The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)

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**Addaran**

StarHunter25 wrote:
My nids have been on ice since the 6e book dropped. From what most of what I've read so far, the three dataslates are more or less required to make the army work, as well as investing in at least a crone and an exocrine.
So past the initial $245.00 investment to make things work something to how they used to (I liked more of a walking nids list, so using lots of FMC will be odd for me), anything else I should really look at? Maybe another venomthrope or two (one atm)?

If you want lots of walking nids, maybe get a living artillery formation to rain pinning doom on the enemies while you move foward.
(That's 3 biovores, 3 warriors and one exocrine)

**Zach**

Local 1850 tourney next week with no dataslates or allies allowed.

Taking this:

2xFlyrant with Devourers, one has HC
Venomthrope
30 Termagants
Tervigon (Outflanking then breeding a protection bubble)
Warrior brood
3xCrone
2xMawloc
Tyrannofex

Its the 3 Adepticon missions with symmetrical tables.

Essentially crones and flyrants push up hard with angles to improve vector striking. Fex/Warriors/Venom move up with the 30 gant bubble line in front, seizing objectives and hopefully drawing fire while under synapse.

Tervigon goes to grab one of the objectives with gants assisting, and hopefully enough firepower is wasted shooting at the sky that my Tfex last to the end acid spraying or punching things.

Thoughts?

**jifel**

At the moment, I'm in one of those playing droughts, where I won't get a game in for another week (Exams are brutal). However, these months are when I crack down on my math-hammer and theory hammer, and the changes I need to make in my Tyranid list.

I'm thinking skyshields. A lot of people like them already, so I won't claim originality, but I think it would serve as a better Alpha-strike protector than a Bastion, and you can hide a Venom under one easily anyways.

Who here has used a Skyshield, especially in a Flyer Heavy list?

**tetrisphreak**

jifel wrote:
At the moment, I'm in one of those playing droughts, where I won't get a game in for another week (Exams are brutal). However, these months are when I crack down on my math-hammer and theory hammer, and the changes I need to make in my Tyranid list.

I'm thinking skyshields. A lot of people like them already, so I won't claim originality, but I think it would serve as a better Alpha-strike protector than a Bastion, and you can hide a Venom under one easily anyways.

Who here has used a Skyshield, especially in a Flyer Heavy list?

I'm using 1 tomorrow @750 points. I have high hopes for it combined with the venomthrope, zoanthrope, exocrine, flyrant, and biovores I'm fielding alongside it. I'll chime in after my game with a quick recap.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
So now that other Codices are coming out (Astra Militarum, Tempestus) I feel like we have exhausted the basic tactica of the nids over 90 pages of thread.

I propose we maintain this thread by adding to it with counter-tactics for new (and some existing) armies to keep the hive mind fresh with ripe information.

So, to start, Codex: Astra Militarum (Star Army...Starmy!)

Some of the things to be very aware of on the game table:
1.) Pask. In a Punisher. 20 Bs4 Rending, Preferred enemy shots is nothing to scoff at.
2.) Regimental Advisors - Master of Ordnance can clear out our support bugs like zoanthropes and venomthropes with a direct hit.
3.) Command Squads - Orders are the guard's niche. Some are brutal, including the Ignores Cover option. Take these out with extreme prejudice.
4.) War Priests - Giving a huge unit re-rolls in close combat, fearless, and the other war chants are all very huge buffs. These guys must go down.

Some things I think tyranid players have access to that will mitigate these threats:

1.) Precision shots from flyrants - Direct all 6's to hit at the war priests, commanders, MoO's, etc. Most of the characters who "buff" the unit aren't IC's, so they either look out sir on a 4+ or not at all.
2.) Barrage sniping - Same idea as above, but with biovores and harpy spore mine drops. Force saves on particular models and just like tau, the guard will start to fall apart.
3.) Haywire - The Electroshock Grubs are great TAC flamers for tyrants and tervigons/tyrannofexes. Not only are they haywire but the AP5 negates most guardsmen's armor.
4.) FMC's - this spam is really the 'go to' tournament list right now, but for good reason. It works. Choking the table with 5 fairly cheap (compared to Daemon princes) FMC's means that even when 1 or 2 go down the others can converge and smash tanks or small regiments of infantry while your foot sloggers take care of the forward elements.

