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Well, vehicles got both harder and easier to hit. There is no longer auto hits on stationary vehicles, but they are also always WS1 so nids are generally going to be 3+ to hit even against flat-out

barnowl wrote:
Well, vehicles got both harder and easier to hit. There is no longer auto hits on stationary vehicles, but they are also always WS1 so nids are generally going to be 3+ to hit even against flat-out

They were only WS1 when going flat-out in 6th also... so overall vehicles got harder to hit and not easier at all.

Right. Tyranids can take multiple combined arms detachments however. If the local TO is house ruling army construction then suggest we get an ally detachment with ourselves, at least. It's a fair compromise if the TO is reasonable.



Also I'm going to try using a spore chimney as a counts-as void shield generator. With the FAQ clarifying that blasts/templates only count as 1 hit on a void shield, I think it will be a good addition to my army. Here's a WIP shot:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
...I have to say...looking at the 7th ed. FAQ.

Synaptic Lynchpin - Uh....what? Every single HQ choice we have that can roll for Warlord traits on the table has Synapse. The only ones that don't have predetermined Warlord Traits already.

One could argue for Unbound...but...uh....what exactly would you take as a Warlord in an Unbound army that doesn't have synapse or pre-determined Warlord traits?

Old one eye, or Deathleaper. Sad, but true.

pinecone77 wrote:
Old one eye, or Deathleaper. Sad, but true.

They both have pre-determined Warlord traits.

The FAQ is because it's possible to have a Broodlord Warlord. Take a Tervigon for the HQ and you have to promote a Character from your list to Warlord. Broodlords are characters but don't have Synapse.

rigeld2 wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:
Old one eye, or Deathleaper. Sad, but true.

They both have pre-determined Warlord traits.

The FAQ is because it's possible to have a Broodlord Warlord. Take a Tervigon for the HQ and you have to promote a Character from your list to Warlord. Broodlords are characters but don't have Synapse.

So, even a total hose...is not hosed enough! I guess a Broodlord Hunting pack, inside a Heirophant is the way to go!

rigeld2 wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:
Old one eye, or Deathleaper. Sad, but true.

They both have pre-determined Warlord traits.

The FAQ is because it's possible to have a Broodlord Warlord. Take a Tervigon for the HQ and you have to promote a Character from your list to Warlord. Broodlords are characters but don't have Synapse.

They found this obscure ass gak and deemed it FAQ worthy? They still haven't released a non ambiguous wording of the formation infiltrates.... never mind the gang of gak that actually NEEDS to be FAQ'd

At least they resolved the same psychic powers cumulative argument.

I'm still gonna run my Skyblight. Gave electroshock grubs to my flyrants, and some range weapon to my crones. A highly mobile aerial gunline.

My main concern this edition to be honest, is that the fact you can no longer hide under multi-level ruins against indirect arty-___- wyverns and TFCs are really slowed now. though I guess Biovores got buffed.

Just noticed that with the lose of Area Terrain, IB:lurk took yet another hit. DOn't have my nid book handy, but looks like that unless you are in a ruin or other whys touching a terrain piece your termi's can't shoot on failed IB test anymore.

barnowl wrote:
Just noticed that with the lose of Area Terrain, IB:lurk took yet another hit. DOn't have my nid book handy, but looks like that unless you are in a ruin or other whys touching a terrain piece your termi's can't shoot on failed IB test anymore.

Area terrain isn't really gone.

Ruins are still 4+ "area terrain" of sorts, and you are encouraged to determine what effects your other terrain has before the game. There are example dataslates for terrain at the back of the book (for the Citadel products), including the "twisted copse" or forest as it more commonly known, which is 5+ "area terrain". This is all prefaced with a note that you should create "terrain dataslates" for your own terrain if you scatchbuild, and it encourages you to harvest rules for your own terrain from the GW dataslates.

You can either agree that your other, non-Citadel, woods and other similar terrain has the same effect as a Citadel Wood (so 5+ area terrain) or come up with your own rules with your opponent. Given that you should be talking about this with your opponent beforehand, nothing has really changed.

For consistency, decent tournament organizers should be prepared for this and clearly define what the terrain on their boards counts as.

The IB: Lurk rule specifically references area terrain though, so I imagine that when GW flesh out their FAQ they will cover what to do here. Until then, you just need to agree on what to do with your opponent.

