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 Firebreak wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 doc1234 wrote:
Or it could just be vanman trying to convince us there is no war in Eurasia

I always try to expect the best of everyone, at least until they prove me wrong ^_^

That is truly the best attitude to take in life, but you have to admit, it is difficult to hold in regards to people involved in making Heavy Gear products.

I'lll... refrain to answer that one

So... vanman's was a drive-by comment, then? Shame.

I'll give it till Monday before I consider it as such. I know the NDA is lifted but I'd be surprised if he was authorized to post what he did.

If he's the "chair" (man of the board?) as Brandon mentioned, he likely has a hand in what goes in the NDA for the peons but isn't necessarily bound by it. It would have been nice though for him to address something other than the finances.

If he's the "chair", it would have been nice for there to be less snarkiness.

Kevin Siembieda Syndrome (KSS) is very contagious.

 warboss wrote:
If he's the "chair" (man of the board?) as Brandon mentioned, he likely has a hand in what goes in the NDA for the peons but isn't necessarily bound by it. It would have been nice though for him to address something other than the finances.

Don't know what else you want him to address.

The looks of the Gears?

Most of those playing the game have agreed they like it now.

The Sandboxr deal? Unlikely to go forward, as far as I know. It might have been a one-off thought that never reached fruition, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

BrandonKF wrote:
Don't know what else you want him to address.

The looks of the Gears?

Most of those playing the game have agreed they like it now.

The Sandboxr deal? Unlikely to go forward, as far as I know. It might have been a one-off thought that never reached fruition, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Yup, those would be the two I specfically mentioned. I would point out that with the current pay to play scheme for the HGA game, you're naturally weeding out the majority folks who don't like the designs. Why would they pay to play something they don't visually like? That of course segways into another question where this supposedly free to play game is charging currently. I play World of Tanks so I'm not a complete stranger to freemium games but in WOT you have a dozen completely free tanks for each faction for each "pay" tank that faction gets. In HGA, you have to pay $70 to get the core 5 northern gears... the standard ones! We're not talking about the WOT-equivalents like getting the hunter for free but the hunter commando is a store bought version but rather every standard gear is a pay to play one. I'm not sure how they'll convert that over to a free to play game later. I guess you could say that your paying for the privelege of being an alpha tester and for the pleasure of occasionally playing a half done buggy game (judging from posted youtube videos) but that pricing scheme is worriesome. I'll freely admit that I'm not in their target audience as a console gamer for that but I suspect it's worriesome to at least some of those who are.

Sad to hear about the Sandboxr deal. Was there an official confirmation or is that just a conclusion you're making from almost a year of silence on the matter since the announcement? That was the one part I was excited about so I'm sad (but not surprised) to hear it's not happening. I would have bought a couple to soup up my northern force.

Isn't Star Citizen (or one of those ship based games that'v come off kickstarter) following a similar format though? The ships are up for sale individually (and some are damn expensive, I recall hearing an alien fighter went for a few hundred dollars awhile back), and that seems to be doing fairly successfully.

BrandonKF wrote:

 warboss wrote:
If he's the "chair" (man of the board?) as Brandon mentioned, he likely has a hand in what goes in the NDA for the peons but isn't necessarily bound by it. It would have been nice though for him to address something other than the finances.

Don't know what else you want him to address.

The looks of the Gears?

Most of those playing the game have agreed they like it now.

The Sandboxr deal? Unlikely to go forward, as far as I know. It might have been a one-off thought that never reached fruition, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

I was going for "the questions I asked", for starters.

 doc1234 wrote:
Isn't Star Citizen (or one of those ship based games that'v come off kickstarter) following a similar format though? The ships are up for sale individually (and some are damn expensive, I recall hearing an alien fighter went for a few hundred dollars awhile back), and that seems to be doing fairly successfully.

