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So I've decided to take the plunge into a horde army and I've decided to go with IG over nids and orcs. I decided to do this because as much as I want orks I don't want to deal with finecast and for nids from what I've read so far they got the prison shower treatment. And well... TANKS!! (I'll be picking up the codex after work today but I'd greatly appreciate any enlightenment or insight any of you have to offer)

I'm aware both IG and orks are updating this year but I'm very tired of playing Tau (currently my only army) so for the sake of change I'm getting started early.

My questions are...
what's the difference between the different IG forces?
Do they have special rules or is it just a looks thing?
Do Catachans have their own codex like they used to?
Can you do a full Catachan army or are they just a special squad you can take?
What are some pros and cons for each?

Right now I'm looking at Cadian, Elysian, and Death Korps leaning more towards Cadian or Elysian as I like their look.

Sorry for all the questions but I went in deep on Tau and now have many models that I don't use and would like to avoid that this time around.

Thank you in advance

Cadians, Catachans, Mordians, Tallarns, Valhallans Vostroyans, and Steel Legion are all under the same rules, in the IG codex. How you represent them is up to you, and there are options for fitting most of them fluff wise. Run chimera platoons for Steel Legion, Forward Sentries vets for Catachans, Foot-horde for Valallans ect.

DKOK have two sets of rules. A Siege Regiment list (focus on infantry and artillery) available as a PDF on the FW website, and an Assault Brigade focusing on vets and vehicles found in IA12: The Fall of Orpheus.

Elysians have rules in the latest edition of IA3: The Taros Campaign. They focus on a highly mobile elite force and specialise in fliers and Deep-strikers.

Hope that clears it up.

Also, IG are rumoured to be getting a new codex around March, so it might be worth waiting unless you can get the current one cheap or are going for one of the Forge World lists. It's highly unlikely any models they currently produce will be invalidated, so you could just start building up troopers early.

Thank you very much that helps a lot Paradigm. Yeah I heard march as well but and I thought about waiting but I'm getting really really bored of Tau. I've played almost every variation of them I can think of and I have the models for (which is just about everything) I need a change to keep it interesting and my usual opponent has a hard time with Tau (best he's been able to do is a draw once) so I'm looking for something else to keep it fun for him as well. I figured a blob army would be cool and even if he loses he still gets to enjoy me removing models by the handful .

Plus if that rumour holds up I want a head start on it so I'm not starting at 0 when the new codex drops

Is there more you can tell me about the Elysians?

You mentionned TANKS, Elysians don't have any tanks.

I've not seen the most recent Elysian rules, but from their last set and what I've read, here's what I know:

- They get Valks as dedicated transports on many different squads, and I think the newest version allows half come in on turn one. They are very good at rapid deployment and air superiority once you throw in some Vendettas.

- Unless it's changed, all their infantry can Deep-strike, essentially making vet squads Stormtroopers with worse armour but more special weapon slots. The trade-off for this is a lack of anything bigger than missile launchers in the Heavy Weapons department.

- They have no tanks, relying on aircraft (vulture and Vendetta) to do the heavy lifting. They are a bit more difficult to play because of this (you can't play a gunline and have to keep on the move). That said, if you want tanks you can always ally with codex IG or Armoured Battlegroup.

Brutal Viking wrote:
I decided to do this because as much as I want orks I don't want to deal with finecast

The vast majority of ork units you will want are either plastic or easily converted from plastic. Only warbosses, mega-armour and big gunz are real issues.

Big meks, painboys and flash gits can be made from plastic nobs. Tankbustas and kommandos are crap anyway, but if you really want them, you can easily make them from the plastic boys kit.

No tanks without allying huh? That makes me a saaaad panda :(. My group doesn't use allies. Is the trade off of flyers to tanks worth it I wonder. Are the vulture and vendetta as good as a few tanks?

I don't mind the different aspect of play since Tau is a lot of gunline even when that's not your plan . Even though they have a transport capacity Elysian is the only way to get flyers as transport for IG; correct?

As for the orks if I was going to have to do some converting for an ork warboss I think I would just make him as big as I think he should be lol but it's interesting that I could just customize nost of the guys I would want. What makes those ones specifically more difficult?

Brutal Viking wrote:
What makes those ones specifically more difficult?

Warboss is larger than any plastic ork (except the AoBR warboss), so you need to bulk up pretty much every part of a nob to make a model big enough.

Mega-armour requires building a whole suit of mega-armour over a figure.

Big guns mean you need to scratch-build the gun or do a serious conversion job on something else.

None of them are huge conversion projects, but they all need some degree of skill with plasticard and/or green stuff. Making a tankbusta or a kommando is literally just a case of selecting the right bits and glueing them together.

Brutal Viking wrote:
No tanks without allying huh? That makes me a saaaad panda :(. My group doesn't use allies. Is the trade off of flyers to tanks worth it I wonder. Are the vulture and vendetta as good as a few tanks?

It depends on your viewpoint, really. Having fliers for HS means that a lot of enemy AT weapons will be snap-firing at them, so they are a lot more survivable against a lot of things. The trade-off is that they are more confined movement-wise, and you really have to think a couple of turns ahead when bringing them on, due to their limited ability to turn. They are different, I'm not sure they're better, but it depends so much on your meta and the rest of your army.