Deshkar wrote:
My main concern this edition to be honest, is that the fact you can no longer hide under multi-level ruins against indirect arty-___- wyverns and TFCs are really slowed now. though I guess Biovores got buffed.

I've heard this mentioned as a change, but I not finding it in the new rule book. The blast marker now hits models on all levels of terrain? Can you give me a section or page number to find this rule?

tag8833 wrote:

Deshkar wrote:
My main concern this edition to be honest, is that the fact you can no longer hide under multi-level ruins against indirect arty-___- wyverns and TFCs are really slowed now. though I guess Biovores got buffed.

I've heard this mentioned as a change, but I not finding it in the new rule book. The blast marker now hits models on all levels of terrain? Can you give me a section or page number to find this rule?

In 6th, barrage hit the top level of ruins because the rules said it did. In 7th, there is no such rule, so there's nothing preventing barrage from hitting all levels.

rigeld2 wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

Deshkar wrote:
My main concern this edition to be honest, is that the fact you can no longer hide under multi-level ruins against indirect arty-___- wyverns and TFCs are really slowed now. though I guess Biovores got buffed.

I've heard this mentioned as a change, but I not finding it in the new rule book. The blast marker now hits models on all levels of terrain? Can you give me a section or page number to find this rule?

In 6th, barrage hit the top level of ruins because the rules said it did. In 7th, there is no such rule, so there's nothing preventing barrage from hitting all levels.

That is why I couldn't find a rule that permitted it, it is an absence of a rule that prohibits it. I assume that doesn't apply to Terror from the Deep, because the codex explicitly specifies that it only hits the lowest level of terrain.

It is a pretty massive buff to Biovores, especially when dealing with Tau gunline, and their double movement. My main Tau opponent liked to divide squads over 3 levels to keep them safe from Biovores and TFexes and the like. It is also a boost to STC + TL Dev Fexes, but that build got a big nerf, because fexes are so needed in anti-mech that we need to move asap to get there.

I would like to know, based on 7th if everyone is planning on changing their Carnifex wargear. When I run Carnifexes I usually go with straight dakka-fexes like this:
Carnifex (2 TL-Devourer) - 150

They are pretty expensive already, and can die fairly easily so I haven't been giving my Dakkafexes Adrenal Glands. I've been playing with the idea of a CC-fex and how to outfit it. It seems like this is a strongly suboptimal build, but maybe that is because I haven't arrived at the correct combination yet.

These are the variants I've tried in order of how much I liked them.
Varient 1: Carnifex(Crushing Claws) - 135 <- Best once it arrives.
Varient 2: Carnifex(Adrenal glands) - 135 <- Arrives slightly faster.
Varient 3: Carnifex (no upgrades) <-Cheapest
Varient 4: Carnifex(Bio Plasma) -140 <- aka the "I want to be an Exocrine"

I've been adding Adrenal glands, but with 6 fexes it's expensive.

Space Wolves psychic shenanigans have been fixed. Bye Jaws, bye damned 24" anti-powers bubble.

rigeld2 wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

Deshkar wrote:
My main concern this edition to be honest, is that the fact you can no longer hide under multi-level ruins against indirect arty-___- wyverns and TFCs are really slowed now. though I guess Biovores got buffed.

I've heard this mentioned as a change, but I not finding it in the new rule book. The blast marker now hits models on all levels of terrain? Can you give me a section or page number to find this rule?

In 6th, barrage hit the top level of ruins because the rules said it did. In 7th, there is no such rule, so there's nothing preventing barrage from hitting all levels.

I thought this, but someone at my club mentioned that the book tells you to refer to stronghold assault? I've yet to find the reference myself though?

Eldercaveman wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

Deshkar wrote:
My main concern this edition to be honest, is that the fact you can no longer hide under multi-level ruins against indirect arty-___- wyverns and TFCs are really slowed now. though I guess Biovores got buffed.

I've heard this mentioned as a change, but I not finding it in the new rule book. The blast marker now hits models on all levels of terrain? Can you give me a section or page number to find this rule?

In 6th, barrage hit the top level of ruins because the rules said it did. In 7th, there is no such rule, so there's nothing preventing barrage from hitting all levels.

I thought this, but someone at my club mentioned that the book tells you to refer to stronghold assault? I've yet to find the reference myself though?

IIRC it says to look down through the template from above, and all models visible underneath take a hit. So taking that literally, then, wouldn't models under ruins not be visible and thus not hit?

