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Necrons have massive troubles. Objective game? Letting Eldar have last turn in an objective game is usually very very bad due to jetbikes, but now you must disembark, claim objectives, and then let the Titan have his fun with your troops for an entire Shooting phase before the game ends.

I predict an Eldar win.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Necrons have massive troubles. Objective game? Letting Eldar have last turn in an objective game is usually very very bad due to jetbikes, but now you must disembark, claim objectives, and then let the Titan have his fun with your troops for an entire Shooting phase before the game ends.

I predict an Eldar win.

This was my initial impression, but the Eldar troops are very fragile and the Necron flyers don't have much to shoot at because they can only glance the phantom. I could easily see Imhotek taking out several units of jetbikes before the Nightwings are able to exact their terrible vengeance, and that could easily be the decider. If I was going with pure maths I would say each c'tan will die to one pulsar, but given what seems to happen in jy2's battle reports I'm not sure that's actually going to happen.

 Miguelsan wrote:
I have used the nightwing several times and it's a very annoying unit that the opponent cannot afford to ignore due to the vector dancer allowing to hit the rear armor of other flyers and vehicles reliably.
M.

I love it. Flyers aren't very common in my meta, so I routinely use it as a tank hunter, but yeah it's ability to almost always get in somethings rear is amazing.

It's 2+ jink is great, but don't get me going about how Hell Turkeys can still vector strike it...

Spam vs. Spam. No imagination. No diversity of forces. If you can stop two things you beat spam. This is what west coast 40k has devolved into. I mean someone could have at least taken 5 rangers one time and then 5 min sized squads instead of 6.


Now that I think about it, maybe I'm being to harsh. Just because I don't like it doesn't mean everyone should.

Turn 2 Up.

Did the D-blasts scatter alot on the first turn? Cause I'm wondering how all that firepower only got 1 D hit on the C'tan...Each D blast will take out a void shield, and I'd hope the other weapons could glance AV12 more than twice.

Naw wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
I'm unimpressed that a 'balanced' army and a 'spam' army are evidentally the same gak nowadays

But we can hardly blame escalation for that can we

I figured out that one when I started posting here. My balanced list (little bit of everything) was deemed unworthy, I was not spamming units.

But as a casual player D weapons unsatisfy me the same way the turn 5 objective grabbing does. Yet I kinda enjoy these reports, rather than the usual tournament reports of Tau/Eldar spamlists. So, bring it on!

Not having Escalation, do SM have anything besides Thunderhawk?

At lower points (2K and below), the Warhound Scout Titan is the best Imperial Super-heavy. I wouldn't recommend the Reaver Titan unless you're playing at least 2.5K or higher.

 y0disisray wrote:
Which is all fine and dandy except you're going first. He's going to get the alpha strike on your fliers with his and im sure the Phantom will intercept one unless you hide them really well.

What my opponent did, and what all Escalation players should do, was to use his Void Shield Network to protect his flyers.

 Illumini wrote:
The necrons would win automatically if they didn`t bring superheavies themselves. 3,5k of necrons would have no problem tying the phantom up in close combat, knock those flyers out of the air from sheer amount of S7 and have plenty of units left to clean up the bikers.

Ironically, yes they would actually do better with just a normal double-FOC airforce list than they would with an Escalation list. The Necron Airforce is in essence the anti-Escalation army, though they won't really be able to do much against the titan itself.

 LeadLegion wrote:
I'm also a huge fan of casual Apocalypse Games, as well as City Fight, Planetstrike and the like. From the point of view of a (former) TO I'm horrified by the addition of Escalation, Data-Files and Codex Supplements to the game. But in terms of Casual play, they've added something fresh and new to the game to keep it interesting.

If you're going up against another casual player who doesn't (ultimately) care who wins as long as everyone has a good time, then why not include some broken rules and units? Just as I wouldn't field a tournament list against a casual player, I wouldn't bring a Titan along to even a casual game against a tournament player. Not unless we'd agreed to use Escalation in advance.

I still can't see Escalation being permitted in many tournaments. I still cringe at the thought of what Colossals did to the warmachine scene. It took years for the competitive scene to recover from that particular trauma and drove away a good number of top-class players. Many of whom have yet to return to the game.

(Anyway, I digress. My money is also on the Eldar. Phantom Titans are stupid-powerful.)

Agreed entirely.

Wow, the 'Crons sure did a number on the Phantom! I think the last C'tan might have a chance to finish it off, too.

Lucarikx

 Lucarikx wrote:
Wow, the 'Crons sure did a number on the Phantom! I think the last C'tan might have a chance to finish it off, too.

Lucarikx

Last?

Both went down.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

 Lucarikx wrote:
Wow, the 'Crons sure did a number on the Phantom! I think the last C'tan might have a chance to finish it off, too.

Lucarikx

Last?

Both went down.

Oops I should have read more carefully.

