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You act like all I do is give preferred enemy.

Swarmy has a 50% chance of getting every power on the table. Which means a higher chance of getting Catalyst, Onslaught, and Paroxysm...and you can use them all in a turn.

The beauty in the buffs is choice. If I took two tyrannos every day I'd run into armies that I didn't need them for. Instead I can just PE a tyranno for a turn and make sure he hits...the payout on this tends to be better with Exos but you see what I mean....now as I get closer to the enemy I switch PE to my hormagaunts...boom...now the horms are making money.

I don't think you're factoring in all the points you save on things like taking horms bare and just putting PE on them...or Warp Blasting Zoeys that reroll to wound when you need some 3+ dead this turn.

I am a player of utility. I like to have the right tool for the job rather than just one giant hammer.

Well, I didn't act like all he does is give preferred enemy. I made quite a list of all the differences between Tyrants and Swarmy.

I am a player of utility. I like to have the right tool for the job rather than just one giant hammer.

This makes sense. Swarmlord can do a bit of everything, and you have a lot to expect for 300 points. He does have a lot of utility - doesn't make anything said about him being overpriced inaccurate. I can see the attraction and the reason for taking him, I just can't justify the points.

 SHUPPET wrote:

I am a player of utility. I like to have the right tool for the job rather than just one giant hammer.

This makes sense. Swarmlord can do a bit of everything, and you have a lot to expect for 300 points. He does have a lot of utility - doesn't make anything said about him being overpriced inaccurate. I can see the attraction and the reason for taking him, I just can't justify the points.

Indeed, point for point he's actually quite impossible to compare to a standard Hive Tyrant due to consistent and hopefully properly timed buffs that you're slinging back and forth. a 50% chance of FnP on him is enough for me. And being a walkrant you're much more likely to get use out of that paroxysm.

The Swarmlord would need to be a lot more impressive for me to not be using that slot for a Flyrant in anything but a low-comp game.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
The Swarmlord would need to be a lot more impressive for me to not be using that slot for a Flyrant in anything but a low-comp game.

To each their own.

I personally find my games being harder to win as I spend the points on a second Flyrant...but I have been playing a lot of games without any of them.

If only his invuln applied to shooting attacks, he'd be worth the points.

 xttz wrote:
If only his invuln applied to shooting attacks, he'd be worth the points.

Between a Venom and FnP...I've never had a problem keeping him alive. Between a tervigon, zoeys, a flyrant, and his powers you have 7 rolls.

Just make sure you roll them in order for maximum efficiency.

Zoeys
Tervigon
Flyrant
Swarmy

 ductvader wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
The Swarmlord would need to be a lot more impressive for me to not be using that slot for a Flyrant in anything but a low-comp game.

To each their own.

I personally find my games being harder to win as I spend the points on a second Flyrant...but I have been playing a lot of games without any of them.

I've yet to do any 1750+ points games since the dataslate came out, but my plan is to run swarmy along 2 flyrants using a skyblight formation. As i have a swarmlord, a walking hive tyrant, and 2 flying hive tyrants, i really don't want to buy another hive tyrant kit for another flyrant.

Swarmlord is expensive. He's not fast at all - being on foot. But he's an excellent support psyker, throwing out PE or FC when and where necessary --- but the most important thing he does is play goalie to your home objectives. If you keep him in the vicinity of your objectives on your side of the table, the enemy wont' have much recourse but to come to you if they want to claim them for themselves (or even contest). Once they're there, swarmlord earns his keep by promptly shutting them down via CC (most of the time -- I think he still loses combat on average dice to a Bloodthirster).

If you can control the center of the board with Tyranids, you've most likely already won the game.

90% of my deployment time is spent figuring out the best angle to approach and defend the center from.

 ductvader wrote:

 xttz wrote:
If only his invuln applied to shooting attacks, he'd be worth the points.

Between a Venom and FnP...I've never had a problem keeping him alive. Between a tervigon, zoeys, a flyrant, and his powers you have 7 rolls.

Just make sure you roll them in order for maximum efficiency.

Zoeys
Tervigon
Flyrant
Swarmy

Where I am still shaky, is with a Rupture Cannon TFex, Tervigon, Zoeys, and Swarmlord with Tyrant Guard, how are you able to put out enough damage as you close with your opponent. It would seem that your army is very slow, and has very few shots. If I were playing on a 24" table, such an army would seem viable. But on a 48" table, you've got a long time before you can bring your assaultyness to bear.

I'm guessing your meta is very mech heavy. If I lined up against mech IG, this army would probably smash face, but in other situations, it seems not viable. I would still like to see the full list, and I will even probably give it a game test, because I suspect a level of synergy that is not apparent to me on paper.

