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Made in gb
Death-Dealing Dark Angels Devastator




U.K

does this who was the most evil primarch include the 2 lost ones? because im pretty sure those two would be pretty high up there considering theor brothers refuse to talk of them.

and also Omegon is the Evilist of them all for me. at first Alpha/Omega swapped to horus for the greater good but Omegon in deliverance lost is just a dick. he proved he was in it for himself. (not saying too much because of spoilers but those who have read it know what im talking about)


 
   
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Fresh-Faced New User





 Void__Dragon wrote:
Read Angel Exterminatus.


Done. What specifically in there are you referring to?

Nothing the emperor did pushed Perturabo to turn traitor, it was completely him
   
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Terminator with Assault Cannon






brisbane, australia

Its easier to do a list:
Horus- felt betrayed by the emperor/ abandoned. Was sad about the interex. Was under huge stress.
Gulliman- was girly man.
Lorgar- was a whiny bitch. And the most evil.
Dorn- was have anger issues.
Sanguineis- was a (little bit pompous)
Fulgrim ( NO NOT FULL CRUM AUTO CORRECT) - was (and I continue to believe) is, possessed.
Purturabo ( or whatever) - was like "yo, fack dis, I gotta gets me sum kaos.
Magnus- tryed to save horus, got pissed with russ because of Horus.
Russ- SPACE BEASTIALITY.
lion el Johnson- who cares.
Curse- a good guy/ night haunter- you are pain, mwoo ha ha.
Mortarion- liked Horus.
Alpharius- was want help.
Angron- was stiffled by the emperor taking him away from the battle..
Vulkan- all round good guy.
Manus- same as above.
Khan- same as above.

*Insert witty and/or interesting statement here* 
   
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Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant




Czech Republic

Its too generic question. Most of the primarchs did cruel, brutal things, diference is only justification. Of course, there are differencies. When Corax made hundreds of infamous clones it wasnt intentional. Still, he killed all of them. Was it mercy or murder? Is Konrad evil or just batfeth crazy and finding a little more stretched excuses than "for good of the Imperium"?

And of course, HH books tend to make characters very difficult to judge, because Konrad Curze is great example of tragic antihero transformed into plain villain by bad writing and inconsistency.

Being optimistic“s worthless if it means ignoring the suffering of this world. Worse than worthless. It“s bloody evil.
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Brigadier General





The new Sick Man of Europe

I nominate Fulgrim from what he did to become a Daemon.

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Horus- felt betrayed by the emperor/ abandoned. Was sad about the interex. Was under huge stress. and was manipulated immensly by Erebus
Gulliman- was girly man. He created the largest empire within the imperium had the most compliances and strove to make ultramar a haven
Lorgar- was a whiny bitch. And the most evil. But was he? yes he understood what the real gods wanted but he wasnt fully prepared to take the plunge it was only when he was pushed by Kor Phaeron and Erebus that he did
Dorn- was have anger issues. he was stubborn and impatient, not so much angry all of the primarchs were angry to some extent
Sanguineis- was a (little bit pompous) true but read angel exterminatus
Fulgrim - was (and I continue to believe) is, possessed. but even before his possesion he was arrogant and vain it was his own faults that meant he was able to kill his most beloved brother
Purturabo ( or whatever) - was like "yo, fack dis, I gotta gets me sum kaos. true he was willing to turn on the emperor or no apparent reason
Magnus- tryed to save horus, got pissed with russ because of Horus. he got pissed with russ because of russ. all magnus wanted to do was learn everything and warn the emperor but because of his ignorance he failed to see the bigger picture
Russ- SPACE BEASTIALITY. probably one of the true good guys he was misunderstood due to his unrelenting force when prosecuting his campaigns
lion el Johnson- who cares. a lot of people care, you cant just overlook someone who ignored his best friend/mentor and gave him the crap jobs. some would argue that his inability to understand people led him to have some of the most evil actions he turnt half his legion against himslef for christ sake
Curse- a good guy/ night haunter- you are pain, mwoo ha ha. the man is a straight up psychopath
Mortarion- liked Horus. so did most of the primarchs so why did mortarion really side?
Alpharius- was want help. Alpharius was fighting the greater battle (selflessly i might add) but Omegon had alterior motives (not going into it due to spoilers and such)
Angron- was stiffled by the emperor taking him away from the battle.. but he didnt really like horus did he? i see angron as an innocent soul he is too simple minded to realise what is going on around him and instead just consigned himself to bloodshed
Vulkan- all round good guy. considering he is all about "protecting the weak" id say he was a pretty good guy, didnt really do anything too drastic
Manus- same as above. yeah id agree with that although his stubborness got him killed in the end
Khan- same as above. the only crime Khan is guilty of is not having enough material written about him
Corax- i feel sorry for corax, true he was impatient (righly so) but all he wanted to do was rebuild his shattered legion and get revenge then omegon came in and buggered it up for him

so those are my comments


 
   
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander





Brisbane, Australia

I'll just throw out my ratings

Most Evil, least to most.

