[Heavy Gear] General Discussion Thread

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**Albertorius**

warboss wrote:
I suppose your point depends on whether those sales through normal retail channels (or more accurately direct from DP9's online store as I suspect that's where the bulk now is) pay for themselves (labor and materials) in a timely fashion. The first plastics kickstarter doesn't seemed to have kickstarted a renaissance in HG gaming like the original LeClerc blitz era redo did. When I posted above about the dp9 forums, I was surprised at how little interaction there is now. There was a moderator on the forum with only 100 posts (!) and only two of the top 10 forum posters by leaderboard thumbs up ranking still post (yourself and samuli). Churn is a normal part of every community but I didn't see the "new" zealots (that would shout down criticism 2-3 years ago from veterans) posting any more nor much in the way of new posters either to replace the old timers who voluntarily left or were kicked out for dubious reasons. I can't help but think that the player base and therefore sales have suffered similarly. Of course this is all outsider looking in conjecture but the reliance on prefunding at others' expense in order to create new product leans towards that as well (over and above the industry shift to crowdfunding overall that is).

It might have to do with Phil's minis being significantly better

As to the forum being dead... well that may happen when you drive the biggest fans out for not toeing the party line quite hard enough and replace them with hat they have now.

**HudsonD**

Man, I was in Montréal when the first Blitz was released, and Phil's resculpts started appearing...
Those alone got people buying it. I'd know, I did.

**warboss**

Albertorius wrote:It might have to do with Phil's minis being significantly better

As to the forum being dead... well that may happen when you drive the biggest fans out for not toeing the party line quite hard enough and replace them with hat they have now.

The candle that burns twice as bright, burns half as long. For one or two of the folks that tried to shout down constructive criticism from fellow fans, it appears that calling them a candle might be too generous given the length of their interest and the "flash in the pan" comparison might be more apt. And, yes, Phil's minis coming on the heels of the much worse IMO tactical minis were a huge improvement. I can't say that about the 1st round kickstarters other than maybe Caprice (which was a massive improvement in terms of cost of ownership rather than quality which remained roughly the same)

HudsonD wrote:Man, I was in Montréal when the first Blitz was released, and Phil's resculpts started appearing...
Those alone got people buying it. I'd know, I did.

Same here... and I hated DP9 at the time for screwing me over twice during the 1st edition RPG days.

**Albertorius**

Yeah, I'd say Caprice minis were the salvageable part of the KS.

**John Prins**

warboss wrote:

I suppose your point depends on whether those sales through normal retail channels (or more accurately direct from DP9's online store as I suspect that's where the bulk now is) pay for themselves (labor and materials) in a timely fashion.

Given they're pewter, the turnaround is pretty quick. Obviously I don't have access the DP9's books, but if they need KS money to make rubber spincast molds, how are they keeping the lights on and a staff of 5 paid?

The first plastics kickstarter doesn't seemed to have kickstarted a renaissance in HG gaming like the original LeClerc blitz era redo did. When I posted above about the dp9 forums, I was surprised at how little interaction there is now.

The quality of the plastics wasn't good enough. Getting into the game is more accessible with the price of plastics, but the standards for plastics miniatures has moved a lot higher. I give DP9 credit for trying - the NuCoal/PRDF plastics renders look better than KS1 renders, but if you compare plastics and metals side to side, the plastics end up looking poor in comparison. A good paint job can salvage it quite a bit, but the same level paint job on the metals will look a lot better too.

There was a moderator on the forum with only 100 posts (!) and only two of the top 10 forum posters by leaderboard thumbs up ranking still post (yourself and samuli).

And I think I've posted 3-4 comments in the last year or so. To be fair, I've put HG on the back burner 4-5 times for several years since the original release, so it's not unusual in and of itself, but yeah, the plastics didn't juice Heavy Gear nearly enough.

Maybe if they ever get off their rump and release a new version of the HG RPG to juice interest in the IP.

