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Can fire Into combats that slaves are in but randomize the victim...

What about shooting attacks that donet roll to hit like the mortar or warpfire thrower? Do the weapons hit like normal with no randomization?

I believe all the randomization was taken out for Slaves.

Globadiers, OTOH, still randomize.

Eh...in an errata somewhere?

 infamousxiii wrote:
Eh...in an errata somewhere?

It's in the skaven FAQ.
Under Expendable, you're told to ignore the last two sentences. That takes out the randomizing of the hits.

-Matt

Ah! Just found it in the 1.7 ammendments. Thanks dakka!

Its pretty tarded considering the fluff they give for not allowing shooting into combat but the FAQ is right, templates only hit whats under them. There were good tactics w/ the randomization

Matt Ratsinburger wrote:
Its pretty tarded considering the fluff they give for not allowing shooting into combat but the FAQ is right, templates only hit whats under them. There were good tactics w/ the randomization

I'm guessing you've never seen 50 slaves grab a daemon prince in front of jezzails...

-Matt

Not yet. I've only been back in the game 6 months after a 12 year break. I used jezzails a lot in 5th ed but haven't touched them in 8th. I have no love for the lack of d6 wounds that jezzails used to to do. I'd rather use cannons in this ed. It seems like you have to take a lot of jezzails for them to be effective.

They are still quite deadly. They can tear up most monsters (provided they are not T7) and elite infantry pretty easily from a safe distance.

HawaiiMatt wrote:I'm guessing you've never seen 50 slaves grab a daemon prince in front of jezzails...

-Matt

CthuluIsSpy wrote:They are still quite deadly. They can tear up most monsters (provided they are not T7) and elite infantry pretty easily from a safe distance.

Here I thought I was the only one foolish enough to field Jezzails...

 streamdragon wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:I'm guessing you've never seen 50 slaves grab a daemon prince in front of jezzails...

-Matt

CthuluIsSpy wrote:They are still quite deadly. They can tear up most monsters (provided they are not T7) and elite infantry pretty easily from a safe distance.

Here I thought I was the only one foolish enough to field Jezzails...

I don't play skaven. I do remember getting really annoyed at them because they keep killing things I didn't what them to kill. Like my saurus.

Jezzails are really not that super dangerous.

20 PPM.
BS3 so 4+ to hit normally.
Beyond 18" you're at 5+ to hit.
Ld5, so not exactly hard to panic.

But when they DO hit, that S6 + armor pen will put most things in a world of hurt.

 streamdragon wrote:
Jezzails are really not that super dangerous.

20 PPM.
BS3 so 4+ to hit normally.
Beyond 18" you're at 5+ to hit.
Ld5, so not exactly hard to panic.

But when they DO hit, that S6 + armor pen will put most things in a world of hurt.

Yep. Their chance to hit is about average, really. Except they have longer ranged guns than most, so they will have more chances to shoot throughout the game. Their short range bonus also comes into effect at a longer distance than most as well.

As I said, seems like you have to have a lot of them in order for them to be effective. I'd rather use my special points on monks and runners in smaller games.

 streamdragon wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:I'm guessing you've never seen 50 slaves grab a daemon prince in front of jezzails...

-Matt

CthuluIsSpy wrote:They are still quite deadly. They can tear up most monsters (provided they are not T7) and elite infantry pretty easily from a safe distance.

Here I thought I was the only one foolish enough to field Jezzails...

Well I think I'm insane enough to field 10-15 globadiers total in 5 model squads. Not sure if i'll take the death globes on each champion though. It can be nasty vs cavalry but I dunno.

I suppose cannons and doomwheels are better against monsters but I'm tired of the hard to kill monsters whenever I feel like throwing points into a hellpit abomination.

I suppose the shooting into combat still applies with globadiers but it's just very slim to hurt much when randomized that much more. Suppose it could still be good against some monsters or chariots though.

Also yeah I'd probably take warp lightning cannons or doomwheels but globes always wound on a 4+ and always avoid armor which is quite nice. Too bad they're such short range but against stuff like daemon princes, steam tanks or demigryphs they'd probably be alright. I'll probably still take the doomwheels or warp lightning cannons though for extra firepower.

In my experience, you need the banner of discipline for globadiers. With a lord choice + banner, you've boosted skaven to a respectible Ld8 for those guys without rank bonuses.
Globadiers really needed to be immune to panic; high Ld general is the next best thing.

-Matt

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
In my experience, you need the banner of discipline for globadiers. With a lord choice + banner, you've boosted skaven to a respectible Ld8 for those guys without rank bonuses.
Globadiers really needed to be immune to panic; high Ld general is the next best thing.

-Matt

Perhaps screening with slaves would help? I figure globadiers at least can move around more easily and the slaves would provide good defense against missiles. The only real threat is if the slaves basically explode from losing close combat. The thinking for me goes that the slaves can screen but also can but shot into with the globes if it's a certain unit. Also should the slaves break and you're somewhere else it won't panic the globadiers.

So I dunno maybe run the slaves in a 20 model units with 2 ranks deep. That way them losing and being destroyed doesn't effect you too much. Also it's probably a good idea to place your globadiers 8"+ away in case the enemy overruns from the combat (which is likely). So yeah running slaves wide should allow for plenty of cover if the globes choose to be far enough behind. Then again high ground will negate this but that should only really matter for bolt throwers and garrisoned units on 2nd floor and above.

The real problem with randomizing into Slaves was with the Warpfire Thrower. I hit your Mournfangs twice, and my Slaves 27 times...which means 14 hits on Slaves and 14 on your Mournfangs? Stupid. When small units fought Slaves, template weapons hit the enemy more times than they possibly could when the units were engaged. It's just absurd.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:I'm guessing you've never seen 50 slaves grab a daemon prince in front of jezzails...

-Matt

CthuluIsSpy wrote:They are still quite deadly. They can tear up most monsters (provided they are not T7) and elite infantry pretty easily from a safe distance.

Here I thought I was the only one foolish enough to field Jezzails...

Well I think I'm insane enough to field 10-15 globadiers total in 5 model squads. Not sure if i'll take the death globes on each champion though. It can be nasty vs cavalry but I dunno.

For 50 points a squad I get 3 skirmishing drops to go along with 4-5 26 point rat darts. It seems we are both the same kind of crazy! Then again, I usually give 2 of the 3 units Poisoned Wind Mortars, but then I love my weapon teams more than I really should.