20. Vulkan.
19. Alphie
18. Magnus
17. Corvus
16. Jagga
15. Sanguin
14. Lorgar
13. XI.
12. Manny
11. Dorn
10. Angron
9. II
8. He's lion to you
7. Horus
6. Mortie
5. Fulgie
4. Rusk
3. Tarbo
2. Rowboat

Spoiler:
1. If you didn't guess it is...

Konrad Curze. Not because he's a jerk or a bad guy, but because he saved lorgar to make lorgar feel like a pussy.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/07 14:42:14


 
   
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Death-Dealing Dark Angels Devastator




U.K

Why? does 2 and 11 come into it?


 
   
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Usa

Logar strikes me as the most evil though after the heresy he doesn't show up very much which I find weird.
   
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The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer

 the shrouded lord wrote:
Its easier to do a list:
Horus- felt betrayed by the emperor/ abandoned. Was sad about the interex. Was under huge stress.
Gulliman- was girly man.
Lorgar- was a whiny bitch. And the most evil.
Dorn- was have anger issues.
Sanguineis- was a (little bit pompous)
Fulgrim ( NO NOT FULL CRUM AUTO CORRECT) - was (and I continue to believe) is, possessed.
Purturabo ( or whatever) - was like "yo, fack dis, I gotta gets me sum kaos.
Magnus- tryed to save horus, got pissed with russ because of Horus.
Russ- SPACE BEASTIALITY.
lion el Johnson- who cares.
Curse- a good guy/ night haunter- you are pain, mwoo ha ha.
Mortarion- liked Horus.
Alpharius- was want help.
Angron- was stiffled by the emperor taking him away from the battle..
Vulkan- all round good guy.
Manus- same as above.
Khan- same as above.


How was Guilliman 'girly' exactly?

If you don't like him, then say that. He does not strike me as particularly feminine.

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He liked building stuff instead of breaking it?

I object to the idea that being girly is evil, personally.



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I think Fulgrim, he tricked his brother into helping him so he could take all his power and kill him, for his own gain, as well as killing two of his other brothers.

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 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
 the shrouded lord wrote:
Its easier to do a list:
Horus- felt betrayed by the emperor/ abandoned. Was sad about the interex. Was under huge stress.
Gulliman- was girly man.
Lorgar- was a whiny bitch. And the most evil.
Dorn- was have anger issues.
Sanguineis- was a (little bit pompous)
Fulgrim ( NO NOT FULL CRUM AUTO CORRECT) - was (and I continue to believe) is, possessed.
Purturabo ( or whatever) - was like "yo, fack dis, I gotta gets me sum kaos.
Magnus- tryed to save horus, got pissed with russ because of Horus.
Russ- SPACE BEASTIALITY.
lion el Johnson- who cares.
Curse- a good guy/ night haunter- you are pain, mwoo ha ha.
Mortarion- liked Horus.
Alpharius- was want help.
Angron- was stiffled by the emperor taking him away from the battle..
Vulkan- all round good guy.
Manus- same as above.
Khan- same as above.


How was Guilliman 'girly' exactly?

If you don't like him, then say that. He does not strike me as particularly feminine.


Given that the Ultramarines are heavily based on the Roman Empire/Roman Republic, I can't see girly and Guilliman going together very well. If there is one thing a Roman Legionnaire isn't, it's 'girly' (being arguably some of the finest trained and disciplined troops in history, and having carved out one of the largest empires in history).

As you note, people don't have to like him, but then in many respects he's sort of the axiom made flesh, "Tactics wins battles, logistics wins wars." Which can make him seem less manly (although having read Caesar's Conquest of Gaul, Caesar was more of a man than any of the 'fighty' primarchs will ever be) because he isn't shoot first and then ask questions. Pyrrhic victories are stupid, and he actually understood this.

