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 IceRaptor wrote:

I lobbied for change to D10 internally - primarily to Jason, but also to Dave. In both cases it was discarded more for business reasons, more than anything else. I did note that while D10s don't fix the issues with Sil's modifiers, it does water them down significantly enough that most players would be happy with the result. But the desire to ditch the multiplication and division steps overruled the idea of simply keeping Sil and using D10s instead of D6s. I tried to get them into MA as well - but the business call that D6s were more common was made and my hands were tied.

I'm personally quite fond of D10s, especially with a Sil style 'roll and keep highest' - but the business side simply never wanted to explore that possibility :(

I think I mentioned in a short-lived thread on the topic that if anything, it'd be a good way to help differentiate the game from others. I certainly wouldn't switch just for that, but if it also made the math work better...

ferrous wrote:

And yeah, the banning and pruning, just makes the place much more of a yes-man echo chamber than it already was. Which is a shame, seems like they are managing to shrink their fanbase over time. Though the KS will really be the determinant.

In the interest of clarity, no one to my knowledge has been banned or even officially warned individually by Dave beyond the community wide warning he gave publicly gave everyone. Technically, Smilodon was banned by Robert from the forum but that is a different story that can be obtained by reading his old posts from a few months ago in this thread.

Edit: Wrong thread, nevermind.

Anyone want to take bets as to how Heavy Gear's KS will do versus CAV? I honestly have no idea which way it will go. I'm mostly amazed that CAV has gotten as much money as it has.

My guesstimate is about 5 to 10k $US.

I'm more pessimistic. My guesstimate is between 5 to 20k$.

 warboss wrote:
Well... he did specifically ask to share the HG news and this is news.

ferrous wrote:
Anyone want to take bets as to how Heavy Gear's KS will do versus CAV? I honestly have no idea which way it will go. I'm mostly amazed that CAV has gotten as much money as it has.

I'll leave the shared posts up a few days to a week, but given even the active member count out of around 22,000 folks there has been absolutely zero activity on any of the reshares between the three or four G+ gaming communities, including the Heavy Gear group.
In fact, for one group my reshare has been all but buried under new posts just since late last night.
Which taken in sum doesn't indicate a whole lot of good things for the kind of name recognition the Pod is depending on this Fall for their KS attempt.
But then again, the Pod has proven in the past to not understand at all how under-exposed their company and titles actually are outside their own forum and Facebook venues.

 warboss wrote:
LOL, he even locked the gencon roll call thread where I asked for an update on the fan initiative to play a game of HG at the con that he had nothing to do with.

mrondeau wrote:

Firebreak wrote:I guess convention goers need to buy him more drinks.

That's a perfect example of DP9. First, they don't want customers, they want "friends." Friends that pay for whatever they have to sell, work for free, keep telling them that they are the best, and buy whatever they have to sell again.
Second, they don't realize that the whole point of a playtest (or any form of feedback) is for players to hear grievances! That's what it's for! If you are happy after a meeting with testers, they are not doing their jobs.

 Balance wrote:
I have tried to make the point to the TPTB that shutting down a conversation on a forum doesn't kill the conversation, it just moves it elsewhere. Where there's no real way to respond, at least.

ferrous wrote:
And yeah, the banning and pruning, just makes the place much more of a yes-man echo chamber than it already was. Which is a shame, seems like they are managing to shrink their fanbase over time. Though the KS will really be the determinant.

The disconnect between Dave constantly promoting "open" discussion while simultaneously asking for email-based feedback he says he can't directly answer, yet all the while ignoring if not deleting anything he doesn't want to hear, has long ago passed the point of being just ordinary silliness.

mrondeau wrote:

Firebreak wrote:However, I, for one, am glad that market research on groceries is directly applicable to the art in traditional games.

That non-sequitur was really not sequituring. I think he was trying to say that having a choice of art style (in the same book?) is good, because customers want choice ?
Or something like that. I would have to cut coffee completely for a few months to understand that logic.

My question is where is "all" of this art even coming from, because the last any product had essentially new art beyond a token few model images was either FiF or the last Gear-Up emag.
Not to mention, most everything else was generated by the old-guard Pod prior to the last decade of mismanagement under Robert.