**HudsonD**

A staff of 5 ? No way. DP9 is 2 people at this point.

**John Prins**

HudsonD wrote:
A staff of 5 ? No way. DP9 is 2 people at this point.

2 full time, in office staff, yes. The KS lists a staff of 5, Rob (office), David (office), Alain (Fusion Models that does DP9's resins), Tony (3D modeling), Phillipe (sculptor), as well as some 3D modelers in Europe for the Kickstarter plastics.

Basically, Alain is necessary for sales of resins, and without Tony/Phillipe, no new sculpts get made. I'd count that as staff, even if they're not full time DP9 office critters.

**mdauben**

warboss wrote:
Nothing odd about that. If you're interested in the faction, pledge for it. I wholeheartedly support you putting your money where your mouth is and this campaign is tailor made for customers like you (no sarcasm intended). I personally don't think that there are enough folks like yourself to make it financially viable though buit that's another story. I guess we'll see in a few days if that is the case since we all know the *real* funding period to determine cancellation is the first couple of days and not the actual listed one. I do think though that this will be the last hurrah for Utopia if it doesn't fund. YMMV.

In all honestly, I would not be surprised if it does not fund. I hope I'm wrong as I really like the look of this faction and would really like to get them, but if it doesn't fund I've still got most of my Caprise and CEF miniatures to paint.

**HudsonD**

Ok, 33% funding after the first 2 days, that KS is DOA.

**warboss**

Let's not stop the chest compressions just yet. Is this kickstarter being discussed anywhere but here? I took a look at the dp9 forums and Brandon's facebook group and the announcement posts on both don't have a single comment yet.

**HudsonD**

As far as I know, Dakka is the place where this KS has been the most actively discussed, so... Yeah.

Edit : There literaly hasn't been a single reply in the official thread on the DP9 boards yet, and I counted 43 views when I checked a minute ago !
Edit² : ... 194 views in the Dakka news thread.

**JohnHwangDD**

If Dakka is the only place where the HG KS is being discussed, the KS is deader than a doornail.
___

Kicktraq's daily funding

**warboss**

There are nine comments on the kickstarter itself including two from DP9 ....

**John Prins**

They need to get it up on Tabletop Gaming News and Beasts of War.

**Mmmpi**

So at this point, they need 20 people a day to pledge for a core set to make it.

**John Prins**

It's on a slow burn, but it's still progressing. If it stalls for a day or two, then it's probably over.

**JohnHwangDD**

Mmmpi wrote:
So at this point, they need 20 people a day to pledge for a core set to make it.

They beat that for the first couple days, but then they only got 7 yesterday.

I don't think they make it.

**Mmmpi**

My 20 per day was based on what was left after the initial surge. So, they need 32 more today to break even.

I honestly agree with you, but who know? Maybe the long shot?

**ferrous**

Huh, this thread got bumped. Yeah, that KS looks a bit sad. I can understand going with a KS for Utopia, as it's their least popular faction, so making a bunch of minis that won't sell seems like a bad idea. If they using it basically as a pre-ordering system to gauge user interest, that's fine.

It would help if they actually had cool designs, and this is where the KS could've really shined, by redesigning the models so they actually looked appealing. Instead, it looks like they doubled down on the ugly eggs factor, with even less detail. But oh hey, a giant tank...that is also ugly as sin, though at least it looks more inline with the rest of the units. Unlike that stupid giant CEF hovertank, that looked like it came from an entirely different tabletop game.

**IceRaptor**

ferrous wrote:
It would help if they actually had cool designs, and this is where the KS could've really shined, by redesigning the models so they actually looked appealing.

The aesthetics are always what killed Utopia for me. I've come to believe that Phil's artistic touch was really what make the Blitz line possible - he breathed a bunch of life into those models that simply haven't been replicated. The Utopia line - and the plastics - looks to have the quality I expect from independent mini houses featured in the back of Wargames Illustrated. It's just not enough to get me over the sticker shock and make me want to buy.

