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So it looks like GW has updated their Warrior's Code for what it's worth, allowing everything from FW including experimental rules

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3720191a_Warriors_Code_2014_V1.4.pdf

That oughta cause quite a buzz. I could care less, because I'm getting crushed no matter what I play against anyway

Experimental rules allowed... Glad I don't play at Warhammer World events.

 OverwatchCNC wrote:
Experimental rules allowed... Glad I don't play at Warhammer World events.

Yeah, the experimental rules thing is odd. Not sure why they included those. That said, overall it's a welcome change and removes the last vestige of people relying on GW event policies (not that they matter outside of Warhammer World one way or the other) for refusing FW stuff.

This just makes a stronger case for the TOs of events taking the reigns and making their own decisions based upon their player base. That is a policy I agree with and I believe it will eventually lead to a more diverse tournament scene.

 OverwatchCNC wrote:
This just makes a stronger case for the TOs of events taking the reigns and making their own decisions based upon their player base. That is a policy I agree with and I believe it will eventually lead to a more diverse tournament scene.

This.

MVBrandt wrote:

 OverwatchCNC wrote:
This just makes a stronger case for the TOs of events taking the reigns and making their own decisions based upon their player base. That is a policy I agree with and I believe it will eventually lead to a more diverse tournament scene.

This.

I listened to you, and several other TOs, on the FTN podcast where you were addressing this issue. It made me much more comfortable with the future of competitive 40k.

 OverwatchCNC wrote:
Experimental rules allowed... Glad I don't play at Warhammer World events.

FW is just another GW department. The teams that set up the stats for the GW units are the same as those who do to for FW (IMO).

A broader range of opponents and, I when I can afford them, some really cool additions to my DA seems like a good idea to me.

Seems like a reasonable move forward. Also, as noted elsewhere in this thread, TOs should now feel more comfortable with taking more control of their own events - allow/disallow FW, allow/disallow other extensions, or even come up with their own.

 OverwatchCNC wrote:
Glad I don't play at Warhammer World events.

As if there weren't enough reasons to be glad about that already?

Anyway, the only thing this changes is that people can no longer whine about how GW's own events ban FW rules as justification for their own bans. GW's own "tournaments" will still be irrelevant to the vast majority of players.

I welcome it. Means there may be more diversity than the typical cheesy torny lists.

I fail to see what is wrong with the experimental rules either. For the most part the rules never change between experimental and Book versions.

Good to hear this. This year will be a transition to openness to all the rules produced for 40k in the states. 2015 will see forgeworld most of the time at most events.
This year it pained me that forgeworld is still banned at the adepticon champs. I am going to take a horde of orks and see how many turns I can get in with 200 models.

 skkipper wrote:
Good to hear this. This year will be a transition to openness to all the rules produced for 40k in the states. 2015 will see forgeworld most of the time at most events.
This year it pained me that forgeworld is still banned at the adepticon champs. I am going to take a horde of orks and see how many turns I can get in with 200 models.

HAHAHAHA! I hope your joking right? Just because GW says this, does not mean GAK except at Warhammer World Events. TO's for events (like Adepticon) recognize that opening the flood gates is nothing more than a money grab and that no thought to balance is anywhere in their (GW) thought process. They (and we) as a community will continue to regulate and restrict units and rules to maintain a balanced foundation to the game.

 quickfuze wrote:

 skkipper wrote:
Good to hear this. This year will be a transition to openness to all the rules produced for 40k in the states. 2015 will see forgeworld most of the time at most events.
This year it pained me that forgeworld is still banned at the adepticon champs. I am going to take a horde of orks and see how many turns I can get in with 200 models.

HAHAHAHA! I hope your joking right? Just because GW says this, does not mean GAK except at Warhammer World Events. TO's for events (like Adepticon) recognize that opening the flood gates is nothing more than a money grab and that no thought to balance is anywhere in their (GW) thought process. They (and we) as a community will continue to regulate and restrict units and rules to maintain a balanced foundation to the game.