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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

People call him girly because he's an ass fighter for a Primarch and has a spotlessly clean legion of perfect pretty boys.

That's the conception.

Anyway, anyone who seriously would consider Guilliman higher than like... well any of the traitor primarchs sans Magnus needs to take a break from their philosophy classes.
   
Made in se
Glorious Lord of Chaos






The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer

 BlaxicanX wrote:
People call him girly because he's an ass fighter for a Primarch and has a spotlessly clean legion of perfect pretty boys.


I am offended. Bad people.

 BlaxicanX wrote:


Anyway, anyone who seriously would consider Guilliman higher than like... well any of the traitor primarchs sans Magnus needs to take a break from their philosophy classes.


Eh... Guilliman was Angron's direct opposite. Brains VS brawn, clean armour VS armour so bloody so the original colour isn't really discernable. Nothing wrong in that?

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Inside Yvraine

No, Angron was a complete psychopath who reveled in the suffering of others and hated everything, including his own legion. Guilliman was a relatively normal and balanced person who basically did what his commanding officer (the Emperor) asked of him to the best of his ability and nothing more.

On the scale of "evil", they aren't even close to being comparable unless you're willing to jump through all the philosophical logic-hoops, hence my statement.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/07 21:37:53


 
   
Made in se
Glorious Lord of Chaos






The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer

 BlaxicanX wrote:
No, Angron was a complete psychopath who reveled in the suffering of others and hated everything, including his own legion. Guilliman was a relatively normal and balanced person who basically did what his commanding officer (the Emperor) asked of him to the best of his ability and nothing more.

On the scale of "evil", they aren't even close to being comparable unless you're willing to jump through all the philosophical logic-hoops, hence my statement.


Hence why I said opposite. That is, that they were different in every way.

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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

Fair enough.
   
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Using Inks and Washes




St. George, Utah

 MrBlackledge wrote:
does this who was the most evil primarch include the 2 lost ones? because im pretty sure those two would be pretty high up there considering theor brothers refuse to talk of them.
We still don't know anything about them or their legions. There's unsubstantiated rumors that Leman Russ was sent to exterminate one of them for betraying the imperium, but it's still just rumors.

I personally like to think one of them is even now rolling around in the Black Library with his Eldar buddies. Fluff-wise, I think it'd make sense that not all Primarchs were flung to human-inhabited worlds. It'd make sense to me one of them could have been raised by another race and he refused to join the Emperor to conquer the galaxy in the name of mankind, having grown too fond of his surrogate race.

And we all know the 11th legion is the Ostrogoths.
   
Made in gb
Death-Dealing Dark Angels Devastator




U.K

SRSFACE wrote:
 MrBlackledge wrote:
does this who was the most evil primarch include the 2 lost ones? because im pretty sure those two would be pretty high up there considering theor brothers refuse to talk of them.
We still don't know anything about them or their legions. There's unsubstantiated rumors that Leman Russ was sent to exterminate one of them for betraying the imperium, but it's still just rumors.

I personally like to think one of them is even now rolling around in the Black Library with his Eldar buddies. Fluff-wise, I think it'd make sense that not all Primarchs were flung to human-inhabited worlds. It'd make sense to me one of them could have been raised by another race and he refused to join the Emperor to conquer the galaxy in the name of mankind, having grown too fond of his surrogate race.

And we all know the 11th legion is the Ostrogoths.


IIRC they are known as the "forgotten" and the "Purged" so one might have very well been involved with Xenos hence the purge one may have have been lost in he Warp hence the forgotten. one thing that is generally agreed about them is that the stragglers from the legions joined the UM's hence the numbers


 
   
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Regular Dakkanaut




"For evil to flourish, it only requires good men to do nothing."

I don't know who the most evil was, but the least, was Russ, when I think of the quote above. I don't even care for that one, at all. He's #3 of my most disliked primarchs, #1 being dorn, and #2 being Horus.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 MrBlackledge wrote:
one thing that is generally agreed about them is that the stragglers from the legions joined the UM's hence the numbers

This is not generally agree about them. It was a rumour said by a bitter Word Bearer. The author who wrote it (ADB) has stated that it was only ever intended as a spiteful rumour and was not true.
   
