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 fartherthanfar wrote:
I feel sorry for everyone who play competitively

I don't play competitively. This Codex is objectively worse. It's mathematically worse off.

 fartherthanfar wrote:
Doom 'o Malantai,
Biomancy
and Mycetic Spore!

The Tervigon got a big nerf (its still useable though)

Even The Trygons lost their re-roll to hit and Tyranid prime got slapped with a point increase plus we lost the old adversary bubble.
Swarmlord lost his re-roll passed invul and cost 5points more (he did becomme a lvl3 psyker, and got bs4 with possibility of Warpblast tho)
Instinctive behavior sucks a bit more than before so synapse controle is more important.
A few other things but these are the big ones mostly.

You've just described a fairly significant set of downgrades to Tyranids as a whole, and then go on to dismiss these issues with a wave of "a few custom rules can balance a game". Sorry, but just because you're going to house rule it doesn't suddenly make the flaws of this new Codex go away. I'm happy that your group is so open that bad Codices can be fixed with house rules - my group spent years playing our own re-written version of 40K, so I know what that's like - but not everyone is like you. Some people are just going to be playing pick up games at their local store - not even competitive tournaments - and they're stuck with this gak hole of a Codex for the foreseeable future.

Some of the other things you said just aren't right. Zoanthropes didn't get buffed. They lost book powers, and they have all-or-nothing powers thanks to psychic brotherhood. Many units got cheaper, but their upgrades got more expensive. This is a bad Codex through and through, and the fact that people are out and out denying that bothers me. This isn't a matter of opinion or how one "feels" about the book. This Codex is simply worse from an objective and mathematical standpoint, with units receiving no benefits and rules being removed wholesale in return for nothing.

 fartherthanfar wrote:
I feel sorry for everyone who play competitively, I dont , so I actually find that its a major improvement from last codex.
Perhaps its true that in the super competitive environment this new codex doesnt quite have what it take to hold his own, but I'm still not convinced of that one.

I find that its gained all sorts of usefull tactics that it didnt have before.

True we lost great stuff:

Doom 'o Malantai,
Biomancy
and Mycetic Spore!

The Tervigon got a big nerf (its still useable though)

Even The Trygons lost their re-roll to hit and Tyranid prime got slapped with a point increase plus we lost the old adversary bubble.
Swarmlord lost his re-roll passed invul and cost 5points more (he did becomme a lvl3 psyker, and got bs4 with possibility of Warpblast tho)
Instinctive behavior sucks a bit more than before so synapse controle is more important.
A few other things but these are the big ones mostly.

All of these really blow and certainly wish we could purely just have them back. I know I'll occasionally be playing with the old codex as allies with my friends, its gonna be a lot of fun
We find that a few custom rules can really balance a game out better if the people involved can agree on it

We did get some major improvements on many dudes though, including:
Devilgaunts,
Venomthrope,
Lictors,
Mawlocs,
Dakkafex,
Tyranofex
and Harpy.

Some good buffs on:
Flyrants,
Tyrant guard,
Zoanthrope,
Shrikes.
We also gained the Crones and Exocrines which are very nice.

Some light upgrade due to meta and codex synergy:
Genestealer and warriors got more appealing due to Tervigon nerf and Instinctive Behaviours changes, now we need something to fill the troops choice when before it was a no brainer.
They were too frail so they were just getting shot off the board, well, now they're still kinda frail but now we have access to much more defensive arsenal, mostly due to Venomthrope but partially simply through more mass, cheaper across the board means more guys, so oversaturation of target means the little 100pts Warriors team gets ignored, Shrikes and Lictors benefit from this tactic as well.
I love the fact that Tau and Eldar are succeptible to pinning and fear, space marines ignore fear but not pinning.
This codex can really force a lot of Ld tests and Genestealers and Warriors both force many pinning tests at long range, contributing to the well being of the Hive.
Both are also unaffected by Instinctive Behaviour, Tyranid Warriors and Shrikes really helps it actually.

For those that say that "the best defense is a good offence" you all get a candy this codex since we shoot much stronger than before and then pin the ones that didnt get shot up too much.

more FMC means better maneuverability, I am looking forward to play between 2-5 FMC per turn

Flanking 30x Devilgaunts is gonna be amazing!

Mawlocs will just keep the opponent on his toes, wondering whats gonna get hit by the massive Wurm coming out of below with two Str6 Ap2, Ignore Cover, Large Blast!!!

Lictors are... are actually playable....I'm..... I'm...... I'm just so happy...I've waited so long for this....Yaaaayyyy!!!

Overall more options then before, even with loss of mycetic spore.

