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Hi all

Been a long time for me between games - couple of 6th ed games and I lost my mojo, fliers tabled me and my appetite for 40k dropped off.

Well its finally coming back a bit. However now marines have a new codex, these huge beasties called Centurians, weapons that fire gravity? Its all changed.

I have ordered a new codex off ebay however while its inbound could I please ask you all to dump on me the assembled learning about codex marines now?

Im going to play Ultras successor and Iron Hands.

Thanks in advance appreciate any help

Abit more specific and maybe I can help ??

brother marcus wrote:
Abit more specific and maybe I can help ??

agreed

Hmm, quick rundown:

Different chapter tactics for different chapters. Basically a lot of the special rules from the named characters got moved over to what color/chapter you are. So UM play different from IH, it's not just a fluff story and paint job any more.

My personal opinion on centurions is that they are unnecessary. The CC ones don't do anything assault termis can do. The shooty ones can pump out some damage, and might be worth using if you like the look, but are not required.

Grav guns are a lateral upgrade to plasma. They fill a similar role in the army, better in some cases, worse in others. The best place to field them is either the big ones on the cents (only place for those) or normal/combi gravs on bikes.

The other new thing is the AA tanks. They only have skyfire, so have trouble with non-flyer non-skimmer targets. But if you think about it, most xenos use skimmer tanks, and everyone has flyers these days, so you should have something to shoot at. If not, they don't cost that many points, so just snap shot at what you can.

There were lots of point reductions, some FOC shake ups, but the army still plays the way it did. More options, some fluctuation in what the strong builds are, but still marines. No new "must have" kit you need to buy to continue playing. But if you don't -want- to buy the new sternguard and vanguard kits, check your pulse; you might be dead. Those boxes are made out of pure awesome, cut with a little bit of sexy.

Thanks Nevelon that is great.

So I have all the old kit, TH and normal terms etc. will need to have a look through and play around with lists I guess.

What killed me last time was DE raider skimmers and fliers. Sounds like the sky fire tank might be good.

Are rhinos/razors still useful? Or is it all drop pods and storm ravens as the way forward? Storm talons any good?

How about heavy armour options?

Thanks

 Loricatus Aurora wrote:
Thanks Nevelon that is great.

So I have all the old kit, TH and normal terms etc. will need to have a look through and play around with lists I guess.

What killed me last time was DE raider skimmers and fliers. Sounds like the sky fire tank might be good.

Are rhinos/razors still useful? Or is it all drop pods and storm ravens as the way forward? Storm talons any good?

How about heavy armour options?

Thanks

I would REALLY recommend the Sternguard kit. Rhinos and Razors are ok, however I like Pods much better especially with Salamander Tactics. Iron Hands Chapter Tactics can make Razor Spam Viable. Stormravens are loved by some, others not so much. I tend to be on the side that thinks "Why a Stormraven when I can get two Stormtalons?". TriRaider is ok but I don't really like Armour EXCEPT for Iron Hands.

Some suggestions:

Gravity guns work best with bikes.

Drop pods are stylish and get you where you need to go quickly.

Dakka Dreads (TL:AC) seem to work the best if you field them.

Skimmers: 2 X MM and deep striking them in is scary.

The AA tank is good as you pointed out: can fire normally at skimmers.

Rhinos are the most useful, mainly for the weapons the guys in the tank have.

Storm Ravens work best as a flying Land Raider Crusader but not so much on the transport capability.

Iron Hands, Scars, and Ultra are the best in that order. BUT BT I like because you can field extra big or extra small squads and still get all the fancy weapons.

So, some ideas there for you I hope.

The #1 List is still Bikes for Codex: Space Marines. They got a lot better, and Grav Guns mesh naturally with them. The White Scars Chapter Tactics make them better than Ravenwing for a few points cheaper. (All you lose is the Teleport Homer). Even Khan is cheaper, and he gives your entire army Scout.

Raven Guard might be the best list for a Mechanized assault, as the scout + Stealth for the first turn could save a few tanks. I haven't play tested it, though, but getting those marines closer is always good. Though, White Scars with Khan make a decent argument, as Hit and Run lets you get the hell away from something you don't want to be in combat with.

Salamanders w/ Vulkan are still the best Drop List. Vehicle Flamers don't get a buff anymore, however, which is alright. Every character getting a master crafted weapon is nice, so if you decide against Vulkan, you can still master craft those Combi-Meltas on your Sergeants.

Chapter Tactics don't work with tanks. I've seen a lot of people forget that, so I figured I'd just repeat it. With the exception of the one Iron Hands one, no Vehicles can benefit from Chapter Tactics.

Forge World has a pretty strong list of Chapter Tactics - try using the Mantis Warrior one if you don't want to run the Ultramarine one. Gets you Prescience without having to pay for Tigurius.

Command Squads w/ 5 Melta Guns w/ a Pod cost the same as the Old suicide Sternguard drop did, and don't take an Elites Slot. Pretty good cost for 185pts, and if they manage to live they can drop another tank. (Or even run and hide for Linebreaker)

The Stalker is probably the better of the two tanks. Sure, the Hunter has Armourbane, but... 4 shots vs 1, or even 8 shots if you split fire. And if you have to snap fire anyways due to no skimmers/flyers, might as well, eh?