The big thing with this announcement is that it'll help level the playing field in terms of how things are viewed and reduce the double-standard applied. Lets be honest, no matter how busted something in a codex is, TO's weren't going to touch it (until the last few weeks at least), but anything with an FW stamp got the can largely just "because", and one of the excuses was that it wasn't "official" or that GW didn't allow it in their own tournaments. Well, that excuse has gone out the window, so now hopefully people will be able to use their FW stuff and maybe more Codex stuff will get looked at for a greater number of events.

Yeah because the game is totally balanced with just the codex's being used

 skkipper wrote:
Yeah because the game is totally balanced with just the codex's being used

Strawman response. Now all your going to see here is about how too expensive that FW units are and that "I should be allowed to play my converted XX as a ZZ (because I cant afford XX)". Putting the TO's in a terrible position. The fact they said that experimental rules are in play pretty much discredits their "Warriors Code" right from the get-go.

Strawman response my hairy bum. With no expansions, how can I Orks hang with guard, tau gun line and eldar jet star lists in a 3 game rtt?

The Strawman is there on cost since forgeworld items are similar cost to GW units.

The real reason experimental rules are allowed is because the models need to be sold at a faster pace. Nothing more, nothing less.

Rvarna Tau suit is far from balanced even by FW standards.. if you thought Riptides were bad.

Perhaps it's not quite *that* cynical, because, lets be real, if you bought a big awesome new model and were told you can't use it, it's certainly not going to contribute to your hobby experience. That said, you should know the rules are experimental and not ready for competitive play anyway.

I mean, if it were up to me, I wouldn't have allowed the experimental rules in either, but I can see where it's not necessarily purely a "sell more of these" thing, and GW isn't exactly in the business of Tournament rulesets

The R'varna pales in comparison to the Revenant titan.

Nothing in the forgeworld books is quite as broken as the ones in the escalation supplement...

I don't get what the big hoopla is about forge world, escalation, stronghold assault or anything else in 40k.

Ultimately, warhammer world and thier policies are not necessarily anything official to go off of.

If you are playing a pick up game then you should make sure your opponent is comfortable playing with FW or whatever.

If it is an event (RTT or GT) then they will have thier relevant policy regarding FW (and everything else).

All this need to have FW or anything else qualified as official or not is pretty meaningless in practice for the above reasons-players make a ruling on what is "official" in each and every game they play as do TOs. The BRB essentially encourages this- every game between players and every event run by a TO is its own narrative to forge.

Think of 40k as an apple jacks commercial, "we play what we like!"

At this point in time everything in 40k is a big rules experiment. The rules could not have been playtested in a rigorous manner if at all.

Anyway GW has conceded its leadership role for tournaments to anyone that wants to organize an event, large or small.

They obviously do not believe spending resources on tournaments is a good return on the investment.

I have no issue with the introduction of FW, escalation or SH and am a beleiver that if you know pre hand that these are included you can tailor your list accordingly.

My problem is that I have a ticket that was purchased in October for this coming weekend and the rule change means that my 'fluffy' balanced list is no uncompetitve against a lot of other options. I am not a power gamer and go to the GW tournaments because I like to enjoy 5 games over a weekend without having to worry about cheesey lists that are there just to roll dice.

I have spent best part of £500 on my White Scars (my blog http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/571324.page) and will be lucky to survive 2 turns agains things like Revenants on skysheild or macro cannons.

I own 2 titans and am picking up a thunderhawk this weekend and love to use them in big games but at 1500 points maybe they should have a different tournament.

At the very minimum they should only introduce the rules/allowances for events that are not yet on sale thus giving people the chance to make an informed desicion.

Rant over (for now, unless I come back from the weekend gloriously melting titans)

 Peregrine wrote:

 OverwatchCNC wrote:
Glad I don't play at Warhammer World events.

As if there weren't enough reasons to be glad about that already?

