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2014/02/06 23:58:16
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
1) Servoskulls. Realy screw with Infiltrating lists.
2) Interceptor. DSing around anything with Interceptor is going to be a bad idea. Same as Cortez's "expecting you" ability.
2014/02/07 00:03:51
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
Gloomfang wrote: 1) Servoskulls. Realy screw with Infiltrating lists.
2) Interceptor. DSing around anything with Interceptor is going to be a bad idea. Same as Cortez's "expecting you" ability.
Interceptor works on outflank and standard arrival for reserves. I'm saying there's no reason in a standard game to trade guaranteed arrival location for a 2/3 chance to walk 6" on a particular side you hope to be at.
Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it.
2014/02/07 00:28:51
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
Speaking of reserve : the broodlord pack formation states that you can place them in ruins 'when coming from reserve'.
Do you have do declare during deployment they will use this ability? Or can you say they will outflank (at beginning of the game) then finally choose the ability when they come out?
2014/02/07 00:35:15
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
Gloomfang wrote: 1) Servoskulls. Realy screw with Infiltrating lists.
2) Interceptor. DSing around anything with Interceptor is going to be a bad idea. Same as Cortez's "expecting you" ability.
Interceptor works on outflank and standard arrival for reserves. I'm saying there's no reason in a standard game to trade guaranteed arrival location for a 2/3 chance to walk 6" on a particular side you hope to be at.
Said it was a fun fact, not something usefull.
Honestly not something I would probably ever do. But there are times I wouldn't DS or be able to infiltrate.Probably just start on my deployment zone.
2014/02/07 01:02:01
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
XC18 wrote: Speaking of reserve : the broodlord pack formation states that you can place them in ruins 'when coming from reserve'.
Do you have do declare during deployment they will use this ability? Or can you say they will outflank (at beginning of the game) then finally choose the ability when they come out?
choose a type of reserve...normal or outflank...or anything else if a mission or game type allows it...they can choose to show up in ruins instead and decide in that turn
I can see one idea of Synapse-free list being proposed.
What if I counter with a synapse-heavy list, whereby you have tons of redundancy with synapse units still contributing to the army in an effective way?
The main issue I see with this is, past say 1500pts, you simply run out of FOC for this to be viable. Ally-options would change this drastically (an additional 3 single zoanthropes taking the place of a 2nd Tervigon) but alas
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/07 01:02:19
Razerous wrote: I can see one idea of Synapse-free list being proposed.
What if I counter with a synapse-heavy list, whereby you have tons of redundancy with synapse units still contributing to the army in an effective way?
The main issue I see with this is, past say 1500pts, you simply run out of FOC for this to be viable. Ally-options would change this drastically (an additional 3 single zoanthropes taking the place of a 2nd Tervigon) but alas
i've played 8 games with new nidz so far ( 3x C:SM, 2x CSM , 2x Tau, 1x DE/Eldar,), and so far i lost only 1 game ( Vs Imperial fist with 3 flyers at 1k points) and I must admit that my nidz are doing far better than expected, especially against DE/Eldar.
At 1750 pts I ran:
Against DE/Eldar list that included 10 rangers, seercouncil, 3 venoms with blaster, raider with wycher and leileth, illikh, wraitknight etc. I was expecting to lose horribly but due to getting 3x onslaught and Onslaught + VS + Flamer/Devourers+flying off of the table I lured his venoms into one corner of the table with exposed flyrant, and once he failed to kill it I massacred all his venoms and most scoring units with Crone + 2x Flyrants + Biovores, leaving wyches and warriors scattered, pinned, miles away from the relic and without any trasnport and without anything to shoot at. My crone got me FB (and effectively winning the game since I won by 1 point) by Vector striking raider, flaming 8 wyches within it and then running off the table
2014/02/07 01:14:25
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
To be fair...onslaught was the original battle focus and the 5th ed book explicitly stated that you could run or shoot first...but, the times...they are a changin'.