No idea as I don't follow or play Star Citizen. Is Star Citizen the game that took in multiple millions in funding? WOT has some expensive tanks ($50 each) but, again, those are options in additon to one or two tanks that are attainable for free for the same faction at the same tier. The key is to make the purchase a viable (but not overpowered) choice for variety of play. I'm not sure how they'd do that in HGA with the goto gears like Hunters, Jaguars, Grizzlies, Cheetahs, and Tigers for sale. Maybe they'll change that with the freemium release later on... don't know. Sure would be nice to find out though from an official source.

BrandonKF wrote:

 warboss wrote:
If he's the "chair" (man of the board?) as Brandon mentioned, he likely has a hand in what goes in the NDA for the peons but isn't necessarily bound by it. It would have been nice though for him to address something other than the finances.

Don't know what else you want him to address.
The looks of the Gears?
Most of those playing the game have agreed they like it now.

 warboss wrote:
Yup, those would be the two I specifically mentioned. I would point out that with the current pay to play scheme for the HGA game, you're naturally weeding out the majority folks who don't like the designs. Why would they pay to play something they don't visually like? That of course segue ways into another question where this supposedly free to play game is charging currently. [..]

Werewolf486

at 6:31pm on 27Aug2015 wrote:So how many Heavy Gear video games have been made? I see like two. So one from October 31, 1997 and another from June 23, 1999. That's it right? HG1 and HG2? So what I'm seeing is that some of you would rather not play a new Heavy Gear that's a bit different then the really old ones from 18 and 16 years ago. A Heavy Gear that has up to date graphics and that has more depth than any mecha game on the market when it's done, you'd refuse to play that. It doesn't make any sense to me. Sorry but that's just not making any sense to me at all.

I've been playing HGA since day one of the alpha and watched it grow from the first day into a better game each patch. There's a great group of Devs working on it that treats the community very well. It's well on it's way to being a great game and with way more depth and looks to bring the rich lore of HG to the video gaming world and immerse the player into Terra Nova, not just be a shooter game.

As if this game needed more to make folks hesitant about even trying it out in the first place given the current $$$ cost.

Trent the Wanderer seems like an okay guy, and Blackfang does admittedly make some good points on occasion, but this other uber-fan, for a game still basically in development, ...yeah, I'm not seeing a positive in that given what the community is already like for so many other shooter/MMO games.

/shrug

_
_

 warboss wrote:

BrandonKF wrote:
Don't know what else you want him to address.

The looks of the Gears?

Most of those playing the game have agreed they like it now.

The Sandboxr deal? Unlikely to go forward, as far as I know. It might have been a one-off thought that never reached fruition, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Yup, those would be the two I specfically mentioned. I would point out that with the current pay to play scheme for the HGA game, you're naturally weeding out the majority folks who don't like the designs. Why would they pay to play something they don't visually like? That of course segways into another question where this supposedly free to play game is charging currently. I play World of Tanks so I'm not a complete stranger to freemium games but in WOT you have a dozen completely free tanks for each faction for each "pay" tank that faction gets. In HGA, you have to pay $70 to get the core 5 northern gears... the standard ones! We're not talking about the WOT-equivalents like getting the hunter for free but the hunter commando is a store bought version but rather every standard gear is a pay to play one. I'm not sure how they'll convert that over to a free to play game later. I guess you could say that your paying for the privelege of being an alpha tester and for the pleasure of occasionally playing a half done buggy game (judging from posted youtube videos) but that pricing scheme is worriesome. I'll freely admit that I'm not in their target audience as a console gamer for that but I suspect it's worriesome to at least some of those who are.

Sad to hear about the Sandboxr deal. Was there an official confirmation or is that just a conclusion you're making from almost a year of silence on the matter since the announcement? That was the one part I was excited about so I'm sad (but not surprised) to hear it's not happening. I would have bought a couple to soup up my northern force.

My conclusion on the Sandboxr thing.

Plus I've sat in on several 'Friday nights with the developers' on Teamspeak.

The game isn't freemium or free-to-play.

BrandonKF wrote:

My conclusion on the Sandboxr thing.

