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And... Go...

I am planning to run a advancing wall of doom list at first. Two ground-based Tyrants, two Tyrannofex, Zoanthropes, a brood of Carnifex (one of the few units that I do think actually got a lot better). Carnifexes eith Adrenal Glands and Spine Banks look really solid.

Termagants will be used for objective holding. I'm half tempted by a stock Tervigon still just to be held back to objective camp and churn out a few more Termagants... but we'll see how we do without it first.

Weapon options for the monsters is an interesting thing. Is it just me, or have Brainleech Devourers lost their twin-linked status? If that's true, I'm almost tempted to o back to Venom Cannons, although of course I'll be lacking anti-air options again unless I bring a Crone or two.

*Edit, no they haven't, Devourers it is.

Here we are, a first version 1500 point heavy assault list (that's "heavy assault", not "assault heavy" :p)

Hive Tyrant (205)
2x Brainleech Devourers, Toxin Sacks

Hive Tyrant (205)
2x Brainleech Devourers, Toxin Sacks

Zoanthrope (50)

Zoanthrope (50)

Zoanthrope (50)

10 Termagants (40)

10 Termagants (40)

10 Termagants (40)

Tyrannofex (185)
Acid Spray, Shreddershard Beetles

Tyrannofex (185)
Acid Spray, Shreddershard Beetles

3 Carnifex (450)
Scything Talons (two sets), Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacks, Spine Banks

The idea will likely be a typical refused flank setup, stuffing seven monsters down their throat as quickly as possible. The Termagants, either Reserved until late-game, or simply hiding out somewhere out of sight. This list is weak at objective camping, but pretty resilient in itself. Individual Zoanthropes taken for more chances on Catalyst, with Paroxysm, Onslaught and The Horror also being acceptable second choices.


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That aside, let's talk about Tyrannofexes.

The basics

+ 30% cheaper base
+ The only 2+ save in the book, still very hard to put down especially if you walk it through terrain
+ Thorax weapons are now better than they were before

- Seems to have lost its "fire all three weapons" ability
- Competes for Heavy Support slots, which is our new "crowded" section
- You now have to pay for your Thorax Swarm

The weapons

Acid Spray is still the default; you don't pay anything more for it and it's still a reliable S6/AP4 template with Torrent. Given the cost reduction, taking this isn't nearly as much of a points commitment as it was before. AP3 would have been nice, but on the other hand I'm happy to settle for this as a means of digging the enemy out of cover.

Rupture Cannons are the same (well, 15 points more expensive, but the beast itself is a lot cheaper. I've never actually used a Rupture Cannon, and can't say that I've really wanted one because I tend to play aggressive lists and extreme range isn't something I've felt the need to invest in. It's still a couple of high strength shots though, so if you do face a lot of armoured tank-bunker style lists it's better than nothing (in a vacuum, anyway).

Fleshborer Hives are still weird. This gun is still Assault 20, and has gained 6" range (up to 18"). On the other hand, it's still just S4/AP5. Novel in that it can fill the sky with beetles to try and hit an FMC to force a Grounding Test, and not bad on Overwatch, but generally I don't think there's anything major this one does than an Acid Spray doesn't do just as well (and more cheaply).

Thorax Swarms are still cool, and are actually a bit better now. You do have to pay for them, but at 10 points it's not bad. Dessicator Larvae are probably the weakest of the lot, having Fleshbane and AP-, which isn't in itself bad but I think the other two are just better. Electroshock Grubs are still S5/AP5, but have gained Haywire which adds to the close-ranged vehicle killing power of the beast (and you have the potential to hit several targets with it two, especially if you're firing at a vehicle squadron that has for some insane reason ended up close to your Tyrannofex...). Shreddershard Beetles are still S3/AP- with Rending, but have now also gained Shred. I think this is the strongest default option of the three, making it pretty versatile over-all and is definitely what I will be taking.

The Biomorphs

Toxin Sacks for 10 points, not worth it on what is basically a gun-beast. If you do end up in combat with something tough, you Smash it (and ideally you don't want to be in melee too much anyway...), so these I would skip.