Vultures will murder light tanks (AV11 or less) and the Dettas can blow holes in the bigger stuff, and you can also have deep-striking melta-vets to deal with AV13+

I don't mind the different aspect of play since Tau is a lot of gunline even when that's not your plan . Even though they have a transport capacity Elysian is the only way to get flyers as transport for IG; correct?

Not sure what you mean here. In the IG codex, you can embark a unit on a flier at deployment, but can't get them as dedicated transports. All that means is you are stuck using Fast Attack slots for them. So if you want fully airborne troops then go Elysians, if you'd rather have a few less fliers but tanks then go codex IG.

Of course, the easy answer to the 'tanks or fliers' debate if your group is dead-set against allies is to just use the same models with both codexes. One week you could run an IG force and use tanks, and then if you feel like more fliers, run elysians by just dropping the tanks for fliers. In the long run, there's nothing stopping you doing this.

The differences between the guard regiments are all cosmetic only. You dont HAVE to go horde with guard. I started with a horde guard and built my tanks in as I got them and now have a force where I can come to a tourney or a game saying that I am bringing guard and opponents just dont know what to expect. This makes you highly flexible.

Now, if you go forge world, they DO have a few different guard regiments with their own special rules. Now before unloading a butt ton of cash buying up their models in order to use those special regiment rules, it would be a GREAT idea to discuss it with your local gamers and TO. This is because while they are considered "legal" armies by most players, there are a LOT of gaming communities that do not accept FW rules. It may even be that while your local gamers dont mind laying them (I wouldnt mind at all), your local TO might not allow them in tournies. so before investing in that, I's suggest finding those things out.

Of course, rumor has it we have a new codex coming REAL soon, so it might be worth it to save up the cash and see what the new codex/models bring so you dont buy up a bunch of models now and have buyers remorse when you see a bunch of new stuff youd rather have or buy up a bunch of stuff that is made useless.

Regarding the Forge World stuff, there's a few more things to mention. First off, there's absulutely no requirement to use FW models for FW rules or GW models for GW rules. You can have an airborne Cadian regiment using Elysian rules if you fancy it, or a force using Elysian models with the IG codex. I really can't see anyone having an issue with this, and it does mean you can swap codexes with the same models should you come up against someone who's not happy with FW.

It's unlikely in my experience, but on the other hand, it's obvious there are some who don't like forge world for whatever reason. I imagine most casual gamers will have no issue so long as you are willing to make it clear, what's what. If anything, it's fear of the unknown that puts people off, so as long as you make it clear pre-game what and who you're using and what it does, you should alleviate any potential stress.

If you do decide to go down the Cadian route, model-wise, then there is plenty of stuff you could be buying even pre-codex if you want a head start. Nothing bar 1 special character and Rough Riders are useless in the codex as it is, and whatever changes, I fully expect everything to remain just as usable in some capacity. So in short, you'll need a Command Squad or Commissar, you'll need some infantry (platoons or vets) and a flier of either kind will be useful in both armies. So you can buy a fair bit pre-codex.

I like the model swap idea, I didn't even think of that.

What's the deal with kasrkins? The models look really cool but I don't see them in the codex. If they don't have rules I'm thinking maybe using them as my regular trools would look really good

Kasrkins have no rules, so it's up to you how you use them. Given they have Carapace Armour and Hotshot Lasguns, most people use them as Stormtroopers. Alternatively, if you just count the lasguns as normal ones, they make nice Grenadier vets.

Using them as regular troops would work if they were vets (both models and fluff) but I'm not sure on using them as platoon infantry. There's not enough poses to run them in hordes and the cost would be astronomical. A vet force made of Kasrkins would look epic, though.

Forge World also do some Hazardous Environment Cadian upgrade kits that match the Kasrkin nicely.

It's rumoured there will be a new Stormtrooper kit with the new codex, though, so it might be worth waiting to see if they look similar and might be cheaper.

Is there a thread I can read for all these rumours?

There hasn't been much since the Nids took centre stage around mid-December, but look in the News And Rumours section and go back a few weeks for something simply titled 'Imperial Guard rumours for 2014' . Everything is in the first post so you don't have to dig through.

Looking at the codex it looks like vets are a strait up 10 man team/ FOC slot; do they perform well enough on the table to sacrifice all the extra models you're not getting by going infantry platoon?

Vets vs Platoons is something that really, there is no answer for. Platoons are great for area coverage, target overload and objective holding, as well as getting more out of orders when you use combined squads. Vets get more special weapons per guy, so have far more concentrated and accurate firepower at the expense of durability.

My personal preferred setup to to take 2-3 good-sized platoons (30-40 guys) and then a couple of Vet squads. That way, you get a mix of cheap, disposable bodies you can throw into the meat grinder and the the more powerful and damaging squads hidden within the mass of bodies. But finding the sweet spot largely depends on what else you have in the list, as vets tend to do heavy lifting in foot lists, whereas in mech lists you've got a lot more Russes to take out heavy targets.

If you want a more detailed run-down of the various IG units then take a look at the link in the second line of my sig, it's an article I wrote that goes through every unit and weapon in the codex, as well as a couple of example lists and general tactical advice. You might find it helpful if you're new to IG. There's also a tactics article on the site that goes into the uses of vets more specifically, which may be of some use. Just use the 'tactics' tab at the top.

Thank you so much for the help man it's greatly appreciated

No problem.

If you have any more questions about IG, then post them or PM me and I'm happy to help. There are also a lot of good IG players that post over in Tactics so you might want to stick something up over there once you have a better idea where you want to go with the army.