I fail to see how the Harpy was buffed more than the Flyrant in your list, but whatever.

Or how Zoanthropes were buffed at all, with the loss of spores and the mechanics changing to one deny or one fail roll being all rolls have failed. I'd pay 50 points more for spore back and less risk of missing all 3 shots when rolling to hit.

Major improvements from a competitive standpoint would suggest they went up a level of playability, which the Harpy and Lictor did not - they still suffer the same weakness as always for slightly cheaper. They are still completely uncompetitive and not something to be listed as a major selling point. The shrikes are somewhat the same, yes their cheaper but they are still just non-scoring warriors, and largely outclassed by the also terrible ravener who beats them for everything bar Synapse.

While mostly the rest of your list of changes is accurate, I think you are missing the bigger picture - while we have more playable models in the book, most are crammed in to Heavy Support slot, every other slot has a massive stand-out choice. But the main thing we lost is a playstyle - that one model, the spore, was Tyranids only transport. Now we are fairly restricted to lumbering slowly across the board. Deep strike is no more common than before, Trygon's were always the HS option for that and Flyrants always flap ahead, but now there is no further deep striking units like Doom, Zoanthropes, Dakkafex, the closest we can get is outflanking termagants no comparison to a deepstriking devilpod. So while the last book was not packed full of viable playstyle options, we at least had our 2. This book has half as many.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Units that avoided being hit by the Instinctive Behaviour nerf do not count as improved units. Also the reason for this dex being bad is far from competitive reasons. Quite the opposite. Almost everything you listed is almost only relevant to the competitive scene.

... i lost what I was trying to say... damn it.. technology can be a cruel mistress. oh well

When i claimed major improvements I meant compared to before, Can you say 70 pts less per tyranofex, 40pts less per dakkafex, 30pts less per Mawlocs with better rules. if you cant agree that that is a major upgrade on all the important levels then you need to get yourself checked.

The Harpy got a better upgrade than the flyrant cuz he didnt lose anything, got cheaper, aaaand got stronger.
The Flyrant did get much cheaper and stronger, but he did also lost biomancy, which is huge, so overall better upgrade on harpy through complete lack of nerf.

sure we lost some deepstrike capabilities due to loss of mycetic spore, that doesnt mean we cant do decent list they will be all in yo face coming out of mostly nowhere on second turn, remember that Deathleaper and lictors are now a decent choice and Mawocs too(better than the old Trygons BTW) , and now we can flank as many units as we have Flyrants instead of just one per army. Also Genestealer can make a comeback in this codex.
Plus due to our better shooting we can even have the option of keeping some points to support the forward force, something we couldnt really do before.
Plus we have better FMC than last codex and FMC are awesome to support deeptriking army.

see, we still have deepstrike option in this codex, we do have more choices to make then before though since there is no clear winner in the Troops selection.

How convenient ! (j/k)

Zoanthropes did lose deepstrike capabilities, but still got buffs (better chances to get +1 to deny the witch, less dices to roll when casting Warp Blast 2 or 3 times) and cheaper (especially since we arent paying for a spore). lost biomancy and ap1 but they are still playable, its true that this one should be considered minor buff instead of good upgrade due to loss but its puts the Zoan on the same level as the rest of the choices in the elite slots. I will agree the elite slot isnt anywere near as attractive as last codex but that fine, more points to spend on FMC and HS.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 fartherthanfar wrote:
I feel sorry for everyone who play competitively

I don't play competitively. This Codex is objectively worse. It's mathematically worse off.

 fartherthanfar wrote:
Doom 'o Malantai,
Biomancy
and Mycetic Spore!

The Tervigon got a big nerf (its still useable though)

Even The Trygons lost their re-roll to hit and Tyranid prime got slapped with a point increase plus we lost the old adversary bubble.
Swarmlord lost his re-roll passed invul and cost 5points more (he did becomme a lvl3 psyker, and got bs4 with possibility of Warpblast tho)
Instinctive behavior sucks a bit more than before so synapse controle is more important.
A few other things but these are the big ones mostly.

You've just described a fairly significant set of downgrades to Tyranids as a whole, and then go on to dismiss these issues with a wave of "a few custom rules can balance a game". Sorry, but just because you're going to house rule it doesn't suddenly make the flaws of this new Codex go away. I'm happy that your group is so open that bad Codices can be fixed with house rules - my group spent years playing our own re-written version of 40K, so I know what that's like - but not everyone is like you. Some people are just going to be playing pick up games at their local store - not even competitive tournaments - and they're stuck with this gak hole of a Codex for the foreseeable future.

