Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Numbers aside, are Deathwing actually better at fighting or better in their tactics than other chapters?

A terminator is a Veterans who has earned the right to wear Tactical Dreadnought Armour...they're tactics and will revolve around what they've been involved in through their service. Each Chapter uses their Terminator/Veteran Squads differently but none are better, they just do combat differently.

All Terminators will be skilled warriors, Veterans of a hundred wars, and all will be very skilled in the art of dealing death.

However, I feel the Deathwing style squads win over Codex Astartes style squads by way of their variable equipment.

This is true...unless the chapter doesn't follow the Codex or other conventional rules such as the Space Wolves...individual 'Wolf Guard' are even put in charge of regular squads because of their experience and respect within the pack. But that doesn't make them any les dangerous or more adept than a peer from another Chapter. I believe that all terminator companies across the board roughly the same the only difference is between experience between individuals...

For the ruck and run of terminators, no, the Deathwing are pretty much the same.

Yes because the Dark Angels Codex says they are of the most elite fighting forces in the Imperium. Granted it's their own codex so there may be bias but its really all I have to go off of. Ravenwing are some of the best bike mounted units in the Imperium, so why shouldn't the Deathwing be some of the best terminators?

 Ignatius wrote:
Yes because the Dark Angels Codex says they are of the most elite fighting forces in the Imperium. Granted it's their own codex so there may be bias but its really all I have to go off of. Ravenwing are some of the best bike mounted units in the Imperium, so why shouldn't the Deathwing be some of the best terminators?

Rules wise WS bikers are much better than ravenwing (and cheaper too) so don't take the fluff from a codex as an indication of comparible strength as each Codex presents its faction as the strongest in the 40kverse.

This makes who is better debates a constant theme in dakkadakka and also ultimately futile.

The only chapter with Terminators I'd wager are really "better" than other chapters in most cases are the Grey Knights.

 Mythantor wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
Yes because the Dark Angels Codex says they are of the most elite fighting forces in the Imperium. Granted it's their own codex so there may be bias but its really all I have to go off of. Ravenwing are some of the best bike mounted units in the Imperium, so why shouldn't the Deathwing be some of the best terminators?

Rules wise WS bikers are much better than ravenwing (and cheaper too) so don't take the fluff from a codex as an indication of comparible strength as each Codex presents its faction as the strongest in the 40kverse.

This makes who is better debates a constant theme in dakkadakka and also ultimately futile.

It's why I said some of the best bikers, not the. Regardless I'll take fluff from the codex as an indication if I like so don't tell me I can't. It's an opinion and unless you give me another quote or something to go off of I'll maintain that opinion.

 Mythantor wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
Yes because the Dark Angels Codex says they are of the most elite fighting forces in the Imperium. Granted it's their own codex so there may be bias but its really all I have to go off of. Ravenwing are some of the best bike mounted units in the Imperium, so why shouldn't the Deathwing be some of the best terminators?

Rules wise WS bikers are much better than ravenwing (and cheaper too) so don't take the fluff from a codex as an indication of comparible strength as each Codex presents its faction as the strongest in the 40kverse.

This makes who is better debates a constant theme in dakkadakka and also ultimately futile.

Why take rules wise into account though, considering how bad some are.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
The only chapter with Terminators I'd wager are really "better" than other chapters in most cases are the Grey Knights.

Indeed, I believe this is true as well.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
The only chapter with Terminators I'd wager are really "better" than other chapters in most cases are the Grey Knights.

Indeed, I believe this is true as well.

I bet the space wolves wolf guard could beat them, same with blood angles termis

You'd bet wrong.

The training of the Grey Knights is already better. The fact that they are all psykers is a bonus.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
You'd bet wrong.

The training of the Grey Knights is already better. The fact that they are all psykers is a bonus.

They have superior equipment as well.

Few Imperial organisations outside of the Adeptus Custodes have wargear that can match Grey Knight stuff in quality.

And fluffwise Nemesis Daemon Hammers is not the only Nemesis weapon that does not bounce off TDA, you know.

Well during Armageddon, Logan and his wolf guard showed up the gray knights.

Logan did, but he's a chapter master. I don't recall the Wolf Guard fighting other Terminators.

Logan killed a grandmaster I believe and a grand master is escorted by his termi guards like Logan and his wolf guard.

Yes, I would say that they are in fact better than many other chapters terminators, not because of any equipment advantage, but because of their training.

Most chapters terminators are veterans who look at a situation and say, "Well, the use of TDA could prove useful in this situation". For the DA, if you are in the 1st Company, you fight exclusivley in terminator armour and nothing else at all and are trained to maximise the abilities of TDA in all situations, they are, terminator specialists, combined with the fact they have the knowledge and material available to maintain and repair the armour after every battle, makes them more of a force to be reckoned with.

My $0.02

 Krellnus wrote:
Yes, I would say that they are in fact better than many other chapters terminators, not because of any equipment advantage, but because of their training.

Most chapters terminators are veterans who look at a situation and say, "Well, the use of TDA could prove useful in this situation". For the DA, if you are in the 1st Company, you fight exclusivley in terminator armour and nothing else at all and are trained to maximise the abilities of TDA in all situations, they are, terminator specialists, combined with the fact they have the knowledge and material available to maintain and repair the armour after every battle, makes them more of a force to be reckoned with.

My $0.02

I agree, I wish the rules represented that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Logan did, but he's a chapter master. I don't recall the Wolf Guard fighting other Terminators.

I looked up the fluff and Logan and the GM were alone. And when Logan killed the inquisitor tree was no mention of GK termis

Logan was escorted by a cortège of three his own marines when he slays Joros. One of them, Bran Rawthroat has a brief psychic conversation with Hyperion before it all kicks off. However, the Grey Knights were not allowed to fight back against any of them throughout, under the orders of the Inquisitor Lord present. As Void__Dragon said, I'd expect Logan Grimnar (or most space marine chapter masters) to beat a Grey Knight of an equivalently lower rank. Chapter Masters (especially those of canonical renown like Grimnar) are exceptional warriors but they are the topflight of their chapter - they should not be heralded as its normal standard.

Anyway if were going to include Chapter Masters in Terminator within this conversation, then characters like Abaddon, Calgar, Culln, Draigo or Moloc will quickly turn any Terminator (Deathwing or otherwise) into a red smear-stain.

I'm with krellnus on this one too. If they spend their entire existence fighting and training in Terminator armour they will end up being better. Hence they are super effective after deep striking and squads members are flexible enough to engage targets appropriate to their weaponry, rather than everyone blazing away at a single target.