Adrenal Glands are more controversial. 15 points is quite expensive, but Fleet combined with Onslaught makes for a really nasty surprise (especially in a list like I'm planning on running above, which is very likely to end up with Onslaught). I am going to try and run these without Adrenal Glands at first, and see how we do.

Acid Blood is cool, but sadly I want to spend the 15 points on this on something pro-active rather than something that the enemy has to inflect upon itself. The Haruspex comes with this, so we will definitely see it in battle to come, but ideally your Tyrannofex won't be engaging too much in melee.

Regeneration is really tempting. Expensive at 30 points, but the chance to regain a wound on a 4+ is really interesting on a tank-beast like this, not only prolonging the life of the Tyrannofex but also potentially forcing your opponent's hand by having him divert more attention to the Tyrannofex than he might otherwise have wanted to, because if you only half-kill it then you run the risk of your effort being completely wasted in a few turns after it regenerates to full health. For the moment, I'm going to skip this in my list, but it is definitely something I will playtest in the not too distant future.

Optimal preasumed list looks like

2x Dakka Flyrant
Some venomtropes for shrowding
Warriors or zoanthropes for backfield sinapse
-Some troops for objective holding-
3 Hive crones
3 Exocrines

But I don't have exocrine or crones; don't plan to buy lots from the scum that gave us this crap of a codex.

Waiting for codex to figure out what working combo can my current collection produce.

So you don't have a codex, but you hate the codex? It is not a win button. I don't see initial greatness. I do, however, know that you can't call it bad when you haven't had time to digest the new rules and units.

The sky isn't falling. My favorite army is Dark Angels. There is a gakky codex. I already see two builds of nids that are going to be pretty good, and that is off of the top of my head after reading the codex one time.

Biovores/Spore Mines look to be the hidden gem of the Codex as far as I can tell. If a Biovore misses the target on its first shot and you place D3 Spore Mines, there's no restriction to stop that cluster assaulting in the following assault phase, since it was 'placed' and didn't arrive vis 'Deep Strike' so is not bound by those restrictions.
Might get FAQ'd out pretty quickly but I shall enjoy it while I can.

Just a question because I cannot find a definitive answer on it, do we have ANY skyfire weapons? Sometimes I face marines and their flyers pretty much mean game over. And is there anything about flyrant assaulting another flyer? I have the new codex but didnt see anything about it.

moviesean wrote:
Just a question because I cannot find a definitive answer on it, do we have ANY skyfire weapons? Sometimes I face marines and their flyers pretty much mean game over. And is there anything about flyrant assaulting another flyer? I have the new codex but didnt see anything about it.

FMCs can have Skyfire for a turn if they like, so a Tyrant with Wings can unload Brainleech Devourers into an enemy flier. That's the only Skyfire we have.

The Hive Crone can unleash S8 Vector Strikes on enemy fliers though, which often aren't bad.

Xyptc wrote:

moviesean wrote:
Just a question because I cannot find a definitive answer on it, do we have ANY skyfire weapons? Sometimes I face marines and their flyers pretty much mean game over. And is there anything about flyrant assaulting another flyer? I have the new codex but didnt see anything about it.

FMCs can have Skyfire for a turn if they like, so a Tyrant with Wings can unload Brainleech Devourers into an enemy flier. That's the only Skyfire we have.

The Hive Crone can unleash S8 Vector Strikes on enemy fliers though, which often aren't bad.

I guess the crone's Haywire missiles should count, but more of a way to finish off an enemy flyer than straight-up killing it ....

Xyptc wrote:

moviesean wrote:
Just a question because I cannot find a definitive answer on it, do we have ANY skyfire weapons? Sometimes I face marines and their flyers pretty much mean game over. And is there anything about flyrant assaulting another flyer? I have the new codex but didnt see anything about it.

FMCs can have Skyfire for a turn if they like, so a Tyrant with Wings can unload Brainleech Devourers into an enemy flier. That's the only Skyfire we have.

The Hive Crone can unleash S8 Vector Strikes on enemy fliers though, which often aren't bad.