Some of the other things you said just aren't right. Zoanthropes didn't get buffed. They lost book powers, and they have all-or-nothing powers thanks to psychic brotherhood. Many units got cheaper, but their upgrades got more expensive. This is a bad Codex through and through, and the fact that people are out and out denying that bothers me. This isn't a matter of opinion or how one "feels" about the book. This Codex is simply worse from an objective and mathematical standpoint, with units receiving no benefits and rules being removed wholesale in return for nothing.

I wasnt dismissing them at all, I was actually doing the complete opposite of that, I was acknowledging them, that's why I took the time to mention them, if I wanted to dismiss them I would have just said something like "so we lost some little stuff" or something

I did also mention that I would only play custom rules (old codex as allies) occasionally which means that I will be playing most of the time with the real codex.

If you would have taken the time to read the rest of my post you would have also seen that I validate my calm attitude towards the significant loss we took in this new codex by going over some of the awesome upgrades we got. You know since we cant just focus on what we lost for a clear "through and through" picture of the new codex right?

I dont get how you would be complaining about the codex if you dont play super competitive, for regular power level game (ready to fight 2 to maybe even 3 Riptides in a list, not more) then i find we can really give a great fight with this codex

 SHUPPET wrote:

SBG wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Here's an honest question. For people who actually bought the codex, do you think it was worth the price?

For example, I have the SM and SOB codex and think they are worth the price. The Inquisitor book...not so much.

Yep! But I love a challenge. The whining and complaining is hilarious to me, the last thing I want is a 'top tier', win every game, easy button codex.

Every win will be forcibly wrested from the dice gods, and the currency of my victory will be the the piled bodies of my dead.

What about the complaining from people who started playing Tyranids last edition deliberately for the fact that they were not a top tier codex and also love a challenge, and are upset with the release of the new codex not due to power levels but due to the fact that we have a book with less units in it than the last dex, and no longer have any transports what so ever and are pretty much limited to one style of play?

Pretty hilarious right.

Yes. Last codex was fun for me, this codex is fun as well, but with reduced points costs. I'm just enjoying the game I play, being amused by the 'world is ending we have no wraithtide' sorrow that is so prevalent.

The best design philosophy for GW now would be to make every army and unit overpowered, thus making no army or unit overpowered.

If every army is Taudar and Daemons level, then people stop complaining about the Tau. If every unit is Riptide, Wave Serpent, or Hellturkey level good, the griping about those two armies vanishes.

Pretending nothing is wrong and continuing to make mediocre armies and units does nothing to fix the problems we already have. So may as well throw all restraint out the window and go completely over the top.

I forget. Is the 'one style of play' the:

T3 horde?
T4 midsize monster mash?
Infiltrating, deep striking, tunneling and outflanking list?
MC overload?
FMC spam?

 Kain wrote:
The best design philosophy for GW now would be to make every army and unit overpowered, thus making no army or unit overpowered.

If every army is Taudar and Daemons level, then people stop complaining about the Tau. If every unit is Riptide, Wave Serpent, or Hellturkey level good, the griping about those two armies vanishes.

Pretending nothing is wrong and continuing to make mediocre armies and units does nothing to fix the problems we already have. So may as well throw all restraint out the window and go completely over the top.

I'm gonna give you three guess's to figure out why that's not a lucrative or even possible idea for games workshop.

Why is the Venomthrope mentioned as some sort of a super saving buff giver of the nid codex .the edition drips in anti cover stuff and it is realy not that hard to kill it .

 fartherthanfar wrote:

 Kain wrote:
The best design philosophy for GW now would be to make every army and unit overpowered, thus making no army or unit overpowered.

If every army is Taudar and Daemons level, then people stop complaining about the Tau. If every unit is Riptide, Wave Serpent, or Hellturkey level good, the griping about those two armies vanishes.

Pretending nothing is wrong and continuing to make mediocre armies and units does nothing to fix the problems we already have. So may as well throw all restraint out the window and go completely over the top.

I'm gonna give you three guess's to figure out why that's not a lucrative or even possible idea for games workshop.

I was always in favor of GW being bought out by an actually competent company like Hasbro anyway.

When i claimed major improvements I meant compared to before, Can you say 70 pts less per tyranofex, 40pts less per dakkafex, 30pts less per Mawlocs with better rules. if you cant agree that that is a major upgrade on all the important levels then you need to get yourself checked.

An upgrade means a unit got better, a points reduction only means it got cheaper. In the case of fexes they were so severely overcosted last codex anyway the point reduction only brings them into balance cost/use wise with the rest of the choices, its not a great unit, just now its priced appropriately.

I'll give you mawloc got better though.