Lansirill wrote:I'm not sure how valuable minimizing Synapse really is, considering that it tends to come packaged with Shadow in the Warp. Between Daemons and Eldar I really like having enough of that in my list to at least cause them a little grief. I like the 5-man Genestealer squads for scoring myself, but I'm not sure I agree on the lack of Synapse.
I like genestealers because they can augment your turn two threat saturation depending on what you're facing. If you think they are not needed or will do no good there you then have the option of leaving them to camp. For units you want as dedicated campers though a brood of three warriors with a strangler is only 30 points more and provides threat to a large area of the battlefield. Either is a good choice IMO.
Mozzamanx wrote: See I'd go completely the other way regarding Manufactorum 'Stealers because by Infiltrating that close, all you are saying is 'Here is 25% of my entire Scoring capability, please kill it before my actual threats get here'.
It depends on their deployment, weapon ranges, unit choices, etc. If you're going first and their deployment allows you get your flyers close to them on turn 1 then theirs no reason not to infiltrate right on top of them to present as much threat as possible. Most armies will have no choice but to focus on grounding those flyers and any fire going elsewhere is detracting from their ability to deal with the main threat at that point.
Also if they don't have much that ignores cover infiltrate right next door to them in cover and GtG for a 2+ cover save.
In any case, if you don't feel it would do any good in a particular battle, then don't. Just hold them in reserve, infiltrate, or even deploy them in you back field and just have them camp objectives. Point is they may die fairly easy to many things but they're cheap and come with many deployment options that can be used to you advantage.
-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change.
2014/02/07 06:40:51
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
Anyone have any suggestions for a 1000pt Tyranid starter army? Considering getting into the Swarm...
6000 pts
2000 pts
2500 pts
3000 pts
"We're on an express elevator to hell - goin' down!"
"Depends on the service being refused. It should be fine to refuse to make a porn star a dildo shaped cake that they wanted to use in a wedding themed porn..."
2014/02/07 07:45:58
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
Do you have an idea on what sort of army you want to run? A 1000 point horde army is a lot different to 1000 point Nidzilla.
Ailaros wrote: You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!"
2014/02/07 13:24:36
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
Regen at low point evels is much better and you need that Tervigon to last the game. If you get lucky with a bit of onsluaght catalyst the list should do really well at 1000 ... three MCs are just hard to deal with at that level.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/07 13:25:05
2014/02/07 13:50:27
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
Regen at low point evels is much better and you need that Tervigon to last the game. If you get lucky with a bit of onsluaght catalyst the list should do really well at 1000 ... three MCs are just hard to deal with at that level.
My opinion: I would drop a TLDev and pickup a Heavy Venom Cannon on the Flyrant instead. It will be your only fast unit to get across the board quickly and will be a prime target for killing. Giving him the HVC will allow you to take things slower, move him with your other MCs and not worry about the range of your devs.
2014/02/07 14:32:45
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
Newtype Zero wrote: My opinion: I would drop a TLDev and pickup a Heavy Venom Cannon on the Flyrant instead. It will be your only fast unit to get across the board quickly and will be a prime target for killing. Giving him the HVC will allow you to take things slower, move him with your other MCs and not worry about the range of your devs.
If he had any other form of AA, this would be a decent idea. But not having a second flyrant or a crone, really makes that second set of devs important.
Newtype Zero wrote: My opinion: I would drop a TLDev and pickup a Heavy Venom Cannon on the Flyrant instead. It will be your only fast unit to get across the board quickly and will be a prime target for killing. Giving him the HVC will allow you to take things slower, move him with your other MCs and not worry about the range of your devs.
If he had any other form of AA, this would be a decent idea. But not having a second flyrant or a crone, really makes that second set of devs important.
