Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi! I've seen quite few nice army lists while skimming through here, but I have a few questions for you guys.
1. What units are the most competitive? What combination of units make up the most competitive list? I'm not gonna lie, I like to win and knowing this can help me make a stronger list, while being able to make it fun as well.
2. It seems that both rippers and dimas are probably the most controversial units available to the tyranids but do you think there is any way to make them worth taking? Can you build a list around them to make them strong? Their models are just so darn cool! I know that the Dima discussion went on a few pages back but it seems like some new people have joined the conversation so I'll ask it again.
As always, thanks for your time.

The most competitive list possible imo:


Hive Tyrant, Wings, 2x TL-Devs, eGrubs
Hive Tyrant, Wings, 2x TL-Devs, eGrubs

Venomthrope
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope

10x Termagant
10x Termagant

2x Carnifex, TL-Devs
2x Carnifex, TL-Devs
Mawloc, Adrenal Glands

Living Artillery Formation:
Exocrine
3x Biovores
3x Tyranid Warrior, Venom Cannon



This comes to 1850 points. Where I have a Mawloc people often have something different like a Crone or a Garg squad, I personally think the Mawloc is by far the best option but it's to taste. Rolling for MoA on Warlord Traits is important as well.

I like Shuppet's list, I'd probably swap the Venom/Zoans for Malanthrope or two though

Boburrito wrote:
Hi! I've seen quite few nice army lists while skimming through here, but I have a few questions for you guys.
1. What units are the most competitive? What combination of units make up the most competitive list? I'm not gonna lie, I like to win and knowing this can help me make a stronger list, while being able to make it fun as well.
2. It seems that both rippers and dimas are probably the most controversial units available to the tyranids but do you think there is any way to make them worth taking? Can you build a list around them to make them strong? Their models are just so darn cool! I know that the Dima discussion went on a few pages back but it seems like some new people have joined the conversation so I'll ask it again.
As always, thanks for your time.

The usefulness of the Dima isn't related as much to the list around it as it is to the list on the other side of the table. Against drop pod marines or Meganobz, a Dima will wreck face. Thunderwolf calvary go down to a Dima, though they can kill him right back. The problem is he is next to worthless against gunlines, and not good against MSU. Unless you are going against one of his favorable matchups he contributes nothing until turn 3. 200 points is quite a bit to spend on something that takes 1/2 of the game off.

One trick depending on your opponent is to assault the Dima into a unit then take a large squad (gargoyles or gants) and multi-assault them into several units including the one the Dima just assaulted. That way he can pile-in from one combat to the next, also if he kills a bunch of models, sometimes he can sweep all of the units that the large squad engaged.

If you are running a Dima, it is probably worth it to consider running a Malanthrope and a squad of 20 Hormagants or Gargoyles with him to keep him alive and support him. Always throw the Malanthrope into combat alongside the Dima. Preferred enemy is quite a buff.

Boburrito wrote:
Hi! I've seen quite few nice army lists while skimming through here, but I have a few questions for you guys.
1. What units are the most competitive? What combination of units make up the most competitive list? I'm not gonna lie, I like to win and knowing this can help me make a stronger list, while being able to make it fun as well.
2. It seems that both rippers and dimas are probably the most controversial units available to the tyranids but do you think there is any way to make them worth taking? Can you build a list around them to make them strong? Their models are just so darn cool! I know that the Dima discussion went on a few pages back but it seems like some new people have joined the conversation so I'll ask it again.
As always, thanks for your time.

***************WALL OF TEXT ALERT****************

1. Flying Hive Tyrant. End of conversation. The issue is that this is such a strong unit that you can literally bring 3-4 (using double Combined Arms detachment or self-ally if your local TO decides to go that route) and then fill the rest of your army with almost whatever else you want (within reason, I mean we're not talking Pyrovores here). They are great at doing everything if you give them 2 Brainleech Devourers and a Electroshock Grubs thorax biomorph. You would gladly pay 960 points for 4 of those bad boys, unless you want the game to be more fun for your opponent.

