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I'm on the fence about starting a new Army and was very curious about Tyranids. Please be honest with your opinions. I would like to hear directly from the new owners of the Codex.

There's two threads about the Tyranid codex a couple of threads down from this one.

The one with the haters spouting crap and the one that starts a discussion on page 80 before anyone knew what was even in the codex?

Yes.

I imagine that "the thread where people are talking crap about tyranids" is the thread that shows peoples' feelings on the codex.

What type of opinions do you expect to see from people in this thread, that are different from the opinions in those threads?

people keep waiting for someone to pull a diamond out of this. Its not there sure nids can be annoying but again without acces to +toughness and 1 creature with a 2+ armor save, not to mention not a single wound increase,

Where do you plan on finding it? In all the melee additions? Cool tail brah ill shoot you before you use it

My intent for asking is that I want to read legit reviews. I want to hear directly from the owners of the book not people who are criticizing it before it even went on sale.

Is it asking much?

Johnnytorrance wrote:
My intent for asking is that I want to read legit reviews. I want to hear directly from the owners of the book not people who are criticizing it before it even went on sale.

Is it asking much?

I agree with you, but people like me have seen direct quotes from the book now. There are too many units that got worse or didn't improve.

I still of the opinion that it is to early to tell. Right now anyone who says "This might work" gets drowen out by those who are unhappy not even looking at whatever positive thing is brought up.
Now I am a Marine Player mostly [the only one I dont play at this time is BT] and I see some things that worry me about fighting bugs.
The one Nid player in our group only has once compaint at the moment. We usaly play 2k games and was struggling to reach 2k and now I might be harder to reach 2k.

Johnnytorrance wrote:
My intent for asking is that I want to read legit reviews. I want to hear directly from the owners of the book not people who are criticizing it before it even went on sale.

Is it asking much?

Okay.

 streamdragon wrote:

Spoiler:

HQ Choices
Hive Tyrant: -5 PPM; +1BS; Loses BRB powers; lost 2+ armor save option; loses starting Lashwhip/Bonesword (this upgrade now costs 20 points I think)
SwarmLord: +5 PPM; +1BS; +1 Mastery Level -1 psychic power; Loses BRB Powers; no longer forces rerolls of successful ++ saves
Tervigon: +35 PPM; +1 I; -2 Powers; Loses BRB Powers; no longer shares AG/TS; kills larger area of gaunts; spawns gaunts no longer move or charge
Tyranid Prime: +45 PPM

Deathleaper: now HQ from Elites; -10 PPM; gain Infiltrate; Fleshhooks lose Rending
Old One Eye: now HQ from HS; -40 PPM; +1I

Elite Choices
Hive Guard: +5 PPM; -1BS
Lictor: -15 PPM; gain Infiltrate
Pyrovore: -5 PPM; +1W, I, A; No more Spores
Venomthrope: -10 PPM; Gains Shroud instead of default 5+c save; No more Spores
Zoanthrope: -10 PPM; Mastery Level 2; Loses BRB powers; No more Spores; Now Brotherhood of Psykers (not sure if this is a gain or loss, honestly; makes the whole unit very "all or nothing")

Troop Choices
Tyranid Warriors: +/- 0 PPM; No more Spores
Genestealers: +/- 0 PPM; No more Spores
--Broodlord: +/- 0 PPM; Single default power (positive or negative is up for debate I suppose)
Termagants: -1 PPM; can mix weapon types within a unit; No more Spores; cost of TS/AG increased
Hormagaunts: -1 PPM; No more Spores; STs no longer reroll 1s/misses; cost of TS/AG increased
Ripper Swarms: +3 PPM; No longer guaranteed self destruct out of Synapse

Fast Attack
Shrikes: +/- 0 PPM
Harpy: -25 PPM; +1W, A
Gargoyles: +/- 0 PPM
Sky Slasher Swarms: +3 PPM
Raveners: +/- 0 PPM; -1A base, but now get +1A from 2 sets of CCWs STs no longer reroll 1s/misses
Spore Mine Clusters: -5 PPM

Heavy Support
Carnifex: -40 PPM, +1I; -1A; No more Spores
Biovore: -5 PPM; +1W, I, A
Trygon: -10 PPM; -1A base, but now get +1A from 2 sets of CCWs; STs no longer reroll 1s/misses
Trygon Prime: -10 PPM; -1A base, but now get +1A from 2 sets of CCWs; STs no longer reroll 1s/misses
Mawloc: -30 PPM; better From Below rule
Tyranofex: -75! PPM; +1I

Biomorphs
-General-
Adrenal Glands: Grants Fleet along with Furious Charge
Toxin Sacs: No changes
Regeneration: Regain a wound on a 4+ instead of 6(I believe?)