**Albertorius**

Yeah, well... turns out that repurposing stuff from the d20 Mecha Compendium designed for other settings that had nothing to do with HG didn't work as well as they hoped.

Who would have known.

**Firebreak**

Wait, really? I never knew that about Utopia. We really need a retrospective "peek behind the curtain" type thread one of these days. I know a certain someone was going to talk about the original plan for the story on here, but then never came back. :(

**Albertorius**

Firebreak wrote:
Wait, really? I never knew that about Utopia. We really need a retrospective "peek behind the curtain" type thread one of these days. I know a certain someone was going to talk about the original plan for the story on here, but then never came back. :(

Yep, really. IIRC the drones were done specifically for HG, but they were based them on the look of the mecha they did repurpose (the setting was called "Outworld Changelings" and the mecha were called "Neural Raiders" in setting, althoug they took a tank from the setting and put a Neural Raider's torso on top of it to do the third Utopian Gear).

It's pretty obvious on stuff like the rocket launchers, for example.

As to the Kickstarter, it appears it has been flatlining the last few days?

**JohnHwangDD**

Albertorius wrote:
As to the Kickstarter, it appears it has been flatlining the last few days?

Yeah, well, people are coming to the realization that it's not likely to fund, so they aren't jumping in.

**ScarletRose**

Well they're pulling out all the stops to try to get this to fund. I actually upped my pledge.

**warboss**

Yeah, they're really increasing the amount of minis for no additional funding. I know that popping out sprues once the molds are made is relatively inexpensive but that should also affect shipping which could bite backers (especially non-North American ones) later. Also, I hope they don't have to unilaterally decide to roll those stretch goals back a year later after the fact like they did when the first kickstarter hit some speed bumps. Caveat Emptor.

**ScarletRose**

Also, I hope they don't have to unilaterally decide to roll those stretch goals back a year later after the fact like they did when the first kickstarter hit some speed bumps. Caveat Emptor.

Eh, maybe it's me but I don't see why people are so over the top upset about that. It was 2 minis from a stretch goal and they were upfront that once it came down to cutting the molds they were coming up short and removing them was the easiest solution.

I'd much rather they did that (despite my love of the Sidewinder) than drop things into development hell while they tried to scrounge more money. I've backed other kickstarters where that did happen and IMO it's much worse for backers and companies both.

**warboss**

ScarletRose wrote:
Also, I hope they don't have to unilaterally decide to roll those stretch goals back a year later after the fact like they did when the first kickstarter hit some speed bumps. Caveat Emptor.

Eh, maybe it's me but I don't see why people are so over the top upset about that. It was 2 minis from a stretch goal and they were upfront that once it came down to cutting the molds they were coming up short and removing them was the easiest solution.

JohnHwangDD Rage Trigger ON [X] OFF[ ]

I personally agree that the scope of the changes wasn't significant but the thinking and willingness to unilaterally change the terms of the deal over a year after the fact was. It shows a willingness on the part of DP9 to make their customers directly pay for the company's mistakes. YMMV.

**Firebreak**

DP9 was overall behaving a lot shittier at the time, too, so it was just one more "LALALALA CANT HERE YOU YOU ALL SUCK" moment.

**JohnHwangDD**

warboss wrote:
I personally agree that the scope of the changes wasn't significant but the thinking and willingness to unilaterally change the terms of the deal over a year after the fact was. It shows a willingness on the part of DP9 to make their customers directly pay for the company's mistakes. YMMV.

That's pretty much it. The Pod failed to deposit any of the US-bound money in a US bank account, nor to perform a basic currency hedge. Total incompetence from a company that *knew* it would spend the largest chunk of the funds in the US, rather than Canada. Really, it's completely asinine why they don't have the entire project in USD out of a US shell in Delaware.

But then, the Pod can't manage it's way out of a wet paper bag, and as expected, the backers are the ones who get screwed.

The plus side, is that the first KS showed the Pod's true colors and ability, so I'm not even tossing the token buck at them.