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 Albertorius wrote:

But it was a lot better when used against scout and elite gears. Both had Man bonuses, that the FGC compensated, and the effective x9 DM meant that it could do light damage to elite gears with MoS 2. So usually, it was a pretty nice improvement.

And also... you were able to change the ammo and put solid shots. That changed the weapon to x14 DM, Acc 0. Which was nice.

The slug seemed nice on paper, but the +1 ACC shot was typically better - due to multiplicative effects, that x9 DAM would effectively be around x14 to begin with, and the +1 ACC meant that you were generally assured to land a better hit almost all of the time. I personally think they screwed up the damage on the +1 ACC shot myself - it should have been around x5 or x6, because at x7 you're basically saying it's shooting AC shells. And that doesn't make sense - if you can fire a cloud of shells with the same damage as an AC, why wouldn't your ACs adopt the same technology?

Mechanics aside however - the frag cannon was supposed to have two types of ammo, Impact and AI, with a fairly reasonable damage value but a low range. Impact was supposed to be the slug and could slow you down, but apparently that mechanic was cumbersome and they're removing it. That makes sense to me - Impact was good from a game perspective, but unrealistic - how much energy could a slug that size impart, after all? I believe they're changing it to an armor penetrating round which gives it an interesting niche at least.

But either way, it's a big honking shotgun. Just like the Snub Cannon - realism is nice, but sometimes rule of cool should prevail.

Gerrit, I tried using the alpha no movement dice in regular blitz except for held actions and it works well. Thanks for the idea!

 IceRaptor wrote:
The slug seemed nice on paper, but the +1 ACC shot was typically better - due to multiplicative effects, that x9 DAM would effectively be around x14 to begin with, and the +1 ACC meant that you were generally assured to land a better hit almost all of the time. I personally think they screwed up the damage on the +1 ACC shot myself - it should have been around x5 or x6, because at x7 you're basically saying it's shooting AC shells. And that doesn't make sense - if you can fire a cloud of shells with the same damage as an AC, why wouldn't your ACs adopt the same technology?

I sort of agree, but the x14 +0 Acc gun was still good against low Man high Armor vehicles usually. It was a particular case, yes, but... it was also useful because you could add up other ammo effects to the solid shot, like AP.

Mechanics aside however - the frag cannon was supposed to have two types of ammo, Impact and AI, with a fairly reasonable damage value but a low range. Impact was supposed to be the slug and could slow you down, but apparently that mechanic was cumbersome and they're removing it. That makes sense to me - Impact was good from a game perspective, but unrealistic - how much energy could a slug that size impart, after all? I believe they're changing it to an armor penetrating round which gives it an interesting niche at least.

But either way, it's a big honking shotgun. Just like the Snub Cannon - realism is nice, but sometimes rule of cool should prevail.

It's all I've been commenting on, really. That saying that the frag cannon was "never meant to be shot against Gears" was... well, untrue.

 Albertorius wrote:

I sort of agree, but the x14 +0 Acc gun was still good against low Man high Armor vehicles usually. It was a particular case, yes, but... it was also useful because you could add up other ammo effects to the solid shot, like AP.

Ah, okay. I assume you're talking about -2 or -3 MAN models; that would make sense then.

 Albertorius wrote:
It's all I've been commenting on, really. That saying that the frag cannon was "never meant to be shot against Gears" was... well, untrue.

That was the description, but I don't think either incarnation really lives up to the ideal. In Blitz and earlier the ceramic shot is more potent than shaped penetrators, which is sorta dumb. I'd be much happier if the buckshot was logically consistent and damaged AUX system, sensors, etc - but was still not a 'go to' damage against the core of the unit. The slug round - which would basically just be a heavier, slower AC shell - makes good sense to me, so I don't have any real objections there. I don't think either system has represented it well, myself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warboss wrote:
Gerrit, I tried using the alpha no movement dice in regular blitz except for held actions and it works well. Thanks for the idea!

You're welcome, but it was hardly a novel ideal. Many people were talking about it during the L&L period,not just me. But I'm glad you're having fun with it!

 IceRaptor wrote:

Ah, okay. I assume you're talking about -2 or -3 MAN models; that would make sense then.

Yep, it got some use as strider and light tank hunting weapon back in the day. That said, we also used extensively the special ammo rules.