-Melee-
Scything Talons: Grants extra attack with another CC biomorph; AP6 (lolz); No longer reroll 1s/misses
Rending Claws: Grants extra attack with another CC biomorph; AP5
Crushing Claws: Grants extra attack with another CC biomorph; No longer forces I1 for MCs; S+1; Armorbane; AP2 for non MCs; Lost D3 bonus attacks

-Ranged-
Devourer: No longer causes -1 to Ld


edit 1: Updated Swarmlord to +1ML, -1 power known
edit 2: Updated for lack of Spores
edit 3: Points adjustments and effects of some biomorphs.

Knock yourself out. The huge majority of changes from the 5th edition 'dex to the 6th edition codex, all verified by actual scanned images of the released codex.

does 2k fill up half a table of bugs? I guess they want peeps to buy those new $1000 one click collections.

 Anpu42 wrote:
I still of the opinion that it is to early to tell. Right now anyone who says "This might work" gets drowen out by those who are unhappy not even looking at whatever positive thing is brought up.
Now I am a Marine Player mostly [the only one I dont play at this time is BT] and I see some things that worry me about fighting bugs.
The one Nid player in our group only has once compaint at the moment. We usaly play 2k games and was struggling to reach 2k and now I might be harder to reach 2k.

I consider myself a top notch player. I have a solid record across 5 edition of 40k with every army I've played with, and have placed well in almost every tournament I've participated in. I've read every piece of 40k rules over the last 15 years and have the vast majority of it memorized. I've played tyranids since 1998.

I can't see how to make them work at the moment, but I have some hope that someone will come up with some cracked combo that will let them compete. Although, I have little hope of them standing against the current best, and they will likely be in the bottom third of the power "tier" (above orks, blood angels and sisters I suppose, but little else). The only reason I even have a shred of hope at the moment is because I honestly did not see the demons come out of left field with their crazy book+divination+screamstar combo, so I suppose there's remote chance I could be caught off-guard again, but if it does happen for nids....it's going to be something REALLY REALLY weird and completely off the wall, because all of the traditional and conventional tactics are largely dead.

I'm liking the haruspex regen for wounds quite a bit, IF it can get to combat. But we lost ymgarl and genestealers, and hive guard one of our most solid choices lost a bs point.. hmmm I guess gw wants tau and eldar to win forever.

Im not trolling i have the codex right here. The regen on any MC is usless because it still only has 4-6 wounds and a 3+ armor save.

It will be shot dead before it can regen


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The only thing i can come up with ATM is mawloc lictor auto locking a scatter, but still I have to roll both fro reserve.......

I was hoping the mc's had better armour saves so my grav guns could kill them easier lol

I picked up the new book for my brother today and we looked through the book and even did some toying around with the lists. It's still too early to give a final verdict, but my tentative judgement is this: The book has horrid internal balance, but is going to have a couple solid builds. All in all I think it might suffer from the Codex: Helldrake problem of having a ton of crap, but a few spammable gems. Again, this is all first-look speculation, but I think that the Tyranids might be able to stand up to Eldar with some effort. Tau, however, I think will likely have an easy time dealing with the bugs. Grav Gun biker spam will also be nasty against 'nids.

Here are a few quick thoughts on the new stuff (I'm not going to cover everything here, just a few things):

HQ
-Dakka Flyrants got a points reduction, clocking in at 230pts total for the critter and two brainleech devourers. They also got BS4 which will do wonders for all that shooting. However they (and all other psykers) lose access to the BRB powers, which is no fun. The other HQs don't seem like much special, though I haven't read Deathleaper's stuff, admittedly. Tervigons got nerfed hard...it was to be expected.