I guess the only hope now is Anrakyr?

Lucarikx

 djones520 wrote:

 Miguelsan wrote:
I have used the nightwing several times and it's a very annoying unit that the opponent cannot afford to ignore due to the vector dancer allowing to hit the rear armor of other flyers and vehicles reliably.
M.

I love it. Flyers aren't very common in my meta, so I routinely use it as a tank hunter, but yeah it's ability to almost always get in somethings rear is amazing.

It's 2+ jink is great, but don't get me going about how Hell Turkeys can still vector strike it...

Eldar flyers in this list is a necessity to address one of their biggest weaknesses, which is AA. Heldrakes will make for a great Escalation anti-build. Their job would be to hunt down the MSU troops and they can hurt other flyers with their Vector Strikes.

DarthDiggler wrote:
Spam vs. Spam. No imagination. No diversity of forces. If you can stop two things you beat spam. This is what west coast 40k has devolved into. I mean someone could have at least taken 5 rangers one time and then 5 min sized squads instead of 6.


Now that I think about it, maybe I'm being to harsh. Just because I don't like it doesn't mean everyone should.

Sadly, that will be the case if you're talking about competitive Escalation armies. While you can run variety in Escalation builds, they will mostly be sub-optimal builds due to how quickly Destroyer weapons will take them out. Like I said, Escalation isn't for everybody. Then again, not everybody will play Escalation competitively so you will see diversity even in general Escalation play.

BTW, I am of the opinion that this isn't really an East coast-West coast thing. Rather, I am just showcasing what the competitive Escalation meta would potentially look like.

 greyknight12 wrote:
Did the D-blasts scatter alot on the first turn? Cause I'm wondering how all that firepower only got 1 D hit on the C'tan...Each D blast will take out a void shield, and I'd hope the other weapons could glance AV12 more than twice.

Yeah, a couple did scatter off completely, even with Guide. I think I also might have rolled a to wound with another D blast.

Wow, that was punishing for the Eldar..

Will the Phantom delete enough units to win, maybe if it goes to turn 7?

I wonder if playing Agile correctly would have made a difference.

Wouldn't taking 2 Revenant titans instead of 1 Phantom titan be a better choice?
This way you can delete up to 4 units a turn and not only 2. Leftover points could be spent on more troops/anti-air.

macexor wrote:
Wouldn't taking 2 Revenant titans instead of 1 Phantom titan be a better choice?
This way you can delete up to 4 units a turn and not only 2. Leftover points could be spent on more troops/anti-air.

The Phantom has superior durability, though. If the Phantom in this game had been a Revenant it would easily have died turn 1, that would have been a crippling amount of firepower for the Eldar army to lose before it could fire. The Revenants also exchange skyfire for more targets with the D, which isn't really worth it against this kind of army. The point saving is nice, but perhaps not enough to level both advantages.

Crazy game so far. It seems like the dice have definitely been against jy2, but they could certainly still swing the other way - even though he has lost a lot of units, the Phantom means points-wise a large proportion of his force is still intact (i think). However, with only 6 jetbikes left he will be hard-pressed to get the late objectives he needs unless the Phantom can pull something sectacular out of the bag - which, being the the most powerful titan escalation allows, it might just manage.

thisisnotaseriousaccount wrote:

macexor wrote:
Wouldn't taking 2 Revenant titans instead of 1 Phantom titan be a better choice?
This way you can delete up to 4 units a turn and not only 2. Leftover points could be spent on more troops/anti-air.

The Phantom has superior durability, though. If the Phantom in this game had been a Revenant it would easily have died turn 1, that would have been a crippling amount of firepower for the Eldar army to lose before it could fire. The Revenants also exchange skyfire for more targets with the D, which isn't really worth it against this kind of army. The point saving is nice, but perhaps not enough to level both advantages.

Crazy game so far. It seems like the dice have definitely been against jy2, but they could certainly still swing the other way - even though he has lost a lot of units, the Phantom means points-wise a large proportion of his force is still intact (i think). However, with only 6 jetbikes left he will be hard-pressed to get the late objectives he needs unless the Phantom can pull something sectacular out of the bag - which, being the the most powerful titan escalation allows, it might just manage.

Arguing Phantom vs 2 Revenants in a vacuum is kinda ridiculous, since 3 Revenants are closer to the points value of the Phantom than 2. If you take double Revenants you got 700 points left over to buy AA with if you like, for example a Tau Firebase Support Cadre and a Commander. They'll obliterate a couple of flyers when they enter play. The Phantom has very few things going for it compared to 2500 points worth of Revenants (2,78 Revenants). One advantage might be that it won't die in a single turn so it gets to fire once. 3 Revenants won't die in a single turn either but you probably already knew that.

Damn that phantom is ridiculous! Did they not playtest these rules at all??

 Riddick40k wrote:
Damn that phantom is ridiculous! Did they not playtest these rules at all??

