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What would you say the theme(s) of the original/2E RPG were, or what were they trying to explore?
I'd say intrigue, namely political but more broadly "factional" (between corporations, military units, etc.); and a healthy dose of that staple of Canadian fiction, "man-vs-nature." Sure it's a sci-fi setting, but it was always made very clear that Terra Nova is not EASY.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/26 14:41:09
Albertorius wrote: If it is me, the only themes I have been able to see in the blurb is "wartime RPG" in the vein of a WWII RPG or the like, but it actually doesn't tell me much other than that it will deal with the war. That is actually a theme (war stories) but doesn't tell me much about tone or anything else apart of some setting stuff that as a newbie I would probably not be able to really decipher (There are Badlands clans or something, so there's Badlands in the setting; there are homesteads; there are purple monsters; Some place called Port Oasis burns, and something called Les Temoins which is maybe a library...).
HG has always been a setting with the spectre of war looming (and small flare ups that the players obviously participate in) but I'd agree that there is a difference between that and the full on global conflict that this will likely involve. I just don't know if there is any way to set it otherwise while still tying it into the tabletop game in a simultaneous timeframe (which I suspect is understandably the overriding priority for DP9). They can't set it pre-second invasion because almost the last (real world) decade of products (both books and minis) from the company have been focused on that conflict and I don't think they can hand wave fast forward past the conflict either without hurting the wargame. For better or worse, we'll have an RPG that tells a more personal tale in a tiny slice of that conflict. I'm ok with that personally (hell, I suggested doing that for my own "If I ruled the world" HGrpg but during the first invasion) but I can understand why folks like yourself who really got into the world building of TN would prefer a different default setting.
Firebreak wrote: What would you say the theme(s) of the original/2E RPG were, or what were they trying to explore?
I'd say intrigue, namely political but more broadly "factional" (between corporations, military units, etc.); and a healthy dose of that staple of Canadian fiction, "man-vs-nature." Sure it's a sci-fi setting, but it was always made very clear that Terra Nova is not EASY.
For starters, let's remark that Silhouette didn't really play to the themes of any particular setting other than in the broad general sense that it was a system centered around a taks resolution system with a results curve that made higher skill reliable and where the sweet spot was in a "human range" of values... and which broke quite fast as soon as you took it out of the sweet spots.
As to Heavy Gear specifically, other than the above system assumptions, all the themes were setting ones and weren't really enhanced or enforced by the actual ruleset.
Im my mind, the main themes of HG as a setting always were:
- Life in the frontier, both as a general trope of the setting (TN is a frontier world, after all, and very sparsely populated) and as a specific one (the Badlands, duh ) and a sort of old Western flair in many aspects, and related to that the concept of liberty, usually from opressors (be it CEF, the AST but also the Humanist Alliance or the hypercapitalism of the UMF).
- Honor: Specifically the duelists and all, but also how personal honor faces against the needs of survival or duty.
- Intrigue: As Firebreak said, there's multiple leves of intrigue, that usually mix among themselves. Also, shades of grey. Nobody is wholly good or bad in Terra Nova.
- Might vs. Right: This one's related with the Life in the frontier and liberty themes exposed above.
- War, was never changes: Well... duh . But more specifically, TN has post war themes (The WotA and how it affected... everyone, really, and what to do with the consequences of it), but also Cold War and Pre War themes (here it links with the Intrigue, too). Not as many actual war themes as the original setting tried to be more expansive than that, but they did make it the main theme of a fair amount of sourcebooks and of a whole campaign.
- Societal mores: One of the great things of Terra Nova is its very detailed, nuanced and believable societies, and the way they have evolved to the frontier world they live in. As said above, there's no "good" or "bad" cultures. There's only people, and the way they conform or reject their societies.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/26 15:12:30
Dang it, why do you have to write so fast Alberto ? Yeah, whatever he said.
I'd argue that the theme isn't so much "Liberty" as it is "Emancipation", with most factions either trying to emancipate themselves from a stronger entity, or having to deal with finally being emancipated (Terra Nova as a whole after beating the first CEF invasion).
