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Well I'm glad others worked it out lol.

I was looking at it and thinking I've read it wrong.

But swarm. Doesn't make them beasts.
Entropic strike isn't wargear so it's the model.

So looking at it further.

Loose a scarab for los.

15pts vs stormraven 250ish..

My grade 3 maths certificate says I win

Barrage does ruin it a little. But los lol

So tau n tyranids don't use it against them

But everything else let's just say game over man game ovet

 quickfuze wrote:

I was referring to the firing of the heavy bolters which requires the occupation of a building. I probably should have said quad gun instead of ADL.

Except where said HB fire at BS 2 anyway, because of the automated fire special rule.

Scarabs are Beasts, and the BRB has nothing saying Beasts cannot occupy buildings. Swarms is the rule that gives additional wounds from template weapons, and again has nothing to stating it cannot hold buildings.

So I would say that even the bastion trick works, drawing line-of-sight out of the gun-holes while shooting the gun, as per the shooting from buildings rule.

C'tan are BS5 and can get Entropic Strike through one of their upgrades. Not sure on the wording of the power (it may say CC only) and I don't have my codex in front of me.

This is actually.... a very, very, very, very scary thought


Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2011/8/14/258275_md-Gold%2C%20Necrons%2C%20Warhammer%2040%2C000.JPG

I decree you have found Necron Gold!

It is CC only, I thought of that one already XD

According to what? Reference?
I dont have a book handy to check it out

 IHateNids wrote:
Scarabs are Beasts, and the BRB has nothing saying Beasts cannot occupy buildings. Swarms is the rule that gives additional wounds from template weapons, and again has nothing to stating it cannot hold buildings.

So I would say that even the bastion trick works, drawing line-of-sight out of the gun-holes while shooting the gun, as per the shooting from buildings rule.

Actually pg 93 BRB for occupying buildings specifically states that only one Infantry[i] unit plus any attached IC can occupy a building at any time. Beasts cannot occupy buildings...they can go to the battlements during deployment due to "exterior ladders" and such.

Before we get carried away... has anyone checked the faq? I don't have it handy.

 quickfuze wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:
Scarabs are Beasts, and the BRB has nothing saying Beasts cannot occupy buildings. Swarms is the rule that gives additional wounds from template weapons, and again has nothing to stating it cannot hold buildings.

So I would say that even the bastion trick works, drawing line-of-sight out of the gun-holes while shooting the gun, as per the shooting from buildings rule.

Actually pg 93 BRB for occupying buildings specifically states that only one Infantry unit plus any attached IC can occupy a building at any time. Beasts cannot occupy buildings...they can go to the battlements during deployment due to "exterior ladders" and such.

Ah, I missed that bit

I've looked through the rulebook and through the errata and found nothing that says otherwise. It's why I decided to bring it to dakkadakka

I think I kinda like the absurdity of the scarabs on an ADL with a quad gun....im not sure how good they would be on top of bastion or what-have-you....how many bases can you actually fit up there? and how can you draw line of sight with them off the roof? I could see using elevated terrain with an ADL, but what would you do on top of a building?

The bastion idea is going to draw too much fire. Easy todestroy. The adl is small and neat and to get to it your gonna have to go thru a whole army to get to it

ES: Any model that suffers one or more Unsaved Wounds from a weapon or model with this special rule.....

There is a difference between the model rules and the models shooting rules. Think fleshbane, or other abusive rules like Lelith. (pre-FaQ)

'Any model that suffers one or more unsaved Wounds from a weapon or model with this special rule immediately loses its armour save for the remainder of the battle (effectively altering its armour save to '-'). '

Reading it it does not say cc or shooting attacks. It refers to model.

'for each hit a vehicle suffers from a weapon or model with this special rule, roll a D6. For each result of 4+, it immediately loses 1 point of Armour value from all facings. if a vehicle is reduced to Armour 0 on any facing, it is immediately wrecked.

The rule does not specify so on that ground like all rules we take it at its most basic. Everything a scarab does is es

I've broken 40k *insert happy dance*

Okay here is another possible rules conflict. Under pg 105 of "Gun Emplacements" it states that a model in base contact with the gun "can fire it Instead[/u] of his own weapon". This could be read that a model must possess a shooting weapon in order to fire the quad gun. As you cant "fire" a CC weapon, he is not firing the quad gun instead of...lets say his claws; as he could not choose to shoot his claws if he wanted.

And you do not understand the difference between model and weapon. The Quad Gun would need to have the ES rule to affect the target.

Just like a model with Fleshbane, firing a quad gun does not wound on a 2+.

::Edit:: this should be in YMDC as well.

Fleshbane: models with this special rule always wound on 2+ in close combat. ranged weapons with this special rule also always wound on a 2+

Since it specifies close combat for models and quad is shooting its not applied

 ranged weapons with this special rule also always wound on a 2+

Since you are choosing to fire quad in place of the ranged weapon it's not applied.