That was the description, but I don't think either incarnation really lives up to the ideal. In Blitz and earlier the ceramic shot is more potent than shaped penetrators, which is sorta dumb. I'd be much happier if the buckshot was logically consistent and damaged AUX system, sensors, etc - but was still not a 'go to' damage against the core of the unit. The slug round - which would basically just be a heavier, slower AC shell - makes good sense to me, so I don't have any real objections there. I don't think either system has represented it well, myself.

Agreed. Personally, I'd expand on the AUX idea: a frag ammo FGC should be good for blowing up AUX systems out of a unit (buckshot, accurate, don't need to pack much punch). It also should be good against lightly armored targets (thin-skinned vehicles, light plates... up to armored trucks I guess. And Cheetahs, Bobcats and the like. Maybe Armor 12 or whereabouts?).

But in my mind, it also should be effective against Gears. With as many articulated parts a Gear needs to move around and fight there must be unarmored/lightly armored joints just about everywhere... and while a bullet, or even a burst is not that likely to hit one, a cloud of big-ass pellets are. So they should wreck havoc in gears' joints, which could perfectly translate as Movement, Maneuver and FC hits.

 Albertorius wrote:
It also should be good against lightly armored targets (thin-skinned vehicles, light plates... up to armored trucks I guess. And Cheetahs, Bobcats and the like. Maybe Armor 12 or whereabouts?).

I guess it's a preference issue, but I'd say that the buckshot round would have a hard time penetrating even Bobcat armor, but the Cheetah might be a possibility. I tend to think of the buckshot round is roughly equal to a HMG round, or maybe slightly meaner, but not much so. The smaller a round and the lower the velocity, the less the penetration - and I'd tend to think you're basically shooting as many pellets as possible to make it competitive with a HMG round, just in a one-shot 'fan' instead of a burst of multiple rounds. Which is why I tend to put it on the lower end of the scale; short of using self-guiding projectiles that sort of fan burst with shaped charges would be difficult and I don't see the frag as that high tech of a weapon.

 Albertorius wrote:

But in my mind, it also should be effective against Gears. With as many articulated parts a Gear needs to move around and fight there must be unarmored/lightly armored joints just about everywhere... and while a bullet, or even a burst is not that likely to hit one, a cloud of big-ass pellets are. So they should wreck havoc in gears' joints, which could perfectly translate as Movement, Maneuver and FC hits.

I would agree with that - it also fits with the professed Silhouette belief that it's an 'effects' based system. Make the buckshot round randomly damage Man, Move, FC, Aux instead of doing straight damage, and it plays more like the ideal I think. Allow it to also select an solid round, which I'd just give decent damage to and nothing else, and the frag cannon can work as a AI, debuffer or be dangerous at short ranges. That would give it a variety of roles, only limited by it's range - which sounds like a good flavor for the weapon.

The pod has unveiled the first peek at their new northern Gearstrider:



Whoo, let's make the factions even more distinctive... byt copying each and every thing everyone have in all armies.

Ah, well. I don't like GSs, never will I think. As to the actual design, it looks much more proportioned than the Drake, to the point that, with the scale of that Snub Cannon, I can't really say that it looks any bigger than a Kodiak.

...which is not that surprising, seeing as, from the look of it, is basically what it is: Kodiak arms and legs, Razorback torso, Hussar turret and head. Plus a stupid looking double axe and a snub cannon that shoots snub cannons.

Ah well, at leas it looks proportioned. I guess I could use it as a 28mm Gear.

That's just plain lame, to say the least.

 IceRaptor wrote:
I would agree with that - it also fits with the professed Silhouette belief that it's an 'effects' based system. Make the buckshot round randomly damage Man, Move, FC, Aux instead of doing straight damage, and it plays more like the ideal I think. Allow it to also select an solid round, which I'd just give decent damage to and nothing else, and the frag cannon can work as a AI, debuffer or be dangerous at short ranges. That would give it a variety of roles, only limited by it's range - which sounds like a good flavor for the weapon.

So, thinking about ways to implement this with the Tactical rules...

Hm, I guess I should have to create the ammo. Let's see, how about this:

Buckshot ammo
Buckshot ammo fills the air with heavy pellets instead of a single larger projectile. That makes them more effective against unprotected targets and diminishes the need to aim. That also reduces penetration capabilities, but it is still effective against joints, auxiliary systems and similarly unprotected equipment on armored units.

In game terms, the attacker receives a +1 Acc bonus, halves the DM and adds the AI trait to the weapon (that makes it have the same DM against infantry as a HMG at full auto [EDIT: well, the FGC at least ^_^]).

