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Just bought the codex today and spent the day reading it. And trying to understand what GW's thought process was behind this codex, because I don't understand it.

Four of the psychic powers are garbage, one is decent, two are good. Limiting powers to just codex, and making you randomly role instead of picking. Terrible combination.

Weird increases in the cost of certain units, which often were not good or overpowered to begin with. . Increases in point cost of certain units while at the same time nerfing their abilities now making the units overpriced and underpowered, tervigon is the prime example but swarmlord got hit too.

Removal of traits (scything talons change being a huge one) for no apparent reason. Changing some traits making them not very game effective.

No change in force organization chart. This was a huge, utter shock. I actually spent 10 minutes after reading the codex going back through it looking for something I missed. I figured I had to have missed something.

Tail weapons not getting smash effect ...... why?

The hideous instinctive behavior tables. This actually seems worse then the Chaos warp table. For no reason.

So much hope for this new codex, so much disappointment. I might still buy one exocrine box, and maybe a harpy box. But I won't buy anything else.

Martel732 wrote:
Exocrines foot slogging are going to be massacred by any list that means business at range. Ie, the good lists.

In this case, maybe it's those "good" lists that are the problem.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I think Grey Knights are the preferred enemy for Exocrines (well, all MEQ really), because Grey Knights basically sit at 24''. They can't drop an Exocrine before it gets into range as easily as the xenos armies.

Jesus, if only we still had pods. Exocrine in a pod for some surprise assault6, S7AP2 butsecs would be fantastic.

I really wanted to be able to pod Tyrannofexes. Since they are either very short ranged shooters or ranged tank killers having an option to deep strike them would have been perfect.

 xttz wrote:

 lucasbuffalo wrote:

2. Mawloc also can't burrow until the 2nd turn if you start with him on-board, and you have to roll for him from reserves, he doesn't auto-return.
3. He also hits vehicles on side instead of rear armor like he used to making him much worse again.

It does auto-return, after burrowing the Mawloc enters Ongoing Reserves. That's why Burrow can't be used on turn 1, as it would allow you to skip the roll for reserves.

They also added Ignores Cover to the attack, which is arguable more useful than hitting rear armour.

Missed that on the "Ongoing", however this was possible for last book, so is a nerf still.
I agree, ignore cover is awesome and makes way more sense, but Mawloc is now basically a troop killer instead of a vehicle parking lot killer, which means that without him being as effective and without Ymgarls I have no clue how on earth Tyranids are going to deal with back-line IG tanks.

If Forgeworld is smart, they are going to make a mycetic pod resin model and put its rules in the next IA 4 as 40k approved.

 lucasbuffalo wrote:
without Ymgarls I have no clue how on earth Tyranids are going to deal with back-line IG tanks.

Flyrants are the best option, they can be in charge range on turn 2, as well as putting lots of S6 fire into side/rear armour when the opportunity arises. Crones can also Vector Strike them. Don't forget Onslaught; it can help a FMC move up to 36" and shoot in the same turn.

Failing that, Lictors/Deathleaper are a possibility. With their decent strength, Stealth and Rending they could be the new Ymgarls.

SWORDFISH!

Rumbleguts wrote:
Tail weapons not getting smash effect ...... why?

Because it'd be too powerful, obviously.

Besides, Tyranids already got a bunch of points reductions on heaps of units. What more do 'Nid players want? An auto-'I Win' Codex that all the WAAC players can high-five one another over.

I mean they've got the awesome long-ranged Exocrine that can just bombard units to pieces, the Harpy and Crone that really give the Hellturkey a run for its money (the Crone more than the Harpy, if I'm honest), a great set of really useful psychic powers (like Onslaught – what other army can do anything like Onslaught?), the Haruspex can just monster vehicles and infantry alike, the new bio-artefacts give players heaps of really cool options (like the amazingly versatile Ymgarl Factor), and the Venomthrope can shroud most of your army meaning that enemy shooting is toast, giving plenty of time for your Genestealers and Warriors to get into combat. Sure, some units did go up in price – Prime, Tervigons, Hive Guard – but those were crutch units that power-gamers relied on to win games, so now they’re just paying what they’re worth rather than getting ‘el cheapo super-creatures.

Tyranids are awesome now!


*shudders*

Sorry. I had to get that out of my system. For the record, everything in the above few paragraphs is utter nonsense. This new book is fething awful.

 Tyran wrote:
If Forgeworld is smart, they are going to make a mycetic pod resin model and put its rules in the next IA 4 as 40k approved.

