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 ScarletRose wrote:
Eh, maybe it's me but I don't see why people are so over the top upset about that. It was 2 minis from a stretch goal and they were upfront that once it came down to cutting the molds they were coming up short and removing them was the easiest solution.

Well, to put it simply, they changed the deal a year after the fact but did not offer any kind of refund option at the same time, so the only thing people could do at the time was to rage.


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 Firebreak wrote:
DP9 was overall behaving a lot shittier at the time, too, so it was just one more "LALALALA CANT HERE YOU YOU ALL SUCK" moment.

Yeah, well, I can't really say that they're acting less gakky now. I can only state exactly how gakky they were at the time.

Exactly. What's to say that the Pod won't pull the same gak again?

Still over $7500 to go:

I'm curious to see if DP9 will lower the funding goal last minute after doubling the model count just to get $22k in quick easy cash right away and let backers deal with/pay for any potential shortfall consequences a year from now.

 warboss wrote:
I'm curious to see if DP9 will lower the funding goal last minute after doubling the model count just to get $22k in quick easy cash right away and let backers deal with/pay for any potential shortfall consequences a year from now.

I'd like to believe they wouldn't, mainly because I like to believe that people can change.

Then again, I'm not willing to bet my money on it.

I don't believe KS allows a creator to change the goal mid-campaign. I think they'd have to cancel and launch a new one. But if they re-launch, their target would need to be more like $15k or $20k.

JohnHwangDD wrote:I don't believe KS allows a creator to change the goal mid-campaign. I think they'd have to cancel and launch a new one. But if they re-launch, their target would need to be more like $15k or $20k.

I didn't know that; I figured that as long as it didn't fund, you could change anything until it did. Over in the news thread, Albertorious noted a $6k bump yesterday and Mmmmpi brought up uncharacteristically large pledge amounts for the number of new pledges.

In the News thread someone commented that it was less new comers and more people upping their pledges.

I have no idea where they got their information though.

I still think there might have been a donation from Rob or Dave, a sort of "prime the pump" attempt at the last minute. Not saying it's a given, only that it's possible. It wouldn't be the first time it happened.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Pod threw $5k to get it over the hump. Sure, they lose 8% to fees, but that's paying a mere $400 to secure $25k in funding. They can get it back by tacking on an extra $2 in shipping charges.

 Mmmpi wrote:
In the News thread someone commented that it was less new comers and more people upping their pledges.
I have no idea where they got their information though.(...).

Note how the increase in pledges is closely corelated to the increase in backers, except on 02/02.

Yeah, that was simple extrapolation from the data available.

Makes sense. The data is off the Kickstarter site?

 Mmmpi wrote:
Makes sense. The data is off the Kickstarter site?

Kicktraq, but yes, it gets its data directly from KS.

Good to know for future KS's.

It appears that Stompy Bot, the makers of the Heavy Gear Assault video game which apparently hasn't been playable for most of the time since September due to server issues according to the steam forum complaint threads, has changed its name to Blocplay.

http://thecse.com/sites/default/files/Confirmation_of_Notification_to_CDS_and_Commissions.pdf

It seems to me like DP9 really, really thinks Heavy Gear is an IP that's bigger than it really is. While it may have been big in the past, right now it might as well be an entirely new game that needs to be slowly built back up from ground level.

While they can certainly draw more initial support from old fans, it's still nowhere near the

Not to mention the decade of mismanagement that caused most retailers to stop carrying it.

What ever happened to the fleet scale stuff for example?

If they really wanted to bring back HG, it requires a reboot. Updated higher quality art, updated designs and sculpts, more and better writing that treats it as a property no one knows.

 Vertrucio wrote:
If they really wanted to bring back HG, it requires a reboot. Updated higher quality art, updated designs and sculpts, more and better writing that treats it as a property no one knows.

I dunno. It feels to me at least like the first plastics kickstarter would have been the time for a full fluff and visual reboot IMO. I don't think it would succeed with DP9 still at the helm at this point.

 Vertrucio wrote:
What ever happened to the fleet scale stuff for example?

Didn't they do a KS for that with completely ridiculous time-motion scaling?

I remember the KS falling quite flat and the fluff from the KS being shoehorned on the regular HG, which made little sense, but I don't think there's been any movement after the KS failed.