I'll throw a quick 2 cents on the rest of the codex units here, as well as the forge world Dima and Malanthrope (the only two that are somewhat worthwhile, though there is some stone-crusher fex love floating around. The crushers just don't have math on their side)

Swarmlord - good at buffing other units and has a nice area denial zone (you won't get closer than ~18" of him, and that's not insignificant). However, slow, easy to kill so needs expensive body guards to allow him to live, and he's expensive already. Generally not points-efficient
Tyranid Prime - Essentially just a synapse source that is difficult to kill; however we are not lacking for that thanks to the Malanthrope. Way too expensive for just synapse, and his upgrades cost a lot if you want him to do anything else
Old One Eye - Doesn't have synapse, is expensive and has no gun....basically the definition of a distraction carnifex, only this time he's much more expensive
Tervigon - will usually be taken in the troops section if at all - just beware that some tournaments are ruling that the spawned Gants are not Objective: Secured, even though by RAW they certainly are. If this is true for you, mostly useless. He also did get a points increase from the previous codex, as well as the Gants losing any buffs that Mama Jamma has purchased as upgrades, so less attractive. But still not terrible.
Deathleaper - Some people have great success with him, some do not. Was better when Leadership tests meant more for Psykers, but can still be useful in the right list. Does not provide synapse but most lists that involve him won't need as much (and you can always go double Combined Arms Detachment and still take 3 Flyrants to make yourself feel better). Still somewhat expensive.

Tyranid Warriors - not a bad way to fill out some pretty durable troops. If they sit in cover and fire away while babysitting a squad of Biovores or Hive Guard, while securing an objective, it's not a bad idea at all. If there isn't ignores cover out there, they are tougher than people give them credit for
Genestealers - I want to love them and make them work. I will find a way to do it before this edition is over, I promise. They are, however, fragile and lack a reliable method of delivery without getting lit up. Also, they are expensive for how fragile they are
Termagants - nice now that you can give them mixed weapons in a squad, so the ones with the good guns can be protected by cheap meat shields. If nothing else, 80 points to make a battleforged list is not the worst. Gives you a lot of freedom to do other things. Keep them in reserve and it can work out nicely, but not as nicely as with....
Rippers! - 45 points gets you a deep-striking squad of three. If that wasn't good enough, they have stealth, are fearless, and their instinctive behavior means that they can essentially function outside of synapse quite well. Plop them down on whatever objective you want with their deep strike, and they will not run away. Really no contest with normal Termagants, who need a synapse babysitter to not run away, and can't deep strike for tactical flexibility.
Hormagants - I actually like these dudes, and I know some people have been running them with decent success. They are slightly more expensive, but have fleet and a bucket of attacks, plus the ability to be more than just little gribblies if you give them poison.


Hive Guard - Haywire at range? Or just str 8 ignores cover (sort of) and doesn't need LOS? Sign me up! I don't run these guys but that's just a play-style preference. I know a lot of people love them. The only downside is the relatively low range
Zoanthropes - Good warp charge batteries and synapse if you want to pull psychic shenanigans (and you do - it's much better than most people would lead you to believe). Somewhat fragile if only one per squad, and somewhat expensive with two or more due to the brotherhood of psykers rule
Venomthropes - People swear by these, and rightfully so. The shrouded bubble they provide is incredible. For added tom-foolery, you can put it in a bastion (greatly increasing it's durability and making the shrouded bubble extend from the walls of the bastion - dope!). Still decently attractive first blood bait if left exposed, especially against Ignores Cover weaponry
Malanthropes - Does anyone want to take all the good things about venomthropes, zoanthropes, put them together, and add more good things, for less than the cost of the two models combined? Yes, yes they do. The only real question is how many you need. I run one but two is not a bad idea either. You do lose being a psyker, but it's not the end of the world at all. One of the best units Tyranids have ever seen (forge world)
Lictors - sort of like Genestealers - they are an iconic unit that we ALL really want to work (though I have less faith in these guys than Genestealers) but are fragile, expensive and don't generally do what you would like them to.
Haruspex - doesn't really get the job done when it gets to close combat (which, sadly, is it's only job). I haven't heard much at all about these guys working out, but what a beautiful model
Pyrovores - just don't. You might think you want to, but the best use of a pyrovore model is a base for a conversion to a biovore

