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LightKing wrote:
so in terms primarchs=marines=sisters.... when weapons are involved

Well, when ranged weapons are involved. I think a Primarch would probably beat a marine or sister if both of them had broken lead pipes or something.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:

LightKing wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Being able to shoot someone in the face with a meltagun does not make someone "equal" to another person in combat.

If Bruce Lee and I were going to fight (assuming he was still alive and all that, of course), I am laughably out-classed by Bruce Lee in hand to hand combat.

I do, however, own a shotgun. So I can kill Bruce Lee from 75 yards away without breaking a sweat, because bullets beat kung fu.

Firepower is, as mentioned previously, a great equalizer. I don't need to be faster, stronger, or tougher than you if the weapon I have in my hands can disintegrate you instantly.

i meant close combat..... you think a battle sister could beat angron in close combat

using the "firepower=great equalizer" is a pathetic excuse...... primarchs can use the same weapons if want


the fact is in close combat, H2H, melee a primarch destroys a sister

Well of course a Primarch wins in close combat, no one said otherwise. What we are saying is that anyone who is lucky enough to stick a melta gun down anyones throat and pull the trigger, that bugger is dead, Primarch or not. If someone gets a direct hit with a thunder hammer onto an unserspecting primarch he is down for the count, but probably not dead. Primarchs aren't invincible, if one is on planet when it blows up he is dead, if he gets an alpha plus level psyker angry he is dead, if he takes a power klaw repeatedly to the head he is dead. Live with it

what? Angron has mowed marines down, who most likely had weapons shooting at him......

When weapons are involved it all comes down to luck. I've known plenty of highly trained soldiers killed by some farmer in a Third-world hellhole armed with a forty-year-old AK-47.

That's not luck, that's superior soviet technology.

 Weltenwolf wrote:
That's not luck, that's superior soviet technology.

Exalted. .. I know you're not serious, but part of the beauty of the AK-47 is that a third-world-country farmer with a gun older than him can still use it.

This X=Y because of *insert trivial reason here* line of reasoning in these topics is ridiculous. It's like saying a tank is the equivalent of a peasant, because that peasant might possibly have a RPG.

You can't just go off spouting out that sisters / Space Marines / the easter bunny are stronger than primarchs / the emperor / Duke Nukem, because there will always be certain conditions.

For example :

If BAMF goes hand to hand with *insert sacrifice here* = Primarch wins

If *insert sacrifice here* has a BFG = *insert sacrifice here* wins

If BAMF is fully armed and goes against 1000 *insert sacrifice here* = BAMF wins

If BAMF is arse naked and stoned out of his mind and goes against 1000 *insert sacrifice here* = *insert sacrifice here* wins.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Weltenwolf wrote:
That's not luck, that's superior soviet technology.

Exalted. .. I know you're not serious, but part of the beauty of the AK-47 is that a third-world-country farmer with a gun older than him can still use it.

wasn't the ak-47 a blatant rip off of a german design though?

40 year old AK-47 vs Be'lakor.......I'm kidding

LightKing wrote:
wasn't the ak-47 a blatant rip off of a german design though?

The Sturmgewehr 44.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Weltenwolf wrote:
That's not luck, that's superior soviet technology.

Exalted. .. I know you're not serious, but part of the beauty of the AK-47 is that a third-world-country farmer with a gun older than him can still use it.

I'm 50% serious. The AK is a superior design in it's ease of fabrication & use, it's longevity and the punch it packs. A wonderful weapon, it's just a shame that everybody around the world including children is running around with one and shooting each other.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:

LightKing wrote:
wasn't the ak-47 a blatant rip off of a german design though?

The Sturmgewehr 44.

Yeah, MP43/StG44.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
but part of the beauty of the AK-47 is that a third-world-country farmer with a gun older than him can still use it.

Well, that's the whole thing with guns. And crossbows before that. It didn't take years to make a random peasant a proficient user like with a bow or sword, he could be trained in days or a few weeks. Hell, the pope himself tried to make Europeans quit using the crossbow against fellow christians and only use it on pagans. Knights were getting moved down by mooks and rebelling peasants. A gun really is a great equalizer - I have no chance against a MA master in close combat but if I shoot him before he gets there he's just as dead as if I killed him with my bare hands. And if I win I can tell everyone why it was such a great honorable victory!

If she shot him in the head, sure.
Hand to hand combat? No chance in hell.

Why are primarchs so underestimated these days?

 Lord Spartacus wrote:
If she shot him in the head, sure.
Hand to hand combat? No chance in hell.

Why are primarchs so underestimated these days?

Kick em in the nads!

