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So I frequently play against an Eldar player, and most often beat him. However, every time he loses he screams C:SM is extremely OP and says it's the only reason I win... He runs wave serpent spam, jetbike spam, fire prisms, dragons, a bunch of netlist WAAC gak. I usually use 2 TFCS/classic meched-up marines and a librarian (5th edition tactics). Somehow I stomp him, really not sure with all the S6 his army puts out. I've always felt Eldar are more killy, especially with the weird stuff they can use like Eldrad and Wraithknights and the like, but that's just me. I'm just curious as I usually do not get to play people other than this guy and a 'nid player.

Then he must be doing it wrong.
considering spess marhines are middle of the road most of the time.

by S6 are you talking about the wave serpent ?

 Desubot wrote:
Then he must be doing it wrong.
considering spess marhines are middle of the road most of the time.

by S6 are you talking about the wave serpent ?

I don't know, he just rolls a million dice and says they're S6 and I trust him. I think they're coming from cannons on his bikes or something.

tbh I feel your poll requires a neither are more powerful than the other.

I tip the balance towards the SM book tbh, I do so not only out of bias but because I truly believe that this is the most balanced codex we have ever had, it balances the fluff alongside the game and has enough shiny toys that good tactical players can utilise to take on all comers.

there are a lot of people out there that cite spam lists of bikes or pods or this or that.

but truth be told, if given the chance and built correctly, a space marine army that is tailored can easily take on any of the armies out there, and a take all comers list will give them all a run for their money.

yes, they don't have the instant hulk smash effect, but they don't need it, play them as they are, a surgical tool, they are not designed to be played like a mallet, that's what the IG are for.

 nutty_nutter wrote:
tbh I feel your poll requires a neither are more powerful than the other.

I tip the balance towards the SM book tbh, I do so not only out of bias but because I truly believe that this is the most balanced codex we have ever had, it balances the fluff alongside the game and has enough shiny toys that good tactical players can utilise to take on all comers.

there are a lot of people out there that cite spam lists of bikes or pods or this or that.

but truth be told, if given the chance and built correctly, a space marine army that is tailored can easily take on any of the armies out there, and a take all comers list will give them all a run for their money.

yes, they don't have the instant hulk smash effect, but they don't need it, play them as they are, a surgical tool, they are not designed to be played like a mallet, that's what the IG are for.

I'm really not sure how to tailor against Eldar, I usually play in a TAC mindset since playing nids and Eldar (again, my most common opponents) is so vastly different. I've never really given tailoring any thought to be honest, though I can see how marines are more of a tactical army than "hulk smash"

 nutty_nutter wrote:
tbh I feel your poll requires a neither are more powerful than the other.

I tip the balance towards the SM book tbh, I do so not only out of bias but because I truly believe that this is the most balanced codex we have ever had, it balances the fluff alongside the game and has enough shiny toys that good tactical players can utilise to take on all comers.

there are a lot of people out there that cite spam lists of bikes or pods or this or that.

but truth be told, if given the chance and built correctly, a space marine army that is tailored can easily take on any of the armies out there, and a take all comers list will give them all a run for their money.

yes, they don't have the instant hulk smash effect, but they don't need it, play them as they are, a surgical tool, they are not designed to be played like a mallet, that's what the IG are for.

This is absolutely false. The new SM codex has horrible internal balance, with a few auto-takes and a great deal of sub-standard junk. If you think the marines are even on the same city block as the Eldar, I've got some land to sell you down on the Mississippi delta.

Neither one is overpowered. I think the codexes are fairly balanced, personally. Player experience is going to count for more than anything, in the long run.

This thread made me laugh. I can't believe people actually voted for space marines when the other option was ELDAR.

Given the general consensus on the forums, neither could I, honestly.

He has to be doing something wrong. What do you mean by serpent spam? I have a player at my flg that runs six. That I think is serpent spam, sure five but he runs six. And a knight or two, depending on point limit. Six serpents, and they put things in me. Without asking. SM just can't do things like that. They seem to be really good at dying, that and running away. I'm a BA player don't hate, but they definitely on the shelf. It's not that I gave up on them, I have been wanting to start a new army anyway. And with all the new SM stuff I needed to buy to get current, what the hell.

If' he's losing games like that, with the units he's taking, to your marines who don't sound all that scary...it's him playing like a muppet.

The only thing not considered A+ in his list is Fire Dragons. Eldar do spam S6 really well, and their basic weapon kills marines in their droves. Wraithknitghts are strong against marines short of Grav guns, which it doesn't sound like you field (no Centurions?).

This sounds like user-error, and bad sportsmanship.

Since you have no option for "Neither" I chose not to vote.
I play both armies and neither is over powered. I have been winning with my Eldar more, but that is because the new codex added a lot of changes that takes people time to get used to.

Space Marines are ridiculously overpowered. All their bolters have this special ability that allows them to ignore the Eldar's armor on a 6, completely nullifying the most important thing you pay a premium for on an Eldar model!