Es does not specify cc or ranged so it's always applied.

Scarabs can run in shooting phase which means they can shoot.

 XdeadpoolX wrote:
Fleshbane: models with this special rule always wound on 2+ in close combat. ranged weapons with this special rule also always wound on a 2+

Since it specifies close combat for models and quad is shooting its not applied

 ranged weapons with this special rule also always wound on a 2+

Since you are choosing to fire quad in place of the ranged weapon it's not applied.

Es does not specify cc or ranged so it's always applied.

Scarabs can run in shooting phase which means they can shoot.

Exactly. Probably not RAI, but absolutely RAW.
If you want to discuss legality, take it to YMDC.

 XdeadpoolX wrote:
Fleshbane: models with this special rule always wound on 2+ in close combat. ranged weapons with this special rule also always wound on a 2+

Since it specifies close combat for models and quad is shooting its not applied

 ranged weapons with this special rule also always wound on a 2+

Since you are choosing to fire quad in place of the ranged weapon it's not applied.

Es does not specify cc or ranged so it's always applied.

Scarabs can run in shooting phase which means they can shoot.

The model is not causing the wound, the weapon is.

 XdeadpoolX wrote:
'Any model that suffers one or more unsaved Wounds from a weapon or model with this special rule immediately loses its armour save for the remainder of the battle (effectively altering its armour save to '-'). '

Reading it it does not say cc or shooting attacks. It refers to model.

'for each hit a vehicle suffers from a weapon or model with this special rule, roll a D6. For each result of 4+, it immediately loses 1 point of Armour value from all facings. if a vehicle is reduced to Armour 0 on any facing, it is immediately wrecked.

The rule does not specify so on that ground like all rules we take it at its most basic. Everything a scarab does is es

I've broken 40k *insert happy dance*

I wouldn't say that getting BS2 Entropic shots is broken. You're about as likely to pop a flyer without it, and while stripping down high AV in the field is helpful Necrons also have access to Gauss.

But it is an interesting tactic.

Both of you raise valid points. Im on the fence with that one now. Time for the court room methinks. "HELLO... MODS, MOOOOODS, CAN WE TAKE THIS THREAD TO YMDC PLEASE?"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Think they heard me?

I'll start one over there if no one has yet.

Well the punisher cannon trick isn't going to fly, as its an option for a vengeance battery or a firestorm redoubt, both of which have a rule stating their weapons cannot be manually fired and always use the automated firing mode.

 Solosam47 wrote:
What have you all done.....this is madness, madness!

Madness?

THIS. IS. MANDRAGORA!!!!!!!

*Imotekh kick to the chest*

 Galorian wrote:

 Solosam47 wrote:
What have you all done.....this is madness, madness!

Madness?

THIS. IS. MANDRAGORA!!!!!!!

*Imotekh kick to the chest*

Imotekh doesnt kick you in the chest, he cuts off your hand then sends you home embarrassed and with your pants on your head

Im not really sure about this...

I suggested earlier a slaanesh deamon prince with the whip range weapon. With the mark of slaanesh giving the model rending, the whip should have rending as well.
Bu the conclution at that time was that those rules only effects the melee attacks, and the range weapon has it own sets of rules.

Im sorry but I think you are pushing it too far here...

And to be honest I dont think it would be worth it either.

 Vombat wrote:
Im not really sure about this...

I suggested earlier a slaanesh deamon prince with the whip range weapon. With the mark of slaanesh giving the model rending, the whip should have rending as well.
Bu the conclution at that time was that those rules only effects the melee attacks, and the range weapon has it own sets of rules.

Im sorry but I think you are pushing it too far here...

And to be honest I dont think it would be worth it either.

I agree that its debateable as to whether it works. But I don't agree that it wouldn't be worth it.
Lets talk about two quad guns manned by scarabs shooting at a storm raven. Its gets between 2 to 3 hits. Lets say the 1st one hits two times. On average that is 1 av point stripped BEFORE pen rolls are made. You now have 2 st7 hits rolling to pen against av11. Second one shoots, lets be nice since we said two hit last time and say three hit this time, but to balance it out, lets say only 1 of the 3 hits strips an av point. Now you have three st7 rolls rolling to pen against av10.
Try buying anything else for under 300points that is as reliable against a stormraven before it even shoots, yet can still utterly destroy non flyers just as easily.

This idea is just so hilariously stupid and full of win that I have actually completely flip flopped my tourney list I'm gonna be using this weekend to include this silly combo because why not give the poor buggers some serious parmesan to chow down on while invalidating that DPs armour save or blowing up that land raider with a quad gun.

Scarabs are beasts. Beasts can't use the quad-gun. Or any emplaced weapons for that matter.