When attacking non-infantry targets, the weapon doesn't reduce the Armor of the unit, but it will roll twice in the systems damage table, rerolling any "crew" result. Also, it can't score Heavy damage hits.

Probably a bit too wordy, but... how about it? Too much, too little?

 Albertorius wrote:

Buckshot ammo
Buckshot ammo fills the air with heavy pellets instead of a single larger projectile. That makes them more effective against unprotected targets and diminishes the need to aim. That also reduces penetration capabilities, but it is still effective against joints, auxiliary systems and similarly unprotected equipment on armored units.

In game terms, the attacker receives a +1 Acc bonus, halves the DM and adds the AI trait to the weapon (that makes it have the same DM against infantry as a HMG at full auto [EDIT: well, the FGC at least ^_^]).

When attacking non-infantry targets, the weapon doesn't reduce the Armor of the unit, but it will roll twice in the systems damage table, rerolling any "crew" result. Also, it can't score Heavy damage hits.

Probably a bit too wordy, but... how about it? Too much, too little?

I think that does a pretty good job myself. The only change I would make would be to say that 'Treat any Heavy Damage hits as Light Damage hits.' instead of saying you just don't get Heavy damage hits. Against Tanks (and other fortified targets) it's going to be hard to score enough MoS * DAM to actually generate systems damage, unless I'm recalling incorrectly? But against a Gear you can really sandpaper them down to nothing.

 Albertorius wrote:
The pod has unveiled the first peek at their new northern Gearstrider:

Spoiler:

Whoo, let's make the factions even more distinctive... byt copying each and every thing everyone have in all armies.

Ah, well. I don't like GSs, never will I think. As to the actual design, it looks much more proportioned than the Drake, to the point that, with the scale of that Snub Cannon, I can't really say that it looks any bigger than a Kodiak.

...which is not that surprising, seeing as, from the look of it, is basically what it is: Kodiak arms and legs, Razorback torso, Hussar turret and head. Plus a stupid looking double axe and a snub cannon that shoots snub cannons.

It's better than the drake but that is hardly a compliment nor is it hard to do. You also forgot the wedding cake inspiration for the top center torso as it only needs another weapon on top of the weapon that is on top of the other weapon to be complete. Assuming that thing is the size of previous gearstriders, isn't that snub cannon too large? I'm not really sold on the obligatory close combat weapon as I personally don't think every gearstrider needs to have a secret aspiring arena gladiator fetish. In the end, it's better than I thought it would be given the drake but still far from good.

The looks are uninspired, sure, but it's not what bothers me the most.

This new unit outperforms the Mammoth in every way, for a price increase that's negligible. Way too go...

 Albertorius wrote:
The pod has unveiled the first peek at their new northern Gearstrider:
Whoo, let's make the factions even more distinctive... by copying each and every thing everyone have in all armies.
Ah, well. I don't like GSs, never will I think.

Yeah, another shining example of the Pod's commitment to originality.

 warboss wrote:
I'm not really sold on the obligatory close combat weapon

The "Chaplain" staff on the Knights of Massada CGL model lost it's second attack during layout, so TPTB had to add it back somewhere, at least in looks.
And the generalissimo loves snubs, so it had to have that too, because it already had too much of everything else for no reason.

Scale apparently is one of those irrelevant details no one is allowed to question either.
Arena gladiatorial mecha melee is the true vision of Heavy Gear, anything else is a byproduct or happenstance.

Isn't it amazing how fast a never critiqued pet idea can get pushed through when TPTB choose to do so yet the Pod's other projects can and have languished for a year or more at times, or get released so full of typos and errors as to be almost unusable.

 HudsonD wrote:
This new unit outperforms the Mammoth in every way, for a price increase that's negligible. Way to go...

It's only under-costed by around 20-40 TV, which TPTB apparently find no big deal.
And players may already own Mammoths, so those folks don't matter.

_
_

@Brandon:

NO!

It is bad enough that there is gundam and final fantasy spilled all over my Heavy Gear... we don't need to (Michael) Bay it up as well with robots with facial hair! It has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that manly facial hair on giant robots is a big mistake. The pod doesn't need even more inspiration for mediocrity from the guy who is screwing up my favorite childhood toys.




edit: Also, as a former tanker, could you confirm that lighting an artillery round on fire at that end would just end up exploding that 120mm cigar into the robots face in a Willy Coyote sort of way?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Smilodon: Some people simply differ from my strong opinions about gear striders (both in looks and theory) but I don't think there is any justification for undercosting them just to sell shiny new model. That last part is completely without morales but I suspect the company needs the cash infusion (conjecture obviously) with books now simply not selling. I wouldn't mind picking up a hard copy of TPS but the news of the books being useless hasn't apparently hit the ebay resellers yet and they're still asking for way too much for an outdated book.

