Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2013/12/19 00:00:11
Subject: Games Workshop cancels all Invasions and store trips to Warhammer World
Someone - Az, MGS - please quote this so he sees it.
xruslanx wrote: Well that's the beauty of ignoring people. Nothing HMBC says is ever worth my time or attention, but I don't point this out every single time. If you think that what I'm saying is trolling or stupid, ignore it.
You're far too entertaining to ignore xru. It's not every day we get someone so blinded by their love of GW that they'll jump in to not only defend everything they do, but is also just so utterly incompetent when it comes to debating other people that each post looks like a bulleted list of logical fallacies and intellectually dishonest statements. I mean Kan does a bit of that (the endlessly defending stuff, not the logical fallacies - those are all you xru!), but Kan's a good guy and we like him.
So please xru, never stop (or do... or whatever). You're just way too much fun.
Kirasu wrote: You can tell its a cost cutting measure by the fact that they are trying to make it sound like both the customer and GW want this to end..
Why would the customer not want a field trip to Ultramarine land? Come on.. It's just GW saying "This costs us money and is fun for you..therefore it has to go"
Wait, are these "invasions" free? I assumed GW charged for them.
Yes they charged for them.
It costs GW money as they have to close the stores in said group due to (more than likely) having no cover when these invasions are. As I already said, hoisted by their own petards.
But... I'm not even sure why I'm dignifying you with a proper reply as we all know how this will go down.
Well, logically if it was profitable when cost of ticket sales > lost revenue, could it be possible that the lost revenue now exceeds the ticket sales? Or did they always lose money?
Would be great if there were some numbers on this - how many people on each trip, cost of each ticket. (Incidentally I reported your post for rudeness, please try to be polite in future. Using the phrase 'dignify with a reply' is very rude and condescending, especially when all I've done in this thread is offer a different viewpoint to your own).
But, tragically for you, this thread isn't in a vacuum, and regular posters will be more than aware of your history of "debating" points where you discard anything people offer while accusing them of failing to offer anything to support their argument simultaneously. Arguing with you is, largely, a waste of time.
Well that's the beauty of ignoring people. Nothing HMBC says is ever worth my time or attention, but I don't point this out every single time. If you think that what I'm saying is trolling or stupid, ignore it.
Regarding the *topic* I'd be hesitant to cynically call "cost cutting!" without seeing more numbers. Hell if you want an alternate explanation that satiates your oedipal hatred of Games Workshop, maybe they just aren't as popular any more? Maybe people are just losing interest in GW because they can't write rules and have crappy models, so the coach trips just aren't worth it any more. There are all sorts of possible explanations of this, sneering derisively at someone for suggesting an alternative one doesn't get anyone anywhere.
There you go, jumping to conclusions again!
I don't harbour any more hatred of GW than I do my toaster (albeit I do suspect the fether burns my breakfast on purpose sometimes) But what you fail to see through the narrow slits of the visor on that blue helmet of yours is how hard you have to twist things to make them fit your world view, when, like it or not, the "hater" view just seems to fit the facts on offer so much more neatly.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: Someone - Az, MGS - please quote this so he sees it. Done
xruslanx wrote: Well that's the beauty of ignoring people. Nothing HMBC says is ever worth my time or attention, but I don't point this out every single time. If you think that what I'm saying is trolling or stupid, ignore it.
You're far too entertaining to ignore xru. It's not every day we get someone so blinded by their love of GW that they'll jump in to not only defend everything they do, but is also just so utterly incompetent when it comes to debating other people that each post looks like a bulleted list of logical fallacies and intellectually dishonest statements. I mean Kan does a bit of that (the endlessly defending stuff, not the logical fallacies - those are all you xru!), but Kan's a good guy and we like him.
So please xru, never stop (or do... or whatever). You're just way too much fun.
At least we know if he does stop, that some other poster will be along shortly afterwards to take up the mantle!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/19 00:02:50
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
I would imagine that at least some parents would have been going along too.
I imagine they'll be downsizing the warhammer world staff at some point too, then just bring in the 'roaming' staff, or whatever you call them, for big tournament / campaign weekend days.
The numbers have to be really awful for them to see it as cost cutting. The 'Invasions' are not usually just one store. It's usually something like, "Invasion North East" or "Invasion: Scotland" so probably people going from 2 or 3 stores.
Plus, this is GW we're talking about. How awful does the income from it need to be for them to decide, "you know what. It's not even worth raising the ticket prices for this, lets just get rid of the event entirely."
There's something more going on here, I'll wager.
2013/12/19 00:05:04
Subject: Re:Games Workshop cancels all Invasions and store trips to Warhammer World
No way! I went to one literally on Sunday and I've been to several before, they were really great experiences, I've always loved going to Warhammer World and having the store arrange bus trips down there was the only practical way to visit it.
2013/12/19 00:06:26
Subject: Games Workshop cancels all Invasions and store trips to Warhammer World
xruslanx wrote: [
Well, logically if it was profitable when cost of ticket sales > lost revenue, could it be possible that the lost revenue now exceeds the ticket sales? Or did they always lose money?
