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2013/12/30 07:00:16
Subject: The Ridiculousness of Escalation....or Is It? Eldar Phantom vs Dual Necron C'tans (Completed)
This game is an experiment between a balanced Escalation build against an unbalanced Escalation build. Eldar will be running a Phantom, which will be 71% of the cost of the entire army, in a single-FOC Escalation build. Necrons, on the other hand, will be running 2 Transcendent C'tans in a double-FOC Escalation build. Their twin-deathstars will take up 49% of the cost of their army. Now my rule-of-thumb is that the larger your titan (called Lords of War units in Escalation) is, the more unbalanced the army will be. That is because the smaller the percentage of the army your titan(s) is, the more supporting units you can fit into the army. It is the supporting units which help to balance out your Escalation army. Of the 2 armies, I consider Necrons to be the balanced army and Eldar to be the unbalanced one.
I will be running Eldar in this game. My opponent for the game will be William, aka ImotekhTheStormlord here on dakka. William is an experienced Necron player and also a very tactical player as well. He recently won Best General at a recent local tournament - Celesticon - and was my only loss at the 2013 Bay Area Open GT (where I went 5-1-1 to win Best Tyranid Player). Currently, I am 1-1 when going against his Necrons in regular 40K. BTW, the last game we played - my Wraithwing Necrons versus his Seer Council Deldar - can be found here:
So how powerful is the Phantom titan? Will he be a 1-man wrecking crew or is he totally helpless against flyers? How nasty are 2 C'tans, both each with a humongous Destroyer template and 6D6 S8 shots? Can Void Shields be a difference-maker in these types of games? How about 9 Void Shields? How important is balance, even in games of Escalation? I have a few hypotheses, and I think this game will help to confirm some of my them. So sit back, relax and enjoy the ride. You're going to be in for a battle of Monstrous proportions.
The Phantom Titan is an amazingly over-the-top unit. I have almost no chance to destroy it, at best I will get some VPs from lost HPs. Instead, my main priority will be in destroying the Nightwing Interceptors in order to remove most of the threat to my scythes. Since I am going first the Nightwings will be jump on my scythes, especially since the laughingseer rolled up Scrier's Gaze.
However, this is not necessarily a bad thing. I will hang my A-Barges back behind buildings, letting the C'tan duel with the Phantom and hopefully take 2-3 turns to die horribly. My flyers will try to use the void shields as shelter and draw the Nightwing Interceptors into the Annihilation Barge threat radii. A "mousetrap" if you will, that, when sprung in cohesion with the Night Scythes, should(hopefully) be able to shoot down 2-3 of his flyers. Then it will be a game of Cat-and-Mouse with his jetbikes and my Flyer Troops.
Anrakyr will try to apply pressure to the Phantom Titan, threatening with it with MiTM. Though I doubt his power will be used, it's potential to destroy troops and even threaten flyers is formidable, so his scythe is sure to attract the attention of Nightwings.
In short, I would call myself the underdog for this battle, though the game should be awesome just by the merit of the Phantom's presence
Eldar: (by Jy2)
So how devastating is the Eldar Phantom Titan? He's got:
8 Destroyer 5" pie-plates (4 each per main gun)
4 S7 AP3 Skyfire Interceptor shots
4 S8 AP3 shots
2 S8 AP2 shots
24 Hull points
Can ignore shots on a 1-3 or 1-2 depending if it moves or not.
Will most likely be Guided or Prescienced by the farseer.
Basically, any ground unit that it can see will die. It can even kill 2 C'tans in 1 turn! Only flyers have a chance against it but even they aren't completely safe.
But the titan probably isn't the only unit that will win Eldar the game. They've got 6 very fast troop units and are going 2nd in an objectives game.
Now with that said, I've got a few hypothesis. I'm going to post my hypothesis in mathematical terms. Don't worry, you don't need an advance degree in Mathematics to understand what I'm talking about.
Phantom > C'tans
9 Void Shields > 3 Void Shields
Balanced army > Unbalanced army
Necrons > Eldar
Yeah, I know, the last one is a bold claim and I'm probably going to take some heat for this. But the reason why necrons IMO are superior is because their troops in flyers are better than the fragile Eldar troops. So while I think Eldar has an advantage in this game, necrons have a very real chance to upset the Phantom in this game.
My only advice to my opponent is this....PLAY THE MISSION.
BTW, I forgot about the Agile rule in this game. Thus, I was playing my Nightwings with only 3+ cover, but that's ok. It's my bad for not knowing my own rules and thus, I accept the consequences.
Warlord Traits - we both get the same Warlord traits: -1 on the Destroyer damage charts against the Warlord and his unit.
No Night-fight.
