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 H.B.M.C. wrote:

But at the same time it just looks like another cost-cutting measure from a company that's quickly running out of things to cut.

You might get a good price for your old x-box from the pawn shop, but selling everything you own to buy your girlfriend gifts instead of getting a job is still a bad idea.

That is properly sad news.
Invasions were a great event series.

Although now the shops are nearly all down to 1 staff member, who is left to supervise/corral a coach load of gamers? Think we should have seen this coming after what happened with games day . . .

Are GW losing money then? Huge falling profits?

This is a genuine question, I have no idea

The Division Of Joy wrote:
Are GW losing money then? Huge falling profits?

This is a genuine question, I have no idea

They are still making profits, but they have falling or flat sales offset by large cuts in their expenses.

 Polonius wrote:
Generally, the discussion is about if the business decision is wise, though. Meaning, even as a commerciial, bottom line decision, does the decision make sense?

Given GW's dwindling sales and market share, questioning the decision making of their managment is probably valid.

Yeah, except at this point, GW's management can be trusted to make very short-sighted decisions very often. It's depressing, it's frustrating, but have we really not gotten used to it yet?

The Division Of Joy wrote:
Are GW losing money then? Huge falling profits?

This is a genuine question, I have no idea

Not losing money, no. But their revenue and profits have been flat for a number of years, despite fairly compelling evidence that the wargaming market as a whole is growing, and a number of price increases and cost cutting measures.

So while they're not even close to being in any sort of financial danger, it is a fair assessment to say that their piece of the pie is getting smaller, and their reaction to this is to become more insular and controlling.

The Division Of Joy wrote:
Are GW losing money then? Huge falling profits?

This is a genuine question, I have no idea

Profits are steady. But they are raising prices and cutting costs. Meaning the customer base is not expanding. There is no growth.

Well then surely people that want to keep playing the GW based rules of the wider wargaming hobby, should be pleased that the company is cutting expenditure where it thinks it can? And I guess the natural reaction to a crowded marketplace is to try and tightly control what share they have Azreal? This might be me simplifying it slightly.

The only worry will be when the company starts losing money I guess. Otherwise it's probably good that they are 'getting their house in order' to set the company out for the future.

The Division Of Joy wrote:
Well then surely people that want to keep playing the GW based rules of the wider wargaming hobby, should be pleased that the company is cutting expenditure where it thinks it can? And I guess the natural reaction to a crowded marketplace is to try and tightly control what share they have Azreal? This might be me simplifying it slightly.

The only worry will be when the company starts losing money I guess. Otherwise it's probably good that they are 'getting their house in order' to set the company out for the future.

You are misunderstanding. The wargaming miniature market isn't crowded, all evidence points that it is growing.

If GW is having no growth in a growing market, then that means that their market share is decreasing. If you add the price increases and cost cutting to the picture (and still end up with no growth), then that means that not only is their market share decreasing, their player base must be decreasing as well which in turn means fewer people for GW players to play against and THAT is a valid concern for every GW fan.

Despite all of this, GW apparently isn't taking any steps to regrow their player base, they are just trying to increase their profit margin from those that remain...

The Division Of Joy wrote:
Well then surely people that want to keep playing the GW based rules of the wider wargaming hobby, should be pleased that the company is cutting expenditure where it thinks it can? And I guess the natural reaction to a crowded marketplace is to try and tightly control what share they have Azreal? This might be me simplifying it slightly.

The only worry will be when the company starts losing money I guess. Otherwise it's probably good that they are 'getting their house in order' to set the company out for the future.

I guess it boils down to the methods used to exert control. GW are in a position to compete on price and quality that must be the envy of any other company in the sector. They could simply be the biggest by positioning themselves as the first choice for quality and price. They could divert resources into developing Warhammer into the most playable system out there, supported by the nicest, most affordable models and a readily accessible network of shops and a large, global, network of enthusiastic hobbyists to play against.

Instead, they cut staff in stores, leading to the removal of services which might not have had any direct financial benefit, but undoubtedly had huge intangible ones (such as in store gaming) instigate aggressive, heavy handed legal action, which has cost them more in terms of finance and goodwill than they could ever have hoped to recover if they'd been successful (Chapterhouse) threatened the online community for daring to get enthusiastic about a product before they said they could (40K Radio) and manipulated their relationship with third party retailers in order to achieve goals they wouldn't be able to through legal channels (Wayland/BoW) or simply to give themselves an edge (numerous stories of lost/incomplete/withheld orders when nearby GW stores have stock freely available, or selling things direct only because reasons.) Then factor in their continuing retreat from any sort of communication with their customer base, unless under very tightly controlled, heavily moderated conditions, and you just have a massive mess.