That's all i can think of off the top of my head right now. Feel free to add to, agree or disagree with my thoughts, etc.

**tag8833**

I got my first game in against AM yesterday. I was playing 2 v 2 with Blood Angel allies and AG + Space Marines against us.

Because my space Marine opponent runs fluffy lists, and the AG player was new to the new Guard, and my ally was an excellent player, I ran a fluffy list that I knew would have some trouble with mech:

Spoiler:

I was facing Land Raider with 2 Lemun Russ Variants (One had a large blast S10 AP:1. The other one had Pask and non-blast high S, AP shooting.
Behind those were 4 Chimeras with Las Cannons holding IG squads with 2 Plasmas, and 2 of the new psychers were hiding behind them (not joined to a squad for some reason).
And the Marine Opponent brought in 10 Terminators via Deep Strike, and had a Tac squad hiding out of sight manning the Emperor's Will Objective. It was Vanguard deployment.

Here is a basic rundown of the game:

Spoiler:

Top of 1: I made effective use of my Venom (and night fight), took one wound on a dakkafex, and lost 3 gaunts. My ally took no fire.
Bottom of 1: I started my long walk across the board to the tanks.
Top of 2: A scattered S10 Large blast ID 2 of my warriors, while my Fexes and Venom made their cover saves. Lost 2-3 more gaunts.
Bottom of 2: I got side armor on a Chimera turn 2, and blew it up with one of my STC fexes. My ally dropped a melta squad out of a Rhino next to the Land Raider, but failed to do anything.
Top of 3: Our opponents took that opportunity to exit the Land Raider with his Tac squad to shoot at the melta marines. I lost one Dakka fex, and the rest of my Gaunts.
Bottom of 3: On my turn 3 I killed lots of Marines with my STC fexes, and made a charge on the Land Raider with my remaining Dakkafex and Tyranid Prime. Lots of rolling only 1 glance. My Ally managed to pop a chimera with Mephiston who had been walking up one board edge toward our opponent's objective the whole game. I popped another Chimera with a fex.
Top of 4: My Dakkafex and Warlord took every shot fired, and it ended with my dakkafex dead and my warlord with only 1 wound left. My last warrior died leaving me with 1 wound of synapse left. The Terminators came in by our objective, and scattered a bit.
Bottom of 4: My Ally moved all of his units to engage the Terminators except for Mephiston. I charged the Land Raider with one of my fexes, and did 1 more glance (1/2 way there. Fexes are awesome! /sarcasm). My warlord, and the other fex killed some marines, and then failed to charge and finish them off. Mephiston killed some guardsmen that hopped out of the Chimera that I had just killed.
Top of 5: The S10 blast targeted my fex with the warlord, and scattered 11 inches over my other fex and the Land raider. My fex took a wound, but I rolled to Pen (6), and on the Pen table (6) to explode the Land Raider before it shot that turn. Yay! Our opponents wised up to Mephiston, and fired everything into him, and did 2 wounds.
Bottom of 5: I charged Pask's squad with a carnifex, but the tank with the Large blast was closer, so I killed it. I also charged my one wound warlord and carnifex into a squad of guardsmen. I lost my warlord to an overwatching lasgun. The Carnifex mopped up the squad, but now I had no more synapse. I charged a venom into some guard because I had nothing left to do with him. Mephiston made the charge into the marines holding the objective, but it was a large enough squad that he wasn't able to contest or make them pile in off of it. So it was 5 (First Blood, Linebreaker, 1 Objective) to 5 (Linebreaker, 1 Warlord, 1 Objective). But the game went on.
Top of 6: There wasn't a ton of firepower left. It killed one of my fexes, so all I had left was 1 Venom tarpitting some guard, and 1 Carnifex with 3 wounds. Pask ran away from what was going to be a charging carnifex. The Terminators failed their charge. Our opponents conceded, because Mephiston was going to draw their marines off of their objective.

It was a close game, and I got the impression that the new guard are going to be very challenging for tyranids though flying Circus would do ok, I'm guessing. I couldn't believe how much armor he could put on the board at 1000 points, and those psychic powers could have been huge had my opponent understood them a bit better. They don't Twin link everything like Tau, or Ignore cover all the time like Tau, but they have a lot of firepower.