All the people saying that the AK-47 is a blatant rip off- it really isn't.

The rip-off comes from the basic design, e.g. the gas-piston operation being on of the barrel. It's basically the same design possessed by things like the G3 and the SA-80.

The major difference, and part of the reason the AK-47 is so amazing, is a high tolerance within its machine parts.

EDIT: Admittedly the SA-80 is a bullpup, but in the 'gas-piston-above-barrel' category, it's fine.

Primarchs have survived getting shot at by Titans and have been hit by powerfists and point blank shots from blastmasters (One of Fulgrim's captains shot him with his blastmaster from a few feet away. Fulgrim tanked it and disintegrated one of the captains with a punch. Another captain in terminator armor punched him in the face after shooting him in the mouth with a sonic blaster, it did nothing). Angron survived getting buried under thousands of tons of rubble. Twice. Guilliman survived a blast from a starship that vaporized the bridge he was standing in and floated around in space for hours with no helmet on. Fulgrim was shot by a sniper rifle where the bullet hit in one ear and exited out the other side behind the other ear- he healed from it within hours.

So, no. A Cannoness would just die against a primarch, 10/10. Someone who isn't a Primarch needs either a phaseblade or psychic powers to defeat a Primarch.

Cue the whining about Black Library.

Spetulhu wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
but part of the beauty of the AK-47 is that a third-world-country farmer with a gun older than him can still use it.

Well, that's the whole thing with guns. And crossbows before that. It didn't take years to make a random peasant a proficient user like with a bow or sword, he could be trained in days or a few weeks. Hell, the pope himself tried to make Europeans quit using the crossbow against fellow christians and only use it on pagans. Knights were getting moved down by mooks and rebelling peasants. A gun really is a great equalizer - I have no chance against a MA master in close combat but if I shoot him before he gets there he's just as dead as if I killed him with my bare hands. And if I win I can tell everyone why it was such a great honorable victory!

^ This dude/dudette right here, they get it.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Primarchs have survived getting shot at by Titans and have been hit by powerfists and point blank shots from blastmasters (One of Fulgrim's captains shot him with his blastmaster from a few feet away. Fulgrim tanked it and disintegrated one of the captains with a punch. Another captain in terminator armor punched him in the face after shooting him in the mouth with a sonic blaster, it did nothing). Angron survived getting buried under thousands of tons of rubble. Twice. Guilliman survived a blast from a starship that vaporized the bridge he was standing in and floated around in space for hours with no helmet on. Fulgrim was shot by a sniper rifle where the bullet hit in one ear and exited out the other side behind the other ear- he healed from it within hours.

So, no. A Cannoness would just die against a primarch, 10/10. Someone who isn't a Primarch needs either a phaseblade or psychic powers to defeat a Primarch.

Cue the whining about Black Library.

thank you....

Oh i get it, you really should remove the question mark and change is to Isn't in the thread title. You obviously only want people to agree with you, and will ignore other peoples opinions no matter what we say. I simply don;t like Primarchs in general, they are far to powerful. Guilliman being out in space and not dieing is ridiculous, his blood would expand in his vains and his head would explode, but aparantly plot armour also effects vains.

My point is no one is (Or at least, should be) invincible, so that would include Primarchs. And with how Melta's are discribed in Black Libary books, if you stick that down the gullet of a Raging Primarch and pull the trigger, it should atomize their entire body. But as said, plot armor>Logic

LightKing wrote:
how am i trolling.... some of you are 40k fans and yet are saying sisters are equal to primarchs in combat, i can accept that they are = to some extend with marines, but primarchs come on

Nobody is saying they could go toe to toe with a primarch in single combat. The point she was making is that the weaponry is so ridiculously powerful that all it would take is one solid hit from a meltagun from a Sororitas or a Guardsman or even a scared civilian to incapacitate or even kill a primarch. You're an American, think of it like the American football saying, "Any given Sunday".

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Oh i get it, you really should remove the question mark and change is to Isn't in the thread title. You obviously only want people to agree with you, and will ignore other peoples opinions no matter what we say. I simply don;t like Primarchs in general, they are far to powerful. Guilliman being out in space and not dieing is ridiculous, his blood would expand in his vains and his head would explode, but aparantly plot armour also effects vains.

My point is no one is (Or at least, should be) invincible, so that would include Primarchs. And with how Melta's are discribed in Black Libary books, if you stick that down the gullet of a Raging Primarch and pull the trigger, it should atomize their entire body. But as said, plot armor>Logic

Actually, he doesn't have a question mark in the title.