Where does it say this? My friends will ask to see lol. That kind of stinks, pretty much means if a flyer comes on the map my flyrant HAS to focus all its attention to one unit -.-
Might have to run dual flyrants to make this viable, but hey at least I dont have to buy tervigons now!

Thanks for the info!

Also dont forget that shadow in the warp is not just when psykers are making a leadership test, but it is ALL the time.

So combine this with horror and a psyker unit is testing at -5.

Might be a good counter to the psychic deathstars.

Enceladus wrote:
Biovores/Spore Mines look to be the hidden gem of the Codex as far as I can tell. If a Biovore misses the target on its first shot and you place D3 Spore Mines, there's no restriction to stop that cluster assaulting in the following assault phase, since it was 'placed' and didn't arrive vis 'Deep Strike' so is not bound by those restrictions.
Might get FAQ'd out pretty quickly but I shall enjoy it while I can.

Spore mines are more so the anti Overwatch item of the book, which may make biovores a must have, Not to mention its 3 S6 ap4 large blasts when all 3 mines hit.

 Leth wrote:
Also dont forget that shadow in the warp is not just when psykers are making a leadership test, but it is ALL the time.

So combine this with horror and a psyker unit is testing at -5.

Might be a good counter to the psychic deathstars.

Considering that both Eldar and daemon deathstars rely on Psychic powers, this will effectively kill those builds. Somewhat, at least.

MC in every slot. EVERY slot.

or

Gants. Gants Everywhere.

 McNinja wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Also dont forget that shadow in the warp is not just when psykers are making a leadership test, but it is ALL the time.

So combine this with horror and a psyker unit is testing at -5.

Might be a good counter to the psychic deathstars.

Considering that both Eldar and daemon deathstars rely on Psychic powers, this will effectively kill those builds. Somewhat, at least.

Problem is that Tau and Serpent spam will wreck Nids, so gearing your army to face off against 2 builds may screw you when facing normal opponents. For example, at Da Boyz GT, there was only 2 or 3 Jetstars that I noticed out of 100 players.

As for screamerstar, its one turn that they essentially have a 2+ save (failing on 2s instead) if they manage to fail, you can easily spread the unit out in such a way that the psyker with the important power is 12" away, and the 9 screamers are going to maul the tyrant with S5 ap2 attacks.

All in all its a great thing against those builds but it wont stop them.

Problem is that you are comparing to builds that are not really where people in general want the game to be. I prefer to compare a book to something I feel is more applicable like Space Marines. IMO that is the level that books should be at and compared to.

Can we still take biomancy powers? I hear verywhere that we can not...

 g0atsticks wrote:
Can we still take biomancy powers? I hear verywhere that we can not...

Afraid not.
And now we are going to hearing: Blaa-Blaa-Blaa No Biomancy Blaa-Blaa-Blaa for the next half dozen post.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 McNinja wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Also dont forget that shadow in the warp is not just when psykers are making a leadership test, but it is ALL the time.

So combine this with horror and a psyker unit is testing at -5.

Might be a good counter to the psychic deathstars.

Considering that both Eldar and daemon deathstars rely on Psychic powers, this will effectively kill those builds. Somewhat, at least.

Problem is that Tau and Serpent spam will wreck Nids, so gearing your army to face off against 2 builds may screw you when facing normal opponents. For example, at Da Boyz GT, there was only 2 or 3 Jetstars that I noticed out of 100 players.

As for screamerstar, its one turn that they essentially have a 2+ save (failing on 2s instead) if they manage to fail, you can easily spread the unit out in such a way that the psyker with the important power is 12" away, and the 9 screamers are going to maul the tyrant with S5 ap2 attacks.

All in all its a great thing against those builds but it wont stop them.

The thing is though that Tyranids don't have to "gear" themselves against Psyker heavy armies. Their army rules cover cover that without anyone trying too hard.

I need more FA slots.
I've considered running a harpy in with Gargoyles for CC, but think I'll probably be using Crone more often.
Also considering Outflanking Tervigon...
I'm really hoping the upcoming data slate buffs Genestealers (as GS was mentioned). I would be much happier in running a CC 'box'.
I like the idea of mines, but unlikely to have the slots free for them in general builds.