As for everyone saying about people complaining the codex is bad because it isnt top tier, or overpowered, thats not why what makes it a bad codex. There will no doubt be 1 or 2 good builds that are competitive, who cares? those who are in it for that scene just move around at will.

No. what makes it a bad codex is its almost identical to the last one, almost all copy pasted (so hardly anything new yet charged for a new codex) most units/play choices are practically an auto lose and unplayable since you need certain things to have a balanced chance at a win - no im not talking tournament, just in general, a game isnt fun unless both sides have a chance to win.

For example i hate the models that carry weapons, i thnk they look stupid, a like nids that are actually creatures, fighting with creatures weapons (claws, talons, teeth, spit/pulse/spine weapons etc) not carrying guns or swords!
But to play that list im severely hamstringing my self and almost gurunteeing a loss since melee units either got left alone with no change to already underpowered or fragile options (raveners, genestealers, melee warriors, shrikes), got point increases (tyranid prime 50% increase for no upgrade im especially looking at you!) or even nerfed (no pods, 2 good characters removed, ib feed - the one melee units use - being a crippling blow to them all and the main melee weapon got an undeed nerf - no rerolls from scything talons. Even horms that got cheaper got the upgrades increased to cancel it and got a huge nerf from the ib as well as a smaller one from the scything talons. Not to mention loss of book powers.

So yes there are competitive list options if you like a mono build but if you like a variety of builds of fun/fluffy lists you are playing with a severe handicap against every other army, not least of which is because of no allies to fix gaps like every other army has access to!

Its true we still dont have the fix for the lack of allies but that is likely to be fix when the codex supplement will come out.

if a model is exactly is as powerfull as before yet he is cheaper then that means he is proportionally stronger. that is why i claim that a decrease in points is an upgrade.

its funny how it feels like you talk about the carnifex actually getting priced back to cost/usable as if its not awesome. Im psycked about using Dakkafexs now.

I payed 60$ for my codex and given it is Games-Workshop, and I didnt t have the last codex, I felt satisfied with this codex, i like the fact that its hard backed. the stories might be similar but that fine, the feel was good before and still is now.
If you want to talk about builds, then I can say that i find much more choice then last codex now, I'm seeing all sorts of potentials.

Some unit upgrades got better priced, like toxin sacs for Warriors and Shrikes, and Cluster Spines for Tervigon and even Harpy, although the Biomorph Wargear is pretty bad.
I never considered Warriors or even genestealers before, well Im considering them now. 100 points for a Troop unit that can shoot 36" Large Blast, Pinning, that give Synapse and can take bolter fire pretty decently. Actually they are as hard to kill as terminators vs bolter fire yet they only cost 30pts each.

lots of our old worthless stuff got pointed more appropriately and now we get to try them without feeling like your shooting yourself in the foot for choosing them.

I, for one, am not happy. Games workshop sold me a product. They did NOT say that I would require an additional purchase in the form of a "dataslate" and personnaly will wait until some one like minded (but more nice) person posts it online, which considering, probably will hapon. if worst comes to worst, and I am forced to puchase this abomination, I will have to go in-store, as I can't make purchases off the inter-webs. DAMN MY 14-NESS!

 fartherthanfar wrote:
Its true we still dont have the fix for the lack of allies but that is likely to be fix when the codex supplement will come out.

if a model is exactly is as powerfull as before yet he is cheaper then that means he is proportionally stronger. that is why i claim that a decrease in points is an upgrade.

its funny how it feels like you talk about the carnifex actually getting priced back to cost/usable as if its not awesome. Im psycked about using Dakkafexs now.

I payed 60$ for my codex and given it is Games-Workshop, and I didnt t have the last codex, I felt satisfied with this codex, i like the fact that its hard backed. the stories might be similar but that fine, the feel was good before and still is now.
If you want to talk about builds, then I can say that i find much more choice then last codex now, I'm seeing all sorts of potentials.

Some unit upgrades got better priced, like toxin sacs for Warriors and Shrikes, and Cluster Spines for Tervigon and even Harpy, although the Biomorph Wargear is pretty bad.
I never considered Warriors or even genestealers before, well Im considering them now. 100 points for a Troop unit that can shoot 36" Large Blast, Pinning, that give Synapse and can take bolter fire pretty decently. Actually they are as hard to kill as terminators vs bolter fire yet they only cost 30pts each.

lots of our old worthless stuff got pointed more appropriately and now we get to try them without feeling like your shooting yourself in the foot for choosing them.

Some of what you say is really accurate and on the ball, the other half you really miss, I've noticed this with a lot of your posts.

Carnifexi are friggin sweet, they are definitely better than that guy gave them credit for.