Anyway, the only thing this changes is that people can no longer whine about how GW's own events ban FW rules as justification for their own bans. GW's own "tournaments" will still be irrelevant to the vast majority of players.

Whats your objection to WW events? Have you been to any? I have and they have been well run, enjoyable events.

The addition of forge world probably wont hurt things because players at something like ToS dont tend to go for the most competative lists possible (which always leads to more interesting games). Escalation is bad because any army becomes less interesting when 500+ pts are spent on one unit wether you are "power gaming" or not.

EDIT: "The "Warrior's Code" is no code at all...It basically says do whatever the heck you want! Drub your opponents! It's "Sporting"! "

But what would happen if players were sporting and not out to "drub" their opponents? As unimaginable as that surely is, it might lead to fun.

The "Warrior's Code" is no code at all...It basically says do whatever the heck you want! Drub your opponents! It's "Sporting"!

When I last attended, you had to choose favourite opponents, and that was key in placing. You can use a titan, but I don't imagine you will make too many friends doing it, and that kind of limits what people are prepared to bring.

Three of us from Norwich are going this weekend with Haruspex Tyranids (me), RTB01 marines, and painting competition orientated Chaos Marines. I hope to get a couple of favourite opponent votes, and for my haruspexes to make it into combat at least once each day. They are old armorcast models, and I've been waiting years for them to have proper 40k rules!

 OverwatchCNC wrote:
This just makes a stronger case for the TOs of events taking the reigns and making their own decisions based upon their player base. That is a policy I agree with and I believe it will eventually lead to a more diverse tournament scene.

The only problem that can arise is if GW starts making books with all the bs in mind for their balance (or lack thereof). It depends on how much GW want to push this policy down our throats.

 torgoch wrote:


Three of us from Norwich are going this weekend with Haruspex Tyranids (me), RTB01 marines, and painting competition orientated Chaos Marines. I hope to get a couple of favourite opponent votes, and for my haruspexes to make it into combat at least once each day. They are old armorcast models, and I've been waiting years for them to have proper 40k rules!

I am hoping that most people are like you with this mindset. I am attending too with a White scars army http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/571324.page that is mainly bikes. I know of 2 people taking revenants and 1 ork stompa.

1 guy with revenant is taking a bastion to stand behind for 3+ cover. fast shot avatar on iccarus las. Greynight psy squad with quake in bastion to prevent deep strike coteaz with 3 servo skulls to avoid scouts and then 2 jetbike squads.

I will point blank refuse to play him if get drawn. A few of us were suggesting that if you come against something daft and enough of us ask the event staff we could swap games. Lets see how boring it is to have 5 games of LoW vs LoW for your £60 weekend.

I'll look out for your Haruspex'

Martin

 torgoch wrote:
When I last attended, you had to choose favourite opponents, and that was key in placing. You can use a titan, but I don't imagine you will make too many friends doing it, and that kind of limits what people are prepared to bring.

Three of us from Norwich are going this weekend with Haruspex Tyranids (me), RTB01 marines, and painting competition orientated Chaos Marines. I hope to get a couple of favourite opponent votes, and for my haruspexes to make it into combat at least once each day. They are old armorcast models, and I've been waiting years for them to have proper 40k rules!

It would be interesting to hear how that goes, as its the first event with all the new stuff included (I think?). Ill probably be going to one later in the year and want to know how many Titans to expect!

It would certainly be interesting to see how the event staff respond if confronted by mass requests to swap opponents!

The main issue for me is they don't apparently don't use the swiss system anymore. I don't mind one disporportionate match-up, but random pairings is potentially a problem...

Alex, they no longer use swiss pairing at ToS - at the start of day 2 in novembers event I was sat on 1 win, 1 draw and a loss. I was paired against a mass Warp Spider Eldar jet bike list who had tabled his first 3 opponents.

Do it for Norwich too! I have more faith in you succeeding than the football team!