Shrikes - pretty expensive for their durability, but some people like them. I have very little experience with these guys so I will leave it at that
Raveners - With the advent of the malanthrope, I think we'll be finding more of these in people's lists. Give them a nice screen of gargoyles and they're rocking 3+ cover all the way into a turn 2 assault. Definitely worth consideration
Sky-slasher swarm - maybe if they were troops....
Gargoyes - what the flying hive tyrant is to the HQ section, these dudes are to the fast attack section. Great utility if you want them to have poison, or just a cheap and fast screening unit otherwise.
Harpy - If you're running the Skyblight Formation (which is very good) then sure, you'll take them (because you have to). Otherwise, their role is typically covered better by other units
Hive Crone - Great anti-air. I mean, you will just destroy anything else in the sky. And it's always nice to have some haywire missiles against ground targets, even if they aren't twin-linked against them. Flamer is also very good. Wish vector striking ground units was better, but it's still a pretty good unit.
Spore Mine Cluster - don't bother. Buy more biovores
Dimachaeron - certainly the most controversial unit Tyranids have seen in quite some time. Slow (thankfully has fleet) but otherwise it might as well be a gunless Carnifex with no default alternative deployment method (pray for Master of Ambush on the Strategic Warlord Traits Table, and 1/3 of the time your prayers will be answered if your army is battle-forged). The big upside is that when it gets to combat, it WRECKS FACE. If it gets there. BUT IF IT DOES, SWEET BABY JESUS. But it will often get gunned down before it gets there for that reason. Still, with T6 and hopefully some decent cover (like a malanthope + gargoyle screen giving it a 3+) it isn't that easy to take down, and it will take bullets away from your hive tyrants, which is very good. I'm a fan, but understand those who aren't

Carnifexes - Give them 12 STR6 twin-linked shots each on a fairly durable gun platform that can also wreck tanks and infantry with similar ease (though it's not as good against infantry). People will definitely pay 150 points for that, again and again. I mean, 3-4 of these guys and 3-4 hive tyrants with the same gun loadout means that you are forcing just shy of 70 armour saves on anything T4 or less, PER TURN. On average. Good luck with that. With a malanthrope they are also rather durable (sensing a theme, I hope)
Biovores - excellent cheap long range anti-infantry. In an age that is dominated by the exact opposite, their usefulness is somewhat lessened; however the mines can now block position, potentially waste an entire squad's turn, and frankly you will almost always have SOMETHING for them to shoot at. Almost always worth taking a squad in a Take-All-Comers list. The Living Artillery Formation just makes them even better.
Trygon - well, yeah. He is pretty sad because he doesn't bring much to the table and costs quite a bit. Not typically used at all
Trygon Prime - oh wait, he wasn't expensive enough? Now he is
Mawloc - quite controversial. The definition of "hit-or-miss" . When he hits, WOW! When he doesn't, well, that sucks. Sometimes you can get very lucky and have him hit, not quite clear everything, and then go right back into reserves to come back the next turn. The definition of living the dream, but it doesn't happen consistently
Exocrine - great anti-2+ armour. Even can take light mech/MC out nicely. Not great range, but what does have good range, honestly? The only real issue is that most 2+ armour isn't stupid enough to get near you or wander around outside of a land raider, so you have to work for it a little. But we don't play Nids because it's easy. Still a unit that many people like, especially in the Living Artillery Formation
Tyrannofex - nice in low point games due to its armor save (which sadly, we can't get anywhere else, no matter how much we might like to) and due to the decent amount of firepower that it can put out. Overall, it's not my style and I think it's somewhat overcosted, but people definitely do use this unit