Honor Guard are not garbage anymore, and are a cheaper alternative to Terminators. Anything that's not in 2+ armor will get blended by them.

The Space Marine dataslates aren't really worth it.

Rhinos are still useful. I mean, it's a metal bawks to defend your shooting units from fire. Depends on how you build your army, as always.

Storm Talons are decent. No Vendetta or Night Scythe, but they are good air support for their cost. At the end of the day, 7 S6/7 AP4 shots isn't anything to really sneeze at in terms of potential damage output. Point them at Infantry, light flyers/tanks, or even some of the FMCs, and let them have their fun.

Heavy Armor options are pretty much the same. A tri-las Pred isn't prohibitively expensive anymore, and Vindicators got 10pts more expensive. Land Raiders are Land Raiders, except they can't take dozer blades. Watch out for that shrubbery.

And, if you buy a new tactical squad box, pick up a Sternguard Box. For no reason other than that the Sternguard box makes better sergeants. Replace all your sergeants with them.

EDIT: Oh, right. If you play Iron Hands, you get to play Hero Hammer, as IWND + a 6++ FNP is just the icing on the cake that is a CM with a TH, Shield Eternal, Bike, and Artificer Armor. Add Melta Bombs/Digital Weapons if you have extra points.

Oh, and TDA/Bikes let you move and shoot a Chapter Master's Orbital Bombardment now. (or any relentless/S&P)

So a CM on bike, with HG escort tooled up with grav and pw is great unit? That will need to be new models.

Stalker tank needed if I take raven and talon? Also have an AGL.

What goes in raven? Under slung dread too? Kit raven with mm? The talon is prob kitted with sky hammer missiles.

My natural play style is defensive, I prefer they come to me and I gun them down. So here is what I'm thinking, but no idea really pls correct me

Hq something like cm w lots gear. Maybe LC/th? Put on bike with grav HG escort.

Elites rifleman, ironclad and, th terms in raven
Talon

Tacs in bawks' I like tllc razors w hks as they can hurt, one full squad w LC tac squad inside

Snipers

Tfc
Vind
Pc devs

Heading right direction?

Sold my pods and they not my natural play style either so will lean dreamily on gunline.

Now pls hit me with how I make this concept list a lot better?

If you are going Ultra, you can attach Tiggy to dev cents and add in a tanking IC and it's a pretty mean unit.

 Nevelon wrote:
No new "must have" kit you need to buy to continue playing. But if you don't -want- to buy the new sternguard and vanguard kits, check your pulse; you might be dead. Those boxes are made out of pure awesome, cut with a little bit of sexy.

/agreed. I have one each new Sternguard and Vanguard kits. The amount of parts and cool models is silly. I have enough to make my captain, command squad, refit sgts, assault squads, etc. Great kits.

I am still torn on the centurions. I find them ....odd. I mean they just appeared. And I am not sold on the whole model. They sort of look okay but wrong at the same time. They look like the FW cataphract termies slightly, but IDK...just weird. Also I have 3 dev squads and now they pay the same price for heavies as tacts, so devs got better.

Thanks all

So what I'm leaning to is a meched up iron hands force now, mini tllc/hk razor spam, msu of tacs, with 2 tfc and all las pred plus fliers/AGL quad. Maybe one full squad with a th, two half squads, and motf with Servo harness. Perhaps ironclad and rifleman dreads too.

So thinking is fliers go for aerial supremacy, razors and pred hit hard targets/mcs, tfcs mince foot and give enhanced cover for my armour.

Workable? Night fighting will make life difficult for me given i need 2 rounds with those tfcs against massed inf. so was thinking for small units of tacs now adding heavy bolters.

Can I please get thoughts? If everyone finding ml with flakk the only way to go these days?

Also my counter assalt will be meh, ironclad and the full tac squad, motf, is this a crazy vulnerability to bring?

Thanks

Ironclads are fun in my experience, especially in a Drop Pod with dual HF in an Iron Hands list.

ML with Flakk are a huge points sink imo. They don't make up enough AA for their cost. One of the problems with Marines is that they're jack of all trades/master of none, so it is usually best to focus on one thing and do it well. All mech Iron Hands with a heavy focus on taking out your opponents scoring units is a good way to go. Once his scoring units are gone enemy fliers are mostly pointless!

With a list like you're thinking, I wouldn't worry too much about counter assault. You will want to be shooting as much as possible and as such you'll be trying to stay OUT of combat.

I play Tau/Marines and love the air spam at 2 k i usually run 3 Storm talons 1 Storm raven and 1 Tau Razorshark fighter and also have broadsides and an AegisDL that can shoot skyfire so my fliers can busy themselves with squishy ground targets the Storm talons ability to shoot at ground targets at BS5 is VERY nice and since the weapons are TL is basically like they have Preferred Enemy Ground targets

Ima go 2 tfc and pred bristling w lascannons for heavy support so leaning to 2 talons and agl as flier defence

Here is thoughts, skyhammers and tllc talons, quad on agl, sound solid?

Will be all IH now.


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Commissar what is your points split marines/Tau? Tks