HQ
-The Swarmlord
-2 Tyrant Guard Brood
-Hive Tyrant (TL Devourers With Brainleech Worms(2), Wings)

Troops
-Tervigon
-30 Termagant Brood
-3 Tyranid Warrior Brood (Barbed Strangler)
-28 Hormagaunt Brood

Elites
-2 Zoanthrope Brood
-Venomthrope Brood

Heavy Support
-2 Carnifex Brood (TL Devourers With Brainleech Worms, Stranglethorn Cannon)
-Exocrine
-Tyrannofex (Rupture Cannon, Cluster Spines, Shreddershard Beetles)

2000/2000



The most important aspect here is to deploy so that Swarmy and the Exo are more difficult to wound than the fexes...they can take the hits.

Hormagaunts tend to provide a flank with the Flyrant but maintaining Swarmy as an axis for buffs.

I'm looking into adding the Artillery formation in here.

You'd also be surprised how often I take down fliers with that Exo.


As for my meta...it's mostly daemons, chaos marines, and marines with a little tau and necrons sprinkled in.

 ductvader wrote:
HQ

Spoiler:

-The Swarmlord
-2 Tyrant Guard Brood
-Hive Tyrant (TL Devourers With Brainleech Worms(2), Wings)

Troops
-Tervigon
-30 Termagant Brood
-3 Tyranid Warrior Brood (Barbed Strangler)
-28 Hormagaunt Brood

Elites
-2 Zoanthrope Brood
-Venomthrope Brood

Heavy Support
-2 Carnifex Brood (TL Devourers With Brainleech Worms, Stranglethorn Cannon)
-Exocrine
-Tyrannofex (Rupture Cannon, Cluster Spines, Shreddershard Beetles)

2000/2000

The most important aspect here is to deploy so that Swarmy and the Exo are more difficult to wound than the fexes...they can take the hits.

You Want the carnifexes to tank wounds for Swarmy and the Exocrine?

Why are the zoanthropes together in one brood instead of broods of 1?

It is interesting to outflank HGaunts instead of DevilGaunts.

I assume that the TFex is you main killer of mech, and your exocrine is you main killer of meq. Do you Fexes usually survive long enough to do much damage?

Does your Venom survive several turns, or is he usually first blood?

If you play at 2K, do other run double FOC?

tag8833 wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
HQ

Spoiler:

-The Swarmlord
-2 Tyrant Guard Brood
-Hive Tyrant (TL Devourers With Brainleech Worms(2), Wings)

Troops
-Tervigon
-30 Termagant Brood
-3 Tyranid Warrior Brood (Barbed Strangler)
-28 Hormagaunt Brood

Elites
-2 Zoanthrope Brood
-Venomthrope Brood

Heavy Support
-2 Carnifex Brood (TL Devourers With Brainleech Worms, Stranglethorn Cannon)
-Exocrine
-Tyrannofex (Rupture Cannon, Cluster Spines, Shreddershard Beetles)

2000/2000

The most important aspect here is to deploy so that Swarmy and the Exo are more difficult to wound than the fexes...they can take the hits.

You Want the carnifexes to tank wounds for Swarmy and the Exocrine?

Why are the zoanthropes together in one brood instead of broods of 1?

It is interesting to outflank HGaunts instead of DevilGaunts.

I assume that the TFex is you main killer of mech, and your exocrine is you main killer of meq. Do you Fexes usually survive long enough to do much damage?

Does your Venom survive several turns, or is he usually first blood?

If you play at 2K, do other run double FOC?

Zoeys are together because I am fine on synapse and this way they gain more from applied buffs.

Mech? Pretty much everything but the termagants and venomthrope can kill mech...the Stranglethorns Cannons are one of my favorite parts of the list. Most opponents have a T3, a 4+ sv or worse with Ld8 or worse...stranglethorns are perfect.

I'd say that my Venomthrope dies in about 1/3 of my games and usually in turn two...there's always somewhere to hide him.

Sometimes...usually dual force org is pretty meh...I only use it in my Eldar list to get a 4th Heavy in.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Yeah good point. So basically he is the third most overpriced unit in the dex, after Pyrovores and then Rippers.

Know what he needed to help that high cost?

Psychic Hood.

A nice level 3 Psycher that could defend the swarm by deflecting psychic stuff on a 4+?

Handy, dangit.

But no.

*grump*

Wakshaani wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Yeah good point. So basically he is the third most overpriced unit in the dex, after Pyrovores and then Rippers.

Know what he needed to help that high cost?

Psychic Hood.

A nice level 3 Psycher that could defend the swarm by deflecting psychic stuff on a 4+?

Handy, dangit.

But no.

*grump*

Well...most maledictions/witchfires occur within 24"...which generally means they're danger close and bound to die next turn.

Which consequently is why I like Swarmy's survivability...means you can get in that 24" and survive a turn to maledict. Paroxysm is my favorite power to sling around.

 ductvader wrote:
Zoeys are together because I am fine on synapse and this way they gain more from applied buffs.