So that was a little more than 2 cents but it's nice to have it all in one place (even if it's just an opinion that people will disagree with in the posts below). Generally speaking, the MO of tyranids is to have army-wide synergy and force-multipliers. Have the malanthrope cover up for weaknesses in other units - have the hive tyrant cast onslaught or catalyst so that you can get more out of the units around it. You want your whole army to be united in purpose. Just ask yourself - what is unit A going to do for me? Is there another unit that does that better/more cheaply? Do I already have another unit that does that? If so, do I want more saturation for that or do I have enough? If you have answers for everything that you're going to come across, you will be in every game. Just make sure that you ask the right questions, and we're always here to help

Staying up all night to be ready for night shift this week, so I had 5 hours to start and finish this guy!

 Chaplain Sam wrote:
I like Shuppet's list, I'd probably swap the Venom/Zoans for Malanthrope or two though

Yeah that's the other thing I meant to mention - a lot of people will prefer 1-2 Malanthropes in the Elites. I personally prefer the effeciency of 1 Venomthrope, doesn't matter even if it is the first model removed from the table, it will always be worth its points just in attracting a full units round of fire. The Zoanthropes are good for rolls on Catalyst and Onslaught for games that I don't get Master of Ambush, as well as the occasional utility with Paroxysm or the Horror (outflanking Psychic Scream Zoanthropes vs Tau can be hilarious too although a rare situation). I can see why people prefer the Malanthrope, for me I wouldn't trade my Venom + Zope for it any day in this list. However in other styles of play I think Malanthrope is often much better.



On the subject of Malanthropes,

lechine ! that looks amazing !!

I agree with SHUPPET, that Thrope looks awesome! I especially love that base

Ok, cool! Thanks guys, and that really is a nice looking Malanthrope, well done on that base!
So, correct me if I'm wrong but;
-Flyrants are always great
-LAN or Skyblight are good formations to take
-Biovores are great units but generally not in the current meta
-DakkaFexes are good
-Dima's are situational
-Mawlocs are just plain fun, but very dependent on the dice
So with that in mind I'll go see if I can make a few lists!
How do you guys feel about a 9 FMC list? I just did the math in my head so it might be wrong but...
CAD
2x -Flyrants (1 w/ Egrubs)
3x -Hive Crones
10x -termagants
10x -termagants
Skyblight formation
1x -Flyrant (1 stranglethorn cannon, one tld w/ blw)
2x -Harpies
1x -Hive crone
10x -Gargoyles
10x -Gargoyles
10x -Gargoyles
That comes out to 1850 I think. There's one flyrant per two other FMC's which is a good balance I think. I have 5 OS units which are pretty small but that isn't the focus of the army. It's the 9 FMC's . The Flyrant with the stranglethorn will pair up with the harpies and go infantry hunting while the one with egrubs goes specifically vehicle hunting with 2 of the hive crones and the last one can go do whatever he wants with the other 2. It kind of leaves the gargoyles and termagants to fend for their own without synapse (or atleast the termagants) but again, they aren't focus of the army, they're just there for battle forged. If I went Unbound I could take another flyrant and add on 2 e-grub biomorphs, but I'd rather not go unbound (so that I don't have to play against other unbound lists)
As always, thanks for your time.

