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I love the solofex, nothing's worse than having a unit of Carnifices fail IB and do nothing for the turn on a 1-3.

 ductvader wrote:
Sidenote for the Horde: I've yet to be able to use my Fexe's' CC attacks...between shotting and Hammer of Wrath I've won every combat I've been in with them before I2.

Not a bad problem to have, but in some ways it makes me sad.

I took a squad of 3 dakkafexes into assault against draigo and 10 Paladins (7 by the time they arrived). I also had a Walkrant and 2 tyrant guard, 6 TGaunts, and 20 or so HGaunts in that combat. The Fexes did a lot of attacks, but didn't score many hits. WS 3 is really a problem for a CC powerhouse. Also no AP on HOW meant that the Paladins shrugged it off. It wasn't exactly a great decisions, I think they killed 1 Paladin before being force weaponed to death at the rate of 1 per turn. The HGaunts did better than the CFexes in that combat. I think that I've only managed to bring Cfexes into assault 4 times. They are relatively fragile, and tend to die before they make it there. My opponents know the HOW is death to vehicles, and all vehicles are faster than CFexes so they just run away from them. Because of their lack of speed, range, and survivability, I've mainly given up on Carnifexes.

They're by no means a point-and-click unit - you can't just march them across the table and get into CC. I actually avoid CC with my dakkafexes normally.

But they're definitely not fragile, especially in broods of 3. Fex1 takes some wounds, shoot him to the back, bring a different fex forward. Repeat. And if you have the points, regen on all of them lets you do this dance for much longer.

With my Stranglethorn/Devourer loadout they tend to make combat around turn 3/4...and they rarely die as they keep themselves low priority.

In my most recent games they've been mostly serving as an outflank/deepstrike deterrent/punishment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:
But they're definitely not fragile, especially in broods of 3. Fex1 takes some wounds, shoot him to the back, bring a different fex forward. Repeat. And if you have the points, regen on all of them lets you do this dance for much longer.

Indeed...the only times I ever worry about losing my fexes is if I am ever forced to make a movement into the open against massed ranged AP3-

tag8833 wrote:
My opponents know the HOW is death to vehicles, and all vehicles are faster than CFexes so they just run away from them. Because of their lack of speed, range, and survivability, I've mainly given up on Carnifexes.

Just split the Fexes into units of one or two, and cover more of the board. A single ~500pt unit is really easy to avoid, but three individual MCs (each with an 18" threat range) aren't. They should be able to cover any appropriate choke points, assuming there is enough terrain. Any vehicles not hugging the back edge of the table will be caught. Don't forget Adrenal Glands if you want to make it into melee, Fleet can make all the difference.

As for survivability, the Carnifexes are probably getting focused down because they're the biggest threat. The simplest solution there is to introduce a bigger, tougher threat that has be dealt with. An acid T-Fex would be top choice here. Put it in front and let it absorb damage, or at least force your opponent to divide damage.

So, to be honest I haven't even tried the Haruspex...even in proxy...

So...if you had to put one in your army...how would you play it?

ductvader wrote:Sidenote for the Horde: I've yet to be able to use my Fexe's' CC attacks...between shotting and Hammer of Wrath I've won every combat I've been in with them before I2.

Not a bad problem to have, but in some ways it makes me sad.

Duct, that is blasphemy. Make sure you inform your opponent to bring larger units.

rigeld2 wrote:They're by no means a point-and-click unit - you can't just march them across the table and get into CC. I actually avoid CC with my dakkafexes normally.

But they're definitely not fragile, especially in broods of 3. Fex1 takes some wounds, shoot him to the back, bring a different fex forward. Repeat. And if you have the points, regen on all of them lets you do this dance for much longer.

I think that is more of a situation depending on your local meta. Take mine for example. In every game I played except one, my Carnifexes made it into combat. The one time that they didn't, one Carnifex died at just over charge range to a demolisher cannon, and the other one promptly fell silent for a moment of remembrance for its fallen brother before promptly moving up and killing the 2 demolisher tanks.

 ductvader wrote:
So, to be honest I haven't even tried the Haruspex...even in proxy...