**ductvader**

New Guard?

They seem to have been brought in line with 6th and made a (mostly) lateral move in terms of power level.

They have some new tricks and such to deal with some current problems in the meta. I think they'll help balance out tau and an IG player with some lascannons and ignores cover orders is going to have a better chance facing down serpents.

Bugs don't seem too affected...there will be less (still 2) Vendettas on the board.

**Roci**

Depends if you play FW or not. I've done two games with my skyblight vs AM ( FW in both games) It went very very badly for me... got roflstomped both games. Sabre platforms/vultures Ignores cover with monster hunter.. it was almost laughable.

we are going to throw down with no FW soon though... see how it matches up at that point.

**jifel**

Roci wrote:
Depends if you play FW or not. I've done two games with my skyblight vs AM ( FW in both games) It went very very badly for me... got roflstomped both games. Sabre platforms/vultures Ignores cover with monster hunter.. it was almost laughable.

we are going to throw down with no FW soon though... see how it matches up at that point.

But the orders don't affect Vehicles... right? Seriously, did this change? I was under the impression that orders only worked on Infantry units not all units. So yes, Sabres could benefit, but Vultures shouldn't be able to.

**Roci**

Sorry, that's just my, in a hurry, terrible grammer. The vultures just had tl punisher cannons.

**tetrisphreak**

So, played my game with the sky shield/venom combo tonight. However it was vs a total baby seal who is just learning the game, so there aren't many tactics to be gleaned. I will say that the pad is a great vantage point for my exocrine and the 2+ cover save it gets with shrouded is clutch.

**tag8833**

tetrisphreak wrote:
So, played my game with the sky shield/venom combo tonight. However it was vs a total baby seal who is just learning the game, so there aren't many tactics to be gleaned. I will say that the pad is a great vantage point for my exocrine and the 2+ cover save it gets with shrouded is clutch.

Forge the Narrative did one of their extended 3 hour live batreps featuring a list that includes a skyshield with a Venom hiding underneath. Here is the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a7YR7L4CGc

I'm not a fan of their style of batrep, but I can't argue with their list:
2 Dakka Flyrants
Venom under a skyshield
Tervigon
30 Outflanking gaunts.
20-30 more gaunts.
2 Crones
Harpy
3 Exocrines on top of the skyshield.

**PrinceRaven**

Taking a Skyshiled is a good reason too take Exocrines over Carnifices due to the extra range.

**tetrisphreak**

tag8833 wrote:
tetrisphreak wrote:
So, played my game with the sky shield/venom combo tonight. However it was vs a total baby seal who is just learning the game, so there aren't many tactics to be gleaned. I will say that the pad is a great vantage point for my exocrine and the 2+ cover save it gets with shrouded is clutch.

Forge the Narrative did one of their extended 3 hour live batreps featuring a list that includes a skyshield with a Venom hiding underneath. Here is the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a7YR7L4CGc

I'm not a fan of their style of batrep, but I can't argue with their list:
2 Dakka Flyrants
Venom under a skyshield
Tervigon
30 Outflanking gaunts.
20-30 more gaunts.
2 Crones
Harpy
3 Exocrines on top of the skyshield.

Yea I follow those guys and listen to the podcast. Juice is who I got the idea from in the first place. It's a great combo.

**Ventus**

How does a venomthrope fit under a skyshield?

**ductvader**

Ventus wrote:
How does a venomthrope fit under a skyshield?

I think there's room for him?

My venomthropes are converted chaos spawn (tentacles only) with hormagaunt heads.

**tetrisphreak**

ductvader wrote:
Ventus wrote:
How does a venomthrope fit under a skyshield?

I think there's room for him?

My venomthropes are converted chaos spawn (tentacles only) with hormagaunt heads.

A standard venomthrope can fit under a skyshield. A zoanthrope cannot - but the venomthrope is better if it's behind one of the legs so the enemy cannot draw LOS to them.

**DarkStarSabre**

ductvader wrote:
Ventus wrote:
How does a venomthrope fit under a skyshield?

I think there's room for him?