Necron deployment. William deploys the 2 C'tans behind his Tesseract Flux Network (which we played as LOS-blocking).
Barges hide behind ruins.
Dun dun dun dun....
Sorry, but I will be using proxies in this game. I was supposed to borrow William's jetbikes but he had them in storage. So instead, I am running my nob bikers as windrider jetbikes.
Also, I will be proxying my Nightwing Interceptors as well.
BTW, the left building where my farseer is hiding behind is my Void Shield Generator. The Phantom is just in range of the Void Shields.
C'tans advance, making sure to still stay within the range of their Void Shields.
They are out of range to shoot with their destroyer templates (Wave of Withering) but can shoot with Seismic Assault.
So let's do the math here. Each C'tan has 6D6 S8 shots from Seismic Assault. What does mathhammer say?
2 Ct'ans = 12D6 shots = 42 shots on average. About 37 hits due to BS6. Because my Phantom hasn't moved yet, Eldar Titan Holo-fields will only block 1/3 of them, so that means 24 hits goes through. It will take 6 hits to eat through 3 Void Shields so that is 18 hits on the titan. With AV13, that means about 6 hits will glance or pen.
The C'tans take out all 3 Void Shields and 9 HP's from the Phantom. That is slightly above average.
More importantly, my opponent will automatically get 3 VP's for the damage that he has done so far.
Eldar 1
Spoiler:
Eldar movement. Farseer casts Guide on the Phantom.
BTW, his powers are Guide, Prescience and Scryer's Gaze.
The Phantom then moves behind the ruins. Now that's a 4+ Holo-field save as well as 4+ cover!
The Phantom is a rather tall model. Hard to hide from him. I'm looking at you, C'tans.
He fires everything at the lead C'tan. 6 S8 shots and 4 S7 shots help to take down a few Void Shields. The 8 destroyer blasts take out the rest. One of them even manages to successfully hit the C'tan, causing 3W to him.
Necrons 2
Spoiler:
Only 2 night scythes come in, and they are the ones with his 2 HQ's. I've positioned my titan out of range of Anrakyr's Mind in the Machine ability so my opponent decides to keep him in his flyer.
C'tans advance 18".
Barge advances 12" and then moves flat-out another 6",
Overview of Necron movement. His C'tans are now in range to unleash their powerful template weapon.
Due to 4+ cover (from 1 of his C'tans only) and a 4+ Holo-field save because my titan moved, my titan only loses another 7 HP this turn (16 HP's in total). I believe his Holo-fields even blocks one of the destroyer shots.
However, the destroyer shot from the C'tan also hits and kills 1 biker. The unit then fails morale and huffs it off the table, giving the necrons First Blood.
Last but not least, each of his Void Shield Generators regenerate 1 Void Shield each.
Not too bad. The C'tans can actually generate a surprising amount of firepower. It is no small feat to take out 16 HP's from an Eldar titan.
Eldar 2
Spoiler:
Farseer uses Scryer's Gaze to keep the jetbike troops out and to help the flyers come in.
However, I forget about the void shields and they block my flyers' attempts to take out the necron flyers. I believe I take out the void shields again but do no harm to his flyers.
All I can say here is, Ouch! Both C'tans go down to the Phantom's ridiculous firepower.
The explosion, however does manage to take off another 1 HP from the Phantom.
Finally, the Eldar Void Shield Generator regenerates back 1 Void Shield.
Necrons 3
Spoiler:
The rest of his army comes in.
Barges move up 12".
1 scythe drops off a unit of warriors.
Both HQ's disembark separately from their units. The Overlord hides and Anrakyr shows his face in order to use Mind in the Machine on my titan.
The Phantom intercepts one of the night scythes and take off 1 (or 2?) HP's from it.
Anrakyr then uses the Eldar titan to blow away their Void Shield Generator, 1 unit of jetbikes and the Warlord farseer. I make 2 mistakes here. I actually forget to move my jetbikes and I put the farseer a little too close to the generator. Thus, my opponent was able to put the D blasts over both the VSG and my Warlord.
And just like that, all 3 units gone in the blink of an eye.
More bad news for Eldar. Necrons focus all of their shooting on the Nightwing Interceptors and I roll abyssmally for their saves (almost all 1's and 2's). I lose all 3 flyers!
And just like that, all 6 units gone faster than you can make Minute-rice.
Eldar 3
Spoiler:
3 jetbikes come in this turn. One turbo-boosts behind BLOS (blocking line-of-sight) terrain.
And 2 goes after the warriors.
They take out 4 warriors but 1 gets back up.
The Phantom then takes out Anrakyr (not the Necron Warlord)....
....and 1 barge.
