrote:Also, keep the smugness to a minimum Lynata. The others here might not be wise to it, but I am.
Sarcasm is my way of dealing with this kind of obstinacy. I can only maintain a honest effort to convey what I believe to be interesting and useful information for so long, and truth be told, ever since you've tried telling me that, in your mind, Dorn could have died being shot by "a hundred lascannons", after having "become tired" due to having to fight his way through "a hundred Bloodthirsters", I am not sure how serious I should take your posts.
Maybe that was your form of sarcasm, and in some wicked way you perceive me just as I perceive you. If that's the case, I guess we just have a bad chemistry.
are you honestly trying to say the primarchs are weak man after we give you feat after feat
Melissia wrote: The primarchs, like most space marines had something like bronze or brass for bones, according to descriptions I remember. OR equivalent to such anyway.
Which is stupid. Bones are stronger than either bronze or brass. Bones are actually stronger than steel by weight.
Yeah and the point is, my trusty rifle would blast straight though a primachs swede, bronze or brass or otherwise.
Except it wouldn't. Again, Primarchs have tanked plasma cannons, bathing in lava, etc. The problem is that you think W40K is 'realistic' when it's science fantasy, not fiction, fantasy, much to a greater degree than Star Wars. They have access to what are quite flatly impossible elements, alloys, and composites that don't give a flying about firearms or heat, they tank it with at best a small scorch or scratch of paint. The primarchs are supernatural ubermen made with what is effectively technomancy, and if the Chaos Gods are to be believed, even created by stealing power from Chaos during their creation. They're not human. They're not really even mammals. They're literal demigods where one of their number can regenerate from nearly any wound wolverine-style.
Your trusty rifle would either harmless ping off their armor with a small pain scratch, cut a small wound in their flesh which is nearly instantly patched and healed by their unique organs (which are similar that to an astartes' but turned up to eleven). A rifle certainly isn't going to do anything when far more powerful weapons have failed to kill them, let alone mortally wound them.
This is wonderfully well said and a good analysis. Have an exalt.
Finally found my quote from a gym buddy born and raised in South Korea:
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag."
Melissia wrote: The primarchs, like most space marines had something like bronze or brass for bones, according to descriptions I remember. OR equivalent to such anyway.
Which is stupid. Bones are stronger than either bronze or brass. Bones are actually stronger than steel by weight.
Yeah and the point is, my trusty rifle would blast straight though a primachs swede, bronze or brass or otherwise.
Except it wouldn't. Again, Primarchs have tanked plasma cannons, bathing in lava, etc. The problem is that you think W40K is 'realistic' when it's science fantasy, not fiction, fantasy, much to a greater degree than Star Wars. They have access to what are quite flatly impossible elements, alloys, and composites that don't give a flying about firearms or heat, they tank it with at best a small scorch or scratch of paint. The primarchs are supernatural ubermen made with what is effectively technomancy, and if the Chaos Gods are to be believed, even created by stealing power from Chaos during their creation. They're not human. They're not really even mammals. They're literal demigods where one of their number can regenerate from nearly any wound wolverine-style.
Your trusty rifle would either harmless ping off their armor with a small pain scratch, cut a small wound in their flesh which is nearly instantly patched and healed by their unique organs (which are similar that to an astartes' but turned up to eleven). A rifle certainly isn't going to do anything when far more powerful weapons have failed to kill them, let alone mortally wound them.
This is wonderfully well said and a good analysis. Have an exalt.
thats true..the only time really a regular human or a marine has bested a primarch was when they were chaos amped or had a special weapon......
LightKing wrote:your going on about how a marine or a sister could beat a primarch in a battle....
No, that was not what I was talking about at all. That being said, I would not discount the possibility - as Psienesis has said, the weapons in this setting make for a great equaliser.
I don't see how this would make a Primarch "weak", though. Unless you see this not in a comparative manner, but rather that anything but invulnerability or nigh-invulnerability is "weak".
When I'm looking at Alpharius first meeting with Horus as described in the Index Astartes, I see a Primarch being wounded by small arms of human bridge officers - and to me, anything that can be wounded can also be killed. Because then it becomes only a question of how many bullets you need, and/or where exactly they hit.
Wyzilla wrote: The problem is that you think W40K is 'realistic' when it's science fantasy, not fiction, fantasy, much to a greater degree than Star Wars.
40k is whatever you want it to be. The "problem" is that a whole lot of people do not realise this, even though several GW designers, novel authors, and Black Library editors have attempted to explain this.
Like I said, the fluff is deliberately ambiguous, but Mel had the right of it from a simple "real world common sense" POV.
40k is not the real world.