While this is more a setting element than a theme, I'd also mention the small scale. Unlike Space Opera setttings such as Star Wars, 40K or Battletech, most of the action happens on a single planet, with a total population about on par with North America. Peace River is only 250 000 people, that's the city I live in right now, on a small tropical island...
This makes for smaller stakes, no one's trying to save the galaxy, or conquer a few sectors, but then that means everything is a lot more personal and human-scaled.
If I was to pick the biggest themes, I'd go for Life on the Frontier, and Societal mores. It's not just that Terra Nova has detailed, nuance, believable societies, each such society is specifically designed after a political concept, like the SRA is imperialism, the UMF is ultra-liberalism, etc... I wouldn't go as far as to call HG a political science experiment, but...
Hm, confused now. Are you asking me (Albertorius) or Vaktathi?
If it is me, the only themes I have been able to see in the blurb is "wartime RPG" in the vein of a WWII RPG or the like, but it actually doesn't tell me much other than that it will deal with the war. That is actually a theme (war stories) but doesn't tell me much about tone or anything else apart of some setting stuff that as a newbie I would probably not be able to really decipher (There are Badlands clans or something, so there's Badlands in the setting; there are homesteads; there are purple monsters; Some place called Port Oasis burns, and something called Les Temoins which is maybe a library...).
As a counterpoint, in the examples I made I tried to avoid setting details as much as possible and tried to focus on what the game is supposed to be about (samurai drama!, Tactical mecha combat and light character RP!). That kind of stuff.
Asking you, so thank you for replying.
So, if I've understood your answer correctly, what you want is the aim of the game? What the players are meant to be doing in the setting. Am I right?
For me, theme means mecha, war, on a planet far away... etc. Hence why I asked for clarification. But, I can see that I was making an assumption, and what you're saying is the game needs to sell the sizzle.
Paint it Pink wrote: So, if I've understood your answer correctly, what you want is the aim of the game? What the players are meant to be doing in the setting. Am I right?
As a general thing, yes: what is this game about? What are the players supposed to be doing? What themes are you supposed to be exploring?
Once you define the aims of the game, what players are there for and what are the main themes your games are supposed to be about, you can define what rules are best suited to help with those aims, the player options you need to allow the characters do what they're supposed to, what subsystems you might need to deal with the themes of the game, etc.
In essence, I strongly feel that defining the main themes and expected game experience for a game are the first steps before starting to write anything like actual rules. Then you write a first draft, and test the feth out of them, after which you check whether the rules succeed on the above aims (which wont). after you see what you need to toss and what you can keep, you do it again. And again. And again.
Also, the emergent gameplay during those alpha test may well change the aims of the game and the needs of it, so testing (and testing, and testing, and testing again) is the second most important part of gaming design, IMHO.
By way of example: a friend of mine is writing an "anime magical girls" RPG, which is currently on its 28th rules draft. It started as a Savage Worlds mod, but after a couple rounds of testing it was clear that the rules weren't giving him the results he wanted, so he started changing stuff and borrowing from other parts. The current draft borrows heavily from PbtA and FitD game theory, with a lot of additional stuff.
I have playtested maybe ten of the 28 drafts, myself.
EDIT: Now I know what "selling the sizzle" means ^^. Yes, they need to make the game as appealing as possible and aim to fill the players' need, but IMHO you absolutely need to address the aims and themes of the game with actual rules. You need the steak. That's part of the reason why I think it's so important to define them.
This message was edited 9 times. Last update was at 2020/11/27 14:36:14
HudsonD wrote: I wouldn't go as far as to call HG a political science experiment, but...
I think HG takes political science fiction as far as it takes military science fiction. The V-engine exists in our world, but it's not exactly what they have on Terra Nova. High winds and weird magentism exist on our planet, but don't limit aircraft the way they do on Terra Nova. HG takes tech, and turns it up - not to 11, but stretched it just enough to make a fun wargame without needing fantasy elements or space magic. It does the same thing with political theory. "What if a country *literally* voted with their dollar?" etc.
HudsonD wrote: I wouldn't go as far as to call HG a political science experiment, but...
