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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 14:23:47
Subject: Another school shooting today
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Wing Commander
Firehawk 1st Armored Regimental Headquarters
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A resource officer would not be stationed in a specific class room during an attack, as they would normally be in the security office or at the schools main office.
A teacher would be far more reluctant to leave his kids to go get at a shoot.
And yes I understand lots of people conceal and carry, but how many of them keep up on there practice? How many have been in a high stress combat situation? How many have had to deal with possibly throwing there lifes on the line?
Exactly, better we have trained officers specifically trained to prevent these things rather than banking if we give enough people enough guns in a certain 100 mile radius someone will stop it. The whole idea of just making everyone a concealed carrier is a lazy excuse for not just making sure the police and school RO is doing there job.
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"The Imperium is nothing if not willing to go to any lengths necessary. So the Trekkies are zipping around at warp speed taking small chucks out of an nigh-on infinite amount of ships, with the Imperium being unable to strike back. feth it, says central command, and detonates every vortex warhead in the fleet, plunging the entire sector into the Warp. Enjoy tentacle-rape, Kirk, we know Sulu will." -Terminus
"This great fortress was a gift to the Blood Ravens from the legendary Imperial Fists. When asked about it Chapter Master Pugh was reported to say: "THEY TOOK WHAT!?"" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 14:25:07
Subject: Another school shooting today
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Easy E wrote:Great. Than we don't need to worry about arming teachers per the NRA's advice. I'm glad we agree Jake.
Not having armed teachers is why this thread exists genius.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 14:25:33
Subject: Another school shooting today
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Fixture of Dakka
CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence
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Alexzandvar wrote:The proof an armed society is a polite one is a fallacy
An armed society is a paranoid and fearful society, the idea you need to give everyone guns in order to make people treat each other decent is abhorrent.
At a point you have to stop and think what happened when we decided rather than reach out to troubled people to prevent things like this to instead just arm society to the teeth.
Can you prevent all of these cases? Simple answer, no, you cannot.
Has anyone here argued that we should give everyone gun as opposed to allowing folks to choose for themselves? Taking people's choice to have a weapon and their right to defend themselves is abhorrent to many of us. You don't see us trying to force gun ownership on anyone.
When did ANYONE decide to arm society to the teeth rather than reach out to help troubled people? That is just another silly straw man argument.
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Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 14:27:32
Subject: Another school shooting today
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Imperial Admiral
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Alexzandvar wrote:A resource officer would not be stationed in a specific class room during an attack, as they would normally be in the security office or at the schools main office.
A teacher would be far more reluctant to leave his kids to go get at a shoot.
And yes I understand lots of people conceal and carry, but how many of them keep up on there practice? How many have been in a high stress combat situation? How many have had to deal with possibly throwing there lifes on the line?
Exactly, better we have trained officers specifically trained to prevent these things rather than banking if we give enough people enough guns in a certain 100 mile radius someone will stop it. The whole idea of just making everyone a concealed carrier is a lazy excuse for not just making sure the police and school RO is doing there job.
Dude, you're wildly overestimating the capabilities and training level of your average cop.
I feel quite confident saying that most individuals who go to the trouble of picking up a concealed carry license train more than your local beat-walker. It's like people who go, "Only police and military should have private guns, since they've been trained!" Trust me when I say I know plenty of aviation machinist mates who know less than 12 year-olds of my acquaintance about safe and accurate use of a firearm.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 14:29:12
Subject: Another school shooting today
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Alexzandvar wrote:A resource officer would not be stationed in a specific class room during an attack, as they would normally be in the security office or at the schools main office.
A teacher would be far more reluctant to leave his kids to go get at a shoot.
And yes I understand lots of people conceal and carry, but how many of them keep up on there practice? How many have been in a high stress combat situation? How many have had to deal with possibly throwing there lifes on the line?
Exactly, better we have trained officers specifically trained to prevent these things rather than banking if we give enough people enough guns in a certain 100 mile radius someone will stop it. The whole idea of just making everyone a concealed carrier is a lazy excuse for not just making sure the police and school RO is doing there job.
