Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I think Magnus appears to shape shift, but that's just in the minds of those that see him. He doesn't really change size. I assumed the same would be for the Emperor. Then again it is a minor point.

I still think the Primarchs knowing about their Brothers is one of the major things that needs to be clarified. Did they see them destroyed or did the Emperor just tell them so? There are too many hints at Legions being present at their destruction.


Who would have created the Primarchs originally then? What happened to the second Primarch?

 Medium of Death wrote:
There are too many hints at Legions being present at their destruction.

Destruction of the missing Primarchs or of their legions?

 Medium of Death wrote:
Who would have created the Primarchs originally then?

Or a better question, who could have done so?

 Medium of Death wrote:
What happened to the second Primarch?

He could have been killed by the Emperor.

what if we spin it on its head?

the big 4 created the Primarchs and the Emp stole them? raised them as his own this would explain Lorgar for a start and the conversation he had with whatsymajig on cadia.

If we said the Emperor did build the primarchs then think about each of them. they are all in some way a part of the emperor but greatly exaggerated. for example the Emperor was a jack of all trades but the primarchs were the masters of each individual one. this could go on then to explain what happened to 2 and 11 they may have had Traits that the emperor wished to remain hidden/unknown

 Manchu wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:
There are too many hints at Legions being present at their destruction.

Destruction of the missing Primarchs or of their legions?

I never really separate the two in my mind. It makes sense that their legions destruction could have been separate from the Primarchs destruction.

Who led the Thunder Warriors if the imposter Primarch is going to pretend to be the Emperor? How did a Primarch vanquish the Emperor without aid from the Chaos Gods?

How did a Primarch vanquish the Emperor without aid from the Chaos Gods?

maybe the emperor was a lot weaker than was said.

If the being known as the Emperor is a Primarch, he still could have created the Thunder Warriors. Again, what if the Primarch calling himself the Emperor simply woke up before the others? Maybe he cracked open one of the other stasis tubes to experiment, i.e., killed the other missing Primarch, and figured out from those experiments how to create Thunder Warriors, Custodes, and even Space Marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, perhaps the Void Dragon created the Primarchs.

he couldnt have cracked it open and killed the other because most of the Primarchs know of their missing brothers, some even remember spending time with them (bar alpharius/omegon). the current emperor might be a full on imposter created the 20 primarchs using warp power (as stated) and has the real emperor locked up in the palace or even locked inside the Astonomicon poweing it.

when you think about it this theory could actually take you anywhere

I always assumed a wizard did it.

 MrBlackledge wrote:
because most of the Primarchs know of their missing brothers, some even remember spending time with them

They know there were two others, they seem to know something bad happened to them that they don't talk about, but I don't think there is evidence they personally knew them.

i cant remeber who but im pretty sure that 2 primarch were actually talking abou their brother and one of the says "i remember when.." and gets cut off by the other saying "we swore an oath never to speak of them.

might have been Magnus not sure

Of course that sentence could have ended in any number of ways.

also very true, its nice to think that they had some interaction with each other, especially considering Horus was first to be found. it makes more sense that he would have met one of them as the Emperor traveled with the Luna wolves at the start of the crusade

 Manchu wrote:
Of course that sentence could have ended in any number of ways.

...this one time, at band camp...

Maybe the Emperor was actually killed by horus and one of the missing primarchs is sitting on the throne to keep up appearances?

It's true that no one has any idea how or where Horus was found.

It's sort of like Elvis. The emperor got better, then took a look at the mess around him and said 'screw it.' What's actually on the throne is a muppet he made from latex and old sacks. He's retired, and lives on Ultramar under the name 'Melman Pendleton.'

Of course I also have some silly theories.

I believe the Shaman thing is still Canon. Essentially, The Emperor made himself.

My favorite Emperor conspiracy theory is that the big shiny golden god-thing wasn't actually the Emperor at all, just a genetic construct that the Emperor could puppet psychically. In reality, the Emperor was Malcador the Sigilite the whole time. I dunno why I like that so much, I just do.

It's very simple- The Emperor was actually Alpharius all along.

 Jimsolo wrote:
My favorite Emperor conspiracy theory is that the big shiny golden god-thing wasn't actually the Emperor at all, just a genetic construct that the Emperor could puppet psychically. In reality, the Emperor was Malcador the Sigilite the whole time. I dunno why I like that so much, I just do.

Or that when The Emperor was interred in the Golden Throne he was actually dead and Malcador basically put his consciousness in there. So he's like the Emperor now.