So...if you had to put one in your army...how would you play it?

Give it Adrenal Glands and charge it right at your opponent to draw fire. It will probably die immediately, but that's what it's best at.

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

ductvader wrote:Sidenote for the Horde: I've yet to be able to use my Fexe's' CC attacks...between shotting and Hammer of Wrath I've won every combat I've been in with them before I2.

Not a bad problem to have, but in some ways it makes me sad.

Duct, that is blasphemy. Make sure you inform your opponent to bring larger units.

Will Do!

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:They're by no means a point-and-click unit - you can't just march them across the table and get into CC. I actually avoid CC with my dakkafexes normally.

But they're definitely not fragile, especially in broods of 3. Fex1 takes some wounds, shoot him to the back, bring a different fex forward. Repeat. And if you have the points, regen on all of them lets you do this dance for much longer.

I think that is more of a situation depending on your local meta. Take mine for example. In every game I played except one, my Carnifexes made it into combat. The one time that they didn't, one Carnifex died at just over charge range to a demolisher cannon, and the other one promptly fell silent for a moment of remembrance for its fallen brother before promptly moving up and killing the 2 demolisher tanks.

I love how much d@mn character these giant meat trains can have in a game.

omerakk wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:
Here is my "current" version of "Endless Tunnel Assault" I came up with while eating breakfast...


HQ: Winged asassain: Wings, LW/BS, Toxic, Thorax swarm, Brain leeches 255 (usually Warlord, I play this guy conservitive and reactive, so he tends to stay alive)
Winged Dakka'rant 230

Warriors (x3): Rending claws x2, Deathspitters x2, Cannon 120
Warriors: as above 120

Trygon Prime 230
Trygon Prime 230
Mawloc 140

1325 points...

Endless Swarm:
Hormigants x 15, (x3) 225
Spinegaunts x 15, (x3) 180 (Apparently the US version is "not right", and it should be 3x here. I disagree, because the Formation had exactly 6 troops, and now has 7, and that strikes me as something somebody with no knowlage of the Codex would do, thinking Warriors are Elites....)
Warriors: see above 120

Total: 525 525+1325=1850 7 Synapse, 2 FMC, 2 Big Wormeys, 1 Mawloc (5 MC's of all types) 9 Troops, 6 of which can pop back to life (4+) and two tunnels for assaulting... a fair challenge at 1850 I think...

Almost no upgrades, other than the Winged Asassain...but a Winnable force to my eye...

Bump, man, I could not search this...I'd descibe it as "not optimal" for finding old posts


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Razerous wrote:
Nope... searching that only highlights your last post?

Sorry I could not search it out either...I also posted a couple in Army list...If you can find them...

I love what you've done there! I was trying to do a similar thing awhile back but with no luck. Here is a revised 2000 list I've been working on now that the third dataslate is out:

Dakka Flyrant
Dakka Flyrant

3 Warriors
3 Ripper Swarms

Trygon Prime
Mawloc
Mawloc

Wrecker Node Formation:
3 Warriors
1 Carnifex
1 Carnifex
1 Carnifex

Endless Swarm Formation:
3 Warriors
10 Termagaunts
10 Termagaunts
10 Termagaunts
15 Hormagaunts
15 Hormagaunts
14 Hormagaunts

1999 points

10 Troops, 6 that can respawn
6 Synapse
8 MC's with 2 FMC's
94 Models in 18 units

As strong as the Skyblight formations kicking around? Probably not... but it still looks viable enough to shake things up.

Thoughts?

Looks good, you only have one tunnel, so proper placement is critical (and you may be forced to choose between optimal use of the Big Wormey, and wanting to place the tunnel...)

Synapse looks "OK". at high point levels Synapse hunting is a viable strategy, and a swarmy list is extra vulnrible to it. As long as you can place the warriors in good cover, all is well. (me? I'd find room for some Zoeys, and/or a second Wormy )

The main strength looks to be the wrecker node, if you could fit in a Veno, it would likely make you happy you did...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm going over the relevant rules and I can't see anything that would prevent you using the Guard from the Tyrant Node formation with a different HT. The rules don't force you to use them as one unit.