Lemme guess, you live ensconced in a city with absolutely no exposure to a firearms except what you see on TV or in the movies and an irrational fear of said arms. The questions you ask and the statements you've posted seem to prove my suspicions.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 14:30:10
Subject: Another school shooting today
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Fixture of Dakka
CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence
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Alexzandvar wrote:A resource officer would not be stationed in a specific class room during an attack, as they would normally be in the security office or at the schools main office. A teacher would be far more reluctant to leave his kids to go get at a shoot. And yes I understand lots of people conceal and carry, but how many of them keep up on there practice? How many have been in a high stress combat situation? How many have had to deal with possibly throwing there lifes on the line? Exactly, better we have trained officers specifically trained to prevent these things rather than banking if we give enough people enough guns in a certain 100 mile radius someone will stop it. The whole idea of just making everyone a concealed carrier is a lazy excuse for not just making sure the police and school RO is doing there job. Again, who the feth has called to make everyone a concealed carrier? How many cops and ROs keep up on their practice? How many have been in a high stress combat situations? How many have had to deal with possibly throwing their life on the line? Anyone who chooses to carry has at some point thought of being in the position of 'throwing their life on the line' which is a reason they carry in the first place.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/18 14:31:31
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 14:31:59
Subject: Another school shooting today
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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Spacemanvic wrote:Lemme guess, you live ensconced in a city with absolutely no exposure to a firearms except what you see on TV or in the movies and an irrational fear of said arms. The questions you ask and the statements you've posted seem to prove my suspicions.
So, what you are saying is someone living in an area where there are less guns is less likey to be involved in a situation where their local school/shopping centre/etc is attacked by someone with a gun, and so therefore knows less about guns and how to respond to them?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 14:42:30
Subject: Another school shooting today
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Wing Commander
Firehawk 1st Armored Regimental Headquarters
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I don't have an Irrational fear of guns, my family personally owns several and I have worked with all of them before and made sure I treat them with respect. The area I live in has lots of exposure to guns and the what not.
As I said in my previous post, increasing the amount of concealed carriers, or just making all teachers concealed carries so they don't have to leave behind there kids is just an excuse for the fact we don't train our cops enough or train our RO's enough.
There is a problem yes, but we continue to confine ourselves to the absolute of THERES A SHOOTER IN THE BUILDING OH GOD as apposed to maybe trying to prevent this with some other means.
Your not going to dissuade a psychopath with guns, you will however dissuade him by giving him the proper metal healthcare
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"The Imperium is nothing if not willing to go to any lengths necessary. So the Trekkies are zipping around at warp speed taking small chucks out of an nigh-on infinite amount of ships, with the Imperium being unable to strike back. feth it, says central command, and detonates every vortex warhead in the fleet, plunging the entire sector into the Warp. Enjoy tentacle-rape, Kirk, we know Sulu will." -Terminus
"This great fortress was a gift to the Blood Ravens from the legendary Imperial Fists. When asked about it Chapter Master Pugh was reported to say: "THEY TOOK WHAT!?"" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 14:54:02
Subject: Another school shooting today
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Yellin' Yoof on a Scooter
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Ahh, good ol' Murica and "I NEED MAH GUNZ TO PROTECT MUH FREEDUMZ".
All jokes aside (Also the Gun-Control Shtick aside, i dont give two feths if americans shoot americans with their beloved Guns, so I have nothing of value to add to that), wouldnt it be smarter to adress WHY these shooting happen? Do these kids have somewhere they can go to if they're troubled? Is bullying a large problem? Do teachers and coaches actually address issues like mobbing etc.? You can kill people with a whole lot of different things, I think it would be smarter to deal with this stuff BEFORE someone gets the idea for a massacre.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 14:57:31
Subject: Another school shooting today
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Wing Commander
Firehawk 1st Armored Regimental Headquarters
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Stuebi wrote:Ahh, good ol' Murica and "I NEED MAH GUNZ TO PROTECT MUH FREEDUMZ".
All jokes aside (Also the Gun-Control Shtick aside, i dont give two feths if americans shoot americans with their beloved Guns, so I have nothing of value to add to that), wouldnt it be smarter to adress WHY these shooting happen? Do these kids have somewhere they can go to if they're troubled? Is bullying a large problem? Do teachers and coaches actually address issues like mobbing etc.? You can kill people with a whole lot of different things, I think it would be smarter to deal with this stuff BEFORE someone gets the idea for a massacre.