Would be great if there were some numbers on this - how many people on each trip, cost of each ticket. (Incidentally I reported your post for rudeness, please try to be polite in future. Using the phrase 'dignify with a reply' is very rude and condescending, especially when all I've done in this thread is offer a different viewpoint to your own).
Well, there would also be vehicle rental (I think they hired minibuses like the GW stores that launched 'invasions' to Games Day?) and then the insurance aspect of that as well as the potential risk of taking youngsters on trips, having to have your store employees take on the whole 'in loco parentis' aspect, which, again is has the potential for nightmare litigation should anything go wrong.
Couple all that with the scaling down of staffing levels in the stores and yeah, it becomes untenable.
Are there many stores that could even do a round trip in a day? I would think there would also have to be the finding of accommodation locally so that people could stay overnight (which of course vastly increases the problem of under 18s attending as well as again increasing the costs of the trip and of insurance).
Combine that with increased fuel costs and the already mentioned points like insurance; staffing issues etc.. and I can certainly well see that such a policy just isn't in GW's interest at present.
Also with model prices being high (ok they were and always are high) it might be that many were cutting out the trip and just playing locally and spending more on the models. With a GW store already providing tables and often having generally very good models on display already I can see many at a club (esp one focused around gaming) might simply not want to group together to go for this kind of event.
Edit - ;last time I was at GWHQ a month or two back they were basically in the middle of a construction site. There was a lot of building going on around GW to do with the town and such (not GW itself) so it could be that the influence there has made it harder to bus people in/out or has added some safety concerns.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/19 00:08:18
This is great news! Now you will have more opportunities to build a relationship with your local Games™ Workshop™ Hobby™ Center™ instead of traveling to some other store!
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2013/12/19 00:07:32
Subject: Games Workshop cancels all Invasions and store trips to Warhammer World
No way! I went to one literally on Sunday and I've been to several before, they were really great experiences, I've always loved going to Warhammer World and having the store arrange bus trips down there was the only practical way to visit it.
I'd imagine it's the only way for quite a few folks to get down there. I'd also imagine those invasions were some of their more profitable days, due to folks spending big on forgeworld etc. You have to ponder the future of Warhammer World really.
I don't harbour any more hatred of GW than I do my toaster (albeit I do suspect the fether burns my breakfast on purpose sometimes) But what you fail to see through the narrow slits of the visor on that blue helmet of yours is how hard you have to twist things to make them fit your world view, when, like it or not, the "hater" view just seems to fit the facts on offer so much more neatly.
The "you" wasn't addressed at you, it was supposed to be collective. You actually aren't too bad, all things considered. But yes, there is a culture of hate on dakka, that I have literally never encountered in the real world. Just look at *any* thread about *anything* GW does. It will be immediately filled by a "consensus" that GW is crap/useless/evil. Obviously GW do plenty of stupid things but the fever pitch and general assumption of failure and incompetence is just bizarre.
I am a member of several computer game forums, none of which have the same hatred of their hobby that dakka does. Hell I'm usually defending people from the hordes of adoring fans wno refuse to accept any critisism of the game whatsoever. And yet despite my criticisms of GW (codexes including over-powered but hideoulsy expensive units [vendetta], certain boxes being grossly too expensive, content being cut from codexes to be released as a 'data slate', over-zealous enforcement of IP, over priced terrain, a lack of bitz service, White Dwarf being absolute crap), I'm still labled as a "white knight" simply because I don't instinctively have a negative opinion of everything GW does.
Whatever, you guys are clearly not interested in any discussion - since apparently, according to you, my 'behavior' in other threads means it's okay to disregard anything I say, ever. And that's cool, I'm going to go play Civ IV. Peace.
The plural of codex is codexes.
2013/12/19 00:10:24
Subject: Games Workshop cancels all Invasions and store trips to Warhammer World
xruslanx wrote: Well that's the beauty of ignoring people. Nothing HMBC says is ever worth my time or attention, but I don't point this out every single time.
Apparently the forum rules about "be polite" aren't worth your time or attention either?
xruslanx wrote: Well, logically if it was profitable when cost of ticket sales > lost revenue, could it be possible that the lost revenue now exceeds the ticket sales? Or did they always lose money?
Like GW you don't seem to understand the idea of losing money on a promotional event/item/etc so that you can boost sales elsewhere.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2013/12/19 00:12:20
Subject: Games Workshop cancels all Invasions and store trips to Warhammer World
azreal13 wrote: But, tragically for you, this thread isn't in a vacuum, and regular posters will be more than aware of your history of "debating" points where you discard anything people offer while accusing them of failing to offer anything to support their argument simultaneously. Arguing with you is, largely, a waste of time.
Oh the irony.
A month after I join Dakka Dakka, I got so fed up with reading xruslanx's trolling and derailing threads that I add him to my Ignore list.
But I still have to read his pointless comments and circular arguments, because people are arguing with him and quoting him.