There are many ways to run a company, but I feel the way GW appear to tackle things is just the worst way, and they are squandering the opportunity to be something awesome by being petty and manipulative.

Just posted by my local GW, GW Metro Centre

***Important Announcement***

To let all of our customers know that Games Workshop will no longer be running Warhammer World Invasion events, we understand that many of you have enjoyed these events in the past and hoped to attend these in the future, to this we apologize for any inconvenience caused. We must clarify that this does not have any affect on other advertised Warhammer World events such as Throne Of Skulls, these events will be going forward as normal.

This does however give us a new and exciting opportunity to revolutionize the manner in which we run events in store, so as we take time to consider what events we will now be running, we would like to take the time to hear from you. This is a fantastic opportunity for you to seriously shape the manner in which Games Workshop Events will take going forward in your store.

Not sure why my post got deleted, people seem determined to talk about this in terms of GW's wider cost-cutting business strategy, and that strategy has regularly been identified as one of making the company more attractive to buyers, so it seemed pretty relevant.

Our local GW (which is about the size of a walk in closet, or feels that way) is a one employee store, and is closed 2 days of the week, is that not how they do it in the UK too? If this really is all about having to close the shop I would figure they could run it on a day it is closed anyway. I can't imagine they do them often enough in an area that the employee would throw a fit, I know that most retail places hire on the understanding that extra hours may be necessary at times.

 derek wrote:
If this really is all about having to close the shop I would figure they could run it on a day it is closed anyway.

Good point. Although, my local store is closed monday-wednesday, so I guess that's probably a common pattern, and I guess most people are in school or work those days, which makes the whole thing a bit more of a challenge than doing it at the weekend.

Monday and Tuesday here. I figure it's a day trip and people could plan in advance for being out of school and work. Still, that is only if the cancellation is actually because the shops have to close during these trips.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And who wants to argue against a sock-puppet anyway?

Sock puppet account. Is he that guy with the blue man avatar?

Forget his name but I think I saw him in Vegas once.

That's the one, and at least two others before that. Has openly admitted that he deliberately presents a contrary view just to get a rise out of people. As HBMC has said it's kind of amusing if you know about it, but the problem is that someone un-knowing comes onto the forum, responds aggressively and then they are the ones who end up getting red ink or a posting ban. Which I don't think is very fair.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Honestly I don't think this is a bad business decision, and I agree with Polonius that we might be overstating just how much of a "loss leader" such an Invasion programme might have been.

But at the same time it just looks like another cost-cutting measure from a company that's quickly running out of things to cut.

I would be prepared to give the benefit of the doubt and say that maybe it just wasn't feasible with the low staff levels. Same reason that Games Days aren't what they used to be, tournament support has been dropped etc. There just aren't enough boots on the ground to make it happen effectively.

But, the other way of looking at it is as yet another snub to the most loyal fans who are prepared to travel far to the GW 'Mecca'. Cancelling events that people have already bought tickets to as well probably doesn't help either.

 Pacific wrote:
That's the one, and at least two others before that. Has openly admitted that he deliberately presents a contrary view just to get a rise out of people. As HBMC has said it's kind of amusing if you know about it, but the problem is that someone un-knowing comes onto the forum, responds aggressively and then they are the ones who end up getting red ink or a posting ban. Which I don't think is very fair.

Urging people to add him to their Ignore lists everytime he trolls and derails a thread might help.

I've only been a member for two months and spoke to him just once, but I've already become so irritated by his trolling to the point that every thread he comments in becomes xRuslanx V Dakka Dakka, that I've added him to my list.

People arguing with him and quoting his comments doesn't exactly help though...

 Pacific wrote:
That's the one, and at least two others before that. Has openly admitted that he deliberately presents a contrary view just to get a rise out of people. As HBMC has said it's kind of amusing if you know about it, but the problem is that someone un-knowing comes onto the forum, responds aggressively and then they are the ones who end up getting red ink or a posting ban. Which I don't think is very fair.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Honestly I don't think this is a bad business decision, and I agree with Polonius that we might be overstating just how much of a "loss leader" such an Invasion programme might have been.

But at the same time it just looks like another cost-cutting measure from a company that's quickly running out of things to cut.

I would be prepared to give the benefit of the doubt and say that maybe it just wasn't feasible with the low staff levels. Same reason that Games Days aren't what they used to be, tournament support has been dropped etc. There just aren't enough boots on the ground to make it happen effectively.