Exactly, the best way to prevent these things is non-violent means. Mental healthcare and counseling goes a long way.
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"The Imperium is nothing if not willing to go to any lengths necessary. So the Trekkies are zipping around at warp speed taking small chucks out of an nigh-on infinite amount of ships, with the Imperium being unable to strike back. feth it, says central command, and detonates every vortex warhead in the fleet, plunging the entire sector into the Warp. Enjoy tentacle-rape, Kirk, we know Sulu will." -Terminus
"This great fortress was a gift to the Blood Ravens from the legendary Imperial Fists. When asked about it Chapter Master Pugh was reported to say: "THEY TOOK WHAT!?"" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 15:05:11
Subject: Another school shooting today
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Yellin' Yoof on a Scooter
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Alexzandvar wrote:Stuebi wrote:Ahh, good ol' Murica and "I NEED MAH GUNZ TO PROTECT MUH FREEDUMZ".
All jokes aside (Also the Gun-Control Shtick aside, i dont give two feths if americans shoot americans with their beloved Guns, so I have nothing of value to add to that), wouldnt it be smarter to adress WHY these shooting happen? Do these kids have somewhere they can go to if they're troubled? Is bullying a large problem? Do teachers and coaches actually address issues like mobbing etc.? You can kill people with a whole lot of different things, I think it would be smarter to deal with this stuff BEFORE someone gets the idea for a massacre.
Exactly, the best way to prevent these things is non-violent means. Mental healthcare and counseling goes a long way.
Something like that was what i meant, yes.
I used to be a really troubled Teenager, and while I got lucky with meeting some cool people, it also helped that once in a while someone just took 5 minutes to ask how im doing etc. And even if thats not a given, we have an abundance of Hotlines and institues you can go. Im pretty sure most of these kids would just need some help, in whatever form you can provide.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 15:14:20
Subject: Another school shooting today
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Wing Commander
Firehawk 1st Armored Regimental Headquarters
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In my area you don't really have those things since schools do not have the rights to intervene as much as they used to in specific cases.
But overall the our mental healthcare system is absolutely laughable, there is almost zero proactive pushes to get people to seek help, sadly more often than not its not until something bad happens someone gets help.
The government just does not have the authority to step in in cases of mental illness like some of these shooters often have, or even in cases of bullying.
I mean whos more at fault? The shooter or the kids and teachers who drove him to commit the act?
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"The Imperium is nothing if not willing to go to any lengths necessary. So the Trekkies are zipping around at warp speed taking small chucks out of an nigh-on infinite amount of ships, with the Imperium being unable to strike back. feth it, says central command, and detonates every vortex warhead in the fleet, plunging the entire sector into the Warp. Enjoy tentacle-rape, Kirk, we know Sulu will." -Terminus
"This great fortress was a gift to the Blood Ravens from the legendary Imperial Fists. When asked about it Chapter Master Pugh was reported to say: "THEY TOOK WHAT!?"" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 15:21:10
Subject: Another school shooting today
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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Buuut... bootstraps! Pulling yourself up by! Guns! None of my money going to people who need it! AMERICA!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 15:26:56
Subject: Re:Another school shooting today
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Regarding Canadian Firearms licence, once I have that licence I can buy a fire arm any where in Canada and all the merchant has to do is check to make sure the licence is still valid very fast and easy. The reason it takes a long time to get a licence is because of the 2006 Dawson College Shooting in Montreal. Where a man shot 19 people killing one using weapons that were purchased legally and he had a fire arms licence and all of his weapons were registered http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawson_College_shooting. When these facts came to light the anti gun control crowd and pro gun control crowd used it to further their cause but the pro gun control crowd won and the investigation process is now longer to make sure no one else falls through the cracks so to speak.
And yes people had their guns confiscated by the RCMP in Alberta during the flood. The Police entered homes that they knew contained fire arms and confiscated them worried that the homes would be targeted by criminals. from what I know all the fire arms have been returned to their owners and due to large number of complaints both the RCMP and the federal government is conducting an inquiry into the incident.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 15:39:35
Subject: Another school shooting today
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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SilverMK2 wrote: Spacemanvic wrote:Lemme guess, you live ensconced in a city with absolutely no exposure to a firearms except what you see on TV or in the movies and an irrational fear of said arms. The questions you ask and the statements you've posted seem to prove my suspicions.