The more i look at my lists using a firestorm, the more open this codex is appearing to me. Having reliable AA for the same cost as a flyrant leaves me to go wild and use Deathleaper or Old One Eye without feeling guilty.
but yes, in that person's case keeping both devourers on the flyrant is probably a wonderful idea.
Speaking of dual devourers, have you guys seen the new bit that forgeworld teased in their blog? It'll be possible to wysiwyg 2 pairs of devourers with those arms, and great conversion bits for dakkafexes. Here's hoping they don't cost 12 GBP apiece.
Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it.
2014/02/07 14:44:38
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
tetrisphreak wrote: The more i look at my lists using a firestorm, the more open this codex is appearing to me. Having reliable AA for the same cost as a flyrant leaves me to go wild and use Deathleaper or Old One Eye without feeling guilty.
but yes, in that person's case keeping both devourers on the flyrant is probably a wonderful idea.
Speaking of dual devourers, have you guys seen the new bit that forgeworld teased in their blog? It'll be possible to wysiwyg 2 pairs of devourers with those arms, and great conversion bits for dakkafexes. Here's hoping they don't cost 12 GBP apiece.
Those devourers were sculpted exactly to look like pre-existing conversions made by the tyranid community.
I have just been ignoring AA...it's been working beautifully.
tetrisphreak wrote: The more i look at my lists using a firestorm, the more open this codex is appearing to me. Having reliable AA for the same cost as a flyrant leaves me to go wild and use Deathleaper or Old One Eye without feeling guilty.
but yes, in that person's case keeping both devourers on the flyrant is probably a wonderful idea.
Speaking of dual devourers, have you guys seen the new bit that forgeworld teased in their blog? It'll be possible to wysiwyg 2 pairs of devourers with those arms, and great conversion bits for dakkafexes. Here's hoping they don't cost 12 GBP apiece.
Those devourers were sculpted exactly to look like pre-existing conversions made by the tyranid community.
I have just been ignoring AA...it's been working beautifully.
True...
I have bio cannon bits from the 2 crones i put together, that's currently in my "to do" list is to get some devourer tips and make them into TLDev's.
Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it.
2014/02/07 14:50:29
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
So I have a league game tonight. It's a funky scenario - kill points, game lasts for 7 turns (no rolling for turns) and dead units come on from Reserve on your next turn.
I'm playing against another Nid player. I'm thinking of using the following list:
Spoiler:
+++ escalation1750 (1750pts) +++
+ HQ +
* Hive Tyrant
(Psyker (Mastery Level 2) (), Shadow in the Warp, Synapse Creature)
2x Twin-Linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms
* Old One Eye
(Alpha Leader, Berzerk Rampage, Fearless, Instinctive Behaviour - Feed, Living Battering Ram)
Crushing claws, Scything talons, Thresher scythe (Tail Weapon)
* Warlord Trait
Adaptive Biology
Part of the point is to have fun, so it's not a balls-to-the-wall tournament list, but I want to see how well it can do overall. Obviously I have a weakness vs Flyers, but with 60 Twin Linked shots a turn I think I'm okay. IIRC MY opponent only has one Flyrant anyway. And I'm still debating between the Shreddershard and the Dessicator on the Tyrannofex.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
2014/02/07 15:00:43
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
rigeld2 wrote: and dead units come on from Reserve on your next turn.
Personally, that sounds like the best reason ever to run manufactorum stealers.
I disagree - they can't charge the turn they show up and you're basically feeding 5-model kill points to your opponent with them. I like his approach of the Big T6 Broods so that they die less frequently.
Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it.
2014/02/07 15:11:37
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
rigeld2 wrote: and dead units come on from Reserve on your next turn.
Personally, that sounds like the best reason ever to run manufactorum stealers.
I disagree - they can't charge the turn they show up and you're basically feeding 5-model kill points to your opponent with them. I like his approach of the Big T6 Broods so that they die less frequently.
