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Hello everybody!
The Chaos Lord is a very important force multiplier to any CSM army. Not only do they do some FOC switching around, they are often a key offensive element. Here's my take on how to load out the ubiquitos Chaos Lord.

Note that there are TONS of useless options that you can pile on a Chaos Lord, and for convenience I won't even mention them.

General things:
VotLW: This is a near-mandatory upgrade. If you are taking a Daemon Weapon, you should ALWAYS take this. Those rerolls on the first turn can save your bacon if you roll a 1 for your daemon weapon.
You should always give your Lord an invul save by any means necessary. Unless you are taking Terminator armor (I will explain below) you should always take a Sigil of Corruption, or unless you are going for a cheapo build.
A gift of mutation is never a *bad* choice, but it is so unpredictable to the point where it should only be used if you have the points to spare.

First off, you need to be efficient when loading out a Chaos Lord. From my experience, a Chaos Lord should never hit 200 points. There are multiple upgrades that are counter-productive as far as efficiency goes.

Here are the main offenders :

Putting a SoC on a Terminator Lord
Giving a Terminator Lord a Daemon Weapon

The Terminator Lord

A Terminator Lord is paying a Cultist squad minus 10 points for terminator armor, and there's a reason it is more expensive than the Sorceror's Terminator armor. The reason being is that the cost of a power weapon is already factored in. Therefore, if you additionally throw on a Daemon weapon, you are basically throwing away the free cost of a power weapon (unless you plan on taking both for the extra attack, but that's pretty redundant).
Also, although it is tempting to give your Lord a 4++ for an extra Cultists squad minus 25 points, it is really not worth it (unless you are running a Tzeentch Lord, but in that case you're probably better off ditching the Termi armor).

If you are running a Terminator Lord, your best bet is to either keep him with a regular power weapon or give him the PF + LC combo.
Sample build: Nurgle Terminator Lord: PF + LC, VotLW' = A Thunderfire cannon + 52 points
Nurgle Terminator Lord: Power Axe/Maul, VotLW= A Thunderfire cannon + 25 points
These are both very cheap HQs that should dominate most things in CC.

The Cheapo Lord and the Power Armor Lord

Even though the Terminator Lord is pretty cheap already, you can build a budget Lord if all you are concerned with is doing some FOC changes, or just filling your mandatory HQ slot.

In this case, the Burning Brand of Scalathrax can be useful if you want your Lord to just sit back and cover your backfield.

If you plan on your Lord sitting back and avoiding the fight, you can probably get away with not giving him a SoC. However, I don't like using units who just sit there doing nothing, but it's your call.

If you want, you can also build a cheap Lord who acts as a Daemon weapon carrier. These are usually only useful in transports, or in a giant blob of cultists. In my opinon they are more effective than Terminator Lords, plus they can sweeping advance.

Sample builds: Nurgle Lord with Burning Brand and SoC = Thunderfire cannon + 35 points
Nurgle Lord with Burning Brand = Thunderfire cannon + 10 points
Khorne Lord with SoC, AoBF, VotLW = Thunderfire cannon + 35 points
Nurgle Lord with SoC, Black Mace, VotLW = Thunderfire cannon +45 points


The Biker/Steed Lord

These are by far the most fun Lords to run in my opinion. I have found that running them with spawn is always better than bikes, but that is an analysis for a different day.
I only really have experience with the Khorne and Nurgle builds, and will use those examples.

As far as the Khorne Lord is concerned, ALWAYS take the juggernaut instead of a bike! For an extra 15 points you are getting +1 attack, strength, and wounds over the bike option. Plus you are cavalry and therefore have fleet. It is a bargain IMO.
With an AoBF, this guy has 8-13 S7 AP2 attacks on the charge in addition to his S5 HoW. He can nuke almost anything on the charge.
Sample build: Khorne Lord with SoC, AoBF, VotLW, Juggernaut = Thunderfire cannon + 75 points

With a Nurgle Lord, I used to be torn between the PF + LC combo or The Black Mace. After testing them both, I can wholeheartedly say The Black Mace will always be the better choice (plus it looks a lot better modelwise).
Unfortunately the Palanquin of Nurgle is crap, so always take the bike. T6 is the biggest toughness threshold in the game, and helps A LOT.
Here is how I prefer to run him: Nurgle Lord with SoC, TBM, VotLW, Bike, blight grenades (helps a lot when running spawn, as giving a cover save within 8" is pure gravy when your spawn have no save) = Thunderfire cannon + 80 points


I obviously didn't cover everything, so feel free to give input!