Troops
Termagants and Hormagaunts got dropped by a point. Scything Talons got hit with the nerfbat so I don't think Hormagants are worth it, but the point reduction helps when filling out your troops with Termagants. Warriors are still lacklustre, and Rippers...we don't talk about Rippers.

Elites
This used to be one of the best spots, but now it's rather...meh. Hive Guard were dropped to BS3 and got a 5pt/model increase...because why not? Venomthropes have an interesting effect, but since it's applied to models, rather than units, you have to bunch your stuff around the 'thropes...which might not always be good. Zoanthropes got 10pts cheaper and seem just as good (other than being restricted to Tyranid powers only) as they used to be--might be good for some extra synapse. The Haruspex has an underwhelming statline for a purely CC monster (WS3/A3? Really?) and it's not worth the points...which is a pity 'cause I think it's a cute lil' guy.

Fast Attack
Pretty much everything here seemed mediocre...but then I took a good look at the Hive Crone. The flying beastie gets 4 Haywire missiles, a S6/AP4 template, and S8 Vector Strike for a few points more than a bare LRBT. These guys could do a lot of damage to flyers/vehicles and, once they run out of big targets, can melt infantry if there's nothing better to do. Unfortunately they have a T5, W5 profile with a 4+ armour save...so they will go down fast. Still, I think multiple Crones in an army led by two Flyrants can create for a nasty situation in the skies. I *think* these guys are going to become auto-includes, but I also think that there's a good chance I'll be proven wrong.

Heavy Support
Trygons/Primes got a slight points decrease and I think the Primes are a decent choice for a reasonably durable synapse in a codex where the synapse creatures seem underwhelming, though a few zoanthropes might do a better job. I heard bad things about the Exocrine in the rumour discussions but I think this beastie is actually really solid. 6 S7/AP2 attacks or a single S7/AP2 Large Blast is impressive and when the critter stands still he's BS4--the 6-attack mode in particular strikes me as something which could seriously ruin somebody's day. Unfortunately the range of the thing is only 24", and the weapon gets much less effective if he's BS3 from moving around.

And then there's the Carnifex. The beautiful Carnifex. They got a 40 point reduction. Now a 'fex loaded out with 2 brainleech devourers is only 150pts--I think that's fairly reasonable for 12 twin-linked S6 shots. And you can take them in broods if you really love dakka (though diminishing returns is likely sure to kick in...). I think these guys have the potential to be devastating and help for saturating the board with targets.

Just my general, first thoughts. We'll see how things go in practice.

Regarding Venomthropes and shrouded, according to the rulebook, only a single model needs to have shrouded in order to bestow it to an entire unit.

So you only need to have one model in the Venomthrope's 6'' (iirc) bubble to give its whole unit the rule. Thus, you could reliably give at least two entire units the special rule with one single venomthrope.

Regarding the Crone, it's T5 AP4 armor is really, really ass. But I actually like its template weapon. The only problem with it is that it's not torrent, but unlike many people I prefer it to be AP4.

It's an inferior Heldrake, but the Heldrake is an abomination that never should have existed in its current form. A S6 Ap3 torrent turret-flamer on an AV12 flyer is stupid.

I did not know that about Shrouded, I'll have to consider Venomthropes again.

I don't think a single Crone is ever going to do anything. But if you're taking 2-3 and 2 Flyrants I think most enemies are going to start having a problem.

I just leafed through the Codex, and in my impression it's like the Chaos one: take the terrible, terrible previous book, make some random changes, take out whatever was passably decent before, add flyer and oval base monster, call it a day.

Cruddace or whoever must have scribbled this gak on his toilet break while working full time on the next Codex: Vendettas.

I don't know if it has what it takes to be a competitive book, but it looks like it can be a fun one in my opinion.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I don't know if it has what it takes to be a competitive book, but it looks like it can be a fun one in my opinion.

It's funny, the only positive review of the new Tyranids I've read was by someone who clearly has no idea what they're talking about.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It's an inferior Heldrake, but the Heldrake is an abomination that never should have existed in its current form. A S6 Ap3 torrent turret-flamer on an AV12 flyer is stupid.

Is it the turret part that makes it bad?

I dont know why you think the Crone is inferior to the hell drake AT ALL because the best thing about the hell drake is the str 7 Vector strike:

Which a crone does at str8!