I have no idea what you mean in the paragraph about codex. You didn't have the last book but you bought this one because it's hard backed and looks prettier? That's nice. On to the actual logic stuff, What do you mean by cluster spines got better? They were FREE before and Tervigon got more expensive? You talk about considering Warriors now like they somehow got better, just FYI they were "100 points for a Troop unit that can shoot 36" Large Blast, Pinning, that give Synapse and can take bolter fire pretty decently, actually they are as hard to kill as terminators vs bolter fire yet they only cost 30pts each" in the last codex, and they are just as bad in this one, this isn't an improvement to the unit at all. Absolutely nothing worthless got pointed appropriately. Mawloc's, Dakkafexe's and Tyranno's were playable in the last book, far from worthless, while the REALLY worthless units like Pyrovore, Raveners, Rippers & Genestealers remain unchanged or worse. Old One Eye got a decent point reduction and is still way overpriced, just like Lictors, although the real fix needed for Lictor's does not involve points, they need to be much cheaper to be worthwhile, regardless of how many times you say otherwise. A 3 man Lictor squad is the fastest way to lose 200 points, there is literally not a single squad you can build for 200 points that dies as easy. I rank them #3 worst unit in the codex after Rippers and Pyrovore at #1 & #2 respectively.

 fartherthanfar wrote:
... i lost what I was trying to say... damn it.. technology can be a cruel mistress. oh well

When i claimed major improvements I meant compared to before, Can you say 70 pts less per tyranofex, 40pts less per dakkafex, 30pts less per Mawlocs with better rules. if you cant agree that that is a major upgrade on all the important levels then you need to get yourself checked.

The Harpy got a better upgrade than the flyrant cuz he didnt lose anything, got cheaper, aaaand got stronger.
The Flyrant did get much cheaper and stronger, but he did also lost biomancy, which is huge, so overall better upgrade on harpy through complete lack of nerf.

sure we lost some deepstrike capabilities due to loss of mycetic spore, that doesnt mean we cant do decent list they will be all in yo face coming out of mostly nowhere on second turn, remember that Deathleaper and lictors are now a decent choice and Mawocs too(better than the old Trygons BTW) , and now we can flank as many units as we have Flyrants instead of just one per army. Also Genestealer can make a comeback in this codex.
Plus due to our better shooting we can even have the option of keeping some points to support the forward force, something we couldnt really do before.
Plus we have better FMC than last codex and FMC are awesome to support deeptriking army.

see, we still have deepstrike option in this codex, we do have more choices to make then before though since there is no clear winner in the Troops selection.

The Tyrannofex and Carnifex were so overpriced that they were useless as units. Bringing them down to a reasonable price isn't an improvement, its fixing a mistake.

The reduction in the cost of the Mawloc was nice, and unexpected.

Not really sure the genestealer can make a comeback. They are still extremely easy to kill with fire and scything talons for 4 points a model is ridiculous. The Horror will be useful with Broodlord if you can manage to have him get line of sight to the unit in your previous turn and not get him killed during your opponent's turn. That the Broodlord is still going to be an effective Toughness 4 (average toughness of the brood) makes him barely harder to kill then the genestealers. And he is massively more expensive.

We did get some better shooting, although I still wonder at Hive Guard getting a reduced BS and a price increase at the same time.

I have some better feelings about the codex now then I did when I first read it. However, the Instinctive Behavior tables went to far. If the 1 - 3 effect only occurred on a 1, then the tables wouldn't be bad. But if you are trying to run a swarm then you have to take a lot of synapse, which is reducing your swarm. Since the only synapse creature you can bury in a brood is the now bizarrely overpriced Tyranid Prime, all your opponent needs to do is hunt your synapse creatures. Kill a few of those and watch the swarm defeat itself. Its a great adaptation of the fluff into the rules, trouble is, very little of the positive fluff seems to appear in the codex.

Dakkafex was 112 points in 4th edition, now Carnifexes start at 120 points. Carnifexes points went skyward in 5th to guarantee sales of Trygons.

Also considering competitiveness: A toothpick can be deadly in the hand of an expert. That doesn't make it a weapon on par with an assault rifle.

To everybody complaining: If you hate this codex so much, and you think you honestly know better than the goddamn creators of the game you all pretend to like as an excuse to moan, then apply for a job as a GW codex writer and make a better codex yourself. Or play a different game and stop whining about how anybody who doesn't consider GW the devil incarnate are corporate sheep who need educating. All the bitching in the world isn't going to change anything. Either go and get gak done yourselves, or get lost and stop complaining. Becvause complaining will make no difference whatsoever. At all. If anything, it will make things worse; if I was a GW manager I'd be pretty sick of the constant whining by now and would be going out of my way not to give into your demands. You are not entitled to have the game rules written to your exact demand; you are not the creators. The only thing they "owe" you is products that don't contain warp-anthrax.