It might be a bit of a niche thing, but this could be useful for keeping the HT from the Node formation alone as a backfield 18" synapse (armed with an HVC or STC). You could then assign the Tyrant Guard to a HT or even Swarmlord in your primary detachment. That makes it easier to deny Slay the Warlord.

 xttz wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
My opponents know the HOW is death to vehicles, and all vehicles are faster than CFexes so they just run away from them. Because of their lack of speed, range, and survivability, I've mainly given up on Carnifexes.

Just split the Fexes into units of one or two, and cover more of the board. A single ~500pt unit is really easy to avoid, but three individual MCs (each with an 18" threat range) aren't. They should be able to cover any appropriate choke points, assuming there is enough terrain. Any vehicles not hugging the back edge of the table will be caught. Don't forget Adrenal Glands if you want to make it into melee, Fleet can make all the difference.

As for survivability, the Carnifexes are probably getting focused down because they're the biggest threat. The simplest solution there is to introduce a bigger, tougher threat that has be dealt with. An acid T-Fex would be top choice here. Put it in front and let it absorb damage, or at least force your opponent to divide damage.

I've never run Carnifexes without a full FOC Heavy support section. Most of the time that includes an Acid Tfex. When it doesn't, then there is at least one Exocrine in there. The CFexes get focused on because they are easier to kill than the Tfex, and more valuable than the gaunts / warriors. I don't think I've ever lost a TFex in a game. Nobody ever shoots at a TFex. Sometimes they assault it, but usually that just tarpits it. Maybe using the new formations I could split the Cfexes up a bit, but I'm still dubious about their usefulness compared to Exocrines, TFexes, Mawlocs, or Biovores. Even the Trygon / Trygon prime is more appealing because it has mobility thanks to deep strike. I don't know what sort of opponents you face that would shoot at a TFex before a Carnifex. I sure as hell wouldn't.

If I allow that I might have been using them wrong, and that I need to spam them in single model squads for them to be effective, would a list like this be a fair test of Carnifex viability?

Why exactly wouldn't TFexes, Exocrines or Crones be a better use of 450 points?

I run Carnies in 2 x units of 2 and they have amazing damage output. I would agree that they need either FnP and/or +2 cover for survivability though.

You also need to make sure you do the wound dance (which I constantly forget)

Carnies with FNP and a 5+ cover and Regen and wound dancing are awesomely survivable.

All valid points Pinecone, I will adjust the list with that in mind.

In the mean time, I have revamped the Old One Eye stupidity list! 2000 points:

HQ
Old One Eye

Elite
Haruspex with regen
Venomthrope
Venomthrope

Troops
3 warriors
3 warriors
3 warriors

Heavy
Dakkafex
Dakkafex

Wrecker Node Formation
3 warriors
carnifex
carnifex
carnifex

Wrecker Node Formation
3 warriors
carnifex
carnifex
carnifex

10 MC's
5 troops
5 synapse
17 units
30 points to spare

So terrible it makes me giggle with delight! And yes, I know the Haruspex is considered terrible and I could have just grabbed another dakkafex... but damn it! I want to use this model so bad!

rigeld2 wrote:
Carnies with FNP and a 5+ cover and Regen and wound dancing are awesomely survivable.

I think Regen is too expensive and unreliable.

bodazoka wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Carnies with FNP and a 5+ cover and Regen and wound dancing are awesomely survivable.

I think Regen is too expensive and unreliable.

I've never seen a brood of Carnifexes take fire and not lose at least one whole fex. Regen seems like a 30 point waste, and wound dancing only works if they take wounds without dying, which they don't. A couple weeks back I had a brood of 3 carnifexes 2 of which had 2+ cover, and 1 with 3+ cover, and they all died to Tau's opening salvo. I didn't have a chance to give them FNP, because they were dead before I took my first turn. Maybe if Carnifexes were characters and could Look out Sir, then regen would be viable.