My venomthropes are converted chaos spawn (tentacles only) with hormagaunt heads.

Always good to learn of converted Venomthropes. Mine are 2nd edition Zoanthropes with Lash Whips for hands. I figure the big heads can be all toxic and spore producing.

But yeah, you can fit a lot under a skyshield. But not Zoeys. If you want to fit Zoeys under one you might want to get 2nd ed. Zoeys.

**xttz**

Since I have an aversion to FMCs (transporting lots of them is a pain), today's game was an experiment with Walkrants, specifically the Tyrant Node. One thing I've noticed is that there's no restriction that prevents you using the formation's Tyrant Guard with another Tyrant from your primary detachment. So with that in mind, my Warlord effectively had 10 wounds to play with...

Spoiler:

My opponent was using a Dark Angels gunline, with 2 Tac squads, a command squad and the bolter banner all behind an aegis line with a quad gun. That was supported by 2 predators, a FW relic scorpius whirlwind (very nasty), dreadnought, and a GK contingent with Coteaz and a Dreadknight.

I fit the formation Walkrant for longer range supporting fire and kept him back a bit, his 18" synapse really helping there. I threw in a Trygon Prime as some tough backup synapse, although thanks to Coteaz I didn't bother deep-striking it and instead used him as mobile cover for the warlord. Most other choices were intended to be an advancing gunline, with Hormagaunts there just because I like them. Between my psykers I was lucky enough to roll 2 Paroxsym and a Catalyst. Paroxsym was essential in keeping those Tac squads (and the quad gun) useless at BS1/2 as I advanced, and it helped that my opponent didn't manage a single DtW.
Once I was within 18" it all came down to attrition. The Exocrine and Fex made short work of the Dreadnought and Dreadknight, while the rest of my army ground through marines (the trouble with Paroxysm is my opponent has no reason not to Go to Ground... 2+ cover saves are fun!). He desperately tried to burn through the Warlord's unit, but Shrouded and Catalyst made that really frustrating. The Trygon minced the predators in melee, and the Hive Guard used their aiming shenanigans to pick off Coteaz's remaining henchmen holding an objective behind a building. Coteaz himself made a hilarious suicide charge on a Tyrant... but failed to ID it and was promptly splattered.
Going into my final turn, the game was tied with equal objectives, myself with Linebreaker and my opponent with First Blood. In his attempt to win with Slay the Warlord, the Tyrant Guard were all dead, but the Walkrant was still standing with 2 wounds. The unlikely star of the game was... the Hormagaunts! Five of them survived to get around and behind the Aegis line, charging the last Tac squad from the side. Between the pile-in move and killing 1 marine, it was enough to pull them off their last objective. Om nom nom.

edit: Pics

http://i.imgur.com/oz2GBSi.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ITLp4KI.jpg

**Addaran**

xttz wrote:
Since I have an aversion to FMCs (transporting lots of them is a pain), today's game was an experiment with Walkrants, specifically the Tyrant Node. One thing I've noticed is that there's no restriction that prevents you using the formation's Tyrant Guard with another Tyrant from your primary detachment. So with that in mind, my Warlord effectively had 10 wounds to play with...

Spoiler:

New List: 1850 pts

----- HQ -------------------------------
1. Hive Tyrant* (195pts)
- 1x Hive Tyrant
- 2x Devourer with Brainleech Worms - Twin-linked

----- Troop ----------------------------
1. Tyranid Warrior Brood* (110pts)
- 3x Tyranid Warrior
- 1x Barbed Strangler, 2x Deathspitter
2. Termagant Brood (140pts)
- 25x Termagant
- 10x Devourer
3. Hormaguant Brood (105pts)
- 21x Hormaguant

----- Elite ----------------------------
1. Hive Guard Brood (165pts)
- 3x Hive Guard
2. Venomthrope Brood (45pts)
- 1x Venomthrope
3. Zoanthrope* (100pts)
- 2x Zoanthrope

----- Fast Attack ----------------------

----- Heavy Support --------------------
1. Trygon Prime* (230pts)
- 1x Trygon Prime
2. Exocrine (170pts)
3. Carnifex Brood (150pts)
- 1x Carnifex
- 2x Devourer with Brainleech Worms - Twin-linked

----- Formation ------------------------
1. Tyrant Node (440pts)
- 1x Hive Tyrant
- 1x Heavy Venom Cannon, 1x Devourer with Brainleech Worms - Twin-linked
- 3x Tyrant Guard
- 2x Venomthrope

My opponent was using a Dark Angels gunline, with 2 Tac squads, a command squad and the bolter banner all behind an aegis line with a quad gun. That was supported by 2 predators, a FW relic scorpius whirlwind (very nasty), dreadnought, and a GK contingent with Coteaz and a Dreadknight.