But then this whole site is basically a more unified, highly pretentious version of /tg/, convinced of its only intellectual supeirority and with an utterly slowed hipster, entitled hivemind. Heck, the Tyranid Hivemind is more agreeable than most of you. I really don't know why I bother with this forum.

 Squigsquasher wrote:
To everybody complaining: If you hate this codex so much, and you think you honestly know better than the goddamn creators of the game you all pretend to like as an excuse to moan, then apply for a job as a GW codex writer and make a better codex yourself. Or play a different game and stop whining about how anybody who doesn't consider GW the devil incarnate are corporate sheep who need educating. All the bitching in the world isn't going to change anything. Either go and get gak done yourselves, or get lost and stop complaining. Becvause complaining will make no difference whatsoever. At all. If anything, it will make things worse; if I was a GW manager I'd be pretty sick of the constant whining by now and would be going out of my way not to give into your demands. You are not entitled to have the game rules written to your exact demand; you are not the creators. The only thing they "owe" you is products that don't contain warp-anthrax.

But then this whole site is basically a more unified, highly pretentious version of /tg/, convinced of its only intellectual supeirority and with an utterly slowed hipster, entitled hivemind. Heck, the Tyranid Hivemind is more agreeable than most of you. I really don't know why I bother with this forum.

You seem to not understand how a free market works. If you're a store manager and everyone is complaining...maybe you should listen or risk losing your customers. Oh wait, that's exactly what's happening.
The creators of the game also made rules for mutilators and Penitent Engines. Just sayin'.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 SickSix wrote:
How many people crying "the sky is falling" have actually played with the new book?

I'm not really in the business of complaining on forums for days on end but I did get a game in and it was terrible. I played vs a casual Eldar list with no Serpents, no Knight and 350 pts tied up in footslogging Wraithguard that didn't even get to use their guns of Just Take Everything Off The Table because everything was already off the table by the time they got into range.

They mopped you up that badly? not that I doubt it, but would you mind sharing your list, it's pretty subjective otherwise because you could have been running a bunch of rippers genestealers and raveners for all we know....

I admit I had a Lictor and 4 Devourer Warriors

Apart from that:

Flyrant (swooped in on turn 2, did gak all, got grounded by the first scatter laser pointed its way and finished off by jetbikes)
Tervigon (rolled 1,2,2 on first spawning, did 1 wound on Avatar with dessicators, then got sliced in half)
Zoanthrope (tried to babysit Termagants, but didn't make it to turn 2)
30 Termagants (did random things all game because any synapse that moved into their range died before next turn)
20 Hormagaunts (flamer fodder)
2 Hive Guard (the only unit that really did anything - blew up 2 War walkers)
Mawloc (killed 3 Wraithguard coming in)
Dakkafex (died to massed shuriken fire)
Exocrine (died to War Walkers on turn 1 before even firing)

My opponent had the Avatar, a Jetseer, 2x6 Jetbikes, 15 Wraithguard, 3 War Walkers, Wraithlord.

 Squigsquasher wrote:
To everybody complaining: If you hate this codex so much, and you think you honestly know better than the goddamn creators of the game you all pretend to like as an excuse to moan, then apply for a job as a GW codex writer and make a better codex yourself. Or play a different game and stop whining about how anybody who doesn't consider GW the devil incarnate are corporate sheep who need educating. All the bitching in the world isn't going to change anything. Either go and get gak done yourselves, or get lost and stop complaining. Becvause complaining will make no difference whatsoever. At all. If anything, it will make things worse; if I was a GW manager I'd be pretty sick of the constant whining by now and would be going out of my way not to give into your demands. You are not entitled to have the game rules written to your exact demand; you are not the creators. The only thing they "owe" you is products that don't contain warp-anthrax.

But then this whole site is basically a more unified, highly pretentious version of /tg/, convinced of its only intellectual supeirority and with an utterly slowed hipster, entitled hivemind. Heck, the Tyranid Hivemind is more agreeable than most of you. I really don't know why I bother with this forum.