But yeah I think a stronger build will end up being 2 FHT and 3 Crones. Yeah OK they can be grounded, and have 4+ save, but 5 FMCs on the board is hard for anyone to take down in a decent amount of time, for <1k points its a bit funny. Skyfire exists but I wouldn't call it 'plentiful', grounding 1 per turn is likely, 2 ok, depending on the army, 3 very few armies will be able to archive this reliably. - Realistically if you want to go for the FMC's you will be sinking many shots into trying to kill them.
I plan on running 5 FMC's for a while against different armies to see what can be expected in the durability.
The normal guns are useful in a range of circumstances, and when against the exceptions, we have 5 VS's. HT continue to be good all round units, consider the crone only to be adding, they are fairly cheap and they will either survive, or draw specialist weaponry away from the HT's, Armies still have limited shot count, and what we lack in T9 from Biomancy we make back in wounds on the board.


I've considered back camping a bit for the above, probably with ranged warriors, ADL + Venomthorpe for 2+ cover saves, as ADL is a ideal height for Warriors, with Venoms giving Shrouded - much easier to back camp with high cover saves. Might be possible for the same with a Fex/s or MC's, have not really looked at them but my brain thinks they will be too big. For an 'all rounder' list though this part wants to be relativity cheap.
Having both however is probably not needed.

 Leth wrote:
Problem is that you are comparing to builds that are not really where people in general want the game to be. I prefer to compare a book to something I feel is more applicable like Space Marines. IMO that is the level that books should be at and compared to.

But they exist. And we have to deal with reality.

 McNinja wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Also dont forget that shadow in the warp is not just when psykers are making a leadership test, but it is ALL the time.

So combine this with horror and a psyker unit is testing at -5.

Might be a good counter to the psychic deathstars.

Considering that both Eldar and daemon deathstars rely on Psychic powers, this will effectively kill those builds. Somewhat, at least.

Well, Seer Council is immune to pinning by virtue of being jetbikes and Daemons auto-pass pinning plus Daemons of Tzeentch get a + bonus to casting which negates SitW. On top of that, they're mobile enough to get blessings off and can bring all sorts of unpleasantness like Terrify to sweep nids off the table.

Nids have a better shot than other armies, sure, but old SitW was arguably better against them. Gargoyles are probably the best answer to Screamerstar with blinding venom neutering them, while Seer Council can just Hit & Run away.

 Chumbalaya wrote:

 McNinja wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Also dont forget that shadow in the warp is not just when psykers are making a leadership test, but it is ALL the time.

So combine this with horror and a psyker unit is testing at -5.

Might be a good counter to the psychic deathstars.

Considering that both Eldar and daemon deathstars rely on Psychic powers, this will effectively kill those builds. Somewhat, at least.

Well, Seer Council is immune to pinning by virtue of being jetbikes and Daemons auto-pass pinning plus Daemons of Tzeentch get a + bonus to casting which negates SitW. On top of that, they're mobile enough to get blessings off and can bring all sorts of unpleasantness like Terrify to sweep nids off the table.

Nids have a better shot than other armies, sure, but old SitW was arguably better against them. Gargoyles are probably the best answer to Screamerstar with blinding venom neutering them, while Seer Council can just Hit & Run away.

I can see SITW causing some havoc with Daemonic instability tests, depending on the unit. In that case, I do think it's better.

 Inigo Montoya wrote:
There is a gakky codex. I already see two builds of nids that are going to be pretty good, and that is off of the top of my head after reading the codex one time.

And those 2 builds are??

I've seen a fair few people saying some good things about the new fliers - in particular the Crone - but I really don't think they're very good at all. If your opponent has a BS5+ model on a Quad Gun, chances are that they're dead as soon as they come in. Yes, the Crone will maul enemy fliers, but it won't be allowed to live long enough to do so.