For 2500 points, it had better be powerful.

 Riddick40k wrote:
Damn that phantom is ridiculous! Did they not playtest these rules at all??

They were busy with beer and pretzel, no time for playtesting.

Naw wrote:

 Riddick40k wrote:
Damn that phantom is ridiculous! Did they not playtest these rules at all??

They were busy with beer and pretzel, no time for playtesting.

And thus the BRB was explained - the rules team were off their faces.

To be concluded a little later today.....

 jy2 wrote:


To be concluded a little later today.....

This will be close. Will has been playing a tight game here. Few errors. You could grab it at a pinch if the game continues but I currently predict cron victory.

XXXX

I predict a Necron win for sure unless the Phantom manages to strip a Night Scythe from the sky with it's AA Missiles and that's enough to majorly mess up Imhotek's plan. The titan absolutely must clear combat and claim an objective somehow, which won't be easy. It also needs to delete another couple of Necron troop units. That would make 6+D3 points for the Eldar versus 9 for the Necrons, minus one for the Necrons with the Warriors in CC with the Phantom being wiped out if they are for 6+D3 vs 8. The Eldar don't realistically have to worry about the Phantom giving more victory points because I don't think Imhotek has much left that can feasibly scratch AV13.

I think all three nightwings going down so early was the deciding factor, without the firepower and protection of the Night Scythes many more jetbikes would still be alive. Curious to see if the Phantom can pull a win out of the bag from here, suspecting the game ended turn 5 and jy2 is just teasing us.

Battle report completed.

 jy2 wrote:


Battle report completed.

Dang! That was an awesome game. Way to go Imotekh. I think that you were totally right jy2 when you explained the difference between the focus of a casual and competitive player. I was really surprised that you lost that game. I think that taking the Phantom was not a great idea if you Really wanted to win the game, but like it has been discussed in your report against Grant's Seer Council, this was a casual game, a game for fun. I think that the second turn I believe it was, was very brutal for you. My only question is that, if the Phantom was a scoring unit, why did you not let it sit on an objective? That would virtually eliminate the possibility of the objective being captured by your opponent, and it would have gotten you more points. It seems to me like the Phantom can protect itself pretty darn well (it better for that point cost ). I believe it was also mentioned above, but IMO taking two Revenants would have been a better idea (again if you were truly trying to win the game from the beginning). Then if William got control of one of them for a turn, you would still have the other. Also the Revenant is really fast, so it would have made it easier for you to shoot at all of his hiding models early on. I think that it was great that you were able to get your awesome Phantom on the table for a game, and I appreciate you sharing your experience with the community. Thanks again for a great report!

 Commander_Farsight wrote:

 jy2 wrote:


Battle report completed.

I believe it was also mentioned above, but IMO taking two Revenants would have been a better idea (again if you were truly trying to win the game from the beginning). Then if William got control of one of them for a turn, you would still have the other. Also the Revenant is really fast, so it would have made it easier for you to shoot at all of his hiding models early on.

If he took two revenants, I would make one shoot the other, or simply kill off the revenants before with the c'tans. Two revenants can be whipped by two c'tan protected by 9 void shields. It would have let him pack more AA though.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

 Commander_Farsight wrote:

 jy2 wrote:


Battle report completed.

I believe it was also mentioned above, but IMO taking two Revenants would have been a better idea (again if you were truly trying to win the game from the beginning). Then if William got control of one of them for a turn, you would still have the other. Also the Revenant is really fast, so it would have made it easier for you to shoot at all of his hiding models early on.

If he took two revenants, I would make one shoot the other, or simply kill off the revenants before with the c'tans. Two revenants can be whipped by two c'tan protected by 9 void shields. It would have let him pack more AA though.

Ah, your right. I still don't understand why the Phantom didn't sit on an objective. Was there a good chance that it would have gone down after both of the C'tans were out? I dont think so, but tell me if I am missing something

I find the "in depth" discussion on imaginary tactics hilarious. These games have degenerated to a form of Yahtzee. "I dump a ton of dice and things die.... My opponent dumps his half ton of dice and moar stuffs dies!" IDK, it's neat that their is an easy mode available for 40k when your on a whiskey bender, but I really don't see much depth in analyzing this stuff.

I may have to give this a try with my group

I find the "in depth" discussion on imaginary tactics hilarious. These games have degenerated to a form of Yahtzee. "I dump a ton of dice and things die.... My opponent dumps his half ton of dice and moar stuffs dies!" IDK, it's neat that their is an easy mode available for 40k when your on a whiskey bender, but I really don't see much depth in analyzing this stuff.

I suppose that this is the very reason why people play Escalation.

I myself prefer normal (non Escalation) games.
When it comes to diversity in tactics I'd wait for the nids and orkz codices.
This should repair our (or anyones) problem by bringing back Assault Phase back.