I always play my Lord has a JuggerAxelord.

Axe, Jugger, Seal, Mutation, in a squadron of bikes, it always work like a little killy miracle.

there isn't a game where i wasn't satisfied by my lord, when you can dish out 13 S7 Ap 2 Attacks, even those pesky TH/SS termi squads have a rough day.

occured more then once, that once the lord had finished, the bikes din't have anything to strike left.

The only thing to make this perfecf would be if Bikers or Chosens could also rides Juggers...

Yeah I have to say my Juggerlord has never failed me. He is one of the few things that always succeeds in doing his job. My nurgle bikerlord and spawn are the only other units that accomplish this as well.
The bike vs spawn thing is always a constant debate. I personally prefer spawn, but bikes can do basically the same thing.

I can only hope for a supplement where we can have CSM ride juggers, but that would be too much of a dream come true...

However, I just use bloodcrusher models as my spawn escort.

Hatred does not allow you to re roll bonus melee attacks for a demon weapon. Although it does help when you get cut to ws1 by rolling 1. Terminator lords are my favorite but I take the axe and burning brand. Expensive but is cheaper and more durable than a demon prince and can still kill squads on his own .

Hatred makes you reroll attacks.

Deamon weapon Gives you extra attacks.

You reroll ALL your failed attacks.

I always liked the Chaos Lord and Jump Pack combo. Toss in a Murdersword and you can HOW right onto your target if you're lucky!

herpguy wrote:

A Terminator Lord is paying a Cultist squad minus 10 points for terminator armor, and there's a reason it is more expensive than the Sorceror's Terminator armor. The reason being is that the cost of a power weapon is already factored in.

But sorcerers come with a force weapon as standard, even when you give them terminator armour. A force weapon functions the same as a power weapon in terms of S & Ap.

I'm pretty sure hatred doesn't allow you to reroll number of attacks on a daemon weapon. Also blight grenades don't give cover. They're simply defensive grenades that don't allow an enemy to get bonus attacks for charging you.
All in all, the best go is usually a nurgle biker lord [lc+pf/mace] or khorne lord [aobf, juggernout] with spawns or bikers. Spawns are much more durable than bikers though. But bikers can go tank-hunting with meltas when needed. Though, generally spawn>bikers.

 somecallmeJack wrote:

herpguy wrote:

A Terminator Lord is paying a Cultist squad minus 10 points for terminator armor, and there's a reason it is more expensive than the Sorceror's Terminator armor. The reason being is that the cost of a power weapon is already factored in.

But sorcerers come with a force weapon as standard, even when you give them terminator armour. A force weapon functions the same as a power weapon in terms of S & Ap.

yes but this comes in their original selection of war gear, sorcerers get the armour at 25pts which is actually a power weapon cheaper than the lords armor because its in the original wargear so they don't double charge the for a force weapon. (how nice of them)

Ah, Im with you now, my bad.

Normally I just stick a power weapon on my Lord and hide him like a coward in the middle of a massive squad of cultists.


If he does decide to come out to play, standard Nurgle Biker Lord with PF + LC.

My favorite lord loadout:

Lord+Mark of xxxx

I just do it to unlock cult troops. Not even my champs can save him from challenges most of the time.

Lol I used to do these a lot. Unfortunately the hiding tactic gets old for me and doesn't work out too well.
At least he's really cheap at that point, and can man a quad gun very well.

At the moment I am running a khorne lord with terminator armour, gift of mutation and axe of blind fury.

Without a land raider, I am finding it hard to get him into the fray quickly enough.