The "star" units of the Codex, in my opinion, are the following:

Flyrants - Although these have lost biomancy (you only had a ~1/3 chance of getting Iron Arm anyway), I think they've really improved overall. +1BS, a significant points decrease, and access to what I believe is a decent form of Regeneration, albeit a bit expensive. The good ol' TL Brainleech Devs build will be useful, but, for 5 pts more, you can get two templates that both wound on 2+ which is a pretty cool build, and is nice and different too.

Deathleaper + Mawlocs - Chances are that Deathleaper's just going to die before he gets to do anything meaningful, but the fact that your enemy always have to fire Snap Shots at him means that he'll soak up a TON of fire. If not, you may get close to allow your Mawloc(s) to land some pinpoint blasts, which is really nice. Spore Mines may benefit also

Devilgaunts - These guys do exactly the same thing that they did awesomly before, only for 2 points cheaper. A unit of 15-20 outflanking thanks to the Hive Tyrant's Hive Commander is really nasty still. The best thing is that not all of the gants in the brood have to take Deathspitters. You can have 15 with and 15 without, saving yourself 60 points and having a good shield of ablative wounds before your Devourers get into range

Zoanthropes - These guys are sad they lost best buddy Doom and the ability to take a Pod, but they've been reduced by 10 points and effectively all get to fire off their Warp Blasts/Lances off one Psychic Test. I guess this is a double edged sword (it's all or nothing), but the ability to drop three S5 AP3 blasts or shoot around 3 S10 AP2 Lances is pretty good. Using nearest model shenanigans, your opponent is going to have to get through 3 T4 3++ before that damage output is reduced.

Venomthropes - Easily the stars of the codex. 45 Points for a Shrouded bubble. Win.

Biovores - These guys went down 5 points and gained an extra Wound and point of Attack and Initiative (though the latter two are fairly irrelevant). Their shooting is still as effective as before and, more importantly, any Spore Mines created from missed shots are more useful, and less random.

Mawlocs - A reduction in points, for an increase in effectiveness, sort of. Could be a double edged sword, but I really think these guys are very useful in a Tyranid list, able to cause huge damage to builds of lists that Tyranids hate. They'll quite easily take out a unit of Suits/Devastators or the like and, although they may mishap, they've already done their job.

Honourable mentions:

Carnifexes - You can run these alone with simply Adrenal Glands and they won't care about IB and will cause a fair amount of damage, for a fairly cheap cost. A shootier variety with Bioplasma and/or TL Devs is pretty good, but these require Synapse and you miss out on an extra attack which, with only WS3, is really useful. I'm not entirely sold on their effectiveness what is a very crowded HS slot.

Exocrines - The last sentence of the Carnifex paragraph above applies to this also, but I think that any ranged AP2 in a Tyranid army is nice, especially if it's S7 and a Large Blast. The range is somewhat disappointing though, and you wonder whether or not Mawlocs can do the whole ranged AP2 Large Blast thing better and cheaper.

Just my views, feel free to discuss

 The Shadow wrote:


Zoanthropes - These guys are sad they lost best buddy Doom and the ability to take a Pod, but they've been reduced by 10 points and effectively all get to fire off their Warp Blasts/Lances off one Psychic Test. I guess this is a double edged sword (it's all or nothing), but the ability to drop three S5 AP3 blasts or shoot around 3 S10 AP2 Lances is pretty good. Using nearest model shenanigans, your opponent is going to have to get through 3 T4 3++ before that damage output is reduced.

Do I get something wrong, or 3 Zoes actually drop only one Lance/blast now, not 3?

Zoans only fire the power off once, but their version of the power is A:X where X is number of models in the brood.

So their dmg output does drop as the squad gets killed of?

 Ratliker wrote:
So their dmg output does drop as the squad gets killed of?

Like 99% of all units, yes

The biggest tactical boost we got is the ability to use fortifications and quad guns, my idea is a tyrant with norn crown and h ven cannon on a agis quad with venomthrope support take dominion power and there is now a 24" synapse bubble with a 2+ cover shooting a quad gun and venom cannon. Or put a cheap warrior unit there giving scoring back field support.

Wasn't th ban on tyranid using quadguns was in the rulebook?