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 Musashi363 wrote:
I also say demons, because nothing says pure chaos given physical form than regiments of same looking models. Plus I dont like any of the models.

This is because the Codex is bad, not because the faction is bad.

There should be rules for customizing your Daemons to the point of insanity and beyond. Search for some demon-looking models for other companies: people should be able to take these models and find a mix of options to field them in battle.

And yes, most models are lacking the demon-feeling. They look like clowns instead of terror-inspiring. There are some exceptions though: search for the Greater Daemons and Daemon Lords from Forgeworld.

But the background is nice. And it is the background what makes a faction. The rest is just the skill of the person writing the Codex or sculpting the model.

 Musashi363 wrote:
I also say demons, because nothing says pure chaos given physical form than regiments of same looking models. Plus I dont like any of the models.

The codex is short on options, I'll give you that, but it's up to the owner of the models to convert them into better forms.
We can't expect GW to produce six different types of Bloodthirsters...

Even if you do that, they will still have the same rules.

I think it should be like this: a "generic" profile for warrior, daemonette, fat guy and horror (shooty), and then you pick a mark that changes the basic profile. So you can get Bloodletters, female-looking fast Daemonettes of Khorne, fat Butchers of Khorne slow but hard to kill and Khorne shooters. Add some do-it-yourself underpowered marks for minor gods and fluffy players and we have a proper Troop section.

Repeat for HQ, Elite, Fast, Heavy and Dedicated Transports sections.

Also, two different flavors of Daemons should be Allies of Convenience at best. And Desperate Allies for K/S and N/T. They really hate each other, they are the definition of Desperate Allies.

Dark angels in the normal codex would probably work out awesome, grav guns, and centurions.

Necrons and Tau - two bolted on factions, and badly bolted on at that!

Tau's winning. There's a shock.

I am surprised that Eccleisiarchy is slightly beating Necrons.

I would have bet ten bucks that #1 would be Tau, with a close second being Necrons.

I'd say Inquisition because, in my opinion, they could be folded into the Ecclesiarchy.

Nice to see that Chaos isn't being bashed.

Though I'm not sure why the IG even got a vote.

Space Marines third tied with Necrons.

Tau because they're the most likely to be killed off anyway along with Eldar.

Tau, They were just shoehorned in without fitting the background or fluff at all, to appeal to the manga fans to get more players.

 EVIL INC wrote:
Tau, They were just shoehorned in without fitting the background or fluff at all, to appeal to the manga fans to get more players.

My thinking exactly!

Necrons - because their fluff has always been completely stupid. Also, if you want to complain about shoehorning, see: C'Tan having a hand in just about everything ever.

Then roll all the snowflake marines into one codex. BA become Marines +DC, DA = Marines + DW/RW etc.

From a tabletop perspective, having more than one Space Marine codex is tedious and not necessary.

I've never found all too much to like about the Tau, other than that they like to sit back and shoot, which would be fun to play, but isn't very fun to play against in this edition.

I would vote "none" as different people are drawn to different races and I'm not particularly annoyed by any of the races in 40k, fluff-wise or on the tabletop (except maybe Tau or DE).

I gotta ask. What were people's opinions of the older horror model?

 StarTrotter wrote:
I gotta ask. What were people's opinions of the older horror model?

Captain giant hands looks goofy as all feth. The one with the blue horror coming out of it looks cool though. I like the current ones though.

How is this relevant to the discussion?

 da001 wrote:
I am missing a NONE option.

I would add at least 20 new factions: Adeptus Mechanicus, Adeptus Arbites, Dark Mechanicus, Kroot, Grot Rebels, Lost and the Damned, Genestealer Cult, Dogs of War (mercenaries), Exodites, Harlequins, Enslavers, Beastmen, Space Skaven, Hurd & Umbra, Squat, Chaos Squat, Adeptus Astra Telepathica, something called Index Xenos giving rules for 30 minor xeno species (such as the Rak´Gol, the Fra´al, the Thyrrus or the Zoats), something called Codex: Tau Auxiliaries for all those Tau allies we keep hearing from (such as Tarellian, Morralian, Nicassar or Hrenian) aaaaand that one faction I am unable to remember right now but I will love to see.

And subfactions: Chaos Legions, Chaos Undivided build-your-own-lesser-god style including Malal, famous regiments of the Imperial Guard, Ork clans...

You've read my mind. A Dark Mechanicus army would be Boss.

Also I hear a lot of "I don't like that, so no one should have that." going on. I personally can't stand squats and I don't miss them, but if you like squats, go for it! I won't hate on you for liking squats or bemoan that you have an army of them. Stop whining.
I want my Zoats and Slaan back! (Ok, not really, but somebody does!)

 Wilytank wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:
I gotta ask. What were people's opinions of the older horror model?

Captain giant hands looks goofy as all feth. The one with the blue horror coming out of it looks cool though. I like the current ones though.

How is this relevant to the discussion?

Criticisms that daemons don't look like proper daemons. So.ally a foolish curiosity. I admit, it was out of line from me so I will apologize for that.

I voted Tau. I actually like Anime, but the design aesthetic behind the Tau just reeks of "tacked-on me too", and is insulting to most mech-head Anime fans. If I wanted to play with Anime mechs I'd go play Armored Core or Front Mission instead....