3 Crones auto includes ability to fight flyers, flamer units, and vector strike another at str8.

My problem is with how easy it is to kill, Quad gun will gun down 1 per turn and Since the HT can no longer get IA its not like i want them in combat vs anything either.

The 150 fexs though sound very spammable especcialy since only 1 unit can come from a Trygons tunnel, 1 unit of 3 SEXY FEXY's

Summary of the new HQ's

- Hive Tyrants: Flying got cheaper. However, without iron arm, endurance, or leech life. these are easily dealt with. A foot slogging Tyrant is no longer an option as armoured shell is gone that would allow a 2+ save. And again no biomancy powers to help keep them from getting wrecked before they can get anywhere. The lash whip bone sword combo is less a wash because it used to cause opponents to be Initiative 1 but grants +3 initiative.

- Swarm Lord: more expensive and lost biomancy and the ability to make his opponent reroll their invulnerable saves. Again, with a 3+ armour save he would get wrecked before he got anywhere. Can no longer get eternal warrior in way, shape or form. With all of the insta-death wepons out there, he may not be viable anymore.

- Tyrant guard: being able to take bone sword/ lash whip now looks a bit appealing. However, you will need three of them to protect your Swarmie/Foot sloggin Tyrant and they will be saoking up fire. Hard to justify upgrading meat shields.

-Tervigon: Got pwned by the nerf bat. Points increase, no biomancy, no automatic catalyst (feel no pain), causes more damage to termagaunts, does not share biomorphs with gaunts, only gets one psychic power now, still only a 3+ save with no invulnerable save. Can only be taken as a troop now if a full 30 model termagaunt squad is taken

Tyranid Prime: increse in points. 3 wounds, T5, 4+ save. shares BS and WS with warriors. Not seeing him worth points cost.

Old one eye: Some cool rules and a tough model. However, you need all the synapse you can get with the new Instinctive behaviour rules and this guy does not provide it.

Needless to say I would rather play my old as dirt Ork Codex than this new Dex. Bye bye bugs time to go on the shelf until 7th edition.

Phostoukosmou wrote:

Tyranid Prime: increse in points. 3 wounds, T5, 4+ save. shares BS and WS with warriors. Not seeing him worth points cost.

Luckily, it retained the 3+ save. Guess that's why it is 56% more expensive than before !

Bloodynecronight wrote:
I dont know why you think the Crone is inferior to the hell drake AT ALL because the best thing about the hell drake is the str 7 Vector strike:

Yes, that's clearly the best thing about the Heldrake. It's not its survivability and certainly not its AP3 torrent flamer that can fire in any direction.

My first impression of the Tyranid codex is its much less 'competitive' than the last one for a few reasons.

Perhaps its an attempt at promoting taking Forgeworld units to make up for the weaknesses of the Codex.

Don't know if Tyranids have any forgeworld units worth using though.

Seems like a fun codex to be totally honest. It may not be as competitive as the Tau/Eldar/Overpowered Cheesedex. But nothing should be as powerful as those things anyway.

Bloodynecronight wrote:
I dont know why you think the Crone is inferior to the hell drake AT ALL because the best thing about the hell drake is the str 7 Vector strike:

Which a crone does at str8!

The best thing about Heldrakes is how durable they are, with 12/12/10 AV, 3 Hull Points, 5+ invuln and IWND they are one of the toughest Flyers in the game to take down. The second best thing is their AP 3 Schrödinger's Torrent Flamer, the third best thing is their their Vector Strike.

1. At T5 with a 4+ save, a Hive Crone is squished by 2 Quad Guns, it takes 5 to shoot down a Heldrake.
2. with AP 4 and lacking Torrent, the Drool Cannon is much worse than a Baleflamer
3. Yes, a Crone is better at Vector Striking

So if you think being very fragile, having a much worse template weapon, having to take grounding tests, being slower and having to deal with Instinctive Behaviour are worth +1 Strength to Vector Strikes and Tantaclids, sure, they're not inferior at all.

How many points more is the basic Heldrake than the basic Crone?

12 TL S6 shots for 150 points?! That sounds pretty awesome right there. I'd take two Carnifexs (carnifi?) for that at 300 points.
Toss in huge hordes of termagants, a couple flyrants, maybe a zoanthrope or two and a Hive Crone.