So, what you are saying is someone living in an area where there are less guns is less likey to be involved in a situation where their local school/shopping centre/etc is attacked by someone with a gun, and so therefore knows less about guns and how to respond to them?
No
Places where an assailant has no fear of meeting someone with a gun (gun free zones) will still be the attractive targets to them that they currently are.
The current school attack ended in 80 seconds when the gunman was confronted by an armed sheriffs deputy. Also, about 3 years ago, another potential shooting at a school was averted when the gunman was confronted by an armed principal.
There are many unreported instances (you have to dig into police reports) of firearms being used to stop crimes. They go unreported by the media because they run contrary to the medias mantra "guns are bad, OMG evil!!".
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 15:44:25
Subject: Another school shooting today
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Wing Commander
Firehawk 1st Armored Regimental Headquarters
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If you could look at the posts above you you would see that you can do far more than use guns to stop mass killings.
And if you have to dig through police reports to find instances of this then you are reaching for proof.
How often do these events occur? What are the ratio of guns per person in this area? Could the event have been already prevented through non-violent means? Would there have been other ways of prevention?
These are all valid questions, we should not have to fall back on the idea of guns in schools if its more than easy enough to prevent through non-violent means
EDIT: You also don't need to be so toxic as well about guns, were not saying guns are evil, but merely that theres an obvious issue as hand with school shootings that needs to be adressed
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/18 15:45:11
"The Imperium is nothing if not willing to go to any lengths necessary. So the Trekkies are zipping around at warp speed taking small chucks out of an nigh-on infinite amount of ships, with the Imperium being unable to strike back. feth it, says central command, and detonates every vortex warhead in the fleet, plunging the entire sector into the Warp. Enjoy tentacle-rape, Kirk, we know Sulu will." -Terminus
"This great fortress was a gift to the Blood Ravens from the legendary Imperial Fists. When asked about it Chapter Master Pugh was reported to say: "THEY TOOK WHAT!?"" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 15:45:25
Subject: Another school shooting today
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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And yet in the whole of Europe there have been less school shootings ever than there have been in the USA in pretty much any 5-10 year period in the last hundred years...
Man, if only you had more guns...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 15:46:17
Subject: Another school shooting today
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Stuebi wrote:Ahh, good ol' Murica and "I NEED MAH GUNZ TO PROTECT MUH FREEDUMZ".
All jokes aside (Also the Gun-Control Shtick aside, i dont give two feths if americans shoot americans with their beloved Guns, so I have nothing of value to add to that), wouldnt it be smarter to adress WHY these shooting happen? Do these kids have somewhere they can go to if they're troubled? Is bullying a large problem? Do teachers and coaches actually address issues like mobbing etc.? You can kill people with a whole lot of different things, I think it would be smarter to deal with this stuff BEFORE someone gets the idea for a massacre.
It would be better and more cost efficient to deal with them mental health issues that connect all these mass shootings.
BUT, in the '70's it was argued that the patients had rights and removed the ability to remand the mentally disabled into medical care. So rather than risk a lawsuit, the patient is drugged up and let loose on the street. Again to avoid lawsuits, many medical practices under report instances where someone has been given treatment, thereby letting that person slip through the cracks and pass some background checks.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 15:49:53
Subject: Another school shooting today
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Says you...
An armed society is a paranoid and fearful society, the idea you need to give everyone guns in order to make people treat each other decent is abhorrent.
wut? We're practically an armed society now... no one is "paranoid and fearful".
At a point you have to stop and think what happened when we decided rather than reach out to troubled people to prevent things like this to instead just arm society to the teeth.
That's part of the solution... not the ONLY solution.
Let's play "what ifs".
Dude attempts to assault a chick... the best equalizer to that is "Smith & Weston".
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 15:52:04
Subject: Another school shooting today
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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whembly wrote:wut? We're practically an armed society now... no one is "paranoid and fearful".
Is that someone trying to impose gun control? *points*
"RABBLERABBLERABBLE!"
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 15:52:17
Subject: Another school shooting today
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Wing Commander
Firehawk 1st Armored Regimental Headquarters
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Spacemanvic wrote:Stuebi wrote:Ahh, good ol' Murica and "I NEED MAH GUNZ TO PROTECT MUH FREEDUMZ".