MadEdric wrote:
Since you have no option for "Neither" I chose not to vote.
I play both armies and neither is over powered. I have been winning with my Eldar more, but that is because the new codex added a lot of changes that takes people time to get used to.

You disregard the possibility that other lists are *incapable* of getting used to the Eldar, making them way more OP. Which they are.

You should add another option which is marines just plain suck.

Shingen wrote:
You should add another option which is marines just plain suck.

No, only suck in comparison the good lists. They work fine against CSM, BA and Dark Angels. Nothing can suck in a vacuum. It always has to be in comparison to something. The worst NFL quarterback doesn't suck compared to high schoolers.

Does he play aggressively or does he play old 5th ed defensive style? I know a CSM player who runs tournament-style WAAC lists but he just plain plays them wrong and camps in a corner like you used to do in 5th, and he loses spectacularly.

It's a damned if you do/damned if you don't though because playing aggressively means getting into catapult range. I mean yeah, given that wave serpents are weak to *assault* you don't have much of a choice, but its not like it really helps an incredible amount.

Yeah, Space Marines don't suck. In fact they're arguably the most balanced 6th Edition army (similar to how 5E Marines was one of the better balanced armies).

The problem is that armies that are respectful to the meta always get crushed by broken armies that crash right through it.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Yeah, Space Marines don't suck. In fact they're arguably the most balanced 6th Edition army (similar to how 5E Marines was one of the better balanced armies).

The problem is that armies that are respectful to the meta always get crushed by broken armies that crash right through it.

Actually, the internal balance in C:Sm from both 5th and 6th is terrible. For example, the TFC is a no brainer. That's really bad internal balance. The external balance just happens to not be very good either.

Martel732 wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Yeah, Space Marines don't suck. In fact they're arguably the most balanced 6th Edition army (similar to how 5E Marines was one of the better balanced armies).

The problem is that armies that are respectful to the meta always get crushed by broken armies that crash right through it.

Actually, the internal balance in C:Sm from both 5th and 6th is terrible. For example, the TFC is a no brainer. That's really bad internal balance. The external balance just happens to not be very good either.

Now is the TFC a no brainer because of how the meta is or because all the rest of the options suck? Yes the TFC has good utility and kill potential, but could a squad of Devs with Missiles or Las be better against heavy tanks? Or even a Pred for armor support? The Whirlwind does have it's place too. Or the very obvious need for anti-air with Hunter/Stalker. There are so many options that I personally would really have to consider the options before using the TFC. And I'm a Guard player. We have a huge selection for heavy support.

If it's due to the meta, that's really not the codex's fault. And I believe that your bias is due to meta. You perceive that the utility and the multiple blasts is better in the current meta situation, rather than the strict anti-armor of Devs and Preds.

I don't agree that it is really bad internal balance.

No, I think the other options are just inferior due to mechanics like barrage sniping, etc.

Devs are a disaster in 6th.

AA is better served by the Stormtalon; it has more firepower and can attack ground/air equally well AND it's harder to kill in general.

The Whirlwind had a place before the TFC became barrage. Only losers like DA and BA use the whirlwind.

The SM codex has horrible internal balance. I was thinking it, and the casters over at 11th company agree, and they vindicated my thoughts.

I voted for Eldar just for 1 simple fact. Pure, clean plasma weapons. Both codexes are simular in ways, fluff aside. But it's how they come down to eliminating those armor saves that raises the casualty roof. For me, Plasma weapons are where it is at.

This guy just seems flat out wrong.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Yeah, Space Marines don't suck. In fact they're arguably the most balanced 6th Edition army (similar to how 5E Marines was one of the better balanced armies).

The problem is that armies that are respectful to the meta always get crushed by broken armies that crash right through it.

MEQ in general this edition are pretty meh.

Space Marines are just like GW. Hyped up to be the best around but just end up over priced and overall meh.

Ok, this is an interesting topic because at my lgs people lose to eldar 90% of time, one space wolves player beats them the other 10% cause he is good and runs no vehicles, maybe one drop pod.

At tournaments, I see eldar lists of all kinds even 6 wave serpent spams get their @$$ handed to them. I agree between sm and eldar eldar are more OP but sm can be played really well and be good, what I noticed out of games I played with space marines and then against space marines is that they are durable and it can look like you are losing and getting demolished it can turn out that your durability has allowed you to hold onto objectives and win off ofthe mission not who killed more.

Neither are OP.
eldar are just undercosted points wise for what they can do....

That's the definition of OP, chief.

Ok, your friend is a poor loser and you are being petty. Neither of you seem to understand what is happening in the other person's list (how on earth are you taking shots from an opponent and not knowing where they're coming from?!).

Ten seconds on google or any 40k blog would have answered this question, so clearly you're just being lazy or trying to troll your "friend".

Here's my advice. Trade codices and trade armies for a week (don't actually trade models, just use the other guy's on game day). You'll learn the other guy's dex, actually have a clue on the rules and stats involved, and will better understand how both forces interact.