I'm going to greenstuff on a beard to one of my Chameleons just for you warboss.

Also, that Gearstrider is... wow...

That might be one of the ugliest things I have seen. The tiny head on the Dingo looks neat. But that is just...

Igor called, and he wants his hunchback.

 Chemical Cutthroat wrote:
I'm going to greenstuff on a beard to one of my Chameleons just for you warboss.

Also, that Gearstrider is... wow...

That might be one of the ugliest things I have seen. The tiny head on the Dingo looks neat. But that is just...

Igor called, and he wants his hunchback.

If Igor has the time to find a phone, reattach his fingers and call you instead of doing his job, then he clearly doesn't need an assistant. I'll tell him during his next evaluation. I'll also explain to him that he's not supposed to discriminate based on disability. An assistant with a straight back is just as capable as a hunchbacked one.

warboss wrote:@Brandon:

NO!

It is bad enough that there is gundam and final fantasy spilled all over my Heavy Gear... we don't need to (Michael) Bay it up as well with robots with facial hair! It has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that manly facial hair on giant robots is a big mistake. The pod doesn't need even more inspiration for mediocrity from the guy who is screwing up my favorite childhood toys.

Spoiler:

edit: Also, as a former tanker, could you confirm that lighting an artillery round on fire at that end would just end up exploding that 120mm cigar into the robots face in a Willy Coyote sort of way?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Smilodon: Some people simply differ from my strong opinions about gear striders (both in looks and theory) but I don't think there is any justification for undercosting them just to sell shiny new model. That last part is completely without morales but I suspect the company needs the cash infusion (conjecture obviously) with books now simply not selling. I wouldn't mind picking up a hard copy of TPS but the news of the books being useless hasn't apparently hit the ebay resellers yet and they're still asking for way too much for an outdated book.

For those who are completely WTFing over what it was I said, I mentioned that we should add a beard, in reference to an earlier comment about Manly Things.

And hey, know what, I'ma have fun with this, so ya'll and your discussions about what's overcosted/undercosted can keep it in PMs. :p

Serious, guys, can we not have fun???

Yes, snub cannon's oversized, I get it. We all knew it was coming anyway (though even I admit I wanted the North to go another route). That's not my business though. I'll work with it because it's there. And I'll have a crap-load of fun with it. You believe me.

As for the 120 burning up, yes. It wouldn't explode, but it would burn really fast. So I'm guessing he's got some kinda weird concoction in there to smoke it. That or he's using the tip of the sabot as a tip for some weird tobacco concoction.

Chemical Cutthroat wrote:I'm going to greenstuff on a beard to one of my Chameleons just for you warboss.

Also, that Gearstrider is... wow...

That might be one of the ugliest things I have seen. The tiny head on the Dingo looks neat. But that is just...

Igor called, and he wants his hunchback.

mrondeau wrote:

 Chemical Cutthroat wrote:
I'm going to greenstuff on a beard to one of my Chameleons just for you warboss.

Also, that Gearstrider is... wow...

That might be one of the ugliest things I have seen. The tiny head on the Dingo looks neat. But that is just...

Igor called, and he wants his hunchback.

If Igor has the time to find a phone, reattach his fingers and call you instead of doing his job, then he clearly doesn't need an assistant. I'll tell him during his next evaluation. I'll also explain to him that he's not supposed to discriminate based on disability. An assistant with a straight back is just as capable as a hunchbacked one.

I didn't even think of it as a Razorback. Seen more of the Chevalier in its shoulders. But figuring that it came after all the rest, doesn't surprise me that fluff-wise it would be influenced by the past ones.

-Brandon F.

BrandonKF wrote:

For those who are completely WTFing over what it was I said, I mentioned that we should add a beard, in reference to an earlier comment about Manly Things.

And hey, know what, I'ma have fun with this, so ya'll and your discussions about what's overcosted/undercosted can keep it in PMs. :p

Serious, guys, can we not have fun???

I can't stop you from modelling your gear striders with facial hair. I can however choose to target them first if we ever play a game together to get those abominations off of the tabletop ASAP.