Plus I've sat in on several 'Friday nights with the developers' on Teamspeak.

The game isn't freemium or free-to-play.

Thanks for the clarification. When did they drop the freemium model? (that whole "free to choose" slogan thing they had but you could opt out with a single payment IIRC)

 Smilodon_UP wrote:

Werewolf486

at 6:31pm on 27Aug2015 wrote:So how many Heavy Gear video games have been made? I see like two. So one from October 31, 1997 and another from June 23, 1999. That's it right? HG1 and HG2? So what I'm seeing is that some of you would rather not play a new Heavy Gear that's a bit different then the really old ones from 18 and 16 years ago. A Heavy Gear that has up to date graphics and that has more depth than any mecha game on the market when it's done, you'd refuse to play that. It doesn't make any sense to me. Sorry but that's just not making any sense to me at all.

I've been playing HGA since day one of the alpha and watched it grow from the first day into a better game each patch. There's a great group of Devs working on it that treats the community very well. It's well on it's way to being a great game and with way more depth and looks to bring the rich lore of HG to the video gaming world and immerse the player into Terra Nova, not just be a shooter game.

As if this game needed more to make folks hesitant about even trying it out in the first place given the current $$$ cost.

Trent the Wanderer seems like an okay guy, and Blackfang does admittedly make some good points on occasion, but this other uber-fan, for a game still basically in development, ...yeah, I'm not seeing a positive in that given what the community is already like for so many other shooter/MMO games.

/shrug


_

Uber-Fan here! Yes I love the game, yes I backed MekTek and yes I am passionate about it. The community is great and try to be very helpful, including myself. We offer help with the game when needed. We help people get their stuff set up, solve issues with the alpha for them, and post bugs often. We try to correct the misconceptions of Free to Play, Subscriptions, and inform people that there is a single player campaign included with the game when that module is done. I've done some YouTube videos myself to help out with new players and I host 2 game nights every week and have done so for months. So yeah I guess that does make me an Uber-Fan and I'm proud of all the people we've helped. As for the cost to buy into the game at the most basic level it's $40 now and will be $40 going forward which it doesn't matter if you buy in now or later it will cost the same. It's actually cheap compared to a lot of other games. I trust MekTek to do the right thing and create a great game with lots of customization and to treat their community great as they have done. Sure there are things that can be improved upon there always will be, but overall it's been fun and interesting being in the alpha. You also have to understand we are forced to deal with people who lump HGA in with MWO and Hawken and even MechTactics as if MekTek is one of those companies that's already screwed over their community in the past. We also get people who just flat out refuse to let go of past atrocities by other companies and hold it against MekTek unfairly and frankly it's annoying after having the same arguments over and over. How would you feel if every other person wrongly accused you of being a criminal? It would get annoying wouldn't it. It's like being guilty until proven innocent instead of the other way around which isn't fair to a company that hasn't done anything wrong or illegal. MekTek has hit many speed bumps trying to develop HGA and yet they keep on working and making the game better every patch! They listen to their community and when a suggestion makes sense they take it. I don't know to many developers that do that until it's to late if they do it at all.

 Werewolf486 wrote:


Uber-Fan here! Yes I love the game(...) You also have to understand we are forced to deal with people who lump HGA in with MWO and Hawken

Yeah, with MWO being solid as it is, and enjoying a reasonnably large, active player base, yeah, I could see why you wouldn't want to put it and HGA in the same bag.

The attitude of "you just don't understand!" seems to permeate this game no matter what, eh?

 Werewolf486 wrote:
We try to correct the misconceptions of Free to Play,

Welcome to dakka. I don't think you mean anything by it but calling it a misconception implies that it isn't based in any fact (like the misconception of the earth being flat) which isn't the case. The game was, for the first two years including during it's most high profile periods during both the unsuccessful crowdfunding campaigns, "free to choose" which was their unique version of free to play/freemium. When Brandon posted that it wasn't (to my surprise), I did a quick google search and most of the articles that clarify that are dated late last year (nov/dec 2014) so it may take a while for the news of the change from free to play to filter out to those who decided to wait to see what hits the virtual shelves in its final form.