The Primarchs I guess are nothing but 'loyal' lap dogs to keep their legions in check until the Imperial Webway is built and The Emperor can have mankind move on without the Ruinous Powers being involved. Lioving in Peace with no 'Gods', only pure logic. Once its all done, Primarchs and Space Marine's can go the way of the Thunder Warriors. (Who the Emperor also had killed off). Emperor was always anti being called a God or worshipped.

Magnus knows what happened to the missing ones and Leman Russ killed at least one, a majority of what remained of one of those lost legions went into the Ultramarine's.

Some of the Starchild stuff was changed to a Cult and the Inquisition purged it, but then again the Inquisition has had several Ordos that disappear, for no reason, one could question why the Ordo Chronos did, during their research into time travel did they discover something that would shatter the Imperium?

The Emperor actually never existed. In the early days, when Fantasy and 40K were both in the same universe, a couple of giant squirrels from the Old World got a hold of a Hat of Disguise, a suit of fancy armor, a big sword, and a ring of illusions.

The rest, as they say, is history.

I've only read the first ten posts or so, so if this has already been said then please forgive me...

So, I know who the Emperor is now - Dave Lister.

This is what happened.

The Primarchs were scattered throughout time and space. One of them was sent way back in time but not so far in space. This Primarch, like all the others, eventually rose to rule the world he ended up on. That world was Earth, the Primarch called himself the Emperor.

Then he decided to take over the rest of the galaxy and made twenty clones to help. One of them was himself. The Emperor made the Emperor, a Primarch made the Primarchs ad infinitum et cetera.

The alternative theory is that, as per the old Index Astartes article, the Emperor played no direct role in the creation of the Astartes; the organs were made by scientists under his command on Earth. The old RT background is actually the truth of how the Imperium got started. All the stuff about the Primarchs as ten foot tall demi-gods is legend and myth that has built up in the following ten thousand years.

Sooo, the older the background the more true it is. As an example, Leman Russ really was just an Imperial agent for the Adeptus Terra. He was born on Guranta D. He helped to set up a Chapter but he was just an ordinary man. The rest, as they say, is history.

 Gogsnik wrote:
I've only read the first ten posts or so, so if this has already been said then please forgive me...

So, I know who the Emperor is now - Dave Lister.

This is what happened.

The Primarchs were scattered throughout time and space. One of them was sent way back in time but not so far in space. This Primarch, like all the others, eventually rose to rule the world he ended up on. That world was Earth, the Primarch called himself the Emperor.

Then he decided to take over the rest of the galaxy and made twenty clones to help. One of them was himself. The Emperor made the Emperor, a Primarch made the Primarchs ad infinitum et cetera.

The alternative theory is that, as per the old Index Astartes article, the Emperor played no direct role in the creation of the Astartes; the organs were made by scientists under his command on Earth. The old RT background is actually the truth of how the Imperium got started. All the stuff about the Primarchs as ten foot tall demi-gods is legend and myth that has built up in the following ten thousand years.

Sooo, the older the background the more true it is. As an example, Leman Russ really was just an Imperial agent for the Adeptus Terra. He was born on Guranta D. He helped to set up a Chapter but he was just an ordinary man. The rest, as they say, is history.

As theories go, that is actually a pretty good one. Given that GW tells us the fluff is not necessarily 'right', it would make sense that the older it is the closer to the truth it is. Nearer to the time it 'happened' so to speak.

I always like the 'Orwellion 40K' idea, where most of what we are told, in as far as that is how the galaxy is viewed by humans in the Imperium, is all lies and propaganda.

I have an idea of using an extreme form of this for a story. Chaos, aliens, heretics, et cetera, none of them are real, at least, not in the way they are presented to us as gamers. The indoctrinated warrior fanatics of the Imperium, be they Astartes or Sororitas or whatever, they see ravening beasts and monsters, in reality they are just humans. The whole thing is set up to keep people in their place and even if we were to say there are some rebels, then they would be literally correct in calling the Emperor a corpse god - on the Golden Throne there is literally a dead body - a mummified corpse of some bloke who was 'the Emperor' but he died, and the High Lords deified him and carried on with business as usual.

The whole idea that a genetically and psychically superior human would have evolved through reincarnation whilst the rest of mankind was primitive is quite a stretch to be honest.

Evolution happens over time in leaps and bounds not backwards or in different orders to the rest of the species.

However if "The Emperor" did drag a Xeno to Mars. He would have used the "immerterium side step" featured in the recent HH book featuring Lorgar.

there is the first hand account of the emperor making the primarchs from the chaos guy who saw it, and who actually caused the accident that scattered the primarchs.

so Id say its pretty solid that E made the primarchs

I thought the image in the OP was a snapshot of the Emperor having this brilliant idea.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I thought the image in the OP was a snapshot of the Emperor having this brilliant idea.