 Balance wrote:
The September Update thread got pretty heavily moderated. I don't agree with every comment that was moderated, but i do think trying to answer most of them would be better than hiding them.

 warboss wrote:
There are a fair amount of missing posts that were there after mine. [..] but locking, pruning, and warning just exacerbate the problem if none of the valid issues are addressed. I can always gripe here (within the scope of the Dakka rules of course) and [Kevin?] and Dave can't do much about that.
If Dave doesn't want open discussion, he likely won't get it then but it would be naive to think it won't have consequences that affect the future KS.
In any case, I just saw your post in the update thread. Thanks for that.

Yes Balance, I think that was very classy of you with the point about how not everybody can go to Gencon. Even if they have the money, not everyone likes crowds or can get that kind of time off and not need/want to do something with family.
Dave's comment about drinking is just ignorant though, and totally smacks of hubris combined with an unhealthy dose of cluelessness.
His constant conditions on which people he will listen too, and how, is getting to be worse than el presidente's behavior.

Like say when he deleted more of his own comments just now in the September Update thread, thus modding a mod.

 Albertorius wrote:
Also, according to the latest feedback, the SECCOM Cheetahs are going to be the Pod's briefest vehicle ever, or whereabouts.

 Balance wrote:
What I like less is retconing entire designs out of the game and such. It's disrespectful to the game and the players, I feel.
I've occasionally said that at this point Heavy Gear games are almost akin to a WWII or other historical game in that there's a ton of background (occasionally contradictory) and the developers need to work with that, not try to change it.
If a WWII game can't support King Tigers and Shermans on the same field, that's a flaw in the game, not a flaw in the setting.

The cherry-picking of which models and variants do get included during each retread DP9 puts out seems to be getting ever more blatant in terms of faction favoring, incoherency, inconsistency, and lack of overarching vision.

_
_

 Smilodon_UP wrote:

Balance, I think that was very classy of you with the point about how not everybody can go to Gencon. Even if they have the money

Even when I did go yearly to gencon and was unhappy with the pod after the rafm/1st edition switch, I didn't go to the booth yearly to chew them out. I simply told them how unhappy I was as a customer the first year and then simply ignored them with zero purchases for almost a decade. I wouldn't spend my precious time off on vacation getting aggravated with them. I suspect for every one of us that whines publicly, there are at least a hundred former customers who simply moved on without a peep.

Dave edited himself and hid my comment. Not sure quite "why?" for either, but that's his deal and his choice. He doesn't seem to like to talk to me. I have no idea why. Maybe I've been a dick to him. I don't know. I don't think so.

I've mostly withdrawn from the DP9 forums as I just can't get excited about the beta so far. I don't like that. it depresses me. I would like to be proud of being involved, even int he tangential way I have been with some past projects, but I feel my image of the way forward is very different from the company's. Admittedly, they're closer to it, and more directly impacted if it crashes and burns, but I can't get excited and won't do any 'community manager' type stuff about a game I'm not at all excited about... And my attempts to make suggestions to excite me have been ignored or misinterpreted.

 Balance wrote:
I would like to be proud of being involved, even int he tangential way I have been with some past projects, but I feel my image of the way forward is very different from the company's.

What do you think they should do? Mind to share with the peanut gallery?

"Needs 350 Backers to purchase the Core Starter Box for success"

So it's not getting funded, then.

A very messy announcement for the KS has been posted over on the Pod forums.

Wow.. that is pretty ambitious. I guess I'm in for $1.00 then with maybe a model or two add on down the line during the pledge manager phase. I don't see a pdf only option for $5-10 which is the most what I planned to get initially.

ferrous wrote:
Anyone want to take bets as to how Heavy Gear's KS will do versus CAV? I honestly have no idea which way it will go.

 HudsonD wrote:
My guesstimate is about 5 to 10k $US.

mrondeau wrote:
I'm more pessimistic. My guesstimate is between 5 to 20k$.