I've been thinking that as well. I can see it happening. Maybe not in a reprint IA4, but in a supplement eventually yes.

Hoping for a supplement to fix the codex is a double edged sword though, esp the ones ive seen saying maybe theyll re add what they took out.

Are we glad they fixed it or mad they deliberately sold us crap for a codex so they could then sell us a fix, which they would be likely to repeat in future.

Calm down H.B.M.C. Just because Tyranids don't have some one-click-win 2++ rerolling save deathstar doesn't mean it's a bad codex.

We got a one point reduction for our 'gaunts! 5 point reductions across the board for our monsterous creatures! The possibilities for strong lists are flowing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just noticed that the Ymgarl Factor only ever works in the assault phase, meaning you can't ever use the 2+ armour save against shooting attacks.

Yup. All the effects only work in the assault phase.

Rumbleguts wrote:
No change in force organization chart. This was a huge, utter shock. I actually spent 10 minutes after reading the codex going back through it looking for something I missed. I figured I had to have missed something.

This is the biggest disappointment for me really. Not even the effort to do this. Old One Eye would be cool making Carnifexes troops. Or being able to join a brood like a Tyrant joins a guard. That would be neat.

Flyrants should have made Garoyles Troops. Sure, Nids would be monobuild again, but at least then we'd have decent troops :(

Am going to be shot for saying that the codex isn't "that bad"
It's got a gak load of problems
THEY KILLED MY fething PARASITE OF MORTREX.
But aside from this, we can now fit nine carnifexes and 30 gaunts and a hive tyrant + 2 tyrant guard into 1500 point list.
Marine player: ok here's my army, a few tac squads, a dev squard, and 2 preds, oh and a storm raven.
'nids player: here's mine.
*places nine carnifexes on the field*

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
If Forgeworld is smart, they are going to make a mycetic pod resin model and put its rules in the next IA 4 as 40k approved.

I've been thinking that as well. I can see it happening. Maybe not in a reprint IA4, but in a supplement eventually yes.

I said IA4 because I believe it is the next IA to be updated.

 xttz wrote:
I just noticed that the Ymgarl Factor only ever works in the assault phase, meaning you can't ever use the 2+ armour save against shooting attacks.

Better yet, you can't use the same ability two turns in a row, meaning that even when you do get to use it you only get the 2+ save half of the time.

40 points well spent!

 xttz wrote:
Flyrants should have made Garoyles Troops. Sure, Nids would be monobuild again, but at least then we'd have decent troops :(

OOE should make Carnifex Troops, could you imagine that?

 Tyran wrote:
I said IA4 because I believe it is the next IA to be updated.

Yes it is the FW Tyranid book, but at the same time if you look at the plot of IA4 the Tyranids in that story don't arrive from orbit, so whilst it would be a 'Nid unit in a 'Nid book, it'd be a little out of context.

The plot of IA4 is Tyranid Park.

Your argument is invalid, HBMC!

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Biomancy has been a crutch for the codex for a long time and isn't what is, or should have been propping it up. Assault rules are what has mostly been the make-or-break factor for the army. Tyranids have always been a "get close and eat their faces" army and the 6th edition assault rules really kneecapped that. Now some of the changes made sense (random charge ranges are needed to offset pre-measuring to ensure people can't just park themselves outside of charge range for instance), but things like the Tau's ability to break the rules of overwatch really hurt the army.

You listed some of the exact reasons for Tyranids to get a solid buff instead of the nerf they got.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Allies is a weird system and while most of it makes sense there are issues and honestly I can't see a way to give Tyranids allies. Genestealer cult dataslates perhaps, but not full allies with the other codexes.

Yes I fully agree, they should never have allies, and that is another reason the army should get stronger, gain more flexibility etc. It didn't.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I see a lot of clamoring about the pods but I don't recall a lot of lists that used pods. If this book is basically a copy and paste (plus nerf bat) wouldn't that make pods still fairly useless since you can't assault out of them?

Not only you could drop Zoanthrope in it, having a solid chance of delivering it into range of whatever you wanted to kill, you could also drop Dakkafex with 12 S6 shots, Devilgants and obviously, if there was Doom, deliever him (her/ it). It's a matter of finding the right spot and in majority of games I was able too, generaly found them usefull even in 6th. Spores served as a cover for freshly dropped units, denied objectives or blocked pathways, also noone says you have to drop them directly into enemy fire. Not to mention GW could make it useful in the new book, if they wanted to.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
All armies should be deadly and efficient. They aren't though and that's one of the reasons I don't really use competitiveness as a measuring stick to say that a book is good or bad because competitive 40k is basically broken.