Jetbikes then use their assault moves to get away from his Overlord and to screen out the Phantom.
Necrons 4
Spoiler:
Warriors disembark from the other night scythe, which then flies off the table.
Night scythes and AB advance.
Somehow, they take off another 1 HP from the Phantom. That's 18 HP's down, 6 more to go. That is also 6 VP's for the Phantom, plus 2 VP's for First Blood and my Warlord.
Overlord (Warlord) joins the unit of 2 warriors and they prepare to assault some jetbikes.
One of the barges go after another unit of jetbikes. It fires but only wound 3 times and the jetbikes make their saves.
It takes both night scythes and rapid-firing warriors, but they finally manage to take out my jetbikes.
Necrons make it into assault, though they do lose 1 warrior to Overwatch.
His Warlord kills 1 biker and they then sweep the unit.
Hmmm....my, how the tables have turned. Eldar has lost all 3 of their flyers and 4 of their 6 troops. Even though I've managed to take out both of the C'tans, I am actually losing in the battle of the titans 4 to 6 VP's.
One thing to note, throughout the game, William's focus has been very good. I've been trying to entice my opponent to the glory of taking down a Phantom, but no, he would have none of that. His focus was clear and I could not sway him from his path, not even with the temptation of a titan going nuclear. Now that's the difference between a competitive player and a casual one. A competitive player has a clear focus on what he needs to do. A casual one would just try to make a titan go pop.
Eldar 4
Spoiler:
My last unit of jetbikes come in.
Jetbikes at mid-table turbo-boosts to claim an objective in my opponent's deployment zone. The jetbike in the ruins makes his dangerous terrain test. One thing to note is that the lower level of that ruins blocks LOS.
Titan moves to get a better view of the table.
It continues to delete 2 units a turn. This turn, it is the rest of the annihilation barges. It also takes out 1 of the Void Shield Generators.
Necrons 5
Spoiler:
Night scythe comes in and its troops disembark.
Necrons disembark their other unit of troops to contest/grab another objective.
The movement of his night scythes.
The Phantom intercepts one of the night scythes, takes 2 HP's off of it and blows off its tesla-destructors.
Necrons kill off 2 bikers. However, there is still 1 more biker alive behind the BLOS ruins. I knew my opponent would go after them so I hid him there so that 1) my opponent couldn't allocate wounds on him and 2) hopefully, he forgets what he can't see.
The combined firepower of his warriors and 1 night scythe takes out my unit of jetbikes.
I am down to just 1 solitary jetbike left in this game.
Eldar 5
Spoiler:
Where there's a will, there's a way. Lone jetbike turbo-boosts to the mid-table objective.
Titan maneuvers so that he can see both Necron troop choices. It then proceeds to delete them both.
It also fires some of its guns at the warriors below and kills 3. 1 gets back up.
I then surprise my opponent by assaulting the warriors. However, the Phantom whiffs, gets only 1 stomp attack and then proceed to roll a on the damage charts.
So as it is currently, Eldar has 4 VP's for killing the 2 C'tans and 1 objective, worth D3 VP's. Eldar also has 2 scoring units left (1 jetbike and the Phantom) for another 2 VP's. Necrons have 6 VP's for taking off 18 HP's from the Phantom. They've also got First Blood, Warlord, Linebreaker and 3 troops left (though 1 is in ongoing reserves) for another 5 VP's. However, they don't have any objectives currently.
So far, it is Necrons 11 to Eldar 6+D3 VP's. Eldar needs for the game to continue in order to avoid the upset.
We roll to see if there will be Turn 6 and.....
Necrons 6
Spoiler:
There will be another turn.
Necron movement.
Uh oh....
...spaghetti O's.
No more eldar troops....though my Phantom is scoring.
Splat!
2 more necron troops to go.
Eldar 6
Spoiler:
I don't think I can win this, but I can sure make it close. Phantom moves to be able to see the Necron Warlord.
Time to play the denial game.
I fire 4 D blasts on the Void Shield Generator, hoping that 1 would scatter onto his troops. They don't. I do, however, erase all the Void Shields and take out the 2nd Generator as well (1 remaining).
Skyfire by the Phantom also takes out 1 night scythe.
The Phantom does, however, wipe out the Necron Warlord as well as another scoring unit.
So this turn (and last), I take out 2 scoring units and his Warlord. By doing so, I also deny my opponent Linebreaker. That is a 4 VP turn-around.
However, is it enough?
We roll to see if the game continues but it doesn't.
My opponent has just 1 troop left on an objective (as well as 4 flyers).
Eldar has Warlord, 1 scoring unit remaining (the Phantom) and 4 VP's from enemy Lords of War units for a total of 6 VP's.