Boburrito wrote:
Ok, cool! Thanks guys, and that really is a nice looking Malanthrope, well done on that base!
So, correct me if I'm wrong but;
-Flyrants are always great
-LAN or Skyblight are good formations to take
-Biovores are great units but generally not in the current meta
-DakkaFexes are good
-Dima's are situational
-Mawlocs are just plain fun, but very dependent on the dice
So with that in mind I'll go see if I can make a few lists!
How do you guys feel about a 9 FMC list? I just did the math in my head so it might be wrong but...
CAD
2x -Flyrants (1 w/ Egrubs)
3x -Hive Crones
10x -termagants
10x -termagants
Skyblight formation
1x -Flyrant (1 stranglethorn cannon, one tld w/ blw)
2x -Harpies
1x -Hive crone
10x -Gargoyles
10x -Gargoyles
10x -Gargoyles
That comes out to 1850 I think. There's one flyrant per two other FMC's which is a good balance I think. I have 5 OS units which are pretty small but that isn't the focus of the army. It's the 9 FMC's . The Flyrant with the stranglethorn will pair up with the harpies and go infantry hunting while the one with egrubs goes specifically vehicle hunting with 2 of the hive crones and the last one can go do whatever he wants with the other 2. It kind of leaves the gargoyles and termagants to fend for their own without synapse (or atleast the termagants) but again, they aren't focus of the army, they're just there for battle forged. If I went Unbound I could take another flyrant and add on 2 e-grub biomorphs, but I'd rather not go unbound (so that I don't have to play against other unbound lists)
As always, thanks for your time.

I think removing those E-Grub on the Flyrants and changing Termagants into Deepstriking Rippers would serve you better, a Termagants need babysitting whereas Rippers work well outside of Synapse while holding objectives. You do after all have 16 BS3 Haywire for the AV13/14 and S8 Vector Strike can glance AV14. If need be, you can always land and Smash vehicles anyway.

Also Twin-Linked Devourers in place of the Stranglethorn Cannon on the Flyrant, as you can still Snapshoot it if you ever need to Jink, but otherwise look like a solid Skyblight list :thumbs:

I've killed Wraithknights with my Dimachaeron. A little clever board control, get him in there, and he'll eat most any MC with ease. Especially when all of his To-Wound rolls cause Instant Death.

Well, time to come out of the woodworks again. I've been lurking around, here and there, and most of my friends assume I quit the game, since I haven't had a game at the shop in ages. I've yet to finish that Harridan, the thrice accursed beast (And lets not get started on the rest of my swarm). Anyhow, onto what I came here for. What would you guys say is a good solution for the following;

As most of the other old timers know, I have that preference for hordes, with an assault theme. As it stands, I have finally met my match in my best friend that I got into the game on Dark Angels, but since has gone and brought IG into the fold. With Grenade Launchers. And far too many flamers. So god dang many templates that I started running the numbers. On average, a decent blob (a full 30) of my termagants would wind up with roughly 75% casualties before getting stuck into assault. Against single squads. I really need to stop teaching people to stop thinking my 'Nids are so terrifying.

Anyhow, with every tactic comes its problems. I run light on Synapse, and heavy on the Swarms. My TMCs are sporadic, and almost always single assault units with the obligatory screens from my scuttling swarms, designed to follow the initial waves and go for the quick kills to continue a general heavy press into my opponents lines. Except now, much of my screens are disappearing long before the TMCs can get stuck into assault and finish them up on the opponents turn, giving them the option to soften them up first. My sole psychic phase strategy has been to simply outpower my opponent and fish for catalysts for early pushes and assaults.

What percentage of my army should I devote to screens, synapse, and TMCs, respectively? I used to run a roughly...60/20/20 split on those lines.

 Iechine wrote:
Staying up all night to be ready for night shift this week, so I had 5 hours to start and finish this guy!

Spoiler:

Looks fantastic Lechine!

Boburrito wrote:

CAD
2x -Flyrants (1 w/ Egrubs)
3x -Hive Crones
10x -termagants
10x -termagants
Skyblight formation
1x -Flyrant (1 stranglethorn cannon, one tld w/ blw)
2x -Harpies
1x -Hive crone
10x -Gargoyles
10x -Gargoyles
10x -Gargoyles
I have 5 OS units which are pretty small but that isn't the focus of the army.

This list is going to really struggle in Maelstrom missions. You have no synapse outside of the Flyrants so your Gargoyles and Termagants are likely to fail synapse and run away. You will generally have to table your opponent to win, or start landing you FMC's which defeats the point. Instead consider dropping 2 Crones for a Malanthrope (midfield synapse, buffer), and a Zoey (backfield synapse, buffer), and adding more gargoyles to use the remaining points.