How often do you find yourself applying buffs to them? I really don't think it would be often enough to be worth missing out on a second roll on the discipline and second power each turn.

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
Zoeys are together because I am fine on synapse and this way they gain more from applied buffs.

How often do you find yourself applying buffs to them? I really don't think it would be often enough to be worth missing out on a second roll on the discipline and second power each turn.

Often enough that it in conjunction with the extra killpoint matters to me...though I will admit that the squad of two is a remnant from when I had a third elite (Hive Guard) in the list.

I'm not really opposed to switching it up, but thus far I've seen no need.

I'm tempted to swap out a T6 5W 3+ Exocrine for a T6 6W 2+ Tyrannofex.

Regeneration does sound like a good plan on this beast. Worth it?

Razerous wrote:
I'm tempted to swap out a T6 5W 3+ Exocrine for a T6 6W 2+ Tyrannofex.

Regeneration does sound like a good plan on this beast. Worth it?

It's the only model I'd recommend it on...but that's going to come down to your own playstyle. It takes a special balance of rampaging tyrrano and hesitant healing beast to get the points out of regen.

 ductvader wrote:

Razerous wrote:
I'm tempted to swap out a T6 5W 3+ Exocrine for a T6 6W 2+ Tyrannofex.

Regeneration does sound like a good plan on this beast. Worth it?

It's the only model I'd recommend it on...but that's going to come down to your own playstyle. It takes a special balance of rampaging tyrrano and hesitant healing beast to get the points out of regen.

I know its all about context. But it feels like whilst an Exo can do more damage (vs elite infantry) at better range, the Tyranno can do damage more reliably at shorter range, whilst being much much more survivable.

They're very different...the Exo is for the player who likes to hold that 18-24" range for a turn or two.

The tyranno is for the brawlers.

Interesting list. At first glance it seems to be a complete mess, between Flyrant + outflanking horms yet a bunch of random walking gak including the Swarmlord, Carnifexes & Warriors. Then I remembered your M.O. about preferring a Swiss Army knife to a cleaver, and it makes a lot more sense. While a bunch of your army might not be keeping pace with the front runners, you have rupture cannon PE shots threatening anything the Hormagaunts do not, who are there to do the absolute definition of tarpitting for the core of your army. So much of this army can be flicked the way you want it on a game per game basis. Outflank 30 hormies to eat shots/run at something and still hold their own in combat, while flyrant hits hard and fast at something needed gone. other games Outflank Tervis for aggressive scoring + MC hit, with 3x 36" pinning blasts to help out (either way), on units that only get more threatening the closer they are able to push. Really high chance of rolling onslaught to get a PE exocrine or carnifex shots into range a turn quicker. Single veno to mitigate at least it's 45 pts of damage, likely supported by a Catalyst roll or two. Full control over attempted tar pitting of t-fex/exocrine thanks to carnies/warrior bodyguards. So much more on the fly customization.

I won't say its an amazing list, but I certainly won't say its a bad one. I will definitely say that it's pretty unique but perfectly suits the style you describe yourself as preferring. While everything can be very tailored to match up I'm tactics and deployment, The list will feel unlucky rolls pretty hard especially when you are relying on a specific unit.I will make the suggestions of splitting the zoeys up or just possibly adding another squad, even better chance of more onslaught/catalyst is important, and helps your chances of having at least 1 unit of zoeys still alive when you need them. Forget KPs and Fnp, splitting them up will be well worth it. Would give devoured to at least half termagant squad and consider making them primary out flankers, while hormagants will still have their times, termites shoot the turn they are in, almost just as disposable and still amazing at dragging what you need into an unwanted combat.

Just thoughts. Cool list regardless.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Interesting list. At first glance it seems to be a complete mess

I completely agree.

Excuse my spelling/gramma/weird structuring. It's a large post and I'm fighting hard against iPad autocorrect.

 ductvader wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
HQ

Spoiler:

-The Swarmlord
-2 Tyrant Guard Brood
-Hive Tyrant (TL Devourers With Brainleech Worms(2), Wings)

Troops
-Tervigon
-30 Termagant Brood
-3 Tyranid Warrior Brood (Barbed Strangler)
-28 Hormagaunt Brood

Elites
-2 Zoanthrope Brood
-Venomthrope Brood

Heavy Support
-2 Carnifex Brood (TL Devourers With Brainleech Worms, Stranglethorn Cannon)
-Exocrine
-Tyrannofex (Rupture Cannon, Cluster Spines, Shreddershard Beetles)

2000/2000

The most important aspect here is to deploy so that Swarmy and the Exo are more difficult to wound than the fexes...they can take the hits.

You Want the carnifexes to tank wounds for Swarmy and the Exocrine?