A shame, all told. Wunji seems like an ok guy.

In an effort to provide constructive feedback similar to the original intent of this thread four years ago, what would it take for casual readers here to get back into HG? If the answer is something spiteful like the company going out of business or Robert and Dave running away together leaving a stranger in control, please don't bother responding. When I started this thread shortly before the knowledge of what ultimately became the LRB was announced, it was to point out why folks didn't pick up Heavy Gear (a topic that couldn't be openly discussed at the time on the official forums). Today, I'd like to focus the discussion in light of the recent kickstarter on what would bring you back.

For me, I suspect that it would take a bottom to top revamp of the game rules, background, and miniatures. I *love* the LeClerc era miniatures (and the RAFM classics) but I'm middle aged now and I don't think they'll ever get the same kind of interest from younger generations. The HGA designs show both the benefits and perils of updating the designs to modern mech asthetics. I'm just spitballing but I think the time for mass battle HG has passed with the relative meh reception of the plastics and LRB (from an outsider's perspective based on online player engagement as I don't have any sales data obviously). I think the last, best hope for HG would be a return to the anime roots ala a Relic Knights sort of visual/modelling revamp that embraced the cheesy anime asthetics for a skirmish game. And, for a certain someone, I'm not advocating SPM style business practices, just the visuals. If it were 10 years ago, I'd have been advocating prepainted randomized booster minis as I think HG would have been perfect but the DP9 of today likely doesn't have even a fraction of the resources necessary to put that into production.

If HG were to sell off to Hasbro or some other professional company, then I'd be looking for plastics that match the quality of the 1/144 Tactical-era metals and rules that are comparable in complexity to AoS (but with simpler unit definition). Not going to happen, tough.

DP9 needs a more aggressive release schedule. New releases keep people interested in the game. The problem is that they've essentially filled their catalog and are down to either creating new units we don't need, or re-sculpting old units. The plastics are sort of the second option, though they're trading quality for price point.

Scale change is a touchy subject for the long time HG fans, and I don't think DP9 could move Blitz away from 12mm to the more popular 15mm, or bring back RAFM scale, unless they did that strictly on a 'for painters and collectors' basis. They could do a 28mm line of gears for painters and build an entire, more complex game around 3-5 gears per side plus some infantry (Infinity, but with Gears), but juggling another game line would require more resources. I'd back a Kickstarter to make 28mm gears in plastic - probably sticking to Hunter/Jager chassis with tons of options - and you could stick the game in the early timeline when those gears predominated the battlefield. Pre-War of the Alliance or even earlier.

I do think an AoS style army building using keywords might work better than the current system. So many of the subfactions have crossover units (Eastern Sun Emirates can use 1 gear squad from North or Peace River, etc) that would really be simplified with "can use 1 unit with [keyword]" instead of writing out a bunch of restrictions.

I think the last, best hope for HG would be a return to the anime roots ala a Relic Knights sort of visual/modelling revamp that embraced the cheesy anime asthetics for a skirmish game. And, for a certain someone, I'm not advocating SPM style business practices, just the visuals.

I definitely think skirmish is the way to go, and while I wouldn't go too cartoony I think there definitely needs to be some new art.

Honestly, I think the KS and plastics should have been handled more as a full reboot. It should have been about re-announcing the game, making a big splash and trying to build a fanbase.

I'd back a Kickstarter to make 28mm gears in plastic - probably sticking to Hunter/Jager chassis with tons of options - and you could stick the game in the early timeline when those gears predominated the battlefield. Pre-War of the Alliance or even earlier.

I'd love it. 28mm scale would make the gears like... 54mm tall? I'm not sure I can really visualize the scale offhand.

 ScarletRose wrote:
Honestly, I think the KS and plastics should have been handled more as a full reboot. It should have been about re-announcing the game, making a big splash and trying to build a fanbase.

FWIW, I advocated for that both in public and private to no avail. I wanted the starter to skip Caprice (despite that being only faction in plastic I was interested in) and reset the game to the first Earth Invasion with the North/South vs the CEF. The other factions would have rules (some necessarily "counts as" style) but the focus in the books and fluff would firmly be on the above. Next, the badlands and earth allies would slowly get their turn in the rules just like they did in the original HG rpg as the story progressed.