Yes but in different ways. IG should barrage you into the mud, Tyranids should kill you dead if they get you. You can't nerf CC with them like no rerolls on ST, worse boneswords or making Genestealers the idiots they are now, especialy if you're not going to make up for it.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
There are just too many things stacked against the Nids to expect them to just come in and be competitive like people want right now. The assault rules, Tau and Eldar books all kick the army in the shins pretty hard and even if this book was better I don't think it'd really fix those issues.

Again, that's why the book is bad, it was GWs job to mitigate those issues and they didn't. Allow them shooting into CC, make them faster, give them proper deepstrike or outflank possibilities, I don't know. Maybe the isssues are hard to fix but they could have done a better job. I really think I could do a better job tbh.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
For the record, I don't recall GW claiming (at least publicly) that they were going to "fix" anything, and attribute that to "hype". Fans can't help but hype things. It's what fans do, they get excited and build something up and that almost always ends poorly when GW is involved because the final product is almost never what they wanted or expected. I don't blame people for being fans though, just noting that sometimes expectations get ahead of what the end result is and disappointment occurs.

Ok after reading 160 pages of rumors thread I can't recall wheher this was interview, statement or just a rumour, not sure here.

 Tyran wrote:

 xttz wrote:
Flyrants should have made Garoyles Troops. Sure, Nids would be monobuild again, but at least then we'd have decent troops :(

OOE should make Carnifex Troops, could you imagine that?

A whole army of non-Synapse creatures punching themselves to death whilst your opponent dies of laughter.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The plot of IA4 is Tyranid Park.

Life finds a way...

If IA4 does not get us new Tyranid Park RoB tiles, I will be very displeased.

 Kanluwen wrote:
If IA4 does not get us new Tyranid Park RoB tiles, I will be very displeased.

I'm certain new RoB tiles will help fix the Codex.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
If IA4 does not get us new Tyranid Park RoB tiles, I will be very displeased.

I'm certain new RoB tiles will help fix the Codex.

They will if they include Hive Nests that constantly reinforce!

 the shrouded lord wrote:
Am going to be shot for saying that the codex isn't "that bad"
It's got a gak load of problems
THEY KILLED MY fething PARASITE OF MORTREX.
But aside from this, we can now fit nine carnifexes and 30 gaunts and a hive tyrant + 2 tyrant guard into 1500 point list.
Marine player: ok here's my army, a few tac squads, a dev squard, and 2 preds, oh and a storm raven.
'nids player: here's mine.
*places nine carnifexes on the field*

So you have 1 source of Synapse with ablative wounds on it. Marive player's Dev squad and Predator just starts shooting. And in looks like 3 rounds, your only source of Synapse is dead and you effectively will lose the game.

And your Carnifexes punch each other to death.


But no, we keep forgetting: A bunch of units went down in cost. The Codex is perfect.

Can Genestealers still operate without Synapse?

I take it it's the new third option that's really fethed over Instinctive Behaviour? Or is it the whole thing?

It makes me sad that Raveners aren't mentioned at all with the changes in these 6th edition threads.. do people just really not use them so much that they're just ignored? They're my favourite models next to Warriors, and the pure nerf they got (no more rerolls whatsoever, lost an attack so bonus attack from 2 CCWs doesn't do anything, and spinefists are weaker) bothers me to no end, especially when the Red Terror comes back in and suffers immediately from its own lack of rerolls. Really, my largest beef with the codex as it is, is the changes to the CCWs, and how said change doesn't reflect on the Tyranids that use them at all (look at the Tervigon), it's as if they were a last second decision. Mawlocs are looking nice because they never had any weapons to begin with!

Oh, also Parasite, Rippers, and Mycetic Spores.

Turret49 wrote:
Really, my largest beef with the codex as it is, is the changes to the CCWs, and how said change doesn't reflect on the Tyranids that use them at all (look at the Tervigon), it's as if they were a last second decision. Mawlocs are looking nice because they never had any weapons to begin with!

It's one of the things that bothers me quite a bit, like the unexplainable points increase that Rippers received. I mean, now things with one set of ScyTals get nothing. I love my two Venom Cannon/Scytal Carnifex, and my two ancient RT-era Screamer Killers (double ScyTals). Now on the former they do almost literally nothing, and on the latter they net me a whopping +1 attack. And we can't combine HTH bioweapons any more because of reasons.


But no, it's ok. Some things got cheaper. The books totally cool. We just haven't playtested it for months so we can't tell yet.