In light of what I said earlier, and also this:

 warboss wrote:


Her forecast was grim judging from the finances.

It reminded me of something I said when the first KS for Assault flopped and we the community were accused of its failure:

Posted by Firebreak on 29 May 2013 - 10:26 AM

"You just don't GET my art," rages the artist who can't sell his paintings.

"You just don't GET to keep living in your house," explains the bank as they repossess it.

After posting such monumental goals, they respond to criticism with "you misunderstood"? Their reputation is solidly tarnished in my book. And now, I'm worried for the Pod's sake. Please don't go bankrupt over this.

Date bolded for emphasis. Obviously things have changed somewhat in the last two years but.... well let's hope that was still needlessly fearful of me.

HudsonD wrote:

 Werewolf486 wrote:


Uber-Fan here! Yes I love the game(...) You also have to understand we are forced to deal with people who lump HGA in with MWO and Hawken

Yeah, with MWO being solid as it is, and enjoying a reasonnably large, active player base, yeah, I could see why you wouldn't want to put it and HGA in the same bag.

No more like the money grabs, the alienating a chunk of the community, the list of lies, the issues of Hawken going dark for a while, MechTactics taking money long after development had stopped. The fact that PGI's bosses have pissed off a great many people and so those people seem to view other efforts with the same disdain they hold for PGI. As for your comment of MWO being "Solid" my arse, I still see bugs from 4 years ago and CW is a running gag in progress that was promised 6 months after closed beta. I still play from time to time but not nearly as much as I play my other games.

Firebreak wrote:The attitude of "you just don't understand!" seems to permeate this game no matter what, eh?

Because there are a lot of people who just look at HGA as nothing more then MWO or Hawken and it's not and is never meant to be. So yeah a lot of "You just don't understand" seems to happen. There's also a lack of people willing to take an extra few minutes to check something out for themselves. Hell most people don't even realize that MekTek who is doing HGA is the same group who kept MW4 alive for long after MS abandoned it and were the team that put together the Free Release of MW4 to help promote MW5 by Smith&Tinker and PGI which never happned. Sometimes when I make that association people start to change their minds and say "wow really!, I never knew that!" and "That's awesome!" at which point they start to check it out.

warboss wrote:

 Werewolf486 wrote:
We try to correct the misconceptions of Free to Play,

Welcome to dakka. I don't think you mean anything by it but calling it a misconception implies that it isn't based in any fact (like the misconception of the earth being flat) which isn't the case. The game was, for the first two years including during it's most high profile periods during both the unsuccessful crowdfunding campaigns, "free to choose" which was their unique version of free to play/freemium. When Brandon posted that it wasn't (to my surprise), I did a quick google search and most of the articles that clarify that are dated late last year (nov/dec 2014) so it may take a while for the news of the change from free to play to filter out to those who decided to wait to see what hits the virtual shelves in its final form.

mis·con·cep·tion - a view or opinion that is incorrect because it is based on faulty thinking or understanding. Which to think that HGA is Free to Play is a misconception, it is not. Yes at one point it was going to be way back in the very beginning but they listened to a bunch of us who wanted to get away from the association on F2P and they thought it a better move to go to a buy in plan like going to the store and buying a game in the days of HG1 and HG2. I said it was a misconception we are dealing with now due to faulty understanding, as in it's been changed since before 2014. When we got the alpha in July 2014 it was already not F2P. Before the store opened up it was no longer F2P and had been for some time. So yes I say misconceptions we have to deal with and yes I would say it's a misconception of MekTeks own doing but you'd think after a while that would go away. Maybe I should have used "mis·un·der·stand·ing - a failure to understand something correctly" instead of misconception but you still get the point. I'd bet some of those things you found in your google search are more articles posted by people who were misinformed, we've had that happen recently due to archived pages that should have been pulled still being accessible.