Please, either use some common sense and just Ignore him so that threads can stay on topic and not devolve into Dakka Dakka v xRuslanx, or stop quoting everything he says so the people who have decided to stop paying attention to him aren't forced to read his comments regardless.
At this rate, we might as well rename this thread Dakka Dakka v
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/19 00:28:55
2013/12/19 00:22:45
Subject: Re:Games Workshop cancels all Invasions and store trips to Warhammer World
No way! I went to one literally on Sunday and I've been to several before, they were really great experiences, I've always loved going to Warhammer World and having the store arrange bus trips down there was the only practical way to visit it.
I would love to hear more about these trips, and they would be delightfully on topic as it's clear several posters have never been to one. Pictures also if you have them.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2013/12/19 00:25:28
Subject: Games Workshop cancels all Invasions and store trips to Warhammer World
I'd love to work myself up into a lather over this but frankly I never heard of either Invasions or store trips. I figured GW was already cancelling trips to their stores for frivolous reasons like buying stuff by switching to the one man store model and slowly moving everything over to direct only.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/19 00:26:40
2013/12/19 00:30:54
Subject: Re:Games Workshop cancels all Invasions and store trips to Warhammer World
No way! I went to one literally on Sunday and I've been to several before, they were really great experiences, I've always loved going to Warhammer World and having the store arrange bus trips down there was the only practical way to visit it.
I was there, having a game, by christ you guys were noisy!
Ot, I'm an idealist and I have learnt that things rarely work out how I'd like them to, but here goes anyway.
Cost cutting = less lost profit = less overheads = potential to reduce product prices without sacrificing on quality! HUZZAH!!
kitch102 wrote: Cost cutting = less lost profit = less overheads = potential to reduce product prices without sacrificing on quality! HUZZAH!!
The problem with that hope is that GW seems to need all this cost cutting just to keep their profits at the current level. So you can expect to continue getting less for the same price until GW's IP is bought by a better company.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2013/12/19 00:49:03
Subject: Re:Games Workshop cancels all Invasions and store trips to Warhammer World
I'm guessing this is all too cut costs, as I'm doubtful this makes GW much money
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/19 01:10:16
Little orphans in the snow
With nowhere to call a home
Start their singing, singing
Waiting through the summertime
To thaw your hearts in wintertime
That's why they're singing, singing
2013/12/19 01:05:29
Subject: Games Workshop cancels all Invasions and store trips to Warhammer World
Could GW not just make a logistical leap and make invasions both rarefied and more regional. That is to say fewer events with a higher number of stores involved and with a minimum about of people for the given event. Wouldnt that satisfy both sides?
2013/12/19 01:09:25
Subject: Re:Games Workshop cancels all Invasions and store trips to Warhammer World
No way! I went to one literally on Sunday and I've been to several before, they were really great experiences, I've always loved going to Warhammer World and having the store arrange bus trips down there was the only practical way to visit it.
I would love to hear more about these trips, and they would be delightfully on topic as it's clear several posters have never been to one. Pictures also if you have them.
They're (or rather, they were) 600 doubles/1200 singles days where after a long, tiring coach journey (from where I live each one lasted about 5-6 hours) you walk into WHW and get to play three games, with some good quality food, Bugmans and the spectacle of visiting every display model GW uses in WD, on their site and box art in the flesh up close in the miniatures hall, which I'll say is simply stunning for that reason alone; before you consider the ~7x7 ft massive diorama in the middle with a Company of Space Wolves fending off a Tyranid horde, complete with an absurdly large fortress, chasm and bridge.
The individual boards and scenery on each one are all expertly painted (unfortunately the numerous City/Eldar maiden world/other gorgeous boards that are without a doubt the best 40k boards I've ever seen aren't used for the tournament ), balanced and interesting to play on. The one I went to on Sunday was a 600 doubles tournament and it was nuts.
Seriously, this is upsetting because at least half of the tournaments I go to each year have been WHW trips for the past 3-4 years, and I'm not sugarcoating the truth when I say that they were the most exciting most of the time.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/19 01:16:57
2013/12/19 01:29:53
Subject: Re:Games Workshop cancels all Invasions and store trips to Warhammer World
Regarding the *topic* I'd be hesitant to cynically call "cost cutting!" without seeing more numbers. Hell if you want an alternate explanation that satiates your oedipal hatred of Games Workshop, maybe they just aren't as popular any more? Maybe people are just losing interest in GW because they can't write rules and have crappy models, so the coach trips just aren't worth it any more. There are all sorts of possible explanations of this, sneering derisively at someone for suggesting an alternative one doesn't get anyone anywhere.
I just cannot leave this alone.
You are saying GW is my Mum and I have carnal desires for my mother? It all makes sense now, how she embarrasses me, never cuddles me except in public, how she lies to me when telling me bad news, and sometimes out of the blue smacks me across the back of the head for no apparent reason.
"Turn over Mum , I want a second go"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/19 02:13:56
Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."
Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"
Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST"
2013/12/19 02:26:09
Subject: Re:Games Workshop cancels all Invasions and store trips to Warhammer World