A full reboot, a redo of the rules, more then AoS, but less then the current rules. Simplify squad building, or make the squad the basis of the game. Your army is the combat group, with a 'big' squad, and the rest of the army are support units. Don't sell it as an army game, sell it as a skirmish game ala: infinity (but nowhere near that complex!!!!)

Another possibility that would link in the old HG could be a mechromunda style game. Basically a campaign mode as the basic game where you can accumulate skills and such. It would remove the need for unit types, and DP9 could get back to their RPG roots.


I also forgot: BETTER MARKETING!!!!

I only learned about their first kickstarter because I stumbled on a "what's wrong with HG" thread. (This one in fact).

 John Prins wrote:
I'd back a Kickstarter to make 28mm gears in plastic - probably sticking to Hunter/Jager chassis with tons of options - and you could stick the game in the early timeline when those gears predominated the battlefield. Pre-War of the Alliance or even earlier.

All of my money, if for collecting and painting alone. I might even play an actual game of that, and I haven't even gamed in 15 years.

Guys, it's dead.
Yeah, we all have fond memories of the game and setting when they were good, 20 years ago. Or when it had potential as a mini game, mid-2000s, thanks to Phil's resculpts.
There have been many opportunities, and attempts, they all ended in failure, "because DP9™". Out of charity, I won't mention the RPG project by Arkrite, or the video game.
At this point, it's too far gone to be saved, the setting is a mess, the plastic minis are average at best, and the game itself is lacking, in no small part because DP9 won't or can't invest in it.
There's still a pulse, yeah, but otherwise, it's flatlined.

 HudsonD wrote:
Guys, it's dead.
Yeah, we all have fond memories of the game and setting when they were good, 20 years ago. Or when it had potential as a mini game, mid-2000s, thanks to Phil's resculpts.
There have been many opportunities, and attempts, they all ended in failure, "because DP9™". Out of charity, I won't mention the RPG project by Arkrite, or the video game.
At this point, it's too far gone to be saved, the setting is a mess, the plastic minis are average at best, and the game itself is lacking, in no small part because DP9 won't or can't invest in it.
There's still a pulse, yeah, but otherwise, it's flatlined.

So game over, man? Game over? I'll put you in the never again category.

 warboss wrote:
In an effort to provide constructive feedback similar to the original intent of this thread four years ago, what would it take for casual readers here to get back into HG? If the answer is something spiteful like the company going out of business or Robert and Dave running away together leaving a stranger in control, please don't bother responding. When I started this thread shortly before the knowledge of what ultimately became the LRB was announced, it was to point out why folks didn't pick up Heavy Gear (a topic that couldn't be openly discussed at the time on the official forums). Today, I'd like to focus the discussion in light of the recent kickstarter on what would bring you back.

For me, I suspect that it would take a bottom to top revamp of the game rules, background, and miniatures. I *love* the LeClerc era miniatures (and the RAFM classics) but I'm middle aged now and I don't think they'll ever get the same kind of interest from younger generations. The HGA designs show both the benefits and perils of updating the designs to modern mech asthetics. I'm just spitballing but I think the time for mass battle HG has passed with the relative meh reception of the plastics and LRB (from an outsider's perspective based on online player engagement as I don't have any sales data obviously). I think the last, best hope for HG would be a return to the anime roots ala a Relic Knights sort of visual/modelling revamp that embraced the cheesy anime asthetics for a skirmish game. And, for a certain someone, I'm not advocating SPM style business practices, just the visuals. If it were 10 years ago, I'd have been advocating prepainted randomized booster minis as I think HG would have been perfect but the DP9 of today likely doesn't have even a fraction of the resources necessary to put that into production.

I'm... honestly not sure. I had already drifted away from "contemporary" Heavy Gear long before the gak went down with the current administration, so my relation with the company/the onwers of the company wouldn't actually matter much.

See, I'm an RPG fluff nut first and a wargamer a somewhat distant second, particularly regarding Heavy Gear. And contmporary Heavy Gear have been crapping all over the setting for... a decade, now, or whereabouts. So, from that perspective, the game's mostly dead to me. I am content with the fact that I have everything I could possibly need to play the original one, though, so it's not much of a matter. And Arkrite... well, Arkrite's mostly dead in the water, but who knows. I can still hope. But even then, I would be getting a revamped, maybe slightly tweaked, version of what I already have. And that's not really what the game needs anymore.