 Firebreak wrote:
"Needs 350 Backers to purchase the Core Starter Box for success"
So it's not getting funded, then.
A very messy announcement for the KS has been posted over on the Pod forums.

Their KS plan needs $40,000 CAD to be funded?
Yeah, I just don't see that happening either. Getting even two hundred backers might be a more realistic limit, especially given how the Pod has chosen to structure things for the moment.

 Smilodon_UP wrote:

 Twelvecarpileup wrote:
I personally think this is a huge mistake... you're not going to get many players in with just the rulebook.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
[..]at least you find out if there is any real interest in your game any more (which from the sound of the thread is open to question)

In actuality there are about three dozen (36) somewhat active posters on the Pod forums, maybe a dozen or two (12-24) different folks over on Facebook, and maybe another half dozen or so (6) different folks between the Heavy Gear & HG:Assault communities for G+.
Even doubling that figure to account for players who don't post or never register on those kinds of sites isn't exactly what I think another gaming company would consider a reasonable "following."

_
_

I think 200 could actually be a very realistic number. Not 200 pledging serious money, but 200 people total. As much as the Pod has burned the fans, HG2 is still well-beloved, and this KS will ride the coattails of the ever-more impressive Heavy Gear Assault. I can easily see 200 people throwing a couple bucks in. As to getting enough people to pledge in the hundreds, no, I don't see that. Maybe there's one, really rich fan out there we don't know about.

 warboss wrote:
Wow.. that is pretty ambitious. I guess I'm in for $1.00 then with maybe a model or two add on down the line during the pledge manager phase. I don't see a pdf only option for $5-10 which is the most what I planned to get initially.

It really is. I can't help but notice that they are going to do the complete rulebook after the KS for their starter. I trust Corvus Belli to do it and don't feth it up. I don't trust DP9 as far as I can throw it. That is a recipe for disaster, because the ywill change their minds about anything before releasing the core book. That will not end well.

Other than that:

- A 3 players starter. That feels like the worst of both worlds (although I guess a 4p starter would be worse). Either you're making the core starter too big, or you could have done two factions better rounded.
- The northern minis are... 4 plastic Tigers and 4 plastic... Lions. That feels like a space marines starter without space marines.
- NuCoal. fething NUCOAL in the starter? Seriously? What kind of skeeved worldview of the setting are they trying to sell? Also, Arbalestier, because the NuCoal fething needed another Gear design.
- And another medium hovertank, too. Well, the CEF doesn't really have that much stuff... but it was designed that way on purpose, you know...
- 65 $CAD for 8 plastic Gears or 75 for 2 plastic tanks and 4 infantry squads... hm. That's about 8 bucks per plastic gear, which is... not really very cheap, for plastics.
- "International Backers pay exact shipping cost". Well, that helps.

I... well, I hope they have luck, but I expect this not funding. Also, as there's no pdf, there's nothing I could pledge for.

... Are they serious ? For real ? Yeah, I bet they are.

I maintain my first estimation of 5-10k $US, maybe slightly above, but under 15k. This is going to be entertaining, that's for sure.

Where did you post, Smilodon ?

Edit : Oh man, a pledge of 1$, and I can post link this thread in the KS comments. Oh man...

Also, I think this gives a pretty accurate idea of what sells more and what less.

Hint: the stuff further along the stretch goal tree is probably better selling (so they don't need it as much).

 Smilodon_UP wrote:

Yeah, I just don't see that happening either. Getting even two hundred backers might be a more realistic limit, especially given how the Pod has chosen to structure things for the moment.

You might be unpleasantly surprised. There's plenty of collectors and general mecha fans out there that may skew the numbers quite a bit. 350 is probably a reasonable target point if they can ride some of Heavy Gear Assault's publicity and / or tap into the larger Kickstarter minis gestalt. I believe that they are making a mistake targeting October, however - with the CAV KS recently closed, and the Robotech Tactics KS being so controversial, my guess would be that they are going to hit a tail end of 'miniatures fatigue'. I would have thought that a Feb - March launch might be smarter, to avoid the holiday buying sprees and give some more time for the current crop of minis games on KS to flush out. But then again, I'm not keeping a close eye on current KS minis developments, so I could be mistaken.