LightKing wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Primarchs have survived getting shot at by Titans and have been hit by powerfists and point blank shots from blastmasters (One of Fulgrim's captains shot him with his blastmaster from a few feet away. Fulgrim tanked it and disintegrated one of the captains with a punch. Another captain in terminator armor punched him in the face after shooting him in the mouth with a sonic blaster, it did nothing). Angron survived getting buried under thousands of tons of rubble. Twice. Guilliman survived a blast from a starship that vaporized the bridge he was standing in and floated around in space for hours with no helmet on. Fulgrim was shot by a sniper rifle where the bullet hit in one ear and exited out the other side behind the other ear- he healed from it within hours.

So, no. A Cannoness would just die against a primarch, 10/10. Someone who isn't a Primarch needs either a phaseblade or psychic powers to defeat a Primarch.

Cue the whining about Black Library.

thank you....

Please understand, if you look at it that way, that is fine. I too regard primarchs as on another level compared to all human forces. Granted, It's because my favorite is probably an alpha plus so when I look at it.... well yeah. And then some brutish wolf beating a man even distracted arguably makes them pretty mighty which then snowballs into the rest. The thing though is this is just me. 40k fluff has it so that everything is cannon. Is the tale of the primarchs canon? The tales of men under fire? An unreliable narrator speaking of the past? The 40k world blesses you with the freedom to ignore much of the fluff. Heck, quite a few look at 40k as not as grimdark as others whilst others regard it as hell where guardsman are pathetic weaklings that just toss more and more bodies into the fire and that is all they really are whilst marines are gods among men. In one book, a marine will march through everything and scoff at eery las shot whilst in another 10 marines can be downed by 20 guardsmen and 1v1 a guardsman can slay a terminator. We all like 40k, sometimes we can get at one another's throat but that is much like anything else. 40k permits you to see the world how you fit and pick the fluff you prefer. That being said, always remember that not everybody looks at guardsman, marines, eldar, and even primarchs the same. In some fluff, primarchs can crush mountains, can slaughter millions like they are jokes, survive crashing from space, evaporate foes with punches, and many more ludicrous things such as taking a plasma shot from a titan or barel holding back a titan's stomp all the while flying around and snapping the back of one of the mightier servants of khorne's back twice. Yet in other fluff a primarch is mighty but not to such a level. A lucky shot can pick them off just as easily as any other and primarchs fall to ordinary men from a stray bullet. Don't rage or gripe with others when they see the world differently then you. Each one is fit to their own sight, their own vision.

The world of 40k is a place where history might be a lie. Tales of thousands of years ago could be true, overstated, or perhaps even understated. Even as each BL book comeso ut, one knows not who writes the books and for what reasons. Read them as literal fact, read them as a tale to children to scare or entertain them. An internet forum that has spun something simple into something dramatic or made something horrific a joke. That's the world of 40k, where everything is cannon but not necessarily everything is true.

 StarTrotter wrote:

LightKing wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Primarchs have survived getting shot at by Titans and have been hit by powerfists and point blank shots from blastmasters (One of Fulgrim's captains shot him with his blastmaster from a few feet away. Fulgrim tanked it and disintegrated one of the captains with a punch. Another captain in terminator armor punched him in the face after shooting him in the mouth with a sonic blaster, it did nothing). Angron survived getting buried under thousands of tons of rubble. Twice. Guilliman survived a blast from a starship that vaporized the bridge he was standing in and floated around in space for hours with no helmet on. Fulgrim was shot by a sniper rifle where the bullet hit in one ear and exited out the other side behind the other ear- he healed from it within hours.

So, no. A Cannoness would just die against a primarch, 10/10. Someone who isn't a Primarch needs either a phaseblade or psychic powers to defeat a Primarch.

Cue the whining about Black Library.

thank you....

Please understand, if you look at it that way, that is fine. I too regard primarchs as on another level compared to all human forces. Granted, It's because my favorite is probably an alpha plus so when I look at it.... well yeah. And then some brutish wolf beating a man even distracted arguably makes them pretty mighty which then snowballs into the rest. The thing though is this is just me. 40k fluff has it so that everything is cannon. Is the tale of the primarchs canon? The tales of men under fire? An unreliable narrator speaking of the past? The 40k world blesses you with the freedom to ignore much of the fluff. Heck, quite a few look at 40k as not as grimdark as others whilst others regard it as hell where guardsman are pathetic weaklings that just toss more and more bodies into the fire and that is all they really are whilst marines are gods among men. In one book, a marine will march through everything and scoff at eery las shot whilst in another 10 marines can be downed by 20 guardsmen and 1v1 a guardsman can slay a terminator. We all like 40k, sometimes we can get at one another's throat but that is much like anything else. 40k permits you to see the world how you fit and pick the fluff you prefer. That being said, always remember that not everybody looks at guardsman, marines, eldar, and even primarchs the same. In some fluff, primarchs can crush mountains, can slaughter millions like they are jokes, survive crashing from space, evaporate foes with punches, and many more ludicrous things such as taking a plasma shot from a titan or barel holding back a titan's stomp all the while flying around and snapping the back of one of the mightier servants of khorne's back twice. Yet in other fluff a primarch is mighty but not to such a level. A lucky shot can pick them off just as easily as any other and primarchs fall to ordinary men from a stray bullet. Don't rage or gripe with others when they see the world differently then you. Each one is fit to their own sight, their own vision.