Made in au
Terminator with Assault Cannon






brisbane, australia

 MrBlackledge wrote:
Horus- felt betrayed by the emperor/ abandoned. Was sad about the interex. Was under huge stress. and was manipulated immensly by Erebus
Gulliman- was girly man. He created the largest empire within the imperium had the most compliances and strove to make ultramar a haven
Lorgar- was a whiny bitch. And the most evil. But was he? yes he understood what the real gods wanted but he wasnt fully prepared to take the plunge it was only when he was pushed by Kor Phaeron and Erebus that he did
Dorn- was have anger issues. he was stubborn and impatient, not so much angry all of the primarchs were angry to some extent
Sanguineis- was a (little bit pompous) true but read angel exterminatus
Fulgrim - was (and I continue to believe) is, possessed. but even before his possesion he was arrogant and vain it was his own faults that meant he was able to kill his most beloved brother
Purturabo ( or whatever) - was like "yo, fack dis, I gotta gets me sum kaos. true he was willing to turn on the emperor or no apparent reason
Magnus- tryed to save horus, got pissed with russ because of Horus. he got pissed with russ because of russ. all magnus wanted to do was learn everything and warn the emperor but because of his ignorance he failed to see the bigger picture
Russ- SPACE BEASTIALITY. probably one of the true good guys he was misunderstood due to his unrelenting force when prosecuting his campaigns
lion el Johnson- who cares. a lot of people care, you cant just overlook someone who ignored his best friend/mentor and gave him the crap jobs. some would argue that his inability to understand people led him to have some of the most evil actions he turnt half his legion against himslef for christ sake
Curse- a good guy/ night haunter- you are pain, mwoo ha ha. the man is a straight up psychopath
Mortarion- liked Horus. so did most of the primarchs so why did mortarion really side?
Alpharius- was want help. Alpharius was fighting the greater battle (selflessly i might add) but Omegon had alterior motives (not going into it due to spoilers and such)
Angron- was stiffled by the emperor taking him away from the battle.. but he didnt really like horus did he? i see angron as an innocent soul he is too simple minded to realise what is going on around him and instead just consigned himself to bloodshed
Vulkan- all round good guy. considering he is all about "protecting the weak" id say he was a pretty good guy, didnt really do anything too drastic
Manus- same as above. yeah id agree with that although his stubborness got him killed in the end
Khan- same as above. the only crime Khan is guilty of is not having enough material written about him
Corax- i feel sorry for corax, true he was impatient (righly so) but all he wanted to do was rebuild his shattered legion and get revenge then omegon came in and buggered it up for him

so those are my comments

Your exactly right.
TBH: I was posting at 3 am and couldn't remember what lion did.
I also forgot the existence of corax.
Oh, yeah, russ was awesome, I just don't like space wolves
And again, was half asleep.
Gulliman, I called girly man because everyone knows how steadfast gullimen was.

I still prefer to believe dorn is still alive as he is one of my favourite primarchs.
Hmmm, I didnt know that about omegon, thanks for the knowledge.
Mortarion was an ass, I just don't like him.

Erebus was the single most evil person in the entire setting of 40k.
Did he end up dying?

*Insert witty and/or interesting statement here* 
   
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Death-Dealing Dark Angels Devastator




U.K

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:
 MrBlackledge wrote:
one thing that is generally agreed about them is that the stragglers from the legions joined the UM's hence the numbers

This is not generally agree about them. It was a rumour said by a bitter Word Bearer. The author who wrote it (ADB) has stated that it was only ever intended as a spiteful rumour and was not true.


in that case i retract my statement


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 the shrouded lord wrote:
Hmmm, I didnt know that about omegon, thanks for the knowledge.


Read the books Legion and Deliverance Lost. honestly Deliverance lost is one o my Favourie books of the series so much so that im actually starting up an RG army

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/08 17:02:17



 
   
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Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne




Noctis Labyrinthus

Vulgar wrote:
"For evil to flourish, it only requires good men to do nothing."

I don't know who the most evil was, but the least, was Russ, when I think of the quote above. I don't even care for that one, at all. He's #3 of my most disliked primarchs, #1 being dorn, and #2 being Horus.


Leman Russ doing things actively drove probably the least malevolent of those who would become traitor Primarchs to joining Horus, though.

I mean, he's no Mortarion, but he's no Sanguinius either.
   
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 Void__Dragon wrote:
Vulgar wrote:
"For evil to flourish, it only requires good men to do nothing."

