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While I know this might also fall under house rules, I'd rather ask the lore masters this one.

With a fair amount of fluff and forgeworld stats to go off of, what do you guys expect RB's Heresy era stats to be (say at the Unremembered Empire conclusion, if you need a point in time)?

Probably very similar to Ferrus Manus in HH Book 2.

I doubt that his statline would be much different from any other primarch. Mostly sixes, in other words. Maybe WS and I at 7, W and A at 5, Ld at 10, of course.

He always struck me as the middle of the road primarch. He's no slouch in a fight, but not one of the meaner ones. While an excellent tactician/strategist/general, he's not the best at any of those.

His schtick is organization and logistics. How that relates to the table I'm not sure.

Roboute's main skills are in organising etc. He is probably not one of the stronger primarchs in combat.

So far he's been beaten up every time he's gone into a fight, so they'll probably make him crap, unless FW can grow some sympathy.

He held his own against Lorgar and Angron at the same time, fought a greater daemon in space, with no protection, killed Alpharius (Omegon?).
I'd say he's pretty adept in battle.

 Sir Samuel Buca wrote:
He held his own against Lorgar and Angron at the same time, fought a greater daemon in space, with no protection, killed Alpharius (Omegon?).
I'd say he's pretty adept in battle.

Not really, Lorgar smacked him upside the head and wasn't even concentrating on him fully, and Angron beat him into the dust right quick. Then there were the times that Kor Phaeron ass-blasted him and Guilliman only got away because of impromptu villain smarm, some Alpha Legion Marines almost taking him out and Kurze dealing with him handily. Of course we've got the inevitable conclusion of Fulgrim ventilating his throat.

I suspect Guilliman is going to basicly be the "Maranus Calagar" of Primarchs. he's not going to have the best stats of primarchs, but he's going to have a solid stat line. but his REAL advantage is gonna be the leadership buffs given to everything else

Or he's going to have some sort of army-wide SR that, due to his organizational skills/tactical planning, provides certain buffs, or perhaps he'll have a table of buffs and you choose one every turn.

He may be like an actual General, one who stays in the back with an eye on the larger picture of the war, not out in the front-lines leading the charge.

BrianDavion wrote:
I suspect Guilliman is going to basicly be the "Maranus Calagar" of Primarchs. he's not going to have the best stats of primarchs, but he's going to have a solid stat line. but his REAL advantage is gonna be the leadership buffs given to everything else

This is probably the case, yeah.

When he survived in Know No Fear I felt like they knew they couldn't let him die too early and they needed to write him out of that situation quick.

I suspect Girlyman is the mario of the WH40k primarch list....right in the middle. He's no runt but I couldn't see him going toe to toe with Sanguinius or Magnus

Just want to put it out there, Abnett said he was top 5, at worst, in HtH combat.

He's given as well as he got against Lorgar and Angron (who never does anything by halves), he got blind sided by a warp blast from an alpha, warp infused sorcerer who is powerful enough to live, literally, without a heart, and he gave Konrad better than he got.

I don't see him taking Horus or Sanguinius or clearly Angron (especially now) in a fight... but anyone else who isn't warp pumped by the chaos gods, he should be able to compete with.

 Psienesis wrote:
Or he's going to have some sort of army-wide SR that, due to his organizational skills/tactical planning, provides certain buffs, or perhaps he'll have a table of buffs and you choose one every turn.

He may be like an actual General, one who stays in the back with an eye on the larger picture of the war, not out in the front-lines leading the charge.

Hence my Calgar comparison.

Calgar is a solid fighter, but as a character in table top he also provides some tasty army wide buffs

If Guilliman does not have a God of War-equivalent ability, then that means Calgar is better than Guilliman at that... stuff.

Really, Calgar might be good and all, but I doubt he'd be better than Guilliman.

He'll almost assuredly have an "average" Primarch stat-line, which means that he'll beat the hell out of almost everything that isn't a Primarch with ease, and will compensate by having a plethora of special rules that make your army awesome.

The only characters I'm really worried about are Magnus and Alpharius. I forsee Alpharius sucking pretty hard and there being just not a whole lot we can do about it (most likely infiltrate, outflank and preferred enemy handed out like candy), while Magnus... has potential to not suck, but can also suffer the fate of Lorgar, whose pretty sub-par.

Being able to use almost all the BRB powers isn't enough. He needs Fateweaver-like abilities. Mass re-rolls, shenanigans like that.

Power I keep saying that I'd like for Alpharius:

"I am Alpharius": at the beginning of a turn, before movement, Alpharius may switch places with any character in his Legion.

Simple, fun as all get out, and makes a slightly sub par stat-line (which is what he should have) playable and very effective.

Alpharius' primary rule should be that, once per game, if he fails his saves and is hit by an attack that reduces him to zero wounds, immediately roll a D6 before removing him as a casualty. On a 3+, put Alpharius back into reserves and put the enemies warlord in his place on the table. The enemies' warlord is immediately hit by the attack that would have slain Alpharius.

Extra trolly.

RB would probably have a relatively average Primarch statline. However, he would probably have some very good equipment, and definitely very good army-buffing rules. I definitely see him having the same rule as Fulgrim allowing him to choose his warlord trait.