All jokes aside (Also the Gun-Control Shtick aside, i dont give two feths if americans shoot americans with their beloved Guns, so I have nothing of value to add to that), wouldnt it be smarter to adress WHY these shooting happen? Do these kids have somewhere they can go to if they're troubled? Is bullying a large problem? Do teachers and coaches actually address issues like mobbing etc.? You can kill people with a whole lot of different things, I think it would be smarter to deal with this stuff BEFORE someone gets the idea for a massacre.
It would be better and more cost efficient to deal with them mental health issues that connect all these mass shootings.
BUT, in the '70's it was argued that the patients had rights and removed the ability to remand the mentally disabled into medical care. So rather than risk a lawsuit, the patient is drugged up and let loose on the street. Again to avoid lawsuits, many medical practices under report instances where someone has been given treatment, thereby letting that person slip through the cracks and pass some background checks.
So we invariably run into the my rights scenario again. So we can either take away insane peoples rights to own guns or take away there rights to not get treatment for being mentally ill.
This is a catch 22 scenario, and has no easy solution.
Automatically Appended Next Post: whembly wrote:
Says you...
An armed society is a paranoid and fearful society, the idea you need to give everyone guns in order to make people treat each other decent is abhorrent.
wut? We're practically an armed society now... no one is "paranoid and fearful".
At a point you have to stop and think what happened when we decided rather than reach out to troubled people to prevent things like this to instead just arm society to the teeth.
That's part of the solution... not the ONLY solution.
Let's play "what ifs".
Dude attempts to assault a chick... the best equalizer to that is "Smith & Weston".
America is by far one of the most paranoid countries outside of the far east. We have historically always treated foreigners like crap, continue to use American Exceptionalism to continue to teach our kids fascist ideas of us being superior over others. We make all our kids in school pledge themselves to the country everyday.
So yes we are a paraniod society, and the simple fact there is so much outrage about simple background checks is more than proof enough.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/18 15:55:21
"The Imperium is nothing if not willing to go to any lengths necessary. So the Trekkies are zipping around at warp speed taking small chucks out of an nigh-on infinite amount of ships, with the Imperium being unable to strike back. feth it, says central command, and detonates every vortex warhead in the fleet, plunging the entire sector into the Warp. Enjoy tentacle-rape, Kirk, we know Sulu will." -Terminus
"This great fortress was a gift to the Blood Ravens from the legendary Imperial Fists. When asked about it Chapter Master Pugh was reported to say: "THEY TOOK WHAT!?"" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 15:57:13
Subject: Another school shooting today
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The prevention has to occur BEFORE the event begins. Use of a firearm is because of a failure of the system. Denying innocents the ability to address this failure (ie access to firearms) is unconscionable - that is what Gun Free Zones represent.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 16:02:02
Subject: Another school shooting today
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Wing Commander
Firehawk 1st Armored Regimental Headquarters
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Spacemanvic wrote:
The prevention has to occur BEFORE the event begins. Use of a firearm is because of a failure of the system. Denying innocents the ability to address this failure (ie access to firearms) is unconscionable - that is what Gun Free Zones represent.
To bad in the current state of our society there is no prevention so we have to fall back on treating the symptom not the disease. Not to mention the side effects of widespread gun ownership in a modern society are only now starting to be realized, with increases over mishandling accident and accidentally shootings increasing over the years we face the unfortunate fact that we simply paying the price for not investing in preventing violent crime.
People don't just wake up one day and shoot 30 people, these things while irrational do come out of sick logic in sick peoples heads. Peoples heads we could have fixed before they long came to the conclusion that killing was the solution.
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"The Imperium is nothing if not willing to go to any lengths necessary. So the Trekkies are zipping around at warp speed taking small chucks out of an nigh-on infinite amount of ships, with the Imperium being unable to strike back. feth it, says central command, and detonates every vortex warhead in the fleet, plunging the entire sector into the Warp. Enjoy tentacle-rape, Kirk, we know Sulu will." -Terminus
"This great fortress was a gift to the Blood Ravens from the legendary Imperial Fists. When asked about it Chapter Master Pugh was reported to say: "THEY TOOK WHAT!?"" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 16:04:25
Subject: Another school shooting today
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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Spacemanvic wrote:The prevention has to occur BEFORE the event begins. Use of a firearm is because of a failure of the system. Denying innocents the ability to address this failure (ie access to firearms) is unconscionable - that is what Gun Free Zones represent.