I fit the formation Walkrant for longer range supporting fire and kept him back a bit, his 18" synapse really helping there. I threw in a Trygon Prime as some tough backup synapse, although thanks to Coteaz I didn't bother deep-striking it and instead used him as mobile cover for the warlord. Most other choices were intended to be an advancing gunline, with Hormagaunts there just because I like them. Between my psykers I was lucky enough to roll 2 Paroxsym and a Catalyst. Paroxsym was essential in keeping those Tac squads (and the quad gun) useless at BS1/2 as I advanced, and it helped that my opponent didn't manage a single DtW.
Once I was within 18" it all came down to attrition. The Exocrine and Fex made short work of the Dreadnought and Dreadknight, while the rest of my army ground through marines (the trouble with Paroxysm is my opponent has no reason not to Go to Ground... 2+ cover saves are fun!). He desperately tried to burn through the Warlord's unit, but Shrouded and Catalyst made that really frustrating. The Trygon minced the predators in melee, and the Hive Guard used their aiming shenanigans to pick off Coteaz's remaining henchmen holding an objective behind a building. Coteaz himself made a hilarious suicide charge on a Tyrant... but failed to ID it and was promptly splattered.
Going into my final turn, the game was tied with equal objectives, myself with Linebreaker and my opponent with First Blood. In his attempt to win with Slay the Warlord, the Tyrant Guard were all dead, but the Walkrant was still standing with 2 wounds. The unlikely star of the game was... the Hormagaunts! Five of them survived to get around and behind the Aegis line, charging the last Tac squad from the side. Between the pile-in move and killing 1 marine, it was enough to pull them off their last objective. Om nom nom.

Very nice and different list! Glad to see some different playstyle can still do well.

**tag8833**

xttz wrote:
Since I have an aversion to FMCs (transporting lots of them is a pain), today's game was an experiment with Walkrants, specifically the Tyrant Node. One thing I've noticed is that there's no restriction that prevents you using the formation's Tyrant Guard with another Tyrant from your primary detachment. So with that in mind, my Warlord effectively had 10 wounds to play with...

Spoiler:

New List: 1850 pts

----- HQ -------------------------------
1. Hive Tyrant* (195pts)
- 1x Hive Tyrant
- 2x Devourer with Brainleech Worms - Twin-linked

----- Troop ----------------------------
1. Tyranid Warrior Brood* (110pts)
- 3x Tyranid Warrior
- 1x Barbed Strangler, 2x Deathspitter
2. Termagant Brood (140pts)
- 25x Termagant
- 10x Devourer
3. Hormaguant Brood (105pts)
- 21x Hormaguant

----- Elite ----------------------------
1. Hive Guard Brood (165pts)
- 3x Hive Guard
2. Venomthrope Brood (45pts)
- 1x Venomthrope
3. Zoanthrope* (100pts)
- 2x Zoanthrope

----- Fast Attack ----------------------

----- Heavy Support --------------------
1. Trygon Prime* (230pts)
- 1x Trygon Prime
2. Exocrine (170pts)
3. Carnifex Brood (150pts)
- 1x Carnifex
- 2x Devourer with Brainleech Worms - Twin-linked

----- Formation ------------------------
1. Tyrant Node (440pts)
- 1x Hive Tyrant
- 1x Heavy Venom Cannon, 1x Devourer with Brainleech Worms - Twin-linked
- 3x Tyrant Guard
- 2x Venomthrope

Why run a 2nd walkrant? Wouldn't a 2nd Carnifex do the same damage? Have you considered adding biovores for a living artillery formation?