Exactly, so why did you attempt to pick my post apart by using real world equations? You start going on about "cartilage is both super tough yet still malleable enough to move" and then end with "its not the real world" basically making your entire post pointless. Yes, it isnt the real world, we agree, and that was the point I was making, you don't need to worry about malleable cartilage or titanium bones, you just, you know.. read it and enjoy it. The whole point of my post was that if you try to apply real world biology or physics, absolutely nothing at all makes any sense, so its silly to argue about things like "who would win in a fight" or "who can run the fastest" or what have you.
Oh regards Vulkan surviving all kinds of crazy gak, have you not read An Unremembered Empire?
Spoiler:
Vulkan survives fething EVERYTHING because the guy is basically utterly immortal. He actually cant be killed, and Curze tortures him and kills him over and over again attempting to figure out why, he is literally unkillable by conventional means because once he dies, he gets back up again. He plummets through the atmosphere in flames after falling out of space, is pronounced dead, and then gets back up again a little later.
And even when he eventually gets killed by unconvetional means, "magic spirit dagger" you know as soon as the magic dagger gets removed in a later book he is going to be getting back up because he tells Guilliman AFTER the emperor is dead not to split his legion up, which infers the guy gets his mind back together and has indeed lived through his 50th killing
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
LightKing wrote:your going on about how a marine or a sister could beat a primarch in a battle....
No, that was not what I was talking about at all. That being said, I would not discount the possibility - as Psienesis has said, the weapons in this setting make for a great equaliser.
I don't see how this would make a Primarch "weak", though. Unless you see this not in a comparative manner, but rather that anything but invulnerability or nigh-invulnerability is "weak".
When I'm looking at Alpharius first meeting with Horus as described in the Index Astartes, I see a Primarch being wounded by small arms of human bridge officers - and to me, anything that can be wounded can also be killed. Because then it becomes only a question of how many bullets you need, and/or where exactly they hit.
Wyzilla wrote: The problem is that you think W40K is 'realistic' when it's science fantasy, not fiction, fantasy, much to a greater degree than Star Wars.
40k is whatever you want it to be. The "problem" is that a whole lot of people do not realise this, even though several GW designers, novel authors, and Black Library editors have attempted to explain this.
There's ignoring canon, and then there's outright ignoring everything and living in a delusional false image of what it even is- like thinking Halo or Star Wars is hard sci fi. W40K is a black comedy with satire served everywhere and everything being a parody to some degree. Thinking otherwise is similar to those people that don't understand that Stephan Colbert is a character.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
LightKing wrote: I think trying to argue real world logic and physics when it comes to beings like the primarchs is stretching it
I don't, but then again, I don't feel any desperate need to have them be unbeatable gods of war in my 40k.
That would just make them more boring, and frankly, some of the primarchs (Angron comes to mind) need no help in being boring.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/20 14:17:37
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
LightKing wrote: why is this a silly debate? i like a good debate?
It is a silly debate.
All factions in the setting are described in bombastic terms, presenting them as nearly unstoppable. It is impossible to determine who is the best. It all boils down to people who hasn´t read the fluff of the other faction claiming "my faction is the beeeessttt!!". Sure, some of us are giving official quotes and stuff. But to no avail.
I meant he [Curze] wasn't the strongest or toughest. He was the 2nd fastest (Sanguinius was faster, right?), the most unpredictable, one of the smartest, and arguably the best weapon handler.
At the risk of turning this into a Primarch discussion, I don´t see where are you getting this from. The "who is the most X Primarch" threads are just like this one. It is really hard to catalogue the Primarchs, and people end up claiming that "X is more Z than Y" without any real reason.
However, Curze was described as an awful duelist compared with the Lion. He pummeled Dorn to near death with ease (after a sucker punch attack), so he is supposed to be quite strong and fast. I am not sure Sanguinius is faster than, say, Corax or Fulgrim, unless you are referring to his wings. And Curze was insane, unpredictable doesn´t really apply. Smart? He was able to see the future (part of it), but I don´t see him as particularly brilliant in any field.
Some BL writers said that all Primarchs are more of less at the same level and any duel between them depends on the context.
Wyzilla wrote: And lasguns can't kill Astartes without concentrated fire on flesh anyway. Otherwise their armor simply gets mildly scorched by lasguns or their sensors are stunned.
(And Orks just get burnt skin.)
Where do people get this stuff? There are perhaps hundreds of sources showing guardsmen killing Orks with Lasguns. How are they supposed to fight Orks otherwise? They die until the Space Marines appear? And an overheated lasgun can go through Power Armour as if it were butter. And the same go for Marines.
In my final opinion: A sister has 0 chance one on one with a marine in any contest or circumstance. And there are more marines than sisters. There.
Your final opinion has zero relation with the background.