 MWHistorian wrote:

Also I hear a lot of "I don't like that, so no one should have that." going on. I personally can't stand squats and I don't miss them, but if you like squats, go for it! I won't hate on you for liking squats or bemoan that you have an army of them. Stop whining.
I want my Zoats and Slaan back! (Ok, not really, but somebody does!)

Hear hear!

I'm throwing in a third vote for "Put Daemons back in the Chaos Marine codex where they belong"

Same. I wouldn't vote to remove Daemons, but they've never worked for me as a separate codex.

None at all. Gun to my head maybe Dark Eldar could be folded into the Eldar dex. I make jokes about Tau and loath Grey Knights but I think everyone's army has a place.

If anything for the size and scope of the 40k universe, the codex selection is too cramped and bland. I like the direction it's going with army supplements, and would love to see stuff like Rak'gol, Space Dwarves (done properly), Beastman mutants, Lost and the Damned ect. finally get their time in the sun.

Guess there is a lot more hate for the blue space cows than I thought. They aren't that bad are they? Okay Fire Warrior was pretty bad but other than that?

Tau. They feel tacked on and as stated a million times before, don't really fit into the setting.

For rules, roll all Space Marines into one Codex, but make actual fleshed out supplements for the DA, SW, BT and SWs.

If anything they need to trim down on how many imperial factions get a codex.

Yeah, I agree with the front runner: tau. Fluffwise, it's always driven me crazy that someone as narrow in scope is in the game. It's sort of like if you had a world war 2 game and one faction was the Soviet Union, and one was America, and one was Germany, and one was Japan, and one was El Salvador. Like, lolwhut?

I've also never been a fan of the gundam motif as well (it was especially painful when people rushed out and bought actual gundam models at my FLGS so that they could show up on monday with three "riptides" in their list. And no, "But this is a macross model" carries no weight with me), and, of course, they have been one of the most wretched armies to play against for many a year.

It's not to say that tau couldn't be salvaged, but they'd have to be redone, not updated. Something that plays up the guerilla people's liberation crusade angle and that gives them a way to seriously travel through space on the one hand, and an end to the risible "we're good at shooting but we suck in close combat" myth that fanbois perpetrate and GW never manages to implement correctly.

For necron I sort of agree, but it's not quite as bad. The new fluff is crummy, but the model range is okay, and the gauss thing approaches a unique style. Moving them from a slow yet teleporting invincible foot horde to just another mech army was a big mistake, though, and one that's not likely to be rectified... ever.

I also agree that tyranid are a bit tragic, but I've learned to cope with them a lot better over time. On the one hand, there are been a lot more tyranid players who have airbrushes, and that tends to fix their models a LOT. On the other, their fluff is terrible right now, but it wasn't always so. I'll link you here wherein the seeds were planted for my own minor redemption on the topic.

My dark horse candidate I'll throw in here is Dark Eldar. They come on strong with their whole "torture is the only salvation from our devils bargain with the god we accidentally made who wants to eat our souls", thing, but then it slides downhill pretty quickly. Their models were, are, and ever will be awful looking - a ham-fisted pastiche of 1980's bad guy-ness. Their huge fleet of cardboard boats is sort of annoying to play against, unless you're prepared for it, in which case it would be annoying to play as your army just instantly disintegrates. They have had different units in the past, but, with the blip of WWP prominence, they've always been pretty crappy, which means that basically every dark eldar list every has looked like some form of variation on that one list that dark eldar have been able to play.

But worst of all for me is, ironically, their fluff. It starts well, but ends with a whimper. In the end, they're just a small nuisance faction mostly divorced from the main action, and, in the end, doing nothing more than being spoilers. Hmm...

 Redbeard wrote:
Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels. Marines are Marines, and if they can wrap Templars into the main Marine dex, they can wrap these in too. All other factions are actually worth keeping.

In a way, I would like this. Even as a BA player I think that it's stupid that nearly half of the armies out there are Marines.
It would be great to see all Marines inthe following Codex: Space Marines. But we all know that GW isn't gonna do that
Marines should rather be a single faction with each having hteir own little specialities and mostly fluffy differences.

Anyway, why do people vote for Tau...? They are cool in a way and unique in 40k universe. Okay, they are a bit OP now but their last codex was form 2nd edition, they deserve having their turn on the top

Definitely Necrons. For no other reason than that they stole the Eldar's thunder. I mean, c'mon, their catch-phrase is essentially: we're ancient aliens with hyperadvanced tech just like the Eldar, only more so. Oh, but we have to be different somehow, so uuhhm, we don't have psykers. In a stupid one-upmanship way, to boot.

I didn't mind them when they were the soulless, robotic remains of a long-dead civilization with nothing left but hatred for the living (in fact, I kinda liked that concept), but now that they're suddenly sentient they add nothing to the game whatsoever.

I'm not a fan of Tau, but I've nothing against them, either.

As for the marine controversy, as much as I like my Wolves to have their own spearate codex (and they should! They were the first marine codex!), I actually think that 3rd edition more or less did it right.
One codex for general marines, and then minidexes for the divergent chapters to detail how they're different.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Nothing must be removed. If anything we need more factions, not less.
However, if I were forced to remove one, I would pick Tau, because they are stupid anime fan crap.

I like the idea, but not the anime gundam look.