But before writing here my opinion, I'll preamble with two facts. Lately, I've been introduced to two new and very cool modern mecha games: one of those is a wargame, named Mobile Suit Skirmish, and the other one is still in beta and is an RPG (made by the author of the webcomic Kill Six Billion Demons), named Lancer.

Both have been very eye opening to me: MSSk has shown me what you can do when you want a fast but still detailed game that threads closely to the way a setting works in their media, whereas Lancer has taught me what you can do with a mecha RPG when you stop being stuck with 90s ideas of available tech (and WWII combat doctrines) and introduce a science fiction more informed by current technological developments.

So, with that said... In my opinion, to reboot the game and get me interested again on it, they should probably kill it, and start anew. The ideas of Heavy Gear , setting wise, are still very interesting (far in the future, colonized worlds, breakdown of the colonial power, etc...), but the actual implementation, particularly if you want to make it actually conductive for a modern tactical level wargame... needs to change. Like, a lot.

So make a new game out of it, from scratch, informed by what you liked about Heavy Gear, and by how do you want the game to play, and go from there. Keeping the setting in 90% stasis but at the same time trying to add sweeping retcons to it it's simply not working. So do it again, and now start by finding ways to put into it what you want in instead of shoehorning it where it doesn't belong.

Wargaming wise, I'd prefer they kept the game on a "1-2 Gear squads with maybe some support per side" level, and able to play that in under 1 to 1.5 hours. That or 28mm level on a scale similar to 2nd edition 40k (20-30 minis per side or whereabouts, with some vehicles per side if you want). I remember talking with Greg some time ago about doing some resin 28mm Gears, but that seems to be in the backburner too.

Setting/RPG wise, well... that's more complicated, but basically get unstuck from the 90s, for a start.


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ScarletRose wrote:I'd love it. 28mm scale would make the gears like... 54mm tall? I'm not sure I can really visualize the scale offhand.

Were we using the current "32mm is approximately 1.7-8m" scale of GW for their newer human stuff, a Hunter (4.3 meters high) would be about 80.9mm of height on the upper side, which is almost exactly the same height of the Easy to Build Redemptor Dreadnought, or 76,4mm on the lower. The rest would be correspondingly bigger or smaller.

A Ghostkeel would be another good proxy for size.

 Albertorius wrote:

Were we using the current "32mm is approximately 1.7-8m" scale of GW for their newer human stuff, a Hunter (4.3 meters high) would be about 80.9mm of height on the upper side, which is almost exactly the same height of the Easy to Build Redemptor Dreadnought, or 76,4mm on the lower. The rest would be correspondingly bigger or smaller.

A Ghostkeel would be another good proxy for size.

<Stares at unpainted Ghostkeel on table>

A truer to 28mm scale could take advantage of Infinity terrain, and a 5m gear would be 70mm tall. Maybe a touch bigger than current gearstriders? Leverage the market for better 28mm terrain rather than GW scale gothic stuff. It's big enough to consider extensive magnetization of the gear, or even straight up building with weapon swaps in mind like a japanese mecha kit.

 John Prins wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

Were we using the current "32mm is approximately 1.7-8m" scale of GW for their newer human stuff, a Hunter (4.3 meters high) would be about 80.9mm of height on the upper side, which is almost exactly the same height of the Easy to Build Redemptor Dreadnought, or 76,4mm on the lower. The rest would be correspondingly bigger or smaller.

A Ghostkeel would be another good proxy for size.

<Stares at unpainted Ghostkeel on table>

A truer to 28mm scale could take advantage of Infinity terrain, and a 5m gear would be 70mm tall. Maybe a touch bigger than current gearstriders? Leverage the market for better 28mm terrain rather than GW scale gothic stuff. It's big enough to consider extensive magnetization of the gear, or even straight up building with weapon swaps in mind like a japanese mecha kit.

Well, a Ghostkeel would be about the size of a Kodiak or a Spitting Cobra, at least height wise. They would probably be smaller in the other axis.

That said, that would not be a bad size for a 6'x4' table with up to 5 per side.