Necrons have Warlord, First Blood, 1 scoring unit remaining and 6 VP's from the enemy Lord of War unit (for causing 18 HP's of damage to my Phantom). He's also got 1 objective for 8+D3 VP's.
This one will be interesting, I know very little about the Eldar fliers but I think they will be the X factor in this battle.
Silacier & Rozgarth: Hey you should start playing warmahords with us.
Me: OK (sets down Tyranid, drives to store and picks up Legion of Everblight)
Me: the more things change....
2013/12/30 08:03:07
Subject: The Ridiculousness of Escalation....or Is It? Eldar Phantom vs Dual Necron C'tans
sandant wrote: This one will be interesting, I know very little about the Eldar fliers but I think they will be the X factor in this battle.
It's actually very good. It's got 2 bright lances and 2 shuriken cannons. Also, it can turn 90 degrees after moving, but the kicker is this....it's got 2+ cover if it jinks!
I have used the nightwing several times and it's a very annoying unit that the opponent cannot afford to ignore due to the vector dancer allowing to hit the rear armor of other flyers and vehicles reliably.
M.
Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.
About the Clans: "Those brief outbursts of sense can't hold back the wave of sibko bred, over hormoned sociopaths that they crank out though."
2013/12/30 12:59:05
Subject: The Ridiculousness of Escalation....or Is It? Eldar Phantom vs Dual Necron C'tans
Whoever goes second has a good shot at winning - these are both armies that can claim objectives at the last minute very well. I voted Necrons, but I think the Eldar also have a good chance to get it - the Phantom is durable enough to endure the sheer firepower of the Necron army, and those Nightwings with wreak havoc if they come on at a good time. The Phantom has a legitemate shot at killing both c'tan in a single turn, especially with Farseer support to make sure those blasts land on target, so it will come down to who makes best use of the terrain on the board and how hard the Necron alphastrike hits the Phantom... 24 hull points is a lot to get through even with Destroyer weapons. I think the Night Scythes will be weaker in this matchup than they are versus a Revenant because of the Phantom's superior armour, but they could still do some heavy damage if they manage to avoid being shot down.
This will be a very interesting game for sure! It's cool that you did end up going with the Phantom, will be interesting to see just how destructive it is. Right now I'm predicting the Necrons are almost tabled but win on objectives.
Currently not in posession of any armies - I merely theorycraft and discuss background,
Waiting for HH Book 6 so I can start an Imperial Army army.
2013/12/30 17:29:36
Subject: The Ridiculousness of Escalation....or Is It? Eldar Phantom vs Dual Necron C'tans
The Phantom will win the game The Titan holo-fields are so good, even against D-weapons. The amount of firepower in that thing is ungodly. Eldar also have the superior flyers here.
It all depends whether they can keep their tiny jetbike squads alive.
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2013/12/30 18:03:15
Subject: The Ridiculousness of Escalation....or Is It? Eldar Phantom vs Dual Necron C'tans
Looking at the picture you posted, the Necrons appear to have 3 good pieces of LOS blocking terrain. That could very well be the factor that allows them to win this, as the Phantom has fairly limited manueverability.
2013/12/30 18:14:33
Subject: The Ridiculousness of Escalation....or Is It? Eldar Phantom vs Dual Necron C'tans
That Necron list looks ridiculously good, but I do not have firsthand experience with the Eldar FW flyers, I've only seen them in action once. They could turn the tide if they can shoot down the Nightscythes.
Argel Tal and Cyrene: Still a better love story than Twilight
2013/12/30 18:54:47
Subject: Re:The Ridiculousness of Escalation....or Is It? Eldar Phantom vs Dual Necron C'tans
I thought that the game went really well. It was honestly kinda funny from what I saw. I think that the battle report is going to be great.
@jy2
your armor cast Phantom looks awesome
Its unfortunate that the Phantom has skyfire. If it didn't I think the game would have gone a little differently. It would have changed the strategy for Imotekh.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/30 18:56:07
2013/12/30 19:07:34
Subject: Re:The Ridiculousness of Escalation....or Is It? Eldar Phantom vs Dual Necron C'tans
Wow the Phantom is extremely powerful. I dont think the Necrons will have enough to deal with it as youre more than likely going to lose both Ctans in, at most, two turns.
-5000 Pts. of Orks
-1750 Pts. of Ravenwing
2013/12/30 19:14:47
Subject: Re:The Ridiculousness of Escalation....or Is It? Eldar Phantom vs Dual Necron C'tans
y0disisray wrote: Wow the Phantom is extremely powerful. I dont think the Necrons will have enough to deal with it as youre more than likely going to lose both Ctans in, at most, two turns.