Also, re FNP. I would gladly pay for that upgrade. Where do I get it? Because counting on catalyst is a bad bet. I rolled for 24 psychic powers over 4 games this weekend and only rolled catalyst once, When I do get so fortunate as to roll catalyst, I always use it on my flyrants first, because they are more valuable. I would only use it on my carnifexes if my flyrants were both covered.

tag8833 wrote:

bodazoka wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Carnies with FNP and a 5+ cover and Regen and wound dancing are awesomely survivable.

I think Regen is too expensive and unreliable.

I've never seen a brood of Carnifexes take fire and not lose at least one whole fex. Regen seems like a 30 point waste, and wound dancing only works if they take wounds without dying, which they don't. A couple weeks back I had a brood of 3 carnifexes 2 of which had 2+ cover, and 1 with 3+ cover, and they all died to Tau's opening salvo. I didn't have a chance to give them FNP, because they were dead before I took my first turn. Maybe if Carnifexes were characters and could Look out Sir, then regen would be viable.

Also, re FNP. I would gladly pay for that upgrade. Where do I get it? Because counting on catalyst is a bad bet. I rolled for 24 psychic powers over 4 games this weekend and only rolled catalyst once, When I do get so fortunate as to roll catalyst, I always use it on my flyrants first, because they are more valuable. I would only use it on my carnifexes if my flyrants were both covered.

A few weeks ago you rolled poorly for your armour saves? that doesn't mean your T6 4 x wound 3+ armour save model is paper. The odds for all of them to die in one volley before moving is something like being shot at by 300 fire warriors after the pathfinders have hit you and marked you enough times to remove your 2+ cover save. The odds of your not rolling catalyst also just points to your dice as being crap.

Just as a side note.. whilst it sucks you lost the 3 x carnies in the first volley it would of meant your flyrant's survived a turn without being shot at and then proceeded to move 24" and wreck FW face! as they usually do.

Agree with regen, It costs too much to gain a wound or two back per battle on 1 x carnifex.

Tournament this weekend saw me lose 2 Carnifexes total over 3 games.

I brought models for a 1500 point tournament and it was actually 1850 so I threw some random upgrades and a Tyrannofex I wasn't finished painting in.

Carnifexes take fire all the time without losing a whole one - facing both Eldar and Necrons (no Tau this weekend) - both extremely shooty armies - took multiple shooting phases to kill one, so Regen paid off. It being a 50% chance to get a wound back is nice - it's more consistent.

rigeld2 wrote:
Tournament this weekend saw me lose 2 Carnifexes total over 3 games.

I brought models for a 1500 point tournament and it was actually 1850 so I threw some random upgrades and a Tyrannofex I wasn't finished painting in.

Carnifexes take fire all the time without losing a whole one - facing both Eldar and Necrons (no Tau this weekend) - both extremely shooty armies - took multiple shooting phases to kill one, so Regen paid off. It being a 50% chance to get a wound back is nice - it's more consistent.

Depends on loadout. A CC tooled version I agree will often be ignored for the first few turns as there are more immediate threats. A brood of dakka fexes though I would be surprised to see them ever get more than one round of shooting off. A 4 wound model with only a 3+ armour save should be killable in a round especially at 1,850.

With venomthropes are good placement it might work... Still, 30 points is a lot.

tag8833 wrote:
I've never seen a brood of Carnifexes take fire and not lose at least one whole fex. Regen seems like a 30 point waste, and wound dancing only works if they take wounds without dying, which they don't. A couple weeks back I had a brood of 3 carnifexes 2 of which had 2+ cover, and 1 with 3+ cover, and they all died to Tau's opening salvo. I didn't have a chance to give them FNP, because they were dead before I took my first turn. Maybe if Carnifexes were characters and could Look out Sir, then regen would be viable.

Also, re FNP. I would gladly pay for that upgrade. Where do I get it? Because counting on catalyst is a bad bet. I rolled for 24 psychic powers over 4 games this weekend and only rolled catalyst once, When I do get so fortunate as to roll catalyst, I always use it on my flyrants first, because they are more valuable. I would only use it on my carnifexes if my flyrants were both covered.

Man, you have some really bad dice. I'd forgo buying any extra Crones, Exocrines or T-Fexes and replace those first, because damn.