I think HG takes political science fiction as far as it takes military science fiction. The V-engine exists in our world, but it's not exactly what they have on Terra Nova. High winds and weird magentism exist on our planet, but don't limit aircraft the way they do on Terra Nova. HG takes tech, and turns it up - not to 11, but stretched it just enough to make a fun wargame without needing fantasy elements or space magic. It does the same thing with political theory. "What if a country *literally* voted with their dollar?" etc.
I wouldn't say it's what makes the wargame fun, I'd say it's what makes the setting fun.
HG pushes things a little further than present day, and only a little, making for a very believable, liveable setting. Most of us could totally spend a couple weeks vacation there, and I don't mean just Ashanti
The existence of such "single-issue" societies, and their interactions, through rivalry, cooperation and conflict is as core a theme as life on the frontier.
HudsonD wrote: I wouldn't go as far as to call HG a political science experiment, but...
I think HG takes political science fiction as far as it takes military science fiction. The V-engine exists in our world, but it's not exactly what they have on Terra Nova. High winds and weird magentism exist on our planet, but don't limit aircraft the way they do on Terra Nova. HG takes tech, and turns it up - not to 11, but stretched it just enough to make a fun wargame without needing fantasy elements or space magic. It does the same thing with political theory. "What if a country *literally* voted with their dollar?" etc.
I wouldn't say it's what makes the wargame fun, I'd say it's what makes the setting fun.
HG pushes things a little further than present day, and only a little, making for a very believable, liveable setting. Most of us could totally spend a couple weeks vacation there, and I don't mean just Ashanti
The existence of such "single-issue" societies, and their interactions, through rivalry, cooperation and conflict is as core a theme as life on the frontier.
That's a better way of putting it. A push and a shove instead of technobabble.
Firebreak wrote: That's a better way of putting it. A push and a shove instead of technobabble.
Indeed.
The thing is, science fiction, good science fiction at least, is always about the present, and you can definitely notice it in Heavy Gear. Or at least you used to.
Firebreak wrote: That's a better way of putting it. A push and a shove instead of technobabble.
Indeed.
The thing is, science fiction, good science fiction at least, is always about the present, and you can definitely notice it in Heavy Gear. Or at least you used to.
Or at least, where the present may be taking us based on events from the past (Foundation, for example).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/27 20:45:23
Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
No one does angsty horny teenagers better than Darling in the FranXXX.
It is very literally the anime where subtext is text
Spoiler:
Jokes aside, if you haven't checked out TBZ I would recommend you to take a look if you're interested in high action drama laden roleplay. I have GMed it about a dozen times in conventions (plus a whole lot at home) and it has always been a real treat.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/11/29 11:58:59
Any news on the RPG? Or the nublitz rules that have been in layout supposedly since August or September? Ashley informed me of this (thanks again!) so I figured I'd post it here as well in case there are other luddites like me who don't visit those newfangled sites like reddit.
Am I the only one that would prefer some more blitz proportions on them? They look quite nice but they feel to me more like the tactical era minis than the original Rafm or later Blitz stylings.
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Paint it Pink wrote: I suggested the guy sell these to Robert because it would help the company with another income stream.
Might be a good idea. I don't think 28mm minis would bite into the blitz marketshare.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/17 21:50:08
Though I can't recall exactly/link the exact source (Phil Leclerc forum post when he was doing the original blitz minis?), iirc the tactical era minis were designed the same way. They tried to exactly match the technical drawings rather than being based on them like the first Rafm ones.
I can confirm the comment, and yeah, I'm a big fan of Phil's resculpts, who fudged proportions a bit, especially on the arms.
I mean, the arms, as shown on the technical drawings, are actually too short, so...
HudsonD wrote: I can confirm the comment, and yeah, I'm a big fan of Phil's resculpts, who fudged proportions a bit, especially on the arms. I mean, the arms, as shown on the technical drawings, are actually too short, so...
Damn GRELS keep putting kick me signs on all those tact scale gears' v-engines!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/18 19:31:59
Looking good! I've said it before but it bears repeating.. I like the extra gubbinz (to borrow an old ork term) that add the the HG asthetic without drowning it out.
) and a sort of old Western flair in many aspects, and related to that the concept of liberty, usually from opressors (be it CEF, the AST but also the Humanist Alliance or the hypercapitalism of the UMF).
-- $k 
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