BrandonKF wrote:

Yes, snub cannon's oversized, I get it. We all knew it was coming anyway (though even I admit I wanted the North to go another route). That's not my business though.
-Brandon F.

As a fan and especially now freelancer, I'd say actually that it is exactly your business in a literal sense whereas it is our "business" as fans in a figurative sense. You may not have any power in making the said (bad) decision but it is your business to keep abreast of the changes.

warboss wrote:

BrandonKF wrote:

For those who are completely WTFing over what it was I said, I mentioned that we should add a beard, in reference to an earlier comment about Manly Things.

And hey, know what, I'ma have fun with this, so ya'll and your discussions about what's overcosted/undercosted can keep it in PMs. :p

Serious, guys, can we not have fun???

I can't stop you from modelling your gear striders with facial hair. I can however choose to target them first if we ever play a game together to get those abominations off of the tabletop ASAP.

Hey, I got it! Hunchback of Notre Dame, I can get some brown or green cloth and make a tattered robe for it too!

BrandonKF wrote:

Yes, snub cannon's oversized, I get it. We all knew it was coming anyway (though even I admit I wanted the North to go another route). That's not my business though.
-Brandon F.

As a fan and especially now freelancer, I'd say actually that it is exactly your business in a literal sense whereas it is our "business" as fans in a figurative sense. You may not have any power in making the said (bad) decision but it is your business to keep abreast of the changes.

This I do, though whether or not I maintain my status is in the hands of Arkritre Press LLC.

-Brandon F.

I followed up on the gear strider after the news was posted here and it seems there have been some slight developments for the better. Dave clarified that the larger snub is a "new" naval snub in the alpha (eh, sounds like a made up after the fact explanation but whatever...) but the good news is that they redesigned the model a bit. The head looks a bit better and the axe is now a polearm. The full text is spoilered below after the pics. I would also point out the distinct lack of facial hair in the new version as well.

New


Old

 warboss wrote:
[..] but I don't think there is any justification for undercosting them just to sell shiny new model. That last part is completely without morals but I suspect the company needs the cash infusion (conjecture obviously) with books now simply not selling.

There is that, and having had my few email or Skype discussions with el presidente it's also in large part just like Mrondeau said; if Robert thinks something will sell to at least one person it will get created, regardless of what it does to the setting.
The Lynx being yet another example, instead of being some kind of Ferret offshoot.

BrandonKF wrote:
We all knew it was coming anyway (though even I admit I wanted the North to go another route).

No, it wasn't. I've mentioned this before, but if no one is listening, oh well, it doesn't mean a thing to me.

During a development stretching back to before April of 2012, then actual progress earlier last Summer 2013, until the final ~3 months or so of work last Fall and Winter there was not one single solitary mention I am aware of about a Northern GS until Robert saw that one offhand comment made May 4th on Facebook. All of the directives handed down from Robert during my tenure, or during our very few conversations, were exclusively about things like ensuring X model had more exposure or else involving the standard Northern Striders, including both the Juggernaut and Wolf as added by one of the devs.

I also posted el presidente's message about "creating" the Lion/Scimitar GS earlier in the thread:

On Mon, 5/5/14, Robert Dubois wrote wrote:[..] I'm also going to rename or remove completely the Lion gear and use the name on the New Lion Gear Strider that's being designed now, it will be an upgrade to the Strike squad and it will be in its own Gear Strider combat group, I'm making up the data card for it this afternoon and I'll send it you way once its done to get TV costs for the variants. Reason I'm doing this is the name of the ebook is Lion's Wrath and I want the Lion to be kickass, its going to have a big snub cannon with 0 Acc and snipered, we looked over the Wolf strider and it didn't really bring anything to the table that players would want to pay the high cost of a strider for.

Much of the Northern material was specifically intended to not be the same as every other faction - and then over time that idea was completely discarded before finally the material itself was rendered into a partially nonfunctional state.
Like say deleting lines to add a GS etc etc into a certain combat group, never noticing that the deleted lines make it utterly impossible for an intended faction to get one of it's specifically created variants, but that this loadout is still present in the datacards.

BrandonKF wrote:
And hey, know what, I'ma have fun with this, so ya'll and your discussions about what's overcosted/undercosted can keep it in PMs.

On Sat, 5/10/14, Robert Dubois wrote wrote:Alexander what's your problem, [..] Your attitude is just terrible, if you can't bring anything positive to the table then you should just keep it to yourself.

I guess absolutely any unenthusiastic and non-positive statements should be kept out of any discussion about DP9 or it's offshoot companies, anywhere, by anyone, forever.

