Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Take insane amounts of autocannons as ig or any other army that has s7 ap4 double or more shot guns. I know ig can spam ac on thier troops, tanks, flyers?

U will rely on sheer volume of fire to chew thru zombies n drakes.

If i was csm n had to fight that list then i would cry since i could only take ac on helbrutes n havocs. Brutes get vector striked n havocs cant hide from baleflamers.

Pfft. Monobuild Farsight Enclave could wreck anything he brings so easily, and I don't even need more than 23 models.

Farsight
O'vesa
O'blotai
Torchstar

Riptide, HBC, Velocity Tracker

Riptide, HBC, Velocity Tracker

Riptide, HBC, Velocity Tracker

Crisis Suit x3
Dual Flamer

Crisis Suit x3
Dual Flamer

Skyray, BSF
Skyray, BSF
Skyray, BSF

2024 points.

two Jetbike Guideseers if you must.

Don;t understand why so many people feel that this guy needs to justify his list. He's not a GW games developer, and he's picked a legal list that he feels will give him the best chance to win the game.

If you're worried about not being able to beat him, then don't play him. Just because you think that 6 Heldrakes is cheese doesn't invalidate his legal list.

I find that it's mostly Space Marine players that get all hot and bothered by Heldrakes because they hate to see their invincible superhumans get toasted so easily, which is maybe why the people at your GW aren't having 'fun'. So yeah, take terminators. Daemons, flying circus?

 herpguy wrote:

Wow I can't imagine anything going wrong by intentionally pushing the population of voracious ants! *insert sarcasm*

Chickens.... lots of chickens !

Seriously though, Techsoldaten what do you want to play to beat that list? Nid FMC's are even easier to beat sadly.

Also Markerlights do cause grounding tests.

I would bring my AV13 necron parking lot list. He doesn't seem to have any anti tank outside of vector strike, which will only glance my vehicles on a 6.

The list is pretty much:
2 night scythes with 5 dudes
3 ghost arks filled with dudes
3 annihilation barges

I think I could get a 3rd scythe in there. Sometimes I bring a CCB, but it wouldn't do much vs this list. The tesseract ark could have some fun with its straight beam weapon. Gauss from the warriors would ignore the t-shirt, but they still get the FnP, no biggie. It will be 30 shots a turn in rapid fire range.

Daemons could be interesting to play against it. A GUO would be nearly untouchable. Some torrent soul grinders would feel right at home too. Again, vector strike would only glance on a 6, and soul grinders have skyfire, glancing on 5s. I doubt they would take down more than one or two though.

I probably wouldn't play him, just for how long it would take him to move every turn.

 gwarsh41 wrote:


I probably wouldn't play him, just for how long it would take him to move every turn.

In which case, all horde armies [foot Guard, Orks and Nids] should be banned.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 gwarsh41 wrote:


I probably wouldn't play him, just for how long it would take him to move every turn.

In which case, all horde armies [foot Guard, Orks and Nids] should be banned.

Horde armies can get their movement phase at that point level out of the way in less than 30 minutes. Dragging your movement phase on that long is suspicious. Like I aid, a 20k point Apocalypse game featuring close to 500 Gaunts finished its movement phase quicker than that.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 gwarsh41 wrote:


I probably wouldn't play him, just for how long it would take him to move every turn.

In which case, all horde armies [foot Guard, Orks and Nids] should be banned.

Horde armies can get their movement phase at that point level out of the way in less than 30 minutes. Dragging your movement phase on that long is suspicious. Like I aid, a 20k point Apocalypse game featuring close to 500 Gaunts finished its movement phase quicker than that.

Point I'm making is that the two reasons that have been given for not playing this guy, cheese and taking too long, are, in my opinion, invalid, He has a legal list, and has taken a 'horde' army, which takes time to move.

Seems as though the OP should retitle the thread 'How should I beat this dick that I don't like?" as he has made quite a few personal attacks on the guy.

one thing that might be worth considering is taking dark angels land raider spam with bolter banner

libby - 65
command squad (5 vets with bolters, banner of devastation) - 165

two squads to go into the raiders (tactical squads or deathwing knights - tacts can get the benefit of the banner, knights can be good at countering charges before they happen)

3 land raider crusaders (deathwing vehicle, multi-melta) - 290

each land raider puts out 24 twin-linked bolter shots a turn while in the banner bubble (and is projected from the hull) + an a TL AC & MM .... it will shred the zombies easily and the hell drakes wont be able to touch it.

ive run it at 1500 points and it works really well, you could even go DA primary and use belial and take the land raiders as dedicated transports (although it ups the cost) and take whirlwinds (terrain LOS'd from the helldrakes) for the HS for thinning out the zombies and at worst you lose a few 65 pt whirlwinds.