Remember though, this is an objective game. If William can play it right, he could still have a good chance at winning. As long as he can get over the power of the Phantom and avoid it, I think that he will prevail.
2013/12/30 20:10:20
Subject: The Ridiculousness of Escalation....or Is It? Eldar Phantom vs Dual Necron C'tans
Even with the 9 shields that the necron player has, his ground forces have a good chance of being gone by turn 3.
I think that the Necron fliers are going to have to drop troops early on to avoid being tabled when they fly off. each unit dropped will be deleted on the Eldar players turn by the titan until there is none left. At this point the eldar will have the VP lead for objectives, and some bonus VP for all the C-tan wounds. All the while, the Necron fliers are either wasting shots on the 2+ jink nightwings, struggling to gain VPs from stripping HP from the Titan, or targeting troops; which, even if he gets all the jetbikes, it wont mean much do to the nightwings downing his fliers all game and having the Titan delete the scorring units that walk on. I feel like the only way he has even a small chance is if he downs the titan. With 24 HP behind titan holofields and void shields, this probably wont happen.
4000 points: Craftworld Mymeara
2013/12/30 21:19:46
Subject: The Ridiculousness of Escalation....or Is It? Eldar Phantom vs Dual Necron C'tans
Illumini wrote: What weapons do the phantom have and how many units can it target?
In this Config I believe:
Arm with 4 Str D Large Blasts
Arm with 4 Str D Large Blasts
Gun with 4 Str 7 AP 3 Skyfire Interceptor Shots
Gun with 4 Str 8 AP 2 shots
Gun with 2 Str 8 AP 2 shots.
Celesticon 2013 Warhammer 40k Tournament- Best General
Sydney August 2014 Warhammer 40k Tournament-Best General
2013/12/30 21:21:10
Subject: The Ridiculousness of Escalation....or Is It? Eldar Phantom vs Dual Necron C'tans
The Phantom Titan is an amazingly over-the-top unit. I have almost no chance to destroy it, at best I will get some VPs from lost HPs. Instead, my main priority will be in destroying the Nightwing Interceptors in order to remove most of the threat to my scythes. Since I am going first the Nightwings will be jump on my scythes, especially since the laughingseer rolled up Scrier's Gaze.
However, this is not necessarily a bad thing. I will hang my A-Barges back behind buildings, letting the C'tan duel with the Phantom and hopefully take 2-3 turns to die horribly. My flyers will try to use the void shields as shelter and draw the Nightwing Interceptors into the Annihilation Barge threat radii. A "mousetrap" if you will, that, when sprung in cohesion with the Night Scythes, should(hopefully) be able to shoot down 2-3 of his flyers. Then it will be a game of Cat-and-Mouse with his jetbikes and my Flyer Troops.
Anrakyr will try to apply pressure to the Phantom Titan, threatening with it with MiTM. Though I doubt his power will be used, it's potential to destroy troops and even threaten flyers is formidable, so his scythe is sure to attract the attention of Nightwings.
In short, I would call myself the underdog for this battle, though the game should be awesome just by the merit of the Phantom's presence .
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/30 22:21:14
Celesticon 2013 Warhammer 40k Tournament- Best General
Sydney August 2014 Warhammer 40k Tournament-Best General
2013/12/30 22:22:00
Subject: The Ridiculousness of Escalation....or Is It? Eldar Phantom vs Dual Necron C'tans
Dakkamite wrote: I'm unimpressed that a 'balanced' army and a 'spam' army are evidentally the same gak nowadays
But we can hardly blame escalation for that can we
I figured out that one when I started posting here. My balanced list (little bit of everything) was deemed unworthy, I was not spamming units.
But as a casual player D weapons unsatisfy me the same way the turn 5 objective grabbing does. Yet I kinda enjoy these reports, rather than the usual tournament reports of Tau/Eldar spamlists. So, bring it on!
Not having Escalation, do SM have anything besides Thunderhawk?
2013/12/30 22:26:22
Subject: Re:The Ridiculousness of Escalation....or Is It? Eldar Phantom vs Dual Necron C'tans
ImotekhTheStormlord wrote: Necron Pre-game:
However, this is not necessarily a bad thing. I will hang my A-Barges back behind buildings, letting the C'tan duel with the Phantom and hopefully take 2-3 turns to die horribly. My flyers will try to use the void shields as shelter and draw the Nightwing Interceptors into the Annihilation Barge threat radii. A "mousetrap" if you will, that, when sprung in cohesion with the Night Scythes, should(hopefully) be able to shoot down 2-3 of his flyers. Then it will be a game of Cat-and-Mouse with his jetbikes and my Flyer Troops.
Unless you can ignore Jink/Cover I'm not sure how you can bring down his Nightwings except by volume of fire and hoping he rolls a 1 a few times...