But, the other way of looking at it is as yet another snub to the most loyal fans who are prepared to travel far to the GW 'Mecca'. Cancelling events that people have already bought tickets to as well probably doesn't help either.

I swear he was Mr Mystery before that. Getting people banned by antagonizing them is a pretty low act imho.

Trolling must raise his self esteem somehow. Devils advocate is one thing but being a D ick is another, so much wasted energy that could be put to better use.

So much injustice in the world and he decides to champion the GW cause? (Me thinks he works there)

As to the original post. It doesn't really effect me but it is sad that they drop this none the less.

When I do visit England the GW tour is on my to do list, along with eating at Heston Blumenthal restaurant and visiting castles, Scotland and anything else Tripadvisor says is good lol.

I suspect we might have seen the last of xruslanx in this current guise. Rest assured the Mods know who he is, and as added protection, I spotted the similarities weeks ago (HBMC can confirm this) so, much like our own little mini-Mandelbaum, he may well rise again, but we will be waiting...

Of course, he might choose to stick to his guns this time, and if so, I, along with several others, will enjoy dismantling his poorly informed, poorly expressed, poorly structured "arguments" for sport until the whole thing spins around again.

Plus this board always needs a bit of entertainment, and I don't wanna pick on Kan any more.

You two make me laugh a lot. Along with Pacific you are my favorite posters.

I'm going to send you both a friend request

 Ouze wrote:
Those trips sound to me like a lot of fun.

I don't imagine I will ever get to visit Warhammer World or have a trip to Bugmans bar :/

You are really not missing much; I went a couple of times when I was in Nottingham for courses.

The games hall is just a big room with lots of tables (the last time I visited an Epic tourmanet was underway) ,a cheap looking 'gothic' facade and an ajoining GW store. Bugmans is basically a small pub that serves generic food and beer that happens to have a decent selection of boardgames (for a pub). The only good bit is upstairs where they have the studios various armies on display but as they have feautured heavily in GW's various publications you will have seen them all before.

If your in the area its probably worth going (it is afterall free) but its not something that I would recommend visiting for its own sake.

 Necro wrote:
You two make me laugh a lot. Along with Pacific you are my favorite posters.

I'm going to send you both a friend request

It's all in the wrist.

Seriously, glad to see at least some people read what I write in the appropriate tone, a mite too many get a smidge too serious on here, and the opinions a few have offered about me on the sole basis of what I write would be insulting if they weren't so far off the mark as to be delightfully hilarious.

Nah I love your work. Your posts are well thought out and scream of an educated mind

Shame you don't live closer I'd hit you up for a game.

On a side note I'm am always leaving off an "s" somewhere, hence the edits lol.

 azreal13 wrote:
... a mite too many get a smidge too serious on here...

Ain't that the truth...

 Polonius wrote:
Generally, the discussion is about if the business decision is wise, though. Meaning, even as a commerciial, bottom line decision, does the decision make sense?

Given GW's dwindling sales and market share, questioning the decision making of their managment is probably valid.

In this case, I think a lot of folks are over valuing the loss leader aspect of these trips. Meaning, while they might result in people buying stuff, I wonder if there is an actual increase, or is it that maybe people that are keen to tour Warhammer World are going to buy more GW regardless?

Also, regardless of the validity of a decision, if it hurts consumers, I think consumers can, you know, kvetch a bit about it.

I think part of the fundamental problem is that while it might now make good financial sense to eliminate the service, that it makes such good financial sense at this point it time has arguably been influenced by not-so-wise decisions in the past, such as one man stores.

It is a further symptom of an ongoing problem, or can easily be perceived as one, which is bad enough when it comes to consumer confidence and goodwill. GW does not have the sort of healthy reputation that would allow the company to effectively spin this decision.

In short, 'good' decision or no, it makes GW look bad and there's not much GW can do about that given its present market position. GW does not have the robust goodwill or healthy financial position to, for example, announce a cancellation of the service, candidly explain the reasoning for it, and explain to customers how it will be replacing this service with something that will be of greater benefit to them.

Consequently, all we have is a pretty bland notification and apology. It is easily chalked up on the growing list of ways in which GW is reducing the value of its products. What I find mind-boggling is how such instances as the one under discussion and other types of bad press seem to come with the damning regularity of Snowden leaks. It has been like this for well more than a year.

weeble1000 wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
Generally, the discussion is about if the business decision is wise, though. Meaning, even as a commerciial, bottom line decision, does the decision make sense?