Tell Mr. Aspergers, just because you can do something, doesn't mean it's right. If your group would like to spend time over coming this list, out rule, out think him. Otherwise, tell this kid to pound sand.

So after i had some games with 2 drakes at 1750 pts( that guy will bring more...) and my list was as following(i play carcharodons) :
Tyberos the red wake
Captain with TH/Shield eternal, and artificer armor( to soak up wounds gor honorguard)
7x honorguard with chapter banner, power axes and champion with powersword
Troops:
7xRed brethren(tyberoswing assault terminators with LC, you can take one unit of them if you got tyberos) in a LRC
5x scout snipers
HEAVY SUPPORT: land raider redeemer
Fast attack
2x skyhammer stormtalons(included them because i forgot you can vectorstrike flyers...)
To do: take as MANY Landraiders as you can,he can't crack them open with vectorstrike, and as many 2+save units since flame and vectorstrike are both ap3, and for decent alpha strike, you can drop out captain and talons for nice 10 combi weapon armed sternguard which WILL hurt the enemy/,or atleast secure FB, hunter and stalker are also good options as well as an ADL, and when he kills these few units like 5 scouts and 10 vets, he will probably do VERY little damage to your honorguard and termies, and drakes will get sodomized one by one by an adl(you can also include captain withnotning. but artificer armor behind quadgun note: i am really a noob.but i managed to beat 2 drakes and ahriman/abbadon and loads of termies with this list

You can fit 4 Dakka Wave Serpents, 3 Crimson Hunters, 9 Scatter Laser War Walkers, and an Autarch in a 2000 point list. This would troll a 6 drake + zombie list so hard if not table it.

Hey guys - thank you for the messages. This is all helpful stuff.

@CDRAlbrecht - It's completely normal in our local meta to play larger games. There's not really an issue with playing up to 3500 points, most other people have armies of at least that size. I played 4,000 points myself over the weekend in a game with no superheavies or fortifications.

The real challenge for us has been how NOT to refuse to play That Guy, or anyone else for that matter. We have a pretty friendly FLGS. When I started this thread, other players had been stepping away from games against CSM armies, saying Chaos is too powerful. Before you stop laughing, That Guy had won about 10 games in a row before I first posted about his army. That and his antics at the table suddenly had a lot of people saying bad things about Chaos.

It's not the right way to think about 40k. I really don't like the idea of people not getting along, at the end of the day we're all there to play a game. The real threat is that we end up with a bunch of people with cheese lists, or people spend more time refusing to play other people, or we all just stop getting together to play. There's been some of all of those things specifically because of this list, and I don't really want to contribute to it be declaring someone Exterminatus. He's a pain, his list is a pain, but they are our pains.

@koooaei - You're right, there are a lot of counters versus Drakes. That specific build would probably clean up against That Guy's army.

What I am figuring out is that the problem is not that Heldrake armies are so good, but that it's not easy to put together an army just to fight them. People don't want to spend money just to beat this list or proxy half their army or coordinate with models from several other armies. Adding simple things like Icarus Quad Cannons hasn't really made a difference either.

If I am making it sound like this list is all powerful, sorry, that's not the point. This list is just very efficient against other TAC armies - it wipes out everything it can and ignores the rest. Most lists are constructed mostly of things that Drakes can destroy and Zombies can tarpit. I stopped paying close attention about a month ago, but he was 25 - 2 with this list last I heard.

I guess the more interesting question is what kinds of TAC lists could go up against a list like this at around 2500 points. Is there anything out there where people would not need to buy a whole new army or proxy one. We have a lot of Tau and Eldar players, followed by Space Marines / Tyranids / Necrons, and then some people with IG and Ork lists.

This would be a fun challenge with my Orks but not an overly hard one.
My list would probably consist of:
Warboss PK
Warboss PK
4 Manz in trukk
4 Manz in trukk
3 x 12 lootas in squaded Big Trakks
2 x 15 Burnas in Battle Wagons
3 x 19 Choppa boys in Battle Wagons
3 Dakka Jets

Cant do the points here but should be around 2500 and work quite well.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Run a Sang Guard Spam! You will butcher his zombies! Probably the only list I would competitively take The Sanguinor against (goina need those +1 attacks against a zombie horde).
Land raider redeemer/crusader spam.
Assault centurions with tl flamers and hurricanes will also do a number on them. Take 3 squads!
Serp spam with NOTHING outside the serps.
6 Annihilation barges with everything else in nightscythes.
Riptides.
Heavy MC spam.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(First 3 lists just ignore the drakes)

This list literally has 0 options that can crack AV 14. Just park 2 land raiders /w very cheap troops inside on Objectives and use the other 4 slots as Thunderfire Cannons. You could even go 6 x Mortis Contemptor Dreads if you're packing Forgeworld and absolutely wreck his anti air in seconds, and then spew all over his zombies in turn 2. Or now you can ally in an imperial knight.