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So I have been accused of the dreaded P word(Proxying), but I think it falls more in line with Counts As. Here are the models I am using for what:

I am fielding DE primary, GK secondary.
The DE models are all legit

But for the GK, I am using Eldar models of the same size/shape. For instance:
Autarch=Coteaz
Guardians=Henchman
Dual Scatter Laser Warwalker=Riflemen Dreadnought

Is that proxying or Counts as? I won't be offended if you say Proxy, but I think that as soon as the army is all painted in the same scheme it'll look great

Sounds like a proxy. Unless the models REALLY add to cohesion in the scheme and the idea is shown well, an allied eldar detachment that is actually an allied GK detachment is kind of iffy.

How much conversion is done?

Does the Autarch have a 2 headed bird?

Are the guardians wielding bolters or lasguns?

War Walker is prolly be fine with but the others would need some massive conversion to be "counts as"

jathomas2013 wrote:
So I have been accused of the dreaded P word(Proxying), but I think it falls more in line with Counts As. Here are the models I am using for what:

I am fielding DE primary, GK secondary.
The DE models are all legit

But for the GK, I am using Eldar models of the same size/shape. For instance:
Autarch=Coteaz
Guardians=Henchman
Dual Scatter Laser Warwalker=Riflemen Dreadnought

Is that proxying or Counts as? I won't be offended if you say Proxy, but I think that as soon as the army is all painted in the same scheme it'll look great

Pretty much a text book example of proxying.

"Count as" is okay if;
1. The models do not have rules (Death Jesters, Arbites, some of the old out of print GW stuff) so you give them a purpose.
2. The rules do not have models (Harpies...for now anyways. Some of the special characters out there, etc). You have to use SOMETHING to represent the unit.
3. Extensive conversions and/or makes sense thematically. Eg, Pre-heresy 1k sons using the GK book, Khorne Berzerker force using the SW book....etc.

When someone sees your army and explanation, their first thought will be "Why not just use them as an Autarch, guardians and a warwalker? That would make more sense", and the obvious and ONLY answer they will be able to come up with is "because GK is better, and you don't wanna pay for new models".

This MIGHT be passable IF;
-You had a farseer instead of an autarch..they get access to psy powers at least.
-You converted all the shuriken catapults off of the guardians for whatever you henchmen are using.
-Extensively converted the walker with extra armor and 4 bright lances, or 4 autocannons
-Used a Eldar Corsair paint scheme. At least they'd have a reason to have imperial tech then.

Even then, you will find people that don't like you "codex hopping".In this era where everyone can pretty much take everything, having the proper models is more important. When you could only have things out of 1 book count-as was more accepted, as there was a very limited amount of things for them to count AS. Now that you have access to so much and there's so many things they could count as, it could get very confusing.

This would be more of a counts-as Coteaz than what you are doing. The psyber eagle is represented, the daemon hammer and bolt pistol are present, and the model is wearing something that is arguably artificer grade power armour. It's not actually Coteaz, but there's not much else it could be other than an Inquisitor.



If 'Autarch' sufficiently describes the model, then you are clearly proxying. As mentioned, the potential for confusion is extremely high because someone looking at the army on the table would very likely jump to the conclusion that you're playing DE + Eldar, especially given that they're battle brothers and GK are desperate allies.

sorry man. using eldar as grey knights is not only a proxy, its a bad one.

fail all around.

1. GK and DE should NOT be allies...ever. the 2 are so opposite each other in mentality, its...just wrong. FAIL!
2. it sounds like you are trying to power game into an unbeatable army, using 2 forces that dont belong, purley for the "i win" combo = FAIL
3. proxxying eldar... as gk... the 2 dont even look alike. i mean ....at least use chaos marines... or vanilla marines... or something in marine esque armor - there are so many choices. not all of wich are GW. so .... FAIL!!!

at least that female marine posing as corteaz shows some thought and work... you just come across as lazy. "i want this super combo but i dont want to buy or put the work into converting so ill just use parts of my old/brothers/friends army instead"

yeesh. its gak like this that wrecks allies for me.

shame on you.

Proxy is using an existing GW model with minimal changes.

This is Calgar

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/539239-Chapter%20Master%2C%20Marneus%20Calgar%2C%20Ultramarines%2C%20Warhammer%2040%2C000.html

This is Count As Calgar

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/430605-Conversion%2C%20Space%20Marines%2C%20Warhammer%2040%2C000.html

This is Count As Calgar for a different Faction

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/282345-Astartes%2C%20Banner%2C%20Berserk%2C%20Berzerk%2C%20Champion%2C%20Chaos%2C%20Chaos%20Space%20Marines.html

This is NOT Count As Calgar

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/484311-Chaos%20Space%20Marines%2C%20Mutilators%2C%20Nurgle%2C%20Warhammer%2040%2C000.html

They all have the signature twin power fists but the Mutilator is obviously a Mutilator.
If it had two Storm Bolters on its shoulders it would be more passable as CA Calgar.