So how does one prevent things? Stricter gun control and checks before gun/ammo purchases to make sure the person buying them is not barred for some reason (being a criminal, having mental health issues, etc?)? Have stricter laws on gun storage and transport (such as a requirement for use of gun safes in houses and cars) so it is more difficult for theives to get hold of your gun(s)? Tie in gun "blacklist" events more closely so that a routine check upon attempted purchase will flag up at the store, preventing sale? Closure of gun shop loopholes? A requirement for private sales to go through a check similar to gun stores? For gun registration as there is with cars, where you have to inform once you have had a gun stolen, sold, or destroyed? More effort to detecting, preventing and curing mental health issues? Allowing guns to be carried everywhere?
The majority of the "gun control" measures are a hell of a lot more practical than many of the "solve it with more guns" measures...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 16:04:30
Subject: Another school shooting today
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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You do know that the police are under no obligation to protect you?
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1976377/posts
Which is why I chose to exercise my right to self protection.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SilverMK2 wrote: Spacemanvic wrote:The prevention has to occur BEFORE the event begins. Use of a firearm is because of a failure of the system. Denying innocents the ability to address this failure (ie access to firearms) is unconscionable - that is what Gun Free Zones represent.
So how does one prevent things? Stricter gun control and checks before gun/ammo purchases to make sure the person buying them is not barred for some reason (being a criminal, having mental health issues, etc?)? Have stricter laws on gun storage and transport (such as a requirement for use of gun safes in houses and cars) so it is more difficult for theives to get hold of your gun(s)? Tie in gun "blacklist" events more closely so that a routine check upon attempted purchase will flag up at the store, preventing sale? Closure of gun shop loopholes? A requirement for private sales to go through a check similar to gun stores? For gun registration as there is with cars, where you have to inform once you have had a gun stolen, sold, or destroyed? More effort to detecting, preventing and curing mental health issues? Allowing guns to be carried everywhere?
The majority of the "gun control" measures are a hell of a lot more practical than many of the "solve it with more guns" measures...
Dont be ridiculous. Criminals dont buy their guns legally. Restrictions dont mean a damn thing to them. Except maybe raise the price for a hot piece.
But then again, the UK has chosen to allow themselves to be disarmed. Easy enough to do on a tiny island I suppose. Here in the US, the pesky Constitution enumerates the right of self protection against criminals.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/18 16:09:06
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 16:12:42
Subject: Another school shooting today
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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And how many of the people who shoot up schools get their guns illegally? A lot of guns seem to be legally owned by either the shooter, or a family member. A requirement to keep guns in a gun safe pretty much eliminates the ability of a family member getting hold of your gun, and a screening process for mental illness may well sniff out some of those who would otherwise legally be able to buy guns.
But yeah, I guess illegally buying guns is always an option. I guess that is why in the UK we have only ever had a single school shooting, carried out by someone who legally owned their weapons... Surprised we have not had more shootings since illegal guns are apparently as easy to buy as legal weapons!
Lowered threshold for action makes action more likely.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 16:13:00
Subject: Another school shooting today
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Wing Commander
Firehawk 1st Armored Regimental Headquarters
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Spacemanvic wrote:You do know that the police are under no obligation to protect you?
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1976377/posts
Which is why I chose to exercise my right to self protection.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SilverMK2 wrote: Spacemanvic wrote:The prevention has to occur BEFORE the event begins. Use of a firearm is because of a failure of the system. Denying innocents the ability to address this failure (ie access to firearms) is unconscionable - that is what Gun Free Zones represent.
So how does one prevent things? Stricter gun control and checks before gun/ammo purchases to make sure the person buying them is not barred for some reason (being a criminal, having mental health issues, etc?)? Have stricter laws on gun storage and transport (such as a requirement for use of gun safes in houses and cars) so it is more difficult for theives to get hold of your gun(s)? Tie in gun "blacklist" events more closely so that a routine check upon attempted purchase will flag up at the store, preventing sale? Closure of gun shop loopholes? A requirement for private sales to go through a check similar to gun stores? For gun registration as there is with cars, where you have to inform once you have had a gun stolen, sold, or destroyed? More effort to detecting, preventing and curing mental health issues? Allowing guns to be carried everywhere?