I don't know who the most evil was, but the least, was Russ, when I think of the quote above. I don't even care for that one, at all. He's #3 of my most disliked primarchs, #1 being dorn, and #2 being Horus.


Leman Russ doing things actively drove probably the least malevolent of those who would become traitor Primarchs to joining Horus, though.

I mean, he's no Mortarion, but he's no Sanguinius either.


Completely agreed. I still believe he is werewolf Dick Cheney. He believes what he does is right, as it fits into his own rigid, and simplistic structure. "Psykers bad unless wolf". He's all black and white, and he can't acknowledge anything outside of his own viewpoint, or the one who commands him. He's the hound, who attacks on command, even his own litter mates.
   
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I feel that people may be treating Perturabo a bit unfairly saying that he was "like yo, fack dis, I gotta gets me sum kaos. true he was willing to turn on the emperor or no apparent reason."

He was constantly forced to split up his forces/sons to garrison newly conquered worlds to the point that they were stereotyped to be the best at sieges and garrisons. I'm not surprised that after constantly digging trenches and whatnot, killing became a source of enjoyment, breaking the routine of digging and building and so on and so forth.

His brothers hardly ever acknowledged him and constantly used him (Russ and the Khan in merely calling him just the "comrade" when he had figured out the best way to avoid an Ork Warboss's defences, Fulgrim in Angel Exterminatus, and Horus I feel definitely manipulated him hence why Perturabo felt that his and his sons' safest course of action after the slaughter at Olympia was to side with Horus as he was certain Big Daddy E wasn't going to approve).

In short, It just seems like his fall away from the Emperor was years in the making with all the bitterness and resentment that had to have arisen. Makes as much sense to me as Luther giving the bird to Johnson.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/13 04:59:51


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Not nearly as aware of the whole story as much as I should be (which is very odd considering I've played for a while though mostly just warhammer fantasy). However of what little I knew about the horus heresy (I'd know more but for some reason the HH didn't interest me that much more than getting a basic idea of it) i felt pretty bad for magnus.

Magnus: "Hey let's help the emperor and warn of horus's betrayal!"

Horus: "Hey Leman Russ you have permission to kill that traitor from the emperor."

Leman Russ: "Sweet! I always hated that guy. Hur, dur, dur."

Didn't magnus go into the eye of terror because he had to so his legion could survive? Anyway this has made me hate Leman Russ quite a bit.

------------

So yeah I'd need to thoroughly read the HH to get a good understanding of who was really good and bad. Not sure if I care enough about the HH anymore to do that though.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/13 10:10:46


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Lion was petty about his plans and his style of doing things but the guy grew up in the wild, he has poor people skills.

Fulgrim was possessed.

Perturabo thought he had legitimate justification.

Khan was good pretty much.

Russ did evil things (Killing off 2 Legions and their Primarchs) but he was just doing his job and following orders. I'm sure he didn't relish the chore.

Dorn was good.

Kurze thought he had legit reasons but he was still pretty fethed up.

Sanguinius had a moment of possible selfishness by concealing the BA flaw but he did it to preserve the lives of his sons rather than his own.

Ferrus Manus was pretty good. Bit of a temper but when it came to it, he stayed loyal.

Angron was pretty fethed up but he had things in his head making him that way.

Guilliman...debate as you wish. Various opinions but generally "good."

Mortarion turned traitor to relieve the pain his sons were going through.

Magnus was forced into Chaos. He was quite happy in his tower with his books.

Horus was crazy and manipulated.

Lorgar thought he had legit reasons (shunned by father and brothers and punished for venerating the Emperor), but he sought to bring his father's great empire crashing down around them because he got a slap on the wrist and the dark gods told him to. He also is noted in Betrayer as "pulling the Thunderhawk out of the sky out of pure spite" after having thrown his mace into the hull.

Corax was generally a good guy, just impatient, ironically.

Vulkan was probably the most noble Primarch after Sanguinius. He was really humble and down to earth from what I know and this reflects his upbringing in a tight-knit community.

Alpharius/Omegon turned traitor to try and end Chaos for good.


Out of 18 only 2 can be considered evil. Kurze thought he was justified, but Lorgar was just being a spiteful t*rd.

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 Deadshot wrote:

Russ did evil things (Killing off 2 Legions and their Primarchs) but he was just doing his job and following orders. I'm sure he didn't relish the chore.


Only a coward utters the phrase "I was just following orders" to absolve oneself of the moral repercussions of one's actions.
   
 
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