Sums up my feelings too

 Squigsquasher wrote:
To everybody complaining: If you hate this codex so much, and you think you honestly know better than the goddamn creators of the game you all pretend to like as an excuse to moan, then apply for a job as a GW codex writer and make a better codex yourself. Or play a different game and stop whining about how anybody who doesn't consider GW the devil incarnate are corporate sheep who need educating. All the bitching in the world isn't going to change anything. Either go and get gak done yourselves, or get lost and stop complaining. Becvause complaining will make no difference whatsoever. At all. If anything, it will make things worse; if I was a GW manager I'd be pretty sick of the constant whining by now and would be going out of my way not to give into your demands. You are not entitled to have the game rules written to your exact demand; you are not the creators. The only thing they "owe" you is products that don't contain warp-anthrax.

But then this whole site is basically a more unified, highly pretentious version of /tg/, convinced of its only intellectual supeirority and with an utterly slowed hipster, entitled hivemind. Heck, the Tyranid Hivemind is more agreeable than most of you. I really don't know why I bother with this forum.

If you hate this forum so much, and you think you honestly know better than the goddamn admins, then register a website and make a better forum yourself. Or use a different forum and stop whining about how anybody who doesn't agree with you is a slowed, entitled hipster. All the bitching in the world isn't going to change anything. Either go and get gak done yourself, or get lost and stop complaining. Because complaining will make no difference whatsoever. At all. If anything, it will make things worse; if I was a slowed hipster I'd be pretty sick of the constant whining by now and would be going out of my way not to give into your demands. You are not entitled to have threads written to your exact demand; you are not the only user here. The only thing Dakka "owes" you is posts that don't contain goatse links.

And I'm not entirely sure about that last bit.

Wait, wraithguard are good? Are they only good if you give them D scythes? Or are they good with cannons?

 the shrouded lord wrote:
Wait, wraithguard are good? Are they only good if you give them D scythes? Or are they good with cannons?

That depends on what you need them for, though D-scythes are preferred at the moment because the current strategies like lots of models on the board. Scytheguards are also more or less assault proof.

 nwns wrote:
I really don't know why I bother with this forum.

 kirsanth wrote:

 nwns wrote:
I really don't know why I bother with this forum.

I have no idea either.
A thread asking for people's thoughts gets. . .people's thoughts.
Are you shocked that people disagree with you or that "your thoughts" did not apply only to you personally?

The book is not good.
Does that bother you?

 fartherthanfar wrote:
Its true we still dont have the fix for the lack of allies but that is likely to be fix when the codex supplement will come out.

if a model is exactly is as powerfull as before yet he is cheaper then that means he is proportionally stronger. that is why i claim that a decrease in points is an upgrade.

its funny how it feels like you talk about the carnifex actually getting priced back to cost/usable as if its not awesome. Im psycked about using Dakkafexs now.

I payed 60$ for my codex and given it is Games-Workshop, and I didnt t have the last codex, I felt satisfied with this codex, i like the fact that its hard backed. the stories might be similar but that fine, the feel was good before and still is now.
If you want to talk about builds, then I can say that i find much more choice then last codex now, I'm seeing all sorts of potentials.

Some unit upgrades got better priced, like toxin sacs for Warriors and Shrikes, and Cluster Spines for Tervigon and even Harpy, although the Biomorph Wargear is pretty bad.
I never considered Warriors or even genestealers before, well Im considering them now. 100 points for a Troop unit that can shoot 36" Large Blast, Pinning, that give Synapse and can take bolter fire pretty decently. Actually they are as hard to kill as terminators vs bolter fire yet they only cost 30pts each.

lots of our old worthless stuff got pointed more appropriately and now we get to try them without feeling like your shooting yourself in the foot for choosing them.

No offense intended, but this explains quite a lot.

And "lots of our old stuff" being pointed correctly is being generous. That applies almost exclusively to HS options, with things like Warriors, Raveners, Shrikes, and Genestealers sitting all but unchanged since their last iteration. Meanwhile, Ripper swarms (and their flying variant) get MORE expensive. In what world do these two things not build the foundation for "they clearly had no frelling idea what to do with this codex"? For crying out loud, this codex actually made the Pyrovore LESS useful!

 kirsanth wrote:

 nwns wrote:
I really don't know why I bother with this forum.

I have no idea either.
A thread asking for people's thoughts gets. . .people's thoughts.
Are you shocked that people disagree with you or that "your thoughts" did not apply only to you personally?

The book is not good.
Does that bother you?

Indeed,
This book is good, I'm even going to say that its very good... and not explain why
Does that bother you?

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 SickSix wrote:
How many people crying "the sky is falling" have actually played with the new book?

I'm not really in the business of complaining on forums for days on end but I did get a game in and it was terrible. I played vs a casual Eldar list with no Serpents, no Knight and 350 pts tied up in footslogging Wraithguard that didn't even get to use their guns of Just Take Everything Off The Table because everything was already off the table by the time they got into range.