I'm perhaps overly pessimistic, If I had to put money down, I suspect this will get funded - and the line will limp further onward. If successful it might be just enough to give them the breathing room they need to have another 'blitz' like success - a 4-6 year shot in the arm.

The kickstarter will tell.

 Albertorius wrote:
That is a recipe for disaster, because they will change their minds about anything before releasing the core book. That will not end well.

Other than that:

- A 3 players starter. That feels like the worst of both worlds (although I guess a 4p starter would be worse). Either you're making the core starter too big, or you could have done two factions better rounded.
- The northern minis are... 4 plastic Tigers and 4 plastic... Lions. That feels like a space marines starter without space marines.
- NuCoal. fething NUCOAL in the starter? Seriously? What kind of skeeved worldview of the setting are they trying to sell? Also, Arbalestier, because the NuCoal fething needed another Gear design.
- And another medium hovertank, too. Well, the CEF doesn't really have that much stuff... but it was designed that way on purpose, you know...
- 65 $CAD for 8 plastic Gears or 75 for 2 plastic tanks and 4 infantry squads... hm. That's about 8 bucks per plastic gear, which is... not really very cheap, for plastics.
- "International Backers pay exact shipping cost". Well, that helps.

I... well, I hope they have luck, but I expect this not funding. Also, as there's no pdf, there's nothing I could pledge for.

Yeah... I'm not sure how the idea of a 3 player starter got picked up from all the ideas given in the thread and KS poll responses. There is a reason every other company either does a one or two player starter but I guess DP9 thinks they can make it work and know better than the rest of the industry (ever). I can't think of a single minis wargame that did something like that. I'd personally much rather have a 2 player starter for 2/3 the price or the same price but with LOTS of terrain.

I have to admit I'm a bit excited though about the nucoal gear in that it sounds like a hover support gear that would go well with my all hover force. I just hope that they make a metal version in the traditional route sooner so I don't have to wait 1-2 years for a plastic version. The shipping thing scared me as well given some of the outrageous quotes I used to get from the DP9 store for one blister of models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 HudsonD wrote:
... Are they serious ? For real ? Yeah, I bet they are.

I maintain my first estimation of 5-10k $US, maybe slightly above, but under 15k. This is going to be entertaining, that's for sure.

Where did you post, Smilodon ?

Edit : Oh man, a pledge of 1$, and I can post link this thread in the KS comments. Oh man...

Yup, that will be my pledge level as well for the time being. If the rules will eventually be free and since this has turned from a rules KS to a starter KS (instead of a rules with SOME minis KS like the most popular poll option indicated was the community favorite), I'll be in now for $1 plus maybe one or two of the arbalester (sp?) models if it is a hover FS gear.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 IceRaptor wrote:

I believe that they are making a mistake targeting October, however - with the CAV KS recently closed, and the Robotech Tactics KS being so controversial, my guess would be that they are going to hit a tail end of 'miniatures fatigue'. I would have thought that a Feb - March launch might be smarter, to avoid the holiday buying sprees and give some more time for the current crop of minis games on KS to flush out.

I think their key goal is to have it out by Gencon so a later date next year is pretty much flat out. That said...history would indicate that a company trying to put out such an ambitious project in a new medium (plastics) that they've never worked in during their first KS will not hit anything close to their initial release goal. It is possible though. If Robotech is any realistic indication, they'd be lucky to hit Christmas 2015 assuming they don't get too many stretch goals.

 warboss wrote:
Yeah... I'm not sure how the idea of a 3 player starter got picked up from all the ideas given in the thread and KS poll responses. There is a reason every other company either does a one or two player starter but I guess DP9 thinks they can make it work and know better than the rest of the industry (ever). I can't think of a single minis wargame that did something like that. I'd personally much rather have a 2 player starter for 2/3 the price or the same price but with LOTS of terrain.

I guess they could argue that the latest FoW starter has 3 armies, as it has british, american and german troops... >_>

I have to admit I'm a bit excited though about the nucoal gear in that it sounds like a hover support gear that would go well with my all hover force.