Given GW's dwindling sales and market share, questioning the decision making of their managment is probably valid.

In this case, I think a lot of folks are over valuing the loss leader aspect of these trips. Meaning, while they might result in people buying stuff, I wonder if there is an actual increase, or is it that maybe people that are keen to tour Warhammer World are going to buy more GW regardless?

Also, regardless of the validity of a decision, if it hurts consumers, I think consumers can, you know, kvetch a bit about it.

I think part of the fundamental problem is that while it might now make good financial sense to eliminate the service, that it makes such good financial sense at this point it time has arguably been influenced by not-so-wise decisions in the past, such as one man stores.

It is a further symptom of an ongoing problem, or can easily be perceived as one, which is bad enough when it comes to consumer confidence and goodwill. GW does not have the sort of healthy reputation that would allow the company to effectively spin this decision.

In short, 'good' decision or no, it makes GW look bad and there's not much GW can do about that given its present market position. GW does not have the robust goodwill or healthy financial position to, for example, announce a cancellation of the service, candidly explain the reasoning for it, and explain to customers how it will be replacing this service with something that will be of greater benefit to them.

Consequently, all we have is a pretty bland notification and apology. It is easily chalked up on the growing list of ways in which GW is reducing the value of its products. What I find mind-boggling is how such instances as the one under discussion and other types of bad press seem to come with the damning regularity of Snowden leaks. It has been like this for well more than a year.

My personal belief is some or all of the behaviour comes from an attempt by Kirby to drag the company to the point where he can launch his golden parachute. Much easier to wield the hatchet than put effort into building up customer goodwill and leading the market, that gak be hard

I feel that GW's biggest problem at present (and for awhile) is the lack of people playing the game period. Finding "GOOD MATURE" people to play against is getting harder and harder in Oz. As has been said by many others, their market share is shrinking. Closing things that support the gaming hobby and enthusing people about your product is a mistake. Like withdrawing support to tournaments that demand WYSIWYG and drive your sales. All the while prizes and expenses related to this are deductible as a tax write off and I can't understand why any business would relinquish this? No really why would any business let this go it is insane.

While I love the painting aspect of the hobby, all my old gaming buddies are not playing anymore and have moved on. Beer and pretzel games are great with mates, but going to a club and getting curb stomped by riptide spam is a waste of time for me (Also no beer and pretzels there).

I am more sentimental and have fond memories of games gone by to bail and yet getting a game is elusive. I want this company to succeed however they seem hellbent on driving the company to smaller and smaller markets. I hate golf with a passion and would rather spend my days with mates playing games, than on the green (sorry to people who dig golf, its just not my kind of scene).

Forgeworld stuff is on par with GW's prices (Yes I know its the same company) and their embargo has really hurt the Australian market in my opinion. If GW would embrace the internet and work with independent local game store rather than drive them out of business when they identify a profitable market then so much the better. The days of running stores in malls with crazy high rents to get kids in for a one off purchase to be recycled on the ebay market are long gone. Local games shops do more to promote their product through self preservation than their stores ever could.

I have seen posters say forget the Australian market before however: in days gone by Australia has been a very lucrative market for them and could be again easily with a sensible approach.

The HHH Hobby is shrinking, not growing down here. Now as someone that understands the investment market, I understand the need to sure up the share price and offer dividends to retain investors as dividends are all the rage at the moment in the current climate. However this plan has a limited life and Kirby better pull the cord on the golden parachute soon or he will miss his chance to dump his stock. The GW stock is poison to a long term portfolio (No this is the opinion of many analysts not just mine). They are at the bone and it is now a gamble to hold for a buyout or lose points in the death of a thousand cuts.

Now many may disagree with me on what I have posted above because of their passion for the hobby however do your own in-depth research and then tell me this is a growing company.
I love the GW brand and universe however at the moment their most valuable product is their IP.

P.S. Thanks H.B.M.C and Pacific love your posts

It can also be amazingly hard to reverse a bad decision.

It is also amazing how often that a company, rather than unmake a bad decision, will create numerous work arounds - to keep the system working without removing the bad decision.

Even if the work arounds are harder than merely changing back to the earlier methods.

Part of that has to do with people not wanting to get saddled with the blame, and part of that has to do with people wanting to make the system work.

As the koala says - "You want to know the real definition of a conspiracy? One guy makes a mistake, and six guys clean it up."

And it gets worse when a whole lot of decisions are made at the same time - trying to figure out which ones made the kitten go asplody....

The Auld Grump, even if the bad decision is found it is usually too late for the kitten....