See the quotes posted on previous pages: all Codexes that mention the Sisters say otherwise ("equal to Marines"). As do most books, most RPG games and all Videogames to date. Feel free to provide a single quote claiming otherwise.
While the fluff is big enough that nobody can be really "wrong" while expressing an opinion, all of you claiming that Sisters (which job is, among others, killing renegade Marines) have zero chances against Marines are yet to find a single quote that depicts the Sisters as far inferior than Marines, yet other people has provided scores of official sources claiming otherwise.
Or when Vulkan withstood being hit by starship weaponry (A Macron cannon specifically IIRC).
It is sad, but this is a bad example. I am specifically avoiding using examples of Vulcan being defeated, wounded or worse, out of respect for the character. If you ignore what I am talking about, I envy you, and I would recommend you not to read neither "Vulkan Lives!" nor "Unremembered Empire".
What mattyrm said. In adition,
Spoiler:
Do you remember the character Claire Bennet from Heros? The cheerleader. She was impossible to kill so the script killed her over and over and over again pushing it to stupid levels. They did the same to Vulkan. He dies, and dies, and dies, and dies, and dies, and dies...
‘Your warriors will stand down and withdraw, Curze. That is an order, not a request. (…) When this campaign is won, you and I will have words’
Rogal Dorn, just before taking the beating of his life.
from The Dark King, by Graham McNeill.
Modern .50? Probably, given the insane range of Space Marine feats. Mid range it might take a chunk out of the face, but high end? They probably wouldn't even land the hit. (And then there's the question if he's got his helmet on or not, which would cleanly deflect a .50 with a paint scratch.)
Power Armor only stops 85% of laspistol and autogun rounds. An anti-material rifle is going to blow right through it.
I'm talking about a modern one. It'd harmlessly ping off the armor. And lasguns can't kill Astartes without concentrated fire on flesh anyway. Otherwise their armor simply gets mildly scorched by lasguns or their sensors are stunned. (And Orks just get burnt skin.)
That doesn't make any sense. If lasguns did jack against orks, why bother giving them to the IG? The orks are the most common xeno enemy the IoM face, so giving your soldiers weapons that do not harm them would be idiotic. It would be like the US army being out-fitted with pop guns.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/20 17:48:56
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
Sanguinius moves fast enough for his every movement to be blurred, and creates shockwaves with his movements. Yes he moves at Mach speeds.
He also singlehandedly fought back 10's of thousands of traitors on the steps of the palace at the battle of Terra.
Finally found my quote from a gym buddy born and raised in South Korea:
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag."
ThePrimordial wrote: Sanguinius moves fast enough for his every movement to be blurred, and creates shockwaves with his movements. Yes he moves at Mach speeds.
He also singlehandedly fought back 10's of thousands of traitors on the steps of the palace at the battle of Terra.
Source?
The Blood Angels Legion was in charge of the defense of the Gates of Eternity, one of the key-points of the Imperial Palace. They hold the position against the World Eaters and a swarm of chaos followers and Daemons. Great deeds of unmatched heroism were done during the battle, and the tale as written in Visions of Heresy (old version) depicts Sanguinius as one of the greatest heroes in the Imperium. It is truly amazing and I recommend any fan to get a copy of that book.
But.
1) He was at the head of his Legion. Given that we have squads of marines fighting Primarchs in other sources it would be really strange if Sanguinius alone, all of a sudden, started fighting thousands of marines.
2) Most of the story was retconned by James Swallow in the nefarious "Fear to Thread", a book about the battle on Signus Prime. He changed most plots that ended in the Gate of Eternity. We don´t really know what happened in the Gates of Eternity now.
3) I do believe he was never described as moving at supersonic speed. Seems rather silly to me, the kind of "Superman-like" feature that would turn a Primarch into a lame, boring, stupid character.
I could be wrong, though. Source? Where did you read that?
Wyzilla wrote: (...) W40K is a black comedy with satire served everywhere and everything being a parody to some degree. (...)
That´s true.
However, it is easy to forget, mostly because all the grimdark and because most humor is English humor with witty references to stuff that is no longer there.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/20 17:23:55
‘Your warriors will stand down and withdraw, Curze. That is an order, not a request. (…) When this campaign is won, you and I will have words’
Rogal Dorn, just before taking the beating of his life.
from The Dark King, by Graham McNeill.
about firearms or heat, they tank it with at best a small scorch or scratch of paint. The primarchs are supernatural ubermen made with what is effectively technomancy, and if the Chaos Gods are to be believed, even created by stealing power from Chaos during their creation. They're not human. They're not really even mammals. They're literal demigods where one of their number can regenerate from nearly any wound wolverine-style.
~4100
~1660