**Sinful Hero**

tag8833 wrote:
xttz wrote:
Since I have an aversion to FMCs (transporting lots of them is a pain), today's game was an experiment with Walkrants, specifically the Tyrant Node. One thing I've noticed is that there's no restriction that prevents you using the formation's Tyrant Guard with another Tyrant from your primary detachment. So with that in mind, my Warlord effectively had 10 wounds to play with...

Spoiler:

New List: 1850 pts

----- HQ -------------------------------
1. Hive Tyrant* (195pts)
- 1x Hive Tyrant
- 2x Devourer with Brainleech Worms - Twin-linked

----- Troop ----------------------------
1. Tyranid Warrior Brood* (110pts)
- 3x Tyranid Warrior
- 1x Barbed Strangler, 2x Deathspitter
2. Termagant Brood (140pts)
- 25x Termagant
- 10x Devourer
3. Hormaguant Brood (105pts)
- 21x Hormaguant

----- Elite ----------------------------
1. Hive Guard Brood (165pts)
- 3x Hive Guard
2. Venomthrope Brood (45pts)
- 1x Venomthrope
3. Zoanthrope* (100pts)
- 2x Zoanthrope

----- Fast Attack ----------------------

----- Heavy Support --------------------
1. Trygon Prime* (230pts)
- 1x Trygon Prime
2. Exocrine (170pts)
3. Carnifex Brood (150pts)
- 1x Carnifex
- 2x Devourer with Brainleech Worms - Twin-linked

----- Formation ------------------------
1. Tyrant Node (440pts)
- 1x Hive Tyrant
- 1x Heavy Venom Cannon, 1x Devourer with Brainleech Worms - Twin-linked
- 3x Tyrant Guard
- 2x Venomthrope

Why run a 2nd walkrant? Wouldn't a 2nd Carnifex do the same damage? Have you considered adding biovores for a living artillery formation?

The second walkrant was for the synapse node, tyrant guard for the primary tyrant, and access to more venomthropes.

**tag8833**

Sinful Hero wrote:
tag8833 wrote:
xttz wrote:
Since I have an aversion to FMCs (transporting lots of them is a pain), today's game was an experiment with Walkrants, specifically the Tyrant Node. One thing I've noticed is that there's no restriction that prevents you using the formation's Tyrant Guard with another Tyrant from your primary detachment. So with that in mind, my Warlord effectively had 10 wounds to play with...

Spoiler:

New List: 1850 pts

----- HQ -------------------------------
1. Hive Tyrant* (195pts)
- 1x Hive Tyrant
- 2x Devourer with Brainleech Worms - Twin-linked

----- Troop ----------------------------
1. Tyranid Warrior Brood* (110pts)
- 3x Tyranid Warrior
- 1x Barbed Strangler, 2x Deathspitter
2. Termagant Brood (140pts)
- 25x Termagant
- 10x Devourer
3. Hormaguant Brood (105pts)
- 21x Hormaguant

----- Elite ----------------------------
1. Hive Guard Brood (165pts)
- 3x Hive Guard
2. Venomthrope Brood (45pts)
- 1x Venomthrope
3. Zoanthrope* (100pts)
- 2x Zoanthrope

----- Fast Attack ----------------------

----- Heavy Support --------------------
1. Trygon Prime* (230pts)
- 1x Trygon Prime
2. Exocrine (170pts)
3. Carnifex Brood (150pts)
- 1x Carnifex
- 2x Devourer with Brainleech Worms - Twin-linked

----- Formation ------------------------
1. Tyrant Node (440pts)
- 1x Hive Tyrant
- 1x Heavy Venom Cannon, 1x Devourer with Brainleech Worms - Twin-linked
- 3x Tyrant Guard
- 2x Venomthrope

Why run a 2nd walkrant? Wouldn't a 2nd Carnifex do the same damage? Have you considered adding biovores for a living artillery formation?

The second walkrant was for the synapse node, tyrant guard for the primary tyrant, and access to more venomthropes.

I understand the walkrant for the Tyrant Node, but it seems like a Tyranid prime would make a better warlord. Give your formation Tyrant Hive commander, and then you could outflank the prime with the TGaunts. I guess I wasn't thinking it through completely. A Tyranid Prime wouldn't save enough points to get you a 2nd Carnifex or 3 biovores.