I see Guilliman having basically Lorgar's statline, better armor(basically Horus' with no psychic save), fists with bolters, and the ability to grant any one USR to 2-3 squads, no dups allowed. Also some reserves buffing. He should be one of, if not the, ultimate utility HQ with a primarch statline. Of course the primarch rule as well.

Perhaps to balance him, and/or reflect the fluff, give him a vulnerability to witchfire attacks- "Ignorance of the warp".

 Lobukia wrote:
Just want to put it out there, Abnett said he was top 5, at worst, in HtH combat.

He's given as well as he got against Lorgar and Angron (who never does anything by halves), he got blind sided by a warp blast from an alpha, warp infused sorcerer who is powerful enough to live, literally, without a heart, and he gave Konrad better than he got.

I don't see him taking Horus or Sanguinius or clearly Angron (especially now) in a fight... but anyone else who isn't warp pumped by the chaos gods, he should be able to compete with.

I don't see him taking a buffed Lorgar either.

40k stats:
Ws1 Bs1 S1 T1 W1 I1 A0 Ld0 Sv1+
Special rules:
The father:
All ultramarines on the same battlefield gain fearless, hatred and rage usrs to represent their fanatical defence of their primarch.
Immobile:
Guilliman cannot move in movement or assault phases
Stasis field:
Guilliman has a 1+ invulnerable save and has a 1+ Deny the Witch roll. His invulnerable save may be taken against rolls which deny other invulnerable saves, such as D weapons.
Swiss holiday:
If an opponents model makes it into base to base contact with Guilliman and is not engaged in combat with another unit at any point, they may elect to 'pull the plug' on the stasis field. Guillimans throat gushes with blood and he is removed as a casualty but not before whispering the line 'nevermore'. All Ultramarines decide to take their own lives in shame, although it cannot be determined whether this is because they let their primarch die or because their very own primarch uttered the most cringeworthy line ever as his dying breath. Ultramarine opponent automatically wins and Ultramarines may 'nevermore' be played at specific LGS.

Poly Ranger wrote:
40k stats:
Ws1 Bs1 S1 T1 W1 I1 A0 Ld0 Sv1+
Special rules:
The father:
All ultramarines on the same battlefield gain fearless, hatred and rage usrs to represent their fanatical defence of their primarch.
Immobile:
Guilliman cannot move in movement or assault phases
Stasis field:
Guilliman has a 1+ invulnerable save and has a 1+ Deny the Witch roll. His invulnerable save may be taken against rolls which deny other invulnerable saves, such as D weapons.
Swiss holiday:
If an opponents model makes it into base to base contact with Guilliman and is not engaged in combat with another unit at any point, they may elect to 'pull the plug' on the stasis field. Guillimans throat gushes with blood and he is removed as a casualty but not before whispering the line 'nevermore'. All Ultramarines decide to take their own lives in shame, although it cannot be determined whether this is because they let their primarch die or because their very own primarch uttered the most cringeworthy line ever as his dying breath. Ultramarine opponent automatically wins and Ultramarines may 'nevermore' be played at specific LGS.

100% would use

BS1?

So he can fire a Quad-Gun. Yay!

It is at -1 BS, sure, but it is so worth it.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
BS1?

So he can fire a Quad-Gun. Yay!

It is at -1 BS, sure, but it is so worth it.

Ahhhh you found a flaw in the oh so perfect rules :-p!

Poly Ranger wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
BS1?

So he can fire a Quad-Gun. Yay!

It is at -1 BS, sure, but it is so worth it.

Ahhhh you found a flaw in the oh so perfect rules :-p!

You mean aside from the fact that LD0 = instantly die?

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
BS1?

So he can fire a Quad-Gun. Yay!

It is at -1 BS, sure, but it is so worth it.

Ahhhh you found a flaw in the oh so perfect rules :-p!

You mean aside from the fact that LD0 = instantly die?

Oh... and that!

 Lobukia wrote:
Power I keep saying that I'd like for Alpharius:

"I am Alpharius": at the beginning of a turn, before movement, Alpharius may switch places with any character in his Legion.

Simple, fun as all get out, and makes a slightly sub par stat-line (which is what he should have) playable and very effective.

You should be able to switch places with any model on the table, or currently in reserves. In either army.

Poly Ranger wrote:
40k stats:
Ws1 Bs1 S1 T1 W1 I1 A0 Ld0 Sv1+
Special rules:
The father:
All ultramarines on the same battlefield gain fearless, hatred and rage usrs to represent their fanatical defence of their primarch.
Immobile:
Guilliman cannot move in movement or assault phases
Stasis field:
Guilliman has a 1+ invulnerable save and has a 1+ Deny the Witch roll. His invulnerable save may be taken against rolls which deny other invulnerable saves, such as D weapons.
Swiss holiday:
If an opponents model makes it into base to base contact with Guilliman and is not engaged in combat with another unit at any point, they may elect to 'pull the plug' on the stasis field. Guillimans throat gushes with blood and he is removed as a casualty but not before whispering the line 'nevermore'. All Ultramarines decide to take their own lives in shame, although it cannot be determined whether this is because they let their primarch die or because their very own primarch uttered the most cringeworthy line ever as his dying breath. Ultramarine opponent automatically wins and Ultramarines may 'nevermore' be played at specific LGS.

Lol I laughed when I read this.