The game and the Dev team deserve a fair shake and not to be crucified time and again as being just like PGI and other gaming companies when they are not. Vince and James are not Bryan and Russ.

Customers are not responsible for a company inability to get their message across, nor are they responsible for re-looking into something that did not seem interesting when they originally looked into it.

mrondeau wrote:
Customers are not responsible for a company inability to get their message across, nor are they responsible for re-looking into something that did not seem interesting when they originally looked into it.

Ah but you are if you won't listen to the new message when someone tells you the information you have is outdated! I think it is our responsibility to research something that interests us before we buy or walk away regardless of what it is. I also think that when someone reports a change in plan or information then you should go see for yourself on the website and not any place else. If a person wants to remain closed minded and argumentative over a change in facts the choice it to let them keep spreading the bad information or rebut it in the hopes others will see the truth of the matter. Also as a customer of MekTek and a supporter of HGA I do feel I need to help get that message out and dispel the bad information being posted by some people who don't know the facts. So I feel a responsibility to help them get their message out.

 Werewolf486 wrote:

The game and the Dev team deserve a fair shake and not to be crucified time and again as being just like PGI and other gaming companies when they are not. Vince and James are not Bryan and Russ.

I have no idea who any of those people are in any case and agree the game and dev team should be given a fair shake (which is what I gave them during the first crowdfunding). Unfortunately, they stumbled out of the gate with an ill prepared campaign and never recovered (the 30 day countdown to the start of the campaign that ended with... nothing for a day or two... remember that?). That was Stompy Bot (previously known as Mektek iirc), not anyone else. Since then, I personally don't like most of the gears' looks nor do I like the gameplay shown in some youtube videos (maybe they're yours?). Of course, that, just like your praise, is an opinion. I don't think it is unreasonable for folks who didn't like what they saw to wait until the final product is released before giving the game another look. It's actually unreasonable to expect them to follow something they don't like in detail and especially to pay for the priveledge to do so. In any case, I wish the game and company luck but I'll stick to the tabletop and console for now until the game is completely done. At that point, I'll reassess what they've done in the meantime.

No don't you see, Warboss?

You just don't understand.

Do you see the disconnect here, Werewolf?

"You should read this it'll make you like the game."

"I did, and it didn't."

"But you're wrong."

"Okay, it's good that some people like this game, it's just not for me, and here are the reasons why."

"But those are bad reasons. Here, read this, it'll make you like it."

Ad nauseum.

We have this discussion ever couple dozen pages, don't we? "You're not a good enough fan," someone says. "Nope, sure aren't, here's why," the rest say. "But you don't understand/you're rude/that's stupid," someone says. "Look there's 60 pages of our problems, " the rest say. We just slap a different acronym on it and repeat ourselves over and over and over and

I'm tired of it. So sure, Werewolf. Whatever. Assault is a perfect waifu and we're all fools and the community is doing it great harm. Yay you won.

 warboss wrote:

 Werewolf486 wrote:

The game and the Dev team deserve a fair shake and not to be crucified time and again as being just like PGI and other gaming companies when they are not. Vince and James are not Bryan and Russ.

I have no idea who any of those people are in any case and agree the game and dev team should be given a fair shake (which is what I gave them during the first crowdfunding). Unfortunately, they stumbled out of the gate with an ill prepared campaign and never recovered (the 30 day countdown to the start of the campaign that ended with... nothing for a day or two... remember that?). That was Stompy Bot (previously known as Mektek iirc), not anyone else. Since then, I personally don't like most of the gears' looks nor do I like the gameplay shown in some youtube videos (maybe they're yours?). Of course, that, just like your praise, is an opinion. I don't think it is unreasonable for folks who didn't like what they saw to wait until the final product is released before giving the game another look. It's actually unreasonable to expect them to follow something they don't like in detail and especially to pay for the priveledge to do so. In any case, I wish the game and company luck but I'll stick to the tabletop and console for now until the game is completely done. At that point, I'll reassess what they've done in the meantime.