Every guy has its failings

Seriously now, cool that at least they're going for something useful, but I... I don't know. I still think that they have stolen too much of the CEF's thunder in that regards.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Heh. You know what? Now I'm tempted to do a full "Battle of Rahnguard" kit for myself with the stuff I have. That would be a fun side project for when I have time

 Albertorius wrote:

I guess they could argue that the latest FoW starter has 3 armies, as it has british, american and german troops... >_>

True... although it is never billed as a three player starter though and the allies are meant to only fight together in a allies vs axis type game. I haven't played enough of FOW to know whether adding brits to americans or vice versa is a standard thing or not. I'd have had a strong preference for ANY single TN faction versus CEF as the starter force just for visual variety. The interpolar war/Rahnguard thing is cool but doesn't really pop on the tabletop as much IMO.

I have to admit I'm a bit excited though about the nucoal gear in that it sounds like a hover support gear that would go well with my all hover force.

Every guy has its failings

Seriously now, cool that at least they're going for something useful, but I... I don't know. I still think that they have stolen too much of the CEF's thunder in that regards.

I really hope they release some of these new models in metal in the interim as well otherwise their short term profits between now and Summer 2015+ will be even worse. That would also cover their butts at least partly if they start to have issues in the new medium.

I do hope as well that Dave addresses some of the questions that popped up overnight (including my own) instead of just deleting them. I find it a bit odd that something big like this would be previewed late at night and not during the morning so as to respond to the potential feedback quicker.

I'm in the "you should go plastics" camp but I dunno. There are bigger things that should be addressed. A rules-only KS annoyed, because good lord they should be able to do that themselves at this point. But then I came on here and started reading some of the things the Pod has been doing, and seeing how Dave (at least) behaves and.... man. Maybe they DO need a KS just to get rules out.

Heavy Gear needs a consistent vision, for design, for art, for rules, for story, for release dates... There's just a lot of things I now think should be a much higher priority than plastics.

The KS for a new starter set confuses me. They are right in the middle of re-writing the rules and they are going to release a new starter set? What rules will they have in it? And what will happen when the new rules come out? Are they going to recall all the unsold Starter Sets and put in the new rules? Or will it be like it was back in the earlier Blitz day when you got three rule books and a piece of paper directing the player to the website for the most current rules?

I... wow. This just looks like a disaster/bad idea. They need to finish the rulebook first, then release a new starter set. Unless of course, the beta rules are so far along, that DP9 is confident that these are the final rules.

Or... OMG! Mind blown! A Kickstarter for a new edition, with a stretch goal for a new starter set! And even if that stretch goal isn't met, why not another Kickstarter for a new starter set?

These things so obvious to me... why can't DP9 see it?

 Tamwulf wrote:
The KS for a new starter set confuses me. They are right in the middle of re-writing the rules and they are going to release a new starter set? What rules will they have in it? And what will happen when the new rules come out? Are they going to recall all the unsold Starter Sets and put in the new rules? Or will it be like it was back in the earlier Blitz day when you got three rule books and a piece of paper directing the player to the website for the most current rules?

I... wow. This just looks like a disaster/bad idea. They need to finish the rulebook first, then release a new starter set. Unless of course, the beta rules are so far along, that DP9 is confident that these are the final rules.

Or... OMG! Mind blown! A Kickstarter for a new edition, with a stretch goal for a new starter set! And even if that stretch goal isn't met, why not another Kickstarter for a new starter set?

These things so obvious to me... why can't DP9 see it?

You're assuming they care. They don't. A solid, playable, well-balanced ruleset just isn't on their radar.

 Albertorius wrote:
Hint: the stuff further along the stretch goal tree is probably better selling (so they don't need it as much).

It might be argued as well those are models that due to the projected funding level the Pod doesn't want to actually produce anymore. Or whatever it is that does fit the "vision" TPTB have for the setting.
I notice as well the planned individual model prices didn't drop all that much from the regular storefront, just more of the same "Now you can buy (4) instead of (3) models for the same cost, but too bad if you only needed a couple."