They mopped you up that badly? not that I doubt it, but would you mind sharing your list, it's pretty subjective otherwise because you could have been running a bunch of rippers genestealers and raveners for all we know....

I admit I had a Lictor and 4 Devourer Warriors

Apart from that:

Flyrant (swooped in on turn 2, did gak all, got grounded by the first scatter laser pointed its way and finished off by jetbikes)
Tervigon (rolled 1,2,2 on first spawning, did 1 wound on Avatar with dessicators, then got sliced in half)
Zoanthrope (tried to babysit Termagants, but didn't make it to turn 2)
30 Termagants (did random things all game because any synapse that moved into their range died before next turn)
20 Hormagaunts (flamer fodder)
2 Hive Guard (the only unit that really did anything - blew up 2 War walkers)
Mawloc (killed 3 Wraithguard coming in)
Dakkafex (died to massed shuriken fire)
Exocrine (died to War Walkers on turn 1 before even firing)

My opponent had the Avatar, a Jetseer, 2x6 Jetbikes, 15 Wraithguard, 3 War Walkers, Wraithlord.

More than likely your list still should of accounted well for itself against the opposing list, especially since the bulk of its forces were slower than you (bikes aside). The codex is brand new and it is probably one of the least user friendly codex releases in recent memory. The book is a fair bit better than the peanut crowd on this site is bemoaning but it is much harder to make work; and its better builds will be trumped by Eldar. The codex can maul tau and daemons with the tools at hand, especially if your opponent is underestimating you.

Ignore the previous books, this one is weaker than the previous two. With that said the 3.5 Chaos book has more powerful stuff than its current incarnations, same with Necrons, Sisters and a dozen others during their respective heydays. Look at the book currently in a vacuum in comparison to other 6th edition books and you will see where its relative strengths lie.

- Benefits far more from Stronghold Assault and Fortifications in general than any other army. Void shields or Aegis + Venonthrope make for a staunch defense. Tau cannot simultaneously destroy all components of your army in one volley, plus they go second half the time. You would be wise to invest in LOS blocking terrain and maybe hiding more vulnerable units until the biovores waste the pathfinders. You shoot less than your enemy so defenses matter more to you. Playing in a soccer field and crying over Tau is unhelpful and futile.

- Point for point some of the most efficient units at every FOC. Flying Hive Tyrant, Hive Guard/ Venomthropes, Termagaunts, Gargoyles/Harpies, Carnifexes/Biovores: These things are all powerful in the current state of the game. You have to deal with more of a drawback than your opponent, however if your going to play the army frankly deal with it.

- MC as troops and a ready ability to flood the board with a supply of more of them during the course of the game. Again gimped from the last book, again counters, but again something your opponent doesn't have.

- A very versatile discipline that by itself is probably the best one currently in the game. If you were told as a Tyranid player you were going to be stuck with one only.. your picking this one.

- One of the larger books from a unit choice standpoint. Every slot has at least 5 options with all but a few of them being bantered about currently in the opening stages of dissecting the codex.

- In the running for one of the best modeling experiences you can have in the hobby. If you barely glue and throw bare grey plastic at the opponent this counts little. Just paint up your bugs, display them, and win at the other half of the hobby.

- Nerf or not Tervigons still play the objective game better than anyone, its the only thing that made the book slightly competitive in the last book and it still works. You just now can bring 3 Mawlocs at a reasonable price point and support it.


The book has holes, the book doesn't play itself for you unlike setting up 4 riptides. This book can beat the 4 riptide list though, it can laugh at Helldrakes, it can bog down Flying Circus lists and shut down Jetstar/Screamer Star lists well enough. It has more models than its opponent and a few special tricks in its own right that will be difficult to counter. Play with LOS terrain, realize you get your own shooting phase as well. Realize the opponent cant simultaneously whittle down every unit you have in one volley of fire. Also realize the best marine/ chaos/ necron or grey knight lists are usually victim to Taudar as well.

Makumba wrote:
Why is the Venomthrope mentioned as some sort of a super saving buff giver of the nid codex .the edition drips in anti cover stuff and it is realy not that hard to kill it .

I find that very much depends what army your fighting against, try playing against Dark angels, space wolves, grey knights, Chaos and even Imperial guard only have short range ignore cover, these are all armies I fight against and I know the venomthrope will be super usefull against. there are other ones too but I feel the point is made.

btw Im only expecting the venomthropes to survive till turn 2 or 3 not more, and as long as they can do that I'll be really happy with them, (make sure to leave them out of range and sight as much as possible and most armies wont be able to avoid your army being shrouded)