-Dert

EDIT: Crud.. how do you attach images from gallery?

I play Ultramarines 3rd company, my captain has a power sword and plasma pistol, he has a cloak, helmet crest, is obviously an Ultramarine. Sometimes I use him as a 'Counts as' Sicarius, this is okay as he has the same load out, shares many aesthetics of the actual Sicarius model and is the same size.
If I suddenly decided that I wanted to use him as Eldrad Ulthran, that would not be acceptable and would be proxying. You are doing the latter.

Bad proxying.

Proxy.

I would take it if you are building your GK detachment and simply want to test it sooner than your fingers can paint those gakkers But I cant imagine regular games when I must accept that the grey autarch is coteaz. Nope, nope, nope.

Such a proxy




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarthSpader wrote:
sorry man. using eldar as grey knights is not only a proxy, its a bad one.

fail all around.

1. GK and DE should NOT be allies...ever. the 2 are so opposite each other in mentality, its...just wrong. FAIL!

Actually, the rules allow it. They are desperate allies. I have no idea why, but they are.

That is most definitely a proxy. And a bad one at that.
It is only acceptable as a 'counts as' if it really looks like the original model.
Converting an autarch into a believable looking inquisitor will require so much conversion that it would be better to just buy the actual model.
Also warwalker as dreadnought? No way. You might as well use a plastic bottle as proxy at that point...

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Such a proxy




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarthSpader wrote:
sorry man. using eldar as grey knights is not only a proxy, its a bad one.

fail all around.

1. GK and DE should NOT be allies...ever. the 2 are so opposite each other in mentality, its...just wrong. FAIL!

Actually, the rules allow it. They are desperate allies. I have no idea why, but they are.

I think the reasoning behind DE and GK being desperate allies is that they do have some common enemies, most notably Chaos.

Yeah, this is a proxy, acceptable only for friendly games. (Personally, I let anyone proxy anything - one time I had a dude using small cardboard boxes that had "LAND RAIDER" written on them as Land Raiders. But this is my personal policy, it is not a rulebook rule.)

Sounds like a proxy to me. I'd be cool with it, but if you want to bring it into line with counts-as, I'd alter the model to more closely represent the equipment that the actual model has.

Definitely a proxy. If you had converted the models so that they're all armed with the correct weapons I'd probably call that counts as, but not as is.

DE and GK are so opposite ends of the spectrum...

DE are all about indulgance. pleasure from pain, live for the now, get enjoyment from anything. they are also inherently evil, deceptive, and completly depraved. probally THE best example of pure evil in the game. (nids are just instinctive predators on a massive scale, and chaos is... "the tragic evil twin" chaos daemons maybe tie)

GK on the other hand are the most monastic (re: nuns) of a monastic faction. they hate anything daemonic, and DE could arguably be considered daemonic at least in action and possibly appearence. the GK are also supposed to be the eliete good of the good guys. even more "pure" then the normal marines. for them to consider wading into the filth thats the DE... draigo would spin in his grave.

just because they are allowed to in the rules as desperate allies, dosent mean you SHO?uLD. i am totally allowed to ride a wheelchair down a flight stairs... it dosent mean i should do it.

all this is, is an attempt at the i win button, and its a bad one. DE have better alliance choices for everything GK offers. eldar for psychic fun is a good example. they certainly dont need the combat support, since DE have arguabbly better CC units then GK does. but based on the list he mentioned hes looking for a corteaz henchmen spam ally, so he can get lots of special/heavy AP 1-2 weapons....

um dude... 4 trueborn. 4 blasters. venom = 173 points. DONE. 4 shots at bs4 str 8 ap 2 and lance. plus 12 4+ poison shots at 36" you dont need corteaz and the now redundant GK trick of henchmen to do this.

that is why you fail.

It is definitely a proxy. But there is nothing wrong with that. It isn't "the dreaded p word". Our hobby is very expensive we all know that. If I have a cool idea for a list I am going to proxy it until I can get everything together. I would imagine someone who wants to try out necron AV13 spam isn't going to go buy 10 AV13 vehicles to test his theory out with.

This is why we have things like proxy and vassal. They are tools to help us as customers make informed decisions with our money. They are nothing to be ridiculed for.

I still use my 3 korganova sisters as my Jokero. But I play a sisters of battle list and I hate the idea of my inquisitor having xenos in my army. So even though my "monkeys" look like female commissars. Its kind of hard to model a digi weapon. Ive had some people tell me they love the models. Ive had some people ask why im not just using jokaero models. But frankly conversions, proxies, and counts as are the reason I love inquisitor retinues so much. They can really be just about anything.