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2013/12/30 23:42:27
Subject: Re:The Ridiculousness of Escalation....or Is It? Eldar Phantom vs Dual Necron C'tans
ImotekhTheStormlord wrote: Necron Pre-game:
However, this is not necessarily a bad thing. I will hang my A-Barges back behind buildings, letting the C'tan duel with the Phantom and hopefully take 2-3 turns to die horribly. My flyers will try to use the void shields as shelter and draw the Nightwing Interceptors into the Annihilation Barge threat radii. A "mousetrap" if you will, that, when sprung in cohesion with the Night Scythes, should(hopefully) be able to shoot down 2-3 of his flyers. Then it will be a game of Cat-and-Mouse with his jetbikes and my Flyer Troops.
Unless you can ignore Jink/Cover I'm not sure how you can bring down his Nightwings except by volume of fire and hoping he rolls a 1 a few times...
Its not as bad as one would think.
Each A-Barge averages 3.7 Hits with snap shot TD.
Each A-Barge averages 1 Hit with its snap shot TC Each Night Scythe gets roughly 6 hits with its full BS TD
So if I get 4 NSs and all 3 barges firing:
4
I get 1.5 glances/pens from the TCs
I get 7-8 glances/pens from the A-Barge TDs
I get 16 glances/pens from the N-Scythe TDs
After Jink,
I do just over 4 HPs of damage, not including the results on the damage table against the 2+ jinking Nightwing.
Also, very importantly, we did not know what the 'agile' rule meant at the time, so we house-ruled it to be a 3+ save, which would essentially double the number of results.
So even without the jink nerf I could cripple or even kill the eldar airfleet, especially without.
This would be a best-case scenario though.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/12/30 23:45:25
Celesticon 2013 Warhammer 40k Tournament- Best General
Sydney August 2014 Warhammer 40k Tournament-Best General
2013/12/31 01:07:47
Subject: Re:The Ridiculousness of Escalation....or Is It? Eldar Phantom vs Dual Necron C'tans
Which is all fine and dandy except you're going first. He's going to get the alpha strike on your fliers with his and im sure the Phantom will intercept one unless you hide them really well.
-5000 Pts. of Orks
-1750 Pts. of Ravenwing
2013/12/31 02:40:42
Subject: Re:The Ridiculousness of Escalation....or Is It? Eldar Phantom vs Dual Necron C'tans
y0disisray wrote: Which is all fine and dandy except you're going first. He's going to get the alpha strike on your fliers with his and im sure the Phantom will intercept one unless you hide them really well.
True 'nuff.
The scythes will be used as bait, however, to get the nightwings into the Annihilation Barge threat zones.
How it went, well,
I guess we'll find out.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/31 02:41:57
Celesticon 2013 Warhammer 40k Tournament- Best General
Sydney August 2014 Warhammer 40k Tournament-Best General
2013/12/31 03:02:42
Subject: Re:The Ridiculousness of Escalation....or Is It? Eldar Phantom vs Dual Necron C'tans
Its unfortunate that the Phantom has skyfire. If it didn't I think the game would have gone a little differently. It would have changed the strategy for Imotekh.
Hey now. No spoilers!
Really looking forward to seeing how this one turns out. If the Phantom dies, which it won't, that's an unwinnable scenario for jy2, but if the Eldar get good results from their AA that will probably decide the game. I am expecting the c'tan won't do a great deal since Imhotek will want to slide them in and that means they have no hope of assauting it, 4 D shots per c'tan is definitely enough to wipe them out unless they manage to keep void shield cover or there are some terrible rolls going on.
Currently not in posession of any armies - I merely theorycraft and discuss background,
Waiting for HH Book 6 so I can start an Imperial Army army.
2013/12/31 03:10:40
Subject: The Ridiculousness of Escalation....or Is It? Eldar Phantom vs Dual Necron C'tans
when you're at your weakest at night..in that period between reality in sleep..you'll hear a noise in the distance sounding a bit like gunfire going..dakkadakkadakkadakka
2013/12/31 12:43:01
Subject: The Ridiculousness of Escalation....or Is It? Eldar Phantom vs Dual Necron C'tans
The necrons would win automatically if they didn`t bring superheavies themselves. 3,5k of necrons would have no problem tying the phantom up in close combat, knock those flyers out of the air from sheer amount of S7 and have plenty of units left to clean up the bikers.
So how devastating is the Eldar Phantom Titan? He's got:
8 Destroyer 5" pie-plates (4 each per main gun)
4 S7 AP3 Skyfire Interceptor shots
4 S8 AP3 shots
2 S8 AP2 shots
24 Hull points
Can ignore shots on a 1-3 or 1-2 depending if it moves or not.