BrandonKF wrote:
Serious, guys, can we not have fun???

The problem happening is that if players don't find something that the Pod creates "fun" they are forced to accept it nevertheless.
So in effect the wishes of a few dozen, or less, people are dictating the entirety of how everyone else must experience a hobby where they may have just as much of an investment as the vocal favored.

But it's already been established in this thread that those favored few are the only folks that matter to the Pod at all, so in this instance good behavior has once again been rewarded.

/shrug

 warboss wrote:
I followed up on the gear strider after the news was posted here and it seems there have been some slight developments for the better. Dave clarified that the larger snub is a "new" naval snub in the alpha (eh, sounds like a made up after the fact explanation but whatever...)

Dave wrote:In the beta rules that stub cannon is officially a NSC (Naval Snub Cannon), officially one step bigger than a heavy snub cannon.

It never ceases to amaze me how inept both Dave and Robert continually prove themselves to be, even for things so simple as posting on their own web forums.

It was also very nice of the Pod to rip-off and/or reuse oneeye's idea just to cover adding something that once again doesn't fit into the current rules.

_
_

 warboss wrote:
I followed up on the gear strider after the news was posted here and it seems there have been some slight developments for the better. Dave clarified that the larger snub is a "new" naval snub in the alpha (eh, sounds like a made up after the fact explanation but whatever...)

I'll add to Smilodon's answer above that Dave's answer about the Mammoth and Scimitar is pure, genuine bs. The kind that'd make me doubt he even plays the game at all. Seriously.

IceRaptor wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

Buckshot ammo
Buckshot ammo fills the air with heavy pellets instead of a single larger projectile. That makes them more effective against unprotected targets and diminishes the need to aim. That also reduces penetration capabilities, but it is still effective against joints, auxiliary systems and similarly unprotected equipment on armored units.

In game terms, the attacker receives a +1 Acc bonus, halves the DM and adds the AI trait to the weapon (that makes it have the same DM against infantry as a HMG at full auto [EDIT: well, the FGC at least ^_^]).

When attacking non-infantry targets, the weapon doesn't reduce the Armor of the unit, but it will roll twice in the systems damage table, rerolling any "crew" result. Also, it can't score Heavy damage hits.

Probably a bit too wordy, but... how about it? Too much, too little?

I think that does a pretty good job myself. The only change I would make would be to say that 'Treat any Heavy Damage hits as Light Damage hits.' instead of saying you just don't get Heavy damage hits. Against Tanks (and other fortified targets) it's going to be hard to score enough MoS * DAM to actually generate systems damage, unless I'm recalling incorrectly? But against a Gear you can really sandpaper them down to nothing.

Yeah, I meant to say that any "heavy damage" hit should be rolled as a light one. But rereading the rules I've just made up, I think it actually wouldn't work as I intended. My idea was to, as you say, be able to "sandpaper to death" stuff and wreck havoc on their systems while doing it. But with the rule as written, the FGC would still be able to overkill a unit in one lucky shot, and not removing Armor on each hit would make it more difficult to degrade the unit bit by bit (as Tactical has no damage boxes).

Ok, second try:


Buckshot ammo
Buckshot ammo fills the air with heavy pellets instead of a single larger projectile. That makes them more effective against unprotected targets and diminishes the need to aim. That also reduces penetration capabilities, but it is still effective against joints, auxiliary systems and similarly unprotected equipment on armored units.

In game terms, the attacker receives a +1 Acc bonus, halves the DM and adds the AI trait to the weapon.

When attacking non-infantry targets, the weapon will roll twice in the systems damage table, rerolling any "crew" result. The second roll will always be treated as a "light damage" result. Additionally, the weapon can't get an Overkill result: any Overkill result will be treated as a "heavy damage" hit.

This will allow the FGC to "sandpaper units to death" (removing armor on each hit will do that), it will make additional systems damage, and won't be able to kill anything in one shot, unless the weapon rolls really well on the systems damage table. What do you think?

warboss wrote:I followed up on the gear strider after the news was posted here and it seems there have been some slight developments for the better. Dave clarified that the larger snub is a "new" naval snub in the alpha (eh, sounds like a made up after the fact explanation but whatever...) but the good news is that they redesigned the model a bit. The head looks a bit better and the axe is now a polearm. The full text is spoilered below after the pics. I would also point out the distinct lack of facial hair in the new version as well.