The majority of the "gun control" measures are a hell of a lot more practical than many of the "solve it with more guns" measures...
Dont be ridiculous. Criminals dont buy their guns legally. Restrictions dont mean a damn thing to them. Except maybe raise the price for a hot piece.
But then again, the UK has chosen to allow themselves to be disarmed. Easy enough to do on a tiny island I suppose. Here in the US, the pesky Constitution enumerates the right of self protection against criminals.
Except that almost all mass shooters and school shooters in the recent decade all obtained there firearms legally with almost no background checks because there is no unified system in the united states for collecting information on people to check things when it comes to records.
Oh wait there are, but we don't have laws forcing gun stores to actually use those data bases, although I will give you we have no unified mental health check system.
And why do you bring up the point that police technically don't have to help you? Are you implying that because of the 1 in a million chance of the officer on hand chickening out we need to arm people?
How desperate is that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also it is very hard to obtain guns illegally in countries with good background check systems, because it allows police and other agencys to check if you actually, yknow got that gun legally.
We don't have a unified system for that here.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/18 16:14:27
"The Imperium is nothing if not willing to go to any lengths necessary. So the Trekkies are zipping around at warp speed taking small chucks out of an nigh-on infinite amount of ships, with the Imperium being unable to strike back. feth it, says central command, and detonates every vortex warhead in the fleet, plunging the entire sector into the Warp. Enjoy tentacle-rape, Kirk, we know Sulu will." -Terminus
"This great fortress was a gift to the Blood Ravens from the legendary Imperial Fists. When asked about it Chapter Master Pugh was reported to say: "THEY TOOK WHAT!?"" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 16:17:45
Subject: Another school shooting today
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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Spacemanvic wrote:But then again, the UK has chosen to allow themselves to be disarmed. Easy enough to do on a tiny island I suppose. Here in the US, the pesky Constitution enumerates the right of self protection against criminals.
Haha! You realise that America is pretty much the only civilised country which allows private gun ownership to any significant extent? Europe as a whole is a gun free area with a population significantly more than that of the USA. I wonder why there have only been 20 school shootings over here in the last 100 years, compared to the pretty regular school shootings in the USA? I guess you are so well protected by an ammendment to your constitution that you have not considered joining the rest of the world on gun control...
But hey, they are not my children being shot, nor is it likely that my family will be gunned down in the street, or at the shops... I don't fear that kind of thing and I don't need a gun to feel that kind of safety.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 16:17:53
Subject: Another school shooting today
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Alexzandvar wrote:
America is by far one of the most paranoid countries outside of the far east. We have historically always treated foreigners like crap,
Have any proof of that? Maybe we can ask some expatriot Dakkanauts who's currently living in the states.
continue to use American Exceptionalism to continue to teach our kids fascist ideas of us being superior over others.
What. The. feth. o.O
We make all our kids in school pledge themselves to the country everyday.
Why is this a bad thing again?
So yes we are a paraniod society, and the simple fact there is so much outrage about simple background checks is more than proof enough.
What is this "simple background checks" are you talking about? We already have that. Are you talking about more stringent forms of gun controls? If so... it isn't "paranoia"...
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/12/18 16:22:06
Subject: Another school shooting today
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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SilverMK2 wrote: Spacemanvic wrote:But then again, the UK has chosen to allow themselves to be disarmed. Easy enough to do on a tiny island I suppose. Here in the US, the pesky Constitution enumerates the right of self protection against criminals.
Haha! You realise that America is pretty much the only civilised country which allows private gun ownership to any significant extent? Europe as a whole is a gun free area with a population significantly more than that of the USA. I wonder why there have only been 20 school shootings over here in the last 100 years, compared to the pretty regular school shootings in the USA? I guess you are so well protected by an ammendment to your constitution that you have not considered joining the rest of the world on gun control...
But hey, they are not my children being shot, nor is it likely that my family will be gunned down in the street, or at the shops... I don't fear that kind of thing and I don't need a gun to feel that kind of safety.
Enjoy your pristine bubble.
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