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

Deshkar wrote:
My main concern this edition to be honest, is that the fact you can no longer hide under multi-level ruins against indirect arty-___- wyverns and TFCs are really slowed now. though I guess Biovores got buffed.

I've heard this mentioned as a change, but I not finding it in the new rule book. The blast marker now hits models on all levels of terrain? Can you give me a section or page number to find this rule?

In 6th, barrage hit the top level of ruins because the rules said it did. In 7th, there is no such rule, so there's nothing preventing barrage from hitting all levels.

I thought this, but someone at my club mentioned that the book tells you to refer to stronghold assault? I've yet to find the reference myself though?

IIRC it says to look down through the template from above, and all models visible underneath take a hit. So taking that literally, then, wouldn't models under ruins not be visible and thus not hit?

Nope. It is all models underneath it. They don't have to be visible. Like Vector strike.

If that doesn't make sense for barrage, it is the same rules for Flame templates. You should have no problem flaming lower levels of terrain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
After a few experiments, and a lot of Theory-Hammer, I've arrived at my new 1850 TAC list. It isn't near as good as my 6th edition TAC list, but it has a similar ability to deal with vehicles, and that is going to be needed.


I should be able to take out 1 anti-air tank turn one. (4 Tentaclids = 1.66 HP, Warp Lance or a Dakka Flyrant should be able to finish it). If needed, I can fly 12" forward with the venom for support, and the Gargoyles for Bubblewrap and claim a 3+ cover or a 2+ Jink. I will try to use my flyrants's E.Grubs any time I can get either 2 vehicles or 1 Vehicle and 4+ models. With D6 + 9 Warp charges, I should be able to cast Warp Lance from one of my flyrants once a turn, and either kill some MEQ or take a HP. I'm leaning toward using Fleshborers over spinefists again to give me a chance to take potshots at AV 10 stuff. If facing super scoring Drop Pods, I should be able to kill 3-4 a turn while still giving a good account against whatever they dropped off. I think I can handle Rhino Spam. I will essentially concede any game against Trip-tide, but have a shot against Trip-Wraith Knights. Guard Blob shouldn't be much of a problem, except for the fact that we've lost precision shot, and so can't take out the Flakk missiles. Guard Mech is going to depend on what sort of anti-air they have. Double Land Raider will be a problem to kill, but I can ignore them for a while, and with all of this haywire, I will pop one eventually. I can probably deal with 3 Wave Serpents, but not more than that. I will plan to roll on Strategic Warlord traits hoping that I will get Master of Ambush. If so, I will Infiltrate the Venom, Dakkafexes, and either the Tervigon (I have 1st turn, or good terrain) or the TGaunts (Bad Terrain and 2nd turn). I don't have any answer for Grey Knights, but hope that I can deny their force weapon activations.

If you get warp Lance on a flyrant. You still have to generate your powers randomly, and a psyker can't cast a power it doesn't know. Relying on warp Lance from your Flyrants is a touch of a gamble. But overall I like the list a lot. Thinking about running something mildly similar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of you get warp Lance on a flyrant. You still have to generate your powers randomly, and a psyker can't cast a power it doesn't know. Relying on warp Lance from your Flyrants is a touch of a gamble. But overall I like the list a lot. Thinking about running something mildly similar.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
If you get warp Lance on a flyrant. You still have to generate your powers randomly, and a psyker can't cast a power it doesn't know. Relying on warp Lance from your Flyrants is a touch of a gamble.

True, but rolling 4 dice I have a 67% chance of getting Warp Lance. If I don't get it, it is a bummer, but it means I have other powers that might be useful. For Instance: Catalyst, or Onslaught.

Rather than counting on Warp Lance, I could always take Allies:

Actually it'd be less than 67%, as you can possibly double up with each Hive Tyrant.

Your actual chance would be 55.56% I think.

tag8833 wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
If you get warp Lance on a flyrant. You still have to generate your powers randomly, and a psyker can't cast a power it doesn't know. Relying on warp Lance from your Flyrants is a touch of a gamble.

True, but rolling 4 dice I have a 67% chance of getting Warp Lance. If I don't get it, it is a bummer, but it means I have other powers that might be useful. For Instance: Catalyst, or Onslaught.