**pinecone77**

tag8833 wrote:
Sinful Hero wrote:
tag8833 wrote:
xttz wrote:
Since I have an aversion to FMCs (transporting lots of them is a pain), today's game was an experiment with Walkrants, specifically the Tyrant Node. One thing I've noticed is that there's no restriction that prevents you using the formation's Tyrant Guard with another Tyrant from your primary detachment. So with that in mind, my Warlord effectively had 10 wounds to play with...

Spoiler:

New List: 1850 pts

----- HQ -------------------------------
1. Hive Tyrant* (195pts)
- 1x Hive Tyrant
- 2x Devourer with Brainleech Worms - Twin-linked

----- Troop ----------------------------
1. Tyranid Warrior Brood* (110pts)
- 3x Tyranid Warrior
- 1x Barbed Strangler, 2x Deathspitter
2. Termagant Brood (140pts)
- 25x Termagant
- 10x Devourer
3. Hormaguant Brood (105pts)
- 21x Hormaguant

----- Elite ----------------------------
1. Hive Guard Brood (165pts)
- 3x Hive Guard
2. Venomthrope Brood (45pts)
- 1x Venomthrope
3. Zoanthrope* (100pts)
- 2x Zoanthrope

----- Fast Attack ----------------------

----- Heavy Support --------------------
1. Trygon Prime* (230pts)
- 1x Trygon Prime
2. Exocrine (170pts)
3. Carnifex Brood (150pts)
- 1x Carnifex
- 2x Devourer with Brainleech Worms - Twin-linked

----- Formation ------------------------
1. Tyrant Node (440pts)
- 1x Hive Tyrant
- 1x Heavy Venom Cannon, 1x Devourer with Brainleech Worms - Twin-linked
- 3x Tyrant Guard
- 2x Venomthrope

Why run a 2nd walkrant? Wouldn't a 2nd Carnifex do the same damage? Have you considered adding biovores for a living artillery formation?

The second walkrant was for the synapse node, tyrant guard for the primary tyrant, and access to more venomthropes.

I understand the walkrant for the Tyrant Node, but it seems like a Tyranid prime would make a better warlord. Give your formation Tyrant Hive commander, and then you could outflank the prime with the TGaunts. I guess I wasn't thinking it through completely. A Tyranid Prime wouldn't save enough points to get you a 2nd Carnifex or 3 biovores.

Yeah, I also wanted to find points enough to double the Dakkafex. But the only easy savings is dropping the Exocrene, and I don't see that as a good move, extra because you're going up against MEQ...

**xttz**

tag8833 wrote:
I understand the walkrant for the Tyrant Node, but it seems like a Tyranid prime would make a better warlord. Give your formation Tyrant Hive commander, and then you could outflank the prime with the TGaunts. I guess I wasn't thinking it through completely. A Tyranid Prime wouldn't save enough points to get you a 2nd Carnifex or 3 biovores.

I really struggle to justify a Prime in a list over a Tyrant. All you really get is the synapse, no psychic rolls (which made the game for me here) and no TL Devs or HVC. Both Tyrants more than pulled their weight in shooting alone, let alone Paroxsym / Catalyst. A Walkrant with 3 guards is also arguably more durable than a Prime in guants, and I had to take the guards.

tag8833 wrote:
Why run a 2nd walkrant? Wouldn't a 2nd Carnifex do the same damage? Have you considered adding biovores for a living artillery formation?

My Biovores are still a work in progress

I'm converting up some old 2E-style ones and the last one just arrived from ebay at the weekend. I'll probably run Living Artillery as soon as I can.

Honestly, I think if anything I'd run a 3rd Tyrant to improve that list, probably replacing the Zoans / Trygon. I'd also field them all with the HVC / Dev combo, as I struggled for high strength shooting at times. My opponent did well with keeping his AV13 facings toward my massed S6, forcing it to shoot elsewhere. Plus more psychic rolls never hurt.

**PrinceRaven**

I would only recommend a Prime in a Swarm list, where reliable Synapse is massively important, or if you're attaching it to a Venomthrope and sticking it in a Bastion. Even then, I'd only recommend it as part of a Synaptic Swarm, so it isn't taking up an HQ slot.