Out of interest, why did you choose to run all the Fexes with Devourer and STC? That's an odd combination, as the Stranglethorn will generally be wasted against armour or when snap-firing on flyers, and you have no shortage of other pinning / anti-infantry in your list. In this case I'd be running 2 Fexes in a brood each with double Devourers. This combo is very flexible and eat through some targets better than an Exocrine or T-Fex. Even if you don't get Catalyst, it's also a great use of Onslaught, and it's easier to share cover benefits from terrain and venoms.
I'd then use the final Fex as either a STC or HVC platform. With the Stranglethorn it's probably better to keep back a bit, there's no benefit in being in front here. An HVC-equipped Fex with Adrenals makes a pretty good tank hunter, especially for AV13/14. Even if you can't quite make a charge, the weapon can do some damage.

 xttz wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm going over the relevant rules and I can't see anything that would prevent you using the Guard from the Tyrant Node formation with a different HT. The rules don't force you to use them as one unit.

It might be a bit of a niche thing, but this could be useful for keeping the HT from the Node formation alone as a backfield 18" synapse (armed with an HVC or STC). You could then assign the Tyrant Guard to a HT or even Swarmlord in your primary detachment. That makes it easier to deny Slay the Warlord.

Can anyone see any uses for or issues with this?

 xttz wrote:
Out of interest, why did you choose to run all the Fexes with Devourer and STC? That's an odd combination, as the Stranglethorn will generally be wasted against armour or when snap-firing on flyers, and you have no shortage of other pinning / anti-infantry in your list.

Stranglefexes have a 42" threat range...that's huge for bugs! I love my fexes being able to do something 1-2 turns earlier than normal...sure...you can run...but without adrenals you're just going +3.5" a turn.

I use 4 of these guys consistently as they allow you to play the backfield for an extra turn or two if need be...and they're excellent at taking on units that can be dangerous to them within that 24" bubble.

Early game pinning is excellent as well...not to mention the amount of wounds you can put on units with those large blasts.

If you're consistently facing infantry with a few vehicle armies now and then...this is your loadout.

 ruminator wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Tournament this weekend saw me lose 2 Carnifexes total over 3 games.

I brought models for a 1500 point tournament and it was actually 1850 so I threw some random upgrades and a Tyrannofex I wasn't finished painting in.

Carnifexes take fire all the time without losing a whole one - facing both Eldar and Necrons (no Tau this weekend) - both extremely shooty armies - took multiple shooting phases to kill one, so Regen paid off. It being a 50% chance to get a wound back is nice - it's more consistent.

Depends on loadout. A CC tooled version I agree will often be ignored for the first few turns as there are more immediate threats. A brood of dakka fexes though I would be surprised to see them ever get more than one round of shooting off. A 4 wound model with only a 3+ armour save should be killable in a round especially at 1,850.

These were dakkafexes. My opponents were busy trying to deal with the two Flyrants, Tervigon, and Tyrannofex that were also threats.
And the Warriors that were scoring in the backfield.

 ductvader wrote:
Stranglefexes have a 42" threat range...

I use 4 of these guys consistently as they allow you to play the backfield for an extra turn or two if need be....

It's not the Stranglethorns I was questioning, so much as them being paired with Devourers. Aside from the strength they seem fairly incompatible, and I can't see the Devourers getting used too often in when left in the backfield. Do you run with Devourers too, and if so do they get used much?

I commonly use the Devourers yes.

It's a very powerful anti deepstrike loadout and as you play these fexes less aggressively, you're just going to be using those devourers a turn or two later than normal.

It also adds some redundancy for 24" threat range so a bad scatter doesn't muck things up.

I tried running the TL Deathspitters for the sake of pts, but it just didn't perform well enough to even justify the 5 pts...and running a single set of scytals feels like a waste.