Rather than counting on Warp Lance, I could always take Allies:

Spoiler:

Primary Detachment:
Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL-Devourers, E.Grubs)
Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL-Devourers, E.Grubs)

Venom
Zoey
Zoey

11 HGaunts
11 TGaunts
3 Warriors (BS)

20 Gargoyles
Crone
Crone

Biovore
Biovore

Eldar Allied Detachment!
Autarch

5 Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent (TL Scatter Laser, Suriken Cannon, Holo Fields)

3 Jetbikes

2 War Walkers (2 Bright Lances each)

I really have no faith in Warp Lance. 4 dice for a 2/3 chance to cast, still potential to DtW it and you still have to roll to hit. Warp Lance still seems like too much of a gamble to be viable.

Good thing Zoeys now get Dominion + Something else so at least can always cast something useful.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:


I really have no faith in Warp Lance. 4 dice for a 2/3 chance to cast, still potential to DtW it and you still have to roll to hit. Warp Lance still seems like too much of a gamble to be viable.

Good thing Zoeys now get Dominion + Something else so at least can always cast something useful.

In my first game of 7E the other day, I stocked up on 3 Zoanthrope broods and also managed to roll Warp Lance on both my walkrants.

Despite every cast being successful (and my opponent never managing to Deny), the entire tally for Warp Lance damage in the game was 1 HP off an Ironclad (stunned), and 1 dead Honour Guard. The rest of the time the power either missed in spite of BS4, or rolled a 1 to pen. I also missed out on several attempts because most of my Zoanthropes were dead before getting into range to use it. Zoans really suffer without spore pods to get in range, and the annoying part is that you can't eke out a bit more range from Onslaught from them anymore either.
I ended up using a Dakkafex to punch a Land Raider to death over 3 turns instead, because that was more reliable.

Witchfire powers really should automatically hit for all the hoops you need to go through to use them.

My current TAC:


1850
Flyrant w/devourers, electro HC
Flyrant w/devourers, electro

Venomthrope

Tervigon (outflanks), crushing claws, electro
10x termagant
30x termagant
Warrior Brood

Biovore
Dakkafex w/adrenal
Dakkafex w/adrenal
Dakkafex w/adrenal
Mawloc
Mawloc

This list has 20pts left. It has a walking wall off death, and line disruption. Still nothing compared to 6th, I miss my Crones.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Actually it'd be less than 67%, as you can possibly double up with each Hive Tyrant.

Your actual chance would be 55.56% I think.

I might have missed a rule. On my Mastery Level 2 Flyrant, I roll 2 dice for psychic powers. If both dice are the same, I reroll 1 of them. I can't get stuck with 2 copies of the same power on one model, can I?

Regardless, The chance of rolling Warp Blast on 1 dice is 1/6. On 4 dice it is 4 * 1/6 = 4/6 = 66.67%

Well the first roll is a 1/6 chance the second roll is a 1/5, both times. So it's possibly higher

The odds of getting Warp Blast on a single Hive Tyrant (2 rolls) is 33.3%
1 - (0.833*0.8) = 0.3336

The odds of getting it on at least one Tyrant out of two is 55.5%
1 - (0.6664*0.6664) = 0.5559

Eldercaveman wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

Deshkar wrote:
My main concern this edition to be honest, is that the fact you can no longer hide under multi-level ruins against indirect arty-___- wyverns and TFCs are really slowed now. though I guess Biovores got buffed.

I've heard this mentioned as a change, but I not finding it in the new rule book. The blast marker now hits models on all levels of terrain? Can you give me a section or page number to find this rule?

In 6th, barrage hit the top level of ruins because the rules said it did. In 7th, there is no such rule, so there's nothing preventing barrage from hitting all levels.

I thought this, but someone at my club mentioned that the book tells you to refer to stronghold assault? I've yet to find the reference myself though?

... for Barrages and Blasts? No. Get them to show you.
Don't ever trust someone that says "It's in there - trust me."

tag8833 wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Actually it'd be less than 67%, as you can possibly double up with each Hive Tyrant.

Your actual chance would be 55.56% I think.

I might have missed a rule. On my Mastery Level 2 Flyrant, I roll 2 dice for psychic powers. If both dice are the same, I reroll 1 of them. I can't get stuck with 2 copies of the same power on one model, can I?

Regardless, The chance of rolling Warp Blast on 1 dice is 1/6. On 4 dice it is 4 * 1/6 = 4/6 = 66.67%

What I'm saying is Tyrant A could possibly have 1 or even both powers the same as Tyrant B, so the actual chance is 2/6+(4/6*2/6) or 55.56% to get at least 1 Warp Blast.