However, IMO the VSG (Void Shield Generator) is still a broken piece of equipment that is really too good in regular games. It's main attraction for me is that it stops all ranged small-arms fire if the opponent fails to penetrate the void shields. So F-U venom-spam DE. Muahahahaha.....
Dark Eldar are typically equipped with a ludicrous number of Dark Lances as well.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
2014/02/07 16:34:17
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
Regen at low point evels is much better and you need that Tervigon to last the game. If you get lucky with a bit of onsluaght catalyst the list should do really well at 1000 ... three MCs are just hard to deal with at that level.
I think you suggestion is ok, but it is very slow, and requires several models that would dictate future strategy. I think that the key to a Tyranids list is deciding fast nids (flyers + Mawlocs) or slow nids (CFexes, Exocrines, Maybe TFexes). I'll give you an example of each at 1850 (these examples aren't optimized versions), and then give you a 1000 pts list that mainly focuses on units useful for both, that way you could get started without having to determine an overall direction for your list.
Fast Nids (1850)
Spoiler:
Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL Devourer, Hive Commander) - 250
Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL Devourer) - 230
Zoanthrope -50
Venomthrope -45
Zoanthrope - 50
3 Tyranids Warriors (scything Talons on each with 2 Devourers and 1 Barbed Strangler) - 100
25 TGaunts (10 Spinefist, 15 Devourer) - 160
11 HGaunts - 55
20 Gargoyles - 120 (Could be replaced with Raveners)
Crone - 155 (Could be replaced with 2nd Harpy)
Harpy (HVC) - 140 (Could be replaced with 2nd Crone)
3 Biovores - 120
Mawloc - 140
Mawloc - 140
Bastion + Comms Relay - 95
Slow Nids (1850)
Spoiler:
Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL Devourer) - 230
Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL Devourer) - 230
2 Zoanthrope -100 (Could be Replaced with Hive Guard)
2 Venomthrope -90
Zoanthrope - 50
3 Tyranids Warriors (scything Talons on each with 2 Devourers and 1 Barbed Strangler) - 100
10 HGaunts - 50
10 HGaunts - 50
20 Gargoyles - 120
3 Biovores - 120
3 Carnifexes (3 Adrenal glands, 1 with 2 Scything Talons, 2 with 2 TL Devourers) - 465
Exocrine - 170 (Could be replaced with TFex)
Bastion - 75 (Could be replaced with Aegis)
Specialty units that you should avoid unless building a specialty list:
Spoiler:
Old One-Eye
Deathleaper
Swarmlord
Haruspex (Same kit as Exocrine)
Lictor
Pyrovore
Genesteelers
Ripper Swarms
Sky Slasher Swarms
Trygon (Same kit as Mawloc)
Trygon Prime (Same kit as Mawloc)
Unique units that you shouldn't buy until you know your strategy:
Spoiler:
TGaunts with Devourers aka Devilgaunts
Crone
Harpy
Mawloc
Carnifex
Exocrine
TFex
Tervigon
Units you will likely need no matter what direction you go:
Spoiler:
2 Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL Devouers). I would Magnetize the Devourers, because at time you might want to run a BS + LW 1 - 3 Venomthrope
2 - 4 Zoanthropes
3 Warriors (1 Barbed Strangler)
10 - 40 HGaunts
10 - 40 TGaunts (Spinefist is my preference, but Flesborers are ok)
20 - 40 Gargoyles
3 Biovores
Bastion
So I think a good 1000 point list might look like this:
Spoiler:
Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL Devourer) - 230
Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL Devourer) - 230
Zoanthrope -50
Venomthrope -45
13 HGaunts - 65
10 TGaunts - 40
3 Tyranids Warriors (scything Talons on each with 2 Devourers and 1 Barbed Strangler) - 100
20 Gargoyles - 120
Biovore - 40
Biovore - 40
Biovore - 40
Also any list with biovores should probably have a few spore mines handy for misses.