I am considering dropping him and his termie buddies for a lord with either a jump pack or bike, plus burning brand and lightning claw.

He will likely swap his mark to slaanesh or nurgle as well as I want to include noise marines or plague marines eventually and not berzerkers.

My commander is a Terminator Lord with MoS, PF+LC, VotLW and Skull of Ker'ngar.

Terminator Armour is awesome, as 2+/5++ saves and the ability to Deep Strike are very useful. MoS gives him a nasty bonus to Initiative and renders my 30 Noise Marines troops choices. PF+LC combo allows him to fight with virtually any type of enemy. VotLW gives him a fairly nice bonus in the form of Hatred (Spess Mehreens), and is mandatory since I use the Black Legion supplement. Skull of Ker'ngar is expensive, but I play in a semi-competitive environment as opposed to netlist vs. netlist, and the EW+Adamantium Will bonuses are great and already have been paying off against TH/SS Deathwing Terminators and TMCs.

 somecallmeJack wrote:

But sorcerers come with a force weapon as standard, even when you give them terminator armour. A force weapon functions the same as a power weapon in terms of S & Ap.

Right, but the COST is already factored into the base Sorcerer, whereas terminator armor for Chaos Lords changes their loadout to have a power weapon rather than a simple CCW. Therefore, it's more expensive for the terminator upgrade.

In response to the OP wanting feedback:

Don't forget the Disc of Tzeentch changes unit type to Jetbike, and Jetbike grants +1 to toughness. It's not listed in the Disc of Tzeentch entry that you gain +1 toughness, because then it'd actually get you +2 as the +1 toughness is inherent with going from Character to Jetbike. I mean, it doesn't say in the Chaos Biker wargear entry that you gain +1 toughness, afterall. Just as you said always take a Juggernaut over a Bike for a Khorne Lord, always take a Disc of Tzeentch over a regular bike on a Tzeentch lord or sorcerer.

Always take Blight Grenades on Terminator Nurgle Lords. Why? It's the only way to get Grenades into a squad of Deep Striking terminators. Blight grenades count as both offensive and defensive grenades, too, so they are worth their extremely cheap 5 points cost on any Nurgle Lord regardless. Additionally, Nurgle Lords rocking a Power Fist/Lightning Claw combo benefit from Blight Grenades as well as it offers a shooting attack. Not much of one, but still a shooting attack either way.

If you're rocking the Black Legion Codex, the Palanquin of Nurgle gets a lot more attractive as an option because of the artefact that grants Eternal Warrior and Adamantium Will. T5/W5 is more attractive to me than T6/W3, personally. Not saying it replaces Nurgle Biker lords (you don't gain the heightened movement bikes give, after all) but it's just another option that's pretty cool. I find the Eternal Warrior is necessary so he doesn't die instantly to Orbital Bombardments and Vindicators and other S10 weaponry.

 koooaei wrote:
I'm pretty sure hatred doesn't allow you to reroll number of attacks on a daemon weapon. Also blight grenades don't give cover. They're simply defensive grenades that don't allow an enemy to get bonus attacks for charging you.
All in all, the best go is usually a nurgle biker lord [lc+pf/mace] or khorne lord [aobf, juggernout] with spawns or bikers. Spawns are much more durable than bikers though. But bikers can go tank-hunting with meltas when needed. Though, generally spawn>bikers.

Who said that it reroll the Attack dice?

I just said that Hate makes you reroll your attacks, even those given by the Deamon weapon.

 rohansoldier wrote:
At the moment I am running a khorne lord with terminator armour, gift of mutation and axe of blind fury.

Without a land raider, I am finding it hard to get him into the fray quickly enough.

I am considering dropping him and his termie buddies for a lord with either a jump pack or bike, plus burning brand and lightning claw.

He will likely swap his mark to slaanesh or nurgle as well as I want to include noise marines or plague marines eventually and not berzerkers.

Could use a Dreadclaw, cheaper then a LR, assault vehicle, frag launchers, can fit 5 Termies just like a regular LR.