Will most likely be Guided or Prescienced by the farseer.
Basically, any ground unit that it can see will die. It can even kill 2 C'tans in 1 turn! Only flyers have a chance against it but even they aren't completely safe.
But the titan probably isn't the only unit that will win Eldar the game. They've got 6 very fast troop units and are going 2nd in an objectives game.
Now with that said, I've got a few hypothesis. I'm going to post my hypothesis in mathematical terms. Don't worry, you don't need an advance degree in Mathematics to understand what I'm talking about.
Phantom > C'tans
9 Void Shields > 3 Void Shields
Balanced army > Unbalanced army
Necrons > Eldar
Yeah, I know, the last one is a bold claim and I'm probably going to take some heat for this. But the reason why necrons IMO are superior is because their troops in flyers are better than the fragile Eldar troops. So while I think Eldar has an advantage in this game, necrons have a very real chance to upset the Phantom in this game.
My only advice to my opponent is this....PLAY THE MISSION.
BTW, I forgot about the Agile rule in this game. Thus, I was playing my Nightwings with only 3+ cover, but that's ok. It's my bad for not knowing my own rules and thus, I accept the consequences.
The Phantom Titan is an amazingly over-the-top unit. I have almost no chance to destroy it, at best I will get some VPs from lost HPs. Instead, my main priority will be in destroying the Nightwing Interceptors in order to remove most of the threat to my scythes. Since I am going first the Nightwings will be jump on my scythes, especially since the laughingseer rolled up Scrier's Gaze.
However, this is not necessarily a bad thing. I will hang my A-Barges back behind buildings, letting the C'tan duel with the Phantom and hopefully take 2-3 turns to die horribly. My flyers will try to use the void shields as shelter and draw the Nightwing Interceptors into the Annihilation Barge threat radii. A "mousetrap" if you will, that, when sprung in cohesion with the Night Scythes, should(hopefully) be able to shoot down 2-3 of his flyers. Then it will be a game of Cat-and-Mouse with his jetbikes and my Flyer Troops.
Anrakyr will try to apply pressure to the Phantom Titan, threatening with it with MiTM. Though I doubt his power will be used, it's potential to destroy troops and even threaten flyers is formidable, so his scythe is sure to attract the attention of Nightwings.
In short, I would call myself the underdog for this battle, though the game should be awesome just by the merit of the Phantom's presence .
Thanks, Will. I will add your Pre-game above.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Illumini wrote: What weapons do the phantom have and how many units can it target?
It can target up to 5. See my Pre-game for its weapon load-outs.
Illumini wrote: What weapons do the phantom have and how many units can it target?
Two Pulsars that fire 4 D blasts each.
A missile launcher that has skyfire.
A bunch of other weapons that no one really cares about.
Actually, its other weapons are really useful in helping to knock out Void Shields. So with 6 Prescienced S8 shots and 4 Prescienced S7 shots, I have a decent chance to knock out 3-4 Void Shields before allocating the Destroyer shots on the rest.
thisisnotaseriousaccount wrote: Whoever goes second has a good shot at winning - these are both armies that can claim objectives at the last minute very well. I voted Necrons, but I think the Eldar also have a good chance to get it - the Phantom is durable enough to endure the sheer firepower of the Necron army, and those Nightwings with wreak havoc if they come on at a good time. The Phantom has a legitemate shot at killing both c'tan in a single turn, especially with Farseer support to make sure those blasts land on target, so it will come down to who makes best use of the terrain on the board and how hard the Necron alphastrike hits the Phantom... 24 hull points is a lot to get through even with Destroyer weapons. I think the Night Scythes will be weaker in this matchup than they are versus a Revenant because of the Phantom's superior armour, but they could still do some heavy damage if they manage to avoid being shot down.
This will be a very interesting game for sure! It's cool that you did end up going with the Phantom, will be interesting to see just how destructive it is. Right now I'm predicting the Necrons are almost tabled but win on objectives.
Agreed. I predict that they are nearly tabled as well with the exceptions of flyers and whatever troops survive...assuming the game ends on 5.
Too bad Eldar are going 2nd though.
Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote: Looking at the picture you posted, the Necrons appear to have 3 good pieces of LOS blocking terrain. That could very well be the factor that allows them to win this, as the Phantom has fairly limited manueverability.
Agreed. How well the C'tans - and as a result, necrons - do may depend on how my opponent can take advantage of the LOS-blocking terrain.
Commander_Farsight wrote: I thought that the game went really well. It was honestly kinda funny from what I saw. I think that the battle report is going to be great.