**ductvader**

I just ran an eternal Swarm...and put down OVESAstar.

It was glorious.

Hormagaunts, Termagants, 1 Tervigon, 2 Primes, 9 Zoanthropes, and 9 Warriors (3 Stranglers)

Synapse was no problem.

It was so many models though I'll probably never play it again.

**tetrisphreak**

ductvader wrote:
I just ran an eternal Swarm...and put down OVESAstar.

It was glorious.

Hormagaunts, Termagants, 1 Tervigon, 2 Primes, 9 Zoanthropes, and 9 Warriors (3 Stranglers)

Synapse was no problem.

It was so many models though I'll probably never play it again.

Good job on the win -- Endless swarm was one of my early favorites when the formations started coming out. The best part is it's easy to run at low points levels, or you can ramp up with brood sizes and upgrades for larger games.

I've found that it almost always requires one or two trygon tunnels to function late-game, especially if your termagants have devourers on them. Do you feel having a mid-table entry point would have assisted your efforts vs the O'Vesa Star?

**ductvader**

tetrisphreak wrote:
ductvader wrote:
I just ran an eternal Swarm...and put down OVESAstar.

It was glorious.

Hormagaunts, Termagants, 1 Tervigon, 2 Primes, 9 Zoanthropes, and 9 Warriors (3 Stranglers)

Synapse was no problem.

It was so many models though I'll probably never play it again.

Good job on the win -- Endless swarm was one of my early favorites when the formations started coming out. The best part is it's easy to run at low points levels, or you can ramp up with brood sizes and upgrades for larger games.

I've found that it almost always requires one or two trygon tunnels to function late-game, especially if your termagants have devourers on them. Do you feel having a mid-table entry point would have assisted your efforts vs the O'Vesa Star?

Absolutely...especially as I was playing the (single objective mission...which was promptly ignored) and the relic as secondary...

Ovesa is brutal...killing a unit a turn...but having the tervigon and a zoey brood with catalyst was huge!

I think that I actually would have performed much better if I had taken 2 endless swarms with minimum sized units instead of 1 with max sized units...then there would have been a lot more surviving gants due to min squad overkill.

**xttz**

ductvader wrote:
Absolutely...especially as I was playing the (single objective mission...which was promptly ignored) and the relic as secondary...

Ovesa is brutal...killing a unit a turn...but having the tervigon and a zoey brood with catalyst was huge!

I think that I actually would have performed much better if I had taken 2 endless swarms with minimum sized units instead of 1 with max sized units...then there would have been a lot more surviving gants due to min squad overkill.

How did you equip your gaunts, did they have much in the way of upgrades? Were there any units you really struggled against?

I'm considering running something like this next week, based on your list:

Spoiler:

Honestly, I think the biggest liability here are the Warriors. They're so easy to take out, and don't have much killing power. I wonder if it's worth just taking 2x10 Termas as the Troops and using the points elsewhere.

**tetrisphreak**

MSU is the tactical response to a Deathstar meta, because of that exact reason. Overkill. That shouldn't be a thing in 40k, but currently it is. Swamping the table with lots of individual targets means the enemy can't engage them all, then what's remaining can gang-up on the enemy deathstar (or other units) when they make their way there.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

xttz wrote:

I'm considering running something like this next week, based on your list:

*snip*

Honestly, I think the biggest liability here are the Warriors. They're so easy to take out, and don't have much killing power. I wonder if it's worth just taking 2x10 Termas as the Troops and using the points elsewhere.

Consider the fact that the warrior broods are "leading" the army from behind. They're going to be behind terrain, hopefully mostly LOS blocking, spurring the gribbling masses forward to choke the guns of the enemy. If it goes according to plan once the Trygons are in the enemy back field and the respawning gants and gaunts are coming back right in their face, the warriors will honestly become low-priority targets because of all the other crap they'll have to be dealing with, or because their heavy supports are tied in CC/dead/etc.

Suddenly that 3-warrior brood wins you the game because they're holding a midfield objective, while your termagants get one in your home DZ and everything in your enemy's DZ is either contested or held by your respawning gribbles.

That's how i call it anyway.