There are a couple reasons for a khorne lord to take a bike:
1. you don't have a juggernaut model.
2. you want him to ride with a bike squad and want the unit to be able to turbo-boost.

There are a couple reasons for a khorne lord to ride with bikers:
1. you want +1 strength on the charge and re-rolling charge range thanks to icon of wrath.
2. you want the option to challenge with your biker champ.
3. a couple of melta guns may come in handy for popping transports.

 koooaei wrote:
I'm pretty sure hatred doesn't allow you to reroll number of attacks on a daemon weapon. Also blight grenades don't give cover. They're simply defensive grenades that don't allow an enemy to get bonus attacks for charging you.
All in all, the best go is usually a nurgle biker lord [lc+pf/mace] or khorne lord [aobf, juggernout] with spawns or bikers. Spawns are much more durable than bikers though. But bikers can go tank-hunting with meltas when needed. Though, generally spawn>bikers.

Defensive grenades give +1 cover within 8".

Don't forget the Disc of Tzeentch changes unit type to Jetbike, and Jetbike grants +1 to toughness. It's not listed in the Disc of Tzeentch entry that you gain +1 toughness, because then it'd actually get you +2 as the +1 toughness is inherent with going from Character to Jetbike. I mean, it doesn't say in the Chaos Biker wargear entry that you gain +1 toughness, afterall. Just as you said always take a Juggernaut over a Bike for a Khorne Lord, always take a Disc of Tzeentch over a regular bike on a Tzeentch lord or sorcerer.

Always take Blight Grenades on Terminator Nurgle Lords. Why? It's the only way to get Grenades into a squad of Deep Striking terminators. Blight grenades count as both offensive and defensive grenades, too, so they are worth their extremely cheap 5 points cost on any Nurgle Lord regardless. Additionally, Nurgle Lords rocking a Power Fist/Lightning Claw combo benefit from Blight Grenades as well as it offers a shooting attack. Not much of one, but still a shooting attack either way.

If you're rocking the Black Legion Codex, the Palanquin of Nurgle gets a lot more attractive as an option because of the artefact that grants Eternal Warrior and Adamantium Will. T5/W5 is more attractive to me than T6/W3, personally. Not saying it replaces Nurgle Biker lords (you don't gain the heightened movement bikes give, after all) but it's just another option that's pretty cool. I find the Eternal Warrior is necessary so he doesn't die instantly to Orbital Bombardments and Vindicators and other S10 weaponry.

Thanks for the breakdown. Yeah, the disc of Tzeentch should have the same principles as the Juggernaut: always take it instead of a bike. The 24" turbo boost can help a lot to deny an objective late game, or simply hide a warlord point if things aren't looking too good.
I didn't think of the fact that blight grenades give a Lord in Termi armor a shooting attack, that's a good point. Blight grenades are often overlooked, and I find them too good not to take for the points. I love that +1 cover with spawn when you're in the enemy lines.

I guess that is a way to make the palanquin work, but it really is a shame it doesn't offer +1 T (or there's no way to get a 2+ save). A palanquin lord is still less survivable to bolters than a biker lord. I could see delivering one in a land raider into the enemy lines with plague marines. At that point I don't know if I'd just take a sorceror though, as he would probably benefit more from +2 wounds.

My Chaos Lord is in Terminator armour with a power axe. I switch his mark depending on what I want to try out; usually I give him MoT for a 4++ which I like a lot for some reason. MoK is fun as hell though, especially if he joins a terminator squad with MoK and Icon of Wrath. The assault is wonderful to watch unfold.

I have this really cool kit-bashed Lord I converted awhile ago (before 6th Ed), but I never use him because he has a mace and the Black Mace on a unmounted Lord doesn't seem that effective. I've been thinking of trying him out in a small game and can't decide if I should go MoN or MoS. Either way, he'll have Sigil and a combi-weapon of some kind and be with 5 or 6 Chosen with special weapons. They will have to have the same mark as him obviously, so that also has me on the fence about which one. If I go with Mos I'll probably get the IoE, but It's very pricey. Is FnP that much better than T5? I'll probably take Huron too and infiltrate all of them.