@jy2
your armor cast Phantom looks awesome
Its unfortunate that the Phantom has skyfire. If it didn't I think the game would have gone a little differently. It would have changed the strategy for Imotekh.
Thanks. The Armorcast Phantom is much better looking than some of the other titans coming from Armorcast (and in particular, the Revenant and the Warhound, both of which looks somewhat comical).
y0disisray wrote: Wow the Phantom is extremely powerful. I dont think the Necrons will have enough to deal with it as youre more than likely going to lose both Ctans in, at most, two turns.
Remember though, this is an objective game. If William can play it right, he could still have a good chance at winning. As long as he can get over the power of the Phantom and avoid it, I think that he will prevail.
Actually, trying to kill the Phantom may not be such a bad idea after all. He's worth 8 VP's if killed! That'll probably be more VP's than my opponent can get on objectives, because trust me, his troops won't survive long to claim the objectives.
LeadLegion wrote: Very keen to see the results of this one. I think your coverage of the new Escalation meta has been the best I've come across on the web so far.
Thanks. I was a huge fan of Apoc and I am actually a big proponent of Escalation in a fun, casual setting.
I only hope that my coverage of Escalation helps to alleviate a lot of the concerns about it by the average gamer. Nothing like education to help calm the mass hysteria.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/12/31 18:14:39
I'm also a huge fan of casual Apocalypse Games, as well as City Fight, Planetstrike and the like. From the point of view of a (former) TO I'm horrified by the addition of Escalation, Data-Files and Codex Supplements to the game. But in terms of Casual play, they've added something fresh and new to the game to keep it interesting.
If you're going up against another casual player who doesn't (ultimately) care who wins as long as everyone has a good time, then why not include some broken rules and units? Just as I wouldn't field a tournament list against a casual player, I wouldn't bring a Titan along to even a casual game against a tournament player. Not unless we'd agreed to use Escalation in advance.
I still can't see Escalation being permitted in many tournaments. I still cringe at the thought of what Colossals did to the warmachine scene. It took years for the competitive scene to recover from that particular trauma and drove away a good number of top-class players. Many of whom have yet to return to the game.
(Anyway, I digress. My money is also on the Eldar. Phantom Titans are stupid-powerful.)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/31 18:26:07
2013/12/31 18:38:43
Subject: The Ridiculousness of Escalation....or Is It? Eldar Phantom vs Dual Necron C'tans
Even with the 9 shields that the necron player has, his ground forces have a good chance of being gone by turn 3.
I think that the Necron fliers are going to have to drop troops early on to avoid being tabled when they fly off. each unit dropped will be deleted on the Eldar players turn by the titan until there is none left. At this point the eldar will have the VP lead for objectives, and some bonus VP for all the C-tan wounds. All the while, the Necron fliers are either wasting shots on the 2+ jink nightwings, struggling to gain VPs from stripping HP from the Titan, or targeting troops; which, even if he gets all the jetbikes, it wont mean much do to the nightwings downing his fliers all game and having the Titan delete the scorring units that walk on. I feel like the only way he has even a small chance is if he downs the titan. With 24 HP behind titan holofields and void shields, this probably wont happen.
I agree for the most part. However, the Phantom does not have the mobility of the Revenant. In addition, we are playing Hammer & Anvil. As long as necrons can drop off their troops completely behind LOS-blocking terrain, then they should be able to survive the onslaught of the Phantom.
However, the Phantom is a very tall model and can see over many of the BLOS terrain here.
Illumini wrote: What weapons do the phantom have and how many units can it target?
In this Config I believe:
Arm with 4 Str D Large Blasts
Arm with 4 Str D Large Blasts
Gun with 4 Str 7 AP 3 Skyfire Interceptor Shots
Gun with 4 Str 8 AP 2 shots
Gun with 2 Str 8 AP 2 shots.
Just a small correction.
Arm with 4 Str D Large Blasts
Arm with 4 Str D Large Blasts
Gun with 4 Str 7 AP 3 Skyfire Interceptor Shots
Gun with 4 Str 8 AP 3 shots
Gun with 2 Str 8 AP 2 shots
Dakkamite wrote: I'm unimpressed that a 'balanced' army and a 'spam' army are evidentally the same gak nowadays
But we can hardly blame escalation for that can we
A balanced Escalation army is one that can survive the firepower of another Escalation army. Unfortunately, the only way to do that is to min-max and spam those types of units.
Escalation won't be for everyone. While it is super-cool to finally be able to use the big guys, Escalation does tend to stagnate variety in army builds. It especially discourages the Elite builds, which sucks for current deathstar armies and many other builds. That's why I don't advocate using Escalation in normal play, but rather, in agreed-upon games where both parties can bring their own big guys.
on the damage charts. 
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