...seriously, the term "naval snub cannon" is an oxymoron.

warboss wrote:I followed up on the gear strider after the news was posted here and it seems there have been some slight developments for the better. Dave clarified that the larger snub is a "new" naval snub in the alpha (eh, sounds like a made up after the fact explanation but whatever...) but the good news is that they redesigned the model a bit. The head looks a bit better and the axe is now a polearm. The full text is spoilered below after the pics. I would also point out the distinct lack of facial hair in the new version as well.

Noooooooooo! No facial hair? We must Murphy this up!

Smilodon_UP wrote:

BrandonKF wrote:
We all knew it was coming anyway (though even I admit I wanted the North to go another route).

No, it wasn't. I've mentioned this before, but if no one is listening, oh well, it doesn't mean a thing to me.

During a development stretching back to before April of 2012, then actual progress earlier last Summer 2013, until the final ~3 months or so of work last Fall and Winter there was not one single solitary mention I am aware of about a Northern GS until Robert saw that one offhand comment made May 4th on Facebook. All of the directives handed down from Robert during my tenure, or during our very few conversations, were exclusively about things like ensuring X model had more exposure or else involving the standard Northern Striders, including both the Juggernaut and Wolf as added by one of the devs.

I also posted el presidente's message about "creating" the Lion/Scimitar GS earlier in the thread:

On Mon, 5/5/14, Robert Dubois wrote wrote:[..] I'm also going to rename or remove completely the Lion gear and use the name on the New Lion Gear Strider that's being designed now, it will be an upgrade to the Strike squad and it will be in its own Gear Strider combat group, I'm making up the data card for it this afternoon and I'll send it you way once its done to get TV costs for the variants. Reason I'm doing this is the name of the ebook is Lion's Wrath and I want the Lion to be kickass, its going to have a big snub cannon with 0 Acc and snipered, we looked over the Wolf strider and it didn't really bring anything to the table that players would want to pay the high cost of a strider for.

Much of the Northern material was specifically intended to not be the same as every other faction - and then over time that idea was completely discarded before finally the material itself was rendered into a partially nonfunctional state. Like say deleting lines to add a GS etc etc into a certain combat group, never noticing that the deleted lines make it utterly impossible for an intended faction to get one of it's specifically created variants, but that this loadout is still present in the datacards.

BrandonKF wrote:
And hey, know what, I'ma have fun with this, so ya'll and your discussions about what's overcosted/undercosted can keep it in PMs.

On Sat, 5/10/14, Robert Dubois wrote wrote:Alexander what's your problem, [..] Your attitude is just terrible, if you can't bring anything positive to the table then you should just keep it to yourself.

I guess absolutely any unenthusiastic and non-positive statements should be kept out of any discussion about DP9 or it's offshoot companies, anywhere, by anyone, forever.

BrandonKF wrote:
Serious, guys, can we not have fun???

The problem happening is that if players don't find something that the Pod creates "fun" they are forced to accept it nevertheless.
So in effect the wishes of a few dozen, or less, people are dictating the entirety of how everyone else must experience a hobby where they may have just as much of an investment as the vocal favored.

But it's already been established in this thread that those favored few are the only folks that matter to the Pod at all, so in this instance good behavior has once again been rewarded.

/shrug

I made a suggestion, not been on 'good behavior', if that's what you're implying. I'm not with Dream Pod 9. In truth I'm not 'with' anyone. I'm a freelancer, the same as you Smilodon.

And again, I'll ask both you and HudsonD, would you please test the rules for my HG/Infinity cross-over? I would really enjoy getting your feedback, because I know you guys love the setting and I would like to have your input. And yes, even your criticisms. I would take Albertorius' and mrondeau's criticisms as well, and IceRaptor no doubt. I'll even give warboss a pass, though the whole thing about not wanting a Manly Murphy beard on Gears hurts me to my core.

You're all remarkably dedicated individuals, and I would like to hear from you. Seriously, no sarcasm, no bs, I want and I am asking for your help.

God bless, all. And Happy Independence Day to my fellow Americans.

-Brandon F.

I'll gladly test it out later this summer, Brandon, but I'm honestly just waiting for the v3 Infinity to come out. I don't want to start learning the rules only to have to change it again in a few months. I'll be picking up the rulebook to check out the system once it is updated.

Certainly warboss. Although that means I'll need to save up some myself. *stares at wallet*

-Brandon F.

 warboss wrote:
I'll gladly test it out later this summer, Brandon, but I'm honestly just waiting for the v3 Infinity to come out. I don't want to start learning the rules only to have to change it again in a few months. I'll be picking up the rulebook to check out the system once it is updated.