Why are the zoanthropes together in one brood instead of broods of 1?

It is interesting to outflank HGaunts instead of DevilGaunts.

I assume that the TFex is you main killer of mech, and your exocrine is you main killer of meq. Do you Fexes usually survive long enough to do much damage?

Does your Venom survive several turns, or is he usually first blood?

If you play at 2K, do other run double FOC?

Zoeys are together because I am fine on synapse and this way they gain more from applied buffs.

Mech? Pretty much everything but the termagants and venomthrope can kill mech...the Stranglethorns Cannons are one of my favorite parts of the list. Most opponents have a T3, a 4+ sv or worse with Ld8 or worse...stranglethorns are perfect.

I'd say that my Venomthrope dies in about 1/3 of my games and usually in turn two...there's always somewhere to hide him.

Sometimes...usually dual force org is pretty meh...I only use it in my Eldar list to get a 4th Heavy in.

Have you intentionally rejected the Venom in a box strategy? Drop 1 Zoey+5 HGaunts, and you have yourself a bastion that will keep you Venom alive, and block LOS to a portion of your army for deployment.

You could even put your Exocrine on the roof for a 2+ cover, and a hilarious look on your opponent's face.


As I ruminated about this list, I think it does have a lot of value overall. My instinct is still telling me that Swarmy + Tyrant guard are not an efficient use of points, but I definitely want to give it a shot in a game to see. I think you've made the most compelling argument for a Rupture Cannon tfex I've seen in the new codex.

I've been playing the Firestorm Redoubt too much lately...kind of done with Forts for a while...and I commonly use those Zoey's for firepower...not just buffing.

tag8833 wrote:
As I ruminated about this list, I think it does have a lot of value overall. My instinct is still telling me that Swarmy + Tyrant guard are not an efficient use of points, but I definitely want to give it a shot in a game to see. I think you've made the most compelling argument for a Rupture Cannon tfex I've seen in the new codex.

Thank you...as you'll continue to see, I like to go against the grain...but I also like to win.

Playing that list right is going to take some time...its oddly defensive.

 ductvader wrote:
I've been playing the Firestorm Redoubt too much lately...kind of done with Forts for a while...and I commonly use those Zoey's for firepower...not just buffing.

tag8833 wrote:
As I ruminated about this list, I think it does have a lot of value overall. My instinct is still telling me that Swarmy + Tyrant guard are not an efficient use of points, but I definitely want to give it a shot in a game to see. I think you've made the most compelling argument for a Rupture Cannon tfex I've seen in the new codex.

Thank you...as you'll continue to see, I like to go against the grain...but I also like to win.

That is why I'm a groupie/stalker. Successful outside the box thinking.

From an outsider's perspective (no old codex experience), I don't fully understand the hate for the Swarmlord. He's slow, but his range of effect (mostly indirect buffing) is pretty good through his psykic powers and big Synapse range, and he's pretty close to the last word in close combat in the last couple (objective grabbing) turns. Maybe I like him because he lets you put a finger on the scale wherever you really need it in a given turn.

The way I see it, his unit occupies the middle of the board, and can hand out buffs and Synapse to the whole middle, damn near half the board if you use the Primaris power. This provides Synapse to your objective holders and your front line shock troops. After three turns, his unit has traveled up to about 28" from their starting point (3 moves + 3 runs), which should put you in position to be somewhere important in the last 2-3 turns. He's too slow to react, but Nids aren't an army that's short on speed.

Then again, what do I know.

Razerous wrote:
I'm tempted to swap out a T6 5W 3+ Exocrine for a T6 6W 2+ Tyrannofex.

Regeneration does sound like a good plan on this beast. Worth it?

In low point games its really good. In higher point games I have found its not so good, I want to spend those points else where, and most folks have the means to kill it in one go, if they really want to. So the Regen doesn't get a chance to provide value.

In low point games it can destroy morale, people just stop shooting at the thing. (which makes Regen even more effective )

PrinceRaven wrote:You should tell them to make it fair(ish) and ban allies as well. A tournament that lets Taudar in but bans Deathleaper Assassin Brood is a tournament that needs to rethink its priorities.

Agreed. I advocate disassociation from organized events that do not concern themselves with fairness.

pinecone77 wrote:

Razerous wrote:
I'm tempted to swap out a T6 5W 3+ Exocrine for a T6 6W 2+ Tyrannofex.

Regeneration does sound like a good plan on this beast. Worth it?

In low point games its really good. In higher point games I have found its not so good, I want to spend those points else where, and most folks have the means to kill it in one go, if they really want to. So the Regen doesn't get a chance to provide value.

In low point games it can destroy morale, people just stop shooting at the thing. (which makes Regen even more effective )

At higher point values just give yourself 6 or more chances at rolling Catalyst like I did