Looking at the new formations I was trying to come up with something different. For reference I have been trying to make warriors work lately (love the models and it covers the synapse problems). So here is what I came up with as a first go at 1850

Prime
SC, BS, AG, TS

2 x single venoms

Warrior 1
6 warriors 5x RC 1x BS

Warrior 2
6 warriors 5x Deathspitters 1x BS

Wrecker Node
3x warriors w/ RC
3x naked fexes

Bioblast node
3 warriors 1x BS
2 fexes w/ HVC
1 fex w/ stranglethorn
tfex w/ shredder

I think this has potential with 6 carnis, a tfex, and 18 warriors led by a prime. No model with less than 3 wounds and cover provided by the venoms. Flyers would be a problem but most I think I can ignore and be fine. I would like to hear the opinions of those with greater experience with the nids. Thanks

In regards to the Carnifex conversation: I used 2 Dakkafexen in my last tournament. I brought a TAC list that included an Acid T-fex with Adrenals and 3 Biovores.

The board control you can achieve with these choices is crazy. Paired with a Venomthrope hiding behind a bastion/embarked in a bastion the Dakkafexen can patrol midboard and Acidfex can protect them from incoming assaults. Not to mention the range of the Biovores with the S6 potential barrage.

I will say that even though I only lost 1 Carnifex throughout the 5 games, all of my opponents HAD to avoid the middle 24" of the table. I also was fortunate to snag Onslaught a couple times which only increasingly creates a no-go zone. They are moderate flier defense, that if your Flyrants don't manage to down the enemy fliers, you can probably rely on you Dakkafex to do an additional HP of damage.

OTOH, I have revamped my list to include 2 Acidfexen with Adrenals because I found that more often than not my opponents we simply avoiding the Dakkafexen. Over the course of the 5 game tournament the T-fex only died twice and both times they managed to tarpit units. Being able to assault a large unit of Meq and tank almost all of the Krak gernades is incredibly useful.

While I know I'll regret the additional 24 TL S6 shots I don't like essentially "wasting" 300 points for the first 2 turns. Because of good positioning by my opponents, they were usually able to avoid them for this long. What I found, was that since my opponents knew they were too resilient with a 2+/3+ cover save they wanted to draw them out of the Shrouded bubble. I found myself falling into this trap because I felt that they were simply a waste of points just sitting midboard protecting a few objectives....

Again, 2 Dakkafexen have a significantly higher damage output that a Acid-fex (and more points) so I might find myself flopping back and forth between these depending on my meta changes....

For reference my previous 1850 tournament list:


My revamped list (which will be an easier play, not to mention quicker)

bodazoka wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
I've never seen a brood of Carnifexes take fire and not lose at least one whole fex. Regen seems like a 30 point waste, and wound dancing only works if they take wounds without dying, which they don't. A couple weeks back I had a brood of 3 carnifexes 2 of which had 2+ cover, and 1 with 3+ cover, and they all died to Tau's opening salvo. I didn't have a chance to give them FNP, because they were dead before I took my first turn. Maybe if Carnifexes were characters and could Look out Sir, then regen would be viable.

Also, re FNP. I would gladly pay for that upgrade. Where do I get it? Because counting on catalyst is a bad bet. I rolled for 24 psychic powers over 4 games this weekend and only rolled catalyst once, When I do get so fortunate as to roll catalyst, I always use it on my flyrants first, because they are more valuable. I would only use it on my carnifexes if my flyrants were both covered.

A few weeks ago you rolled poorly for your armour saves? that doesn't mean your T6 4 x wound 3+ armour save model is paper. The odds for all of them to die in one volley before moving is something like being shot at by 300 fire warriors after the pathfinders have hit you and marked you enough times to remove your 2+ cover save. The odds of your not rolling catalyst also just points to your dice as being crap.

Just as a side note.. whilst it sucks you lost the 3 x carnies in the first volley it would of meant your flyrant's survived a turn without being shot at and then proceeded to move 24" and wreck FW face! as they usually do.

Agree with regen, It costs too much to gain a wound or two back per battle on 1 x carnifex.

6 of the wounds were from seeker missiles from skyrays with Marker light buffs. No saves of any kind. At that point I just had to make around 27 of 32 saves from Broadsides, Riptides and Crises Suites with Buffmander to stay alive. I didn't do it, but that isn't bad rolls. That is typical rolls. I very, very rarely see firewarriors. Because they die unlike riptides, broadsides, and suites, the Tau players in my local meta almost never take them.