Learning the current rules won't flub you when then new ones come out. From what I've seen so far, you'll be able to adjust VERY quickly. Considering the Loss of Lieutenant rules currently are a bit of a fustercluck, the new ones will be much more fluid.

Always a good time to learn! If you're ever in the Bmore area I'll run you through some games! I'll make sure beers are in the fridge.

BrandonKF wrote:

Smilodon_UP wrote:

BrandonKF wrote:
Serious, guys, can we not have fun???

The problem happening is that if players don't find something that the Pod creates "fun" they are forced to accept it nevertheless.
So in effect the wishes of a few dozen, or less, people are dictating the entirety of how everyone else must experience a hobby where they may have just as much of an investment as the vocal favored.

But it's already been established in this thread that those favored few are the only folks that matter to the Pod at all, so in this instance good behavior has once again been rewarded.

/shrug

I made a suggestion, not been on 'good behavior', if that's what you're implying. I'm not with Dream Pod 9. In truth I'm not 'with' anyone. I'm a freelancer

That one wasn't wholly at you specifically, but just to indicate a symptom of the larger issue that is occurring.

It should never be acceptable for one player to ask for something and see it implemented at the expense of everyone else across the entire player-base, to include overriding months or years of work into a piss-poor release requiring multiple attempts to fix problems that didn't previously exist before whatever inclusion(s).

It should never be acceptable for a small handful of never critical players to have their desires affect how everyone else must play the game.

But unfortunately this is how Robert has chosen to try and keep the Pod in business, and that isn't going to change.

BrandonKF wrote:
And again, I'll ask both you and HudsonD, would you please test the rules for my HG/Infinity cross-over? I would really enjoy getting your feedback, because I know you guys love the setting and I would like to have your input. And yes, even your criticisms.

As I guess I haven't been clear enough before this, what have I ever posted anywhere that would lead you to believe I find Infinity's mechanics something I want to use to play a ported version of Heavy Gear, even if I wouldn't have to test it out by myself.

I don't like mecha oriented gameplay.
I don't like "hero" units in games involving mechanized vehicles.
I don't like using meters high and multi-ton combat vehicles as powered armor troopers.
I don't like mecha melee, or even the assumption that it is a viable tactic beyond desperation.

While it may have some points in it's favor, Infinity is set-up to allow those things.

I do not find the idea at all "fun," but you keep expecting me to regardless of my own mindset.


IME fan created Heavy Gear rulesets are never going to work for most folks, because unless the creator(s) have the objectivity to include everything they personally hate about a setting no one would ever look at it, let alone use it.
But at the same time, if the revamp into another ruleset does include things players loath and find silly, they won't be using it either.

It's a total Catch-22.

_
_

The rules for Thunder Run aren't set up for 'hero' units. There isn't a named character in the bunch. Unless you're meaning a heavy unit 'rambo-ing' into the fray... which though it does happen, is usually met with the likely results.

Though there are rules for Melee, because it happens, but no units are set up to run up and punch things. Even in Infinity, just because you have an explosive CCW or something crazy on you giant deathrobot doesn't mean you want to use it instead of an HMG or something.

The chap was just asking for a hand and/or your thoughts. I think a simple 'No thanks not interested' would have sufficed.

If you don't like meter high multi-ton combat vehicles as exactly what they are built for then why do you even like Heavy Gear? The whole appeal of the units is that they can mimic human movements on a larger scale. Kneeling, running, maneuvering, climbing, etc. They're still big heavy war machines, and 'more nimble' doesn't mean they're suddenly all ninjas.

 Smilodon_UP wrote:
I don't like mecha oriented gameplay.

Can you elaborate further on that part given the game genre we're talking about? Is this part of/related to your dislike in the alpha for the new use of the term mecha instead of gear?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Chemical Cutthroat wrote:
Learning the current rules won't flub you when then new ones come out. From what I've seen so far, you'll be able to adjust VERY quickly. Considering the Loss of Lieutenant rules currently are a bit of a fustercluck, the new ones will be much more fluid.

Always a good time to learn! If you're ever in the Bmore area I'll run you through some games! I'll make sure beers are in the fridge.

Thanks for the offer and the recap. The devil though is in the details and if the new rules are seemingly coming out only in a few months, I'd rather just learn the future-proof (at least for 3-5 years) rules as a foundation for my understanding.