To purchase up to this list, I would make the following suggestion:
Regen at low point evels is much better and you need that Tervigon to last the game. If you get lucky with a bit of onsluaght catalyst the list should do really well at 1000 ... three MCs are just hard to deal with at that level.
I think you suggestion is ok, but it is very slow, and requires several models that would dictate future strategy. I think that the key to a Tyranids list is deciding fast nids (flyers + Mawlocs) or slow nids (CFexes, Exocrines, Maybe TFexes). I'll give you an example of each at 1850 (these examples aren't optimized versions), and then give you a 1000 pts list that mainly focuses on units useful for both, that way you could get started without having to determine an overall direction for your list.
Fast Nids (1850)
Spoiler:
Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL Devourer, Hive Commander) - 250
Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL Devourer) - 230
Zoanthrope -50
Venomthrope -45
Zoanthrope - 50
3 Tyranids Warriors (scything Talons on each with 2 Devourers and 1 Barbed Strangler) - 100
25 TGaunts (10 Spinefist, 15 Devourer) - 160
11 HGaunts - 55
20 Gargoyles - 120 (Could be replaced with Raveners)
Crone - 155 (Could be replaced with 2nd Harpy)
Harpy (HVC) - 140 (Could be replaced with 2nd Crone)
3 Biovores - 120
Mawloc - 140
Mawloc - 140
Bastion + Comms Relay - 95
Slow Nids (1850)
Spoiler:
Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL Devourer) - 230
Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL Devourer) - 230
2 Zoanthrope -100 (Could be Replaced with Hive Guard)
2 Venomthrope -90
Zoanthrope - 50
3 Tyranids Warriors (scything Talons on each with 2 Devourers and 1 Barbed Strangler) - 100
10 HGaunts - 50
10 HGaunts - 50
20 Gargoyles - 120
3 Biovores - 120
3 Carnifexes (3 Adrenal glands, 1 with 2 Scything Talons, 2 with 2 TL Devourers) - 465
Exocrine - 170 (Could be replaced with TFex)
Bastion - 75 (Could be replaced with Aegis)
Specialty units that you should avoid unless building a specialty list:
Spoiler:
Old One-Eye
Deathleaper
Swarmlord
Haruspex (Same kit as Exocrine)
Lictor
Pyrovore
Genesteelers
Ripper Swarms
Sky Slasher Swarms
Trygon (Same kit as Mawloc)
Trygon Prime (Same kit as Mawloc)
Unique units that you shouldn't buy until you know your strategy:
Spoiler:
TGaunts with Devourers aka Devilgaunts
Crone
Harpy
Mawloc
Carnifex
Exocrine
TFex
Tervigon
Units you will likely need no matter what direction you go:
Spoiler:
2 Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL Devouers). I would Magnetize the Devourers, because at time you might want to run a BS + LW 1 - 3 Venomthrope
2 - 4 Zoanthropes
3 Warriors (1 Barbed Strangler)
10 - 40 HGaunts
10 - 40 TGaunts (Spinefist is my preference, but Flesborers are ok)
20 - 40 Gargoyles
3 Biovores
Bastion
So I think a good 1000 point list might look like this:
Spoiler:
Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL Devourer) - 230
Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL Devourer) - 230
Zoanthrope -50
Venomthrope -45
13 HGaunts - 65
10 TGaunts - 40
3 Tyranids Warriors (scything Talons on each with 2 Devourers and 1 Barbed Strangler) - 100
20 Gargoyles - 120
Biovore - 40
Biovore - 40
Biovore - 40
Also any list with biovores should probably have a few spore mines handy for misses.
To purchase up to this list, I would make the following suggestion:
Eldercaveman wrote: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/575587.page
And if you don't like the Biovore model, convert your own
Great tip. I'm bookmarking that for later. The idea of spending $41 for 1 finecast biovore is not very appealing. Much rather spend $70 for 3 plastic conversions.
6000 pts
2000 pts
2500 pts
3000 pts