Sacrificing CFexes for flyrants isn't a good game plan either. CFexes are far to costly to be throwaways (I was running Dakkafexes with Adrenals, 165 a piece). Also Flyrants have the advantage of mobility allowing them to hold way back, and hide out of LOS. Carnifexes don't have that. They have to be deployed close to the edge of your deployment zone if you want them to have any sort of effect against a gun line army. If the army is coming to you, they could be deployed further back, and would have more survivability.

 xttz wrote:
Out of interest, why did you choose to run all the Fexes with Devourer and STC? That's an odd combination, as the Stranglethorn will generally be wasted against armour or when snap-firing on flyers, and you have no shortage of other pinning / anti-infantry in your list. In this case I'd be running 2 Fexes in a brood each with double Devourers. This combo is very flexible and eat through some targets better than an Exocrine or T-Fex. Even if you don't get Catalyst, it's also a great use of Onslaught, and it's easier to share cover benefits from terrain and venoms.
I'd then use the final Fex as either a STC or HVC platform. With the Stranglethorn it's probably better to keep back a bit, there's no benefit in being in front here. An HVC-equipped Fex with Adrenals makes a pretty good tank hunter, especially for AV13/14. Even if you can't quite make a charge, the weapon can do some damage.

I can only keep them alive for turn 1 (if not facing Tau), and maybe turn 2, and it takes them 3 turns to get into effective range running 2 TL-Devouers or longer if my enemy is trying to avoid them. With Stranglethorn, they can at least do some damage in those 2-3 turns. If I face something other than a gunline which is rare for my local meta it is probably a Drop Pod army. Stranglethorn can be just as good as devourers against that on the turn they arrive. If I face something else, say Orks, Mech, Beast Pack, or Flying circus than I'm regretting my wargear choices. With 2 Dakka Flyrants and a Crone, I do have a fair amount of anti Air.

That being said, if you think my proposed list would better test the viability of Carnifexes by outfitting 2 of them with 2 TL devourers and 1 with a HVC and Adrenals, I would be happy to try that.

The idea of a Cfex with a HVC is unappealing to me, because the Harpy can have a TL HVC + way more maneuverability + more survivability for the same cost. Why would you pick Cfex over Harpy?

In fact that highlights the problem with Cfexes to me. Consider the table below ranked on a scale of 1 to 10

Unit Survive Manuever Range GEQ MEQ TEQ Air Mech Dakkafex 4 2 3 8 4 2 6 4 TFex w/ E.G. 10 2 3 6 4 2 0 4 Exocrine 6 2 5 3 6 8 3 5 Crone 6 8 2 5 8 3 10 8 Harpy 6 8 8 6 6 3 5 7

Dakkafexes are good against Guard Equiv., and Air. They are ok against Mech and Marine Equiv. Meanwhile Crones and Harpies can do better with Mech and MEQ. Exocrines are better at TEQ. TFexes are great at survivability. Before the dataslates, carnifexes ability to be taken in broods helped their desirability, but now that FOC is less constraining, they are less desirable, and they aren't that much cheaper.

tag8833 wrote:


In fact that highlights the problem with Cfexes to me. Consider the table below ranked on a scale of 1 to 10

Unit Survive Manuever Range GEQ MEQ TEQ Air Mech Dakkafex 4 2 3 8 4 2 6 4 TFex w/ E.G. 10 2 3 6 4 2 0 4 Exocrine 6 2 5 3 6 8 3 5 Crone 6 8 2 5 8 3 10 8 Harpy 6 8 8 6 6 3 5 7

Dakkafexes are good against Guard Equiv., and Air. They are ok against Mech and Marine Equiv. Meanwhile Crones and Harpies can do better with Mech and MEQ. Exocrines are better at TEQ. TFexes are great at survivability. Before the dataslates, carnifexes ability to be taken in broods helped their desirability, but now that FOC is less constraining, they are less desirable, and they aren't that much cheaper.

Is your table arbitrarily using the 1-10 range to rank those units? Just for the sake of argument, I would say that a T-fex with AG should be a 3 for maneuverability vs the stock dakkafex.