Read this article as it covers what happened with the Kickstarter that has helped to cause even more issues. I wish they never would have done a Kickstarter and the title of this article sucks but it tells the story..
http://www.engadget.com/2014/12/12/losing-money-and-reputation-to-build-heavy-gear-assault/

I don't mind people waiting to see how the final product is but I don't appreciate misinformation and bad mouthing the company or the game as most of what has happened to them to hinder progress has not been in their control. Especially the crap they receive from former MWO players who just pass it off as another money grab. What you see as them stumbling out of the gate I see as constantly being slapped down and having to get back up, which they keep doing. I like that and so I support it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Firebreak wrote:
No don't you see, Warboss?

You just don't understand.

Do you see the disconnect here, Werewolf?

"You should read this it'll make you like the game."

"I did, and it didn't."

"But you're wrong."

"Okay, it's good that some people like this game, it's just not for me, and here are the reasons why."

"But those are bad reasons. Here, read this, it'll make you like it."

Ad nauseum.

We have this discussion ever couple dozen pages, don't we? "You're not a good enough fan," someone says. "Nope, sure aren't, here's why," the rest say. "But you don't understand/you're rude/that's stupid," someone says. "Look there's 60 pages of our problems, " the rest say. We just slap a different acronym on it and repeat ourselves over and over and over and

I'm tired of it. So sure, Werewolf. Whatever. Assault is a perfect waifu and we're all fools and the community is doing it great harm. Yay you won.

I'm making valid points so now lets switch to taunting instead of point counter point discussion. ok

 Werewolf486 wrote:

I don't mind people waiting to see how the final product is but I don't appreciate misinformation and bad mouthing the company or the game as most of what has happened to them to hinder progress has not been in their control. Especially the crap they receive from former MWO players who just pass it off as another money grab. What you see as them stumbling out of the gate I see as constantly being slapped down and having to get back up, which they keep doing. I like that and so I support it.

When you set an overly ambitious and very public goal and then proceed to fail at that goal in several different ways twice in a row, that isn't being "slapped down" but rather falling flat on your face...in the mud... while your buddy is recording for youtube. The latter describes both of their failed crowdfunding campaigns which absolutely deserved to fail as they didn't show enough to make it worth pledging (when eventually they did finally show something). I'm glad that you think they've improved significantly in the meantime* but I'll reserve my judgement for when the final product comes out. They have only their own lack of preparation to blame for the situation they put themselves into after the initial annoucement.

*which I take with a grain of salt given the wide difference between our definitions of being "slapped down"

The key parallel between Stompy Bot and the Pod is that both Koolaid companies think there are tons of unknown fans out there thatwill gladly open their wallets without any hesitation.

http://forums.heavygear.com/index.php?p=/discussion/1074/would-anyone-like-to-address-the-folks-over-here

 Firebreak wrote:
http://forums.heavygear.com/index.php?p=/discussion/1074/would-anyone-like-to-address-the-folks-over-here

Yeah I wasn't even going to come over here for those very reasons and then I saw that Smilodon_UP brought me in with a quote from DP9 forums. The upside is that I've been proven right by you, so thanks for helping me be right again.

 Werewolf486 wrote:
Yeah I wasn't even going to come over here for those very reasons and then I saw that Smilodon_UP brought me in with a quote from DP9 forums. The upside is that I've been proven right by you, so thanks for helping me be right again.

Lol, yeah, it's better if you stay at the official company forums with the like minded folks can converse since that it the attitude you started with. Apparently, not liking something you do and giving the actual reasons why is enough to be referred to as:

No, some ok people but mostly stacked full of hateful, bitter, product bashing people the likes of which I hope stay away from HGA. Toxic wastelands and a waste of time to even try.

You're not interested in a discussion but rather to dictate what people can and must like because you do.