Go figure on Dream Pod 9 still trying to screw over the folks backing them over the near future, so as to expressly revamp a big chunk of the company's production methods, instead of waiting till afterwards to do it.

 IceRaptor wrote:
I'm perhaps overly pessimistic, If I had to put money down, I suspect this will get funded - and the line will limp further onward.

I suppose it could happen.
Plus, there is always that annoying happenstance where unpleasant, ignorant, and/or outright evil folk quite commonly get rewarded as they desire.

 Albertorius wrote:
I can't help but notice that they are going to do the complete rulebook after the KS for their starter. I trust Corvus Belli to do it and don't feth it up. I don't trust DP9 as far as I can throw it. That is a recipe for disaster, because they will change their minds about anything before releasing the core book. That will not end well.

 Firebreak wrote:
There are bigger things that should be addressed. Heavy Gear needs a consistent vision, for design, for art, for rules, for story, for release dates... There's just a lot of things I now think should be a much higher priority than plastics.

 Tamwulf wrote:
The KS for a new starter set confuses me. They are right in the middle of re-writing the rules and they are going to release a new starter set? What rules will they have in it?
I... wow. This just looks like a disaster/bad idea. They need to finish the rulebook first, then release a new starter set. Unless of course, the beta rules are so far along, that DP9 is confident that these are the final rules.
These things so obvious to me... why can't DP9 see it?

 HudsonD wrote:
You're assuming they care. They don't. A solid, playable, well-balanced ruleset just isn't on their radar.

I would agree.
Once again TPTB found a way to get the focus off what is really wrong with their company and gaming title in a way that if even marginally successful will just let them keep going on exactly as before, no more, no less.

But come what may, it'll still be Robert Dubois as the entity trying to (mis)manage everything in his usual manner.
Yeah, lmfao - that is so going to end well for all concerned.

Folks need to consider long and hard, and then think again, before pledging any of their $$$ to his care for this attempt.

_
_

Well, I've held quiet this long, but since the Kickstarter's near I guess I'll chime in and answer the opening question of the thread. Though I've bought ~20 models and have had them for over a year and a half, I consider myself "never having played" since I've only had a few quick-start arena games with my wife.

The reasons I've never started playing are:

1. The mismanagement of the company.

2. The divisive community.

I'll elaborate on each with a wall of text.

The company:

Going in, I probably should have been alarmed by all the various editions of of the game and the hodgepodge of books needed to play just about anything. Still, I dug the models and the lore so I gave things a try. When buying my first models, the torsos were missing from the package and I could not build them. I emailed customer service twice and did not get a response for three weeks-- after posting in the forums, I was told that DP9 had great customer service and this was an anomaly. Robert himself them told me that I should have emailed him with the issue to begin with, rather than use the customer service email. A bit misleading and against common sense, but I emailed him and it was resolved within a week... Still a month after I purchased the minis.

So, I try and build up my oddball Peace River army. It was just a small badlands patrol, as I liked the idea thematically-- mostly Pit Bulls, Warriors, and a couple Gladiators. It was a weird army, I know, but despite the strange Priority Level system I made it legal. When the NuCoal book dropped, the army creation alarmed me. It was ridiculously complicated with the charts and regiment type ontop of everything; a quick look at these rules scared off one of my friends from the game entirely. I knew big changes were coming to army rules, and with how oddball my build was I would need to buy more models/change things. What I was unprepared for was a $5 PDF that told me out of my entire old army, I couldn't build a legal squad. Folks can complain about faction bias all they want, but the grass isn't green anywhere. I've also read the countless stories of players far, far more invested than me that had their extensive armies gutted.

The beta killed my interest in the new game system-- it distanced itself from all related sublines (Arena and Rally, which honestly was more appealing to me than Blitz) for no obvious improvement.

The community:

First of all, I am not attacking anyone here-- there are several familiar names from that board, and I have read a large bit of this thread. Many of you were closely involved with the development of the game and are justified in your discontent. Regardless, the Heavy Gear community has an astounding negativity to it that really scares away a lot of folks, something that existed even before recent times. I'm certainly not helping with that now, either!