then you can pretty much say any 40k fluff could be true or not, same thing applies to sisters or marines

So why doesn't a Primarch survive a meltagun in the face... That's just silly. We've seen them survive even more insane stuff. I mean Lorgar did survive two plasma shots... from a Titan.

It's a silly conversation. Fluffwise a Cannones will never win... plotarmor. Gamewise they can... with quite some luck.

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:
So why doesn't a Primarch survive a meltagun in the face... That's just silly. We've seen them survive even more insane stuff. I mean Lorgar did survive two plasma shots... from a Titan.

And yet Horus, believed even by most primarchs to be the best of them, was felled by a sickly guardsman/corpse with an alien sword.

 Orblivion wrote:

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:
So why doesn't a Primarch survive a meltagun in the face... That's just silly. We've seen them survive even more insane stuff. I mean Lorgar did survive two plasma shots... from a Titan.

And yet Horus, believed even by most primarchs to be the best of them, was felled by a sickly guardsman/corpse with an alien sword.

and yet Magnus destroyed hundreds of space wolves with his mind

But is that such a bad thing? Let your mind go mad. Make the impossible possible and shatter realities. Forge your own path, your own stories. Ones to be forgotten and others to be remembered. You are free to make of it whatever you wish (as long as you make sure to keep some spikes and skulls around ). Each game can be a recount, a competitive game, or your own narrative. A death on the board game doesn't necessarily mean death. Retreat, incapacitation, recovering a valuable plasma gun that overheated... what your mind creates is what has happened for you. The other individual might interpret differently but so be it. If you don't want a melta to kill a primarch, then think such a way but always remember there are others out there that prefer the notion that a primarch is not as godly as that and would be felled by such a powerful shot.

And yes, Tzeentch is best god :U

 Orblivion wrote:

And yet Horus, believed even by most primarchs to be the best of them, was felled by a sickly guardsman/corpse with an alien sword.

That "Alien sword" isn't a meltagun or plasmagun and is rather irrelevant in this. And it was a sword imbued by Nurgle...

LightKing wrote:

and yet Magnus destroyed hundreds of space wolves with his mind

And yet Magnus got his ass handed by just 5 or so Space Wolves.

 StarTrotter wrote:
But is that such a bad thing? Let your mind go mad. Make the impossible possible and shatter realities. Forge your own path, your own stories. Ones to be forgotten and others to be remembered. You are free to make of it whatever you wish (as long as you make sure to keep some spikes and skulls around ). Each game can be a recount, a competitive game, or your own narrative. A death on the board game doesn't necessarily mean death. Retreat, incapacitation, recovering a valuable plasma gun that overheated... what your mind creates is what has happened for you. The other individual might interpret differently but so be it. If you don't want a melta to kill a primarch, then think such a way but always remember there are others out there that prefer the notion that a primarch is not as godly as that and would be felled by such a powerful shot.

And yes, Tzeentch is best god :U

so its pretty much open up to interpretation.....their is no true canon in 40k?

Correct.

LightKing wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:
But is that such a bad thing? Let your mind go mad. Make the impossible possible and shatter realities. Forge your own path, your own stories. Ones to be forgotten and others to be remembered. You are free to make of it whatever you wish (as long as you make sure to keep some spikes and skulls around ). Each game can be a recount, a competitive game, or your own narrative. A death on the board game doesn't necessarily mean death. Retreat, incapacitation, recovering a valuable plasma gun that overheated... what your mind creates is what has happened for you. The other individual might interpret differently but so be it. If you don't want a melta to kill a primarch, then think such a way but always remember there are others out there that prefer the notion that a primarch is not as godly as that and would be felled by such a powerful shot.

And yes, Tzeentch is best god :U

so its pretty much open up to interpretation.....their is no true canon in 40k?

Thats how GW did it. as intended from the start.