For one, people get /really/ salty when you associate the game with the giant stompy robots the franchise was named after. "Heavy Gear is so much more than Gears!" "The old lore was so much better!"I've heard this since the early 2000s, and these claims mean nothing to potentially new players who's only mainstream exposure to the series were the video games and television show. I hear many players pining for the days of the 2nd edition lore and what "their" vision of Heavy Gear is; to people like me, the things Heavy Gear brings to mind are Khayr ad-Din dueling and the Black Talons. My vision of the setting isn't any less valid than any other player's.

It's pretty unwelcoming to see thread after thread about how the new lore is wrong, and liking any of these new developments (though many are ill thought-out) is a bad thing. I think NuCoal gears look pretty neat. Along this line of thinking, what largely killed my remaining interest in Heavy Gear was the announcement that there was going to be a new RPG-- that retconned things back to 2nd Edition. This seemed well-received by veterans, but to potential new players, I think it is even more cause of hesitancy. Getting into a new franchise and learning new lore is daunting. Getting into a new franchise with two almost-the-same-but-not-quite timelines is even moreso. It almost feels like when I go to the local Battletech group and the older guys tell me that I can't play my mechs from a 20 year-old book with their mechs from a 24 year-old book because my stuff is "too new and cheesy." (And I don't even play Clan!) Only this time, of course, the divisive split is licensed by the company. Guess this part can double under #1, too.

Anyways, huge newbie rant complete!

Heh, i find the complaint about negativity/griping is kind of funny, since it's virtually the same no matter what gaming system. 40k is full of grognards complaining about stuff, has been since every edition, ever. Battletech as well. I'm sure if I played Infinity or Warmachine, I'd see it there, though they are newer, so perhaps there are less for people to cling onto as 'it was better when X"
It's pretty much unavoidable. Games Workshop's solution was to just get rid of their own forum.

That said, I totally agree, that Nucoal's army building was a giant misstep =)

The new RPG will actually be the third (or technically fourth) version of the lore. Post-Black Talons, all bets are off. There was Heavy Gear 2, later retconned to be a dramatic retelling of events. There were the Storyline books, which continued past HG2 but were mostly ignored after a certain point in future work. There's Blitz!, which has been a stop-start mess with several semi-abortive attempts at the War for Terra Nova. And now the RPG, which apparently will reset things back in time, as well as alter things.

Outside of that, there's the TV show, which was also turned into an "extreme reality TV show" in-setting, and soon Heavy Gear Assault, a new online game, which I have to assume will have nothing to do with any of the various ...eras? Settings? Timelines?

ferrous wrote:Heh, i find the complaint about negativity/griping is kind of funny, since it's virtually the same no matter what gaming system. 40k is full of grognards complaining about stuff, has been since every edition, ever. Battletech as well. I'm sure if I played Infinity or Warmachine, I'd see it there, though they are newer, so perhaps there are less for people to cling onto as 'it was better when X"
It's pretty much unavoidable. Games Workshop's solution was to just get rid of their own forum.

Yeah, I agree that complaining about complaining is a bit silly, and you're right-- most all games have this issue. I think one problem is that Heavy Gear has such a small community that these (often legitimate) complaints are that much more noticeable-- heck, the only real thread you find here on Dakka for HG is this one. Over forty pages of why we don't play! That's amusing in a sad way.

Also, by the sound of the modding, it seems like DP9 might be heading that way!

Firebreak wrote:The new RPG will actually be the third (or technically fourth) version of the lore. Post-Black Talons, all bets are off. There was Heavy Gear 2, later retconned to be a dramatic retelling of events. There were the Storyline books, which continued past HG2 but were mostly ignored after a certain point in future work. There's Blitz!, which has been a stop-start mess with several semi-abortive attempts at the War for Terra Nova. And now the RPG, which apparently will reset things back in time, as well as alter things.

Outside of that, there's the TV show, which was also turned into an "extreme reality TV show" in-setting, and soon Heavy Gear Assault, a new online game, which I have to assume will have nothing to do with any of the various ...eras? Settings? Timelines?

Woah. I stand corrected on my rant, then-- that problem was already way worse than I realized.