One underrated feature of the Zoey is helping you cast Warp Lance / Blast from a flyrant. It doesn't count as firing a weapon so it is one extra shot for a 50 point unit that can also support and buff in its own right.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

luke1705 wrote:

Boburrito wrote:
Hi! I've seen quite few nice army lists while skimming through here, but I have a few questions for you guys.
1. What units are the most competitive? What combination of units make up the most competitive list? I'm not gonna lie, I like to win and knowing this can help me make a stronger list, while being able to make it fun as well.
2. It seems that both rippers and dimas are probably the most controversial units available to the tyranids but do you think there is any way to make them worth taking? Can you build a list around them to make them strong? Their models are just so darn cool! I know that the Dima discussion went on a few pages back but it seems like some new people have joined the conversation so I'll ask it again.
As always, thanks for your time.

Rippers! - 45 points gets you a deep-striking squad of three. If that wasn't good enough, they have stealth, are fearless, and their instinctive behavior means that they can essentially function outside of synapse quite well. Plop them down on whatever objective you want with their deep strike, and they will not run away. Really no contest with normal Termagants, who need a synapse babysitter to not run away, and can't deep strike for tactical flexibility.

Termagants can participate in the game beyond deep striking and scoring objectives. Termagants are survivable than Rippers. The advantage isn't as clear as you indicate. I would give termagants the advantage 80/20, but most people (especially those still playing Eternal War missions) go the other way.

luke1705 wrote:
Hive Guard - Haywire at range? Or just str 8 ignores cover (sort of) and doesn't need LOS? Sign me up! I don't run these guys but that's just a play-style preference. I know a lot of people love them. The only downside is the relatively low range

The biggest downside is Assault 2, BS 3, AP 4. So each Hive guard hits once on average and does 2/3 of a hull point to a rhino, or 1/2 of a hull point to a Wave Serpent with 0% chance of exploding it. How eager are you to spend 165 points on a unit that can kill at most 120 points of Rhinos in a game?

luke1705 wrote:
Shrikes - pretty expensive for their durability, but some people like them. I have very little experience with these guys so I will leave it at that

Shrikes do everything warriors do better. So if you like Warriors, you should love Shrikes.

luke1705 wrote:
Raveners - With the advent of the malanthrope, I think we'll be finding more of these in people's lists. Give them a nice screen of gargoyles and they're rocking 3+ cover all the way into a turn 2 assault. Definitely worth consideration

Shrikes are like higher leadership, more versatile Raveners with 1 less initiative and Synapse. Any time you are taking Raveners, add an equal or greater sized unit of Shrikes. If you decided to replace every ravener with a Shrike you wouldn't be doing anything wrong.

luke1705 wrote:
Gargoyes - what the flying hive tyrant is to the HQ section, these dudes are to the fast attack section. Great utility if you want them to have poison, or just a cheap and fast screening unit otherwise.

Also the best tarpit in the game. They can get there. They can get there in numbers, and they can blind.

Hey tag how useful do you find blind? I've never even bothered experimenting with it, do you blind with every attack? I just sink a few gargs into something and let it play it outself out generally, might have to start taking blind rolls

SHUPPET, I've got 120 points left on my current list and I'm looking into spending them on Gargoyles, which is the best option out of these four:

1) Two Broods of 10x models
2) One Brood of 20x models
3) One Brood of 15x Models with AG or TS
4) One Brood of 15 Models and ditch E-Grubs on Flyrants for a Zoanthrope

?

To give you the best answer to that question I'd need to see your whole list! However I can definitely tell you that ditching e-Grubs for 1.5 Gargoyles is a bad idea. Depending on your synapse, taking 13 Gargoyles (unlucky!) for a Zoanthrope or other form of Synapse might be a good idea. However, as far as all the top 3 go, the best answer is definitely #1. There is absolutely no benefit to running them as one squad, and the upgrades are overpriced. But it's fine to run them as a 20 man squad if you want to open up another fast attack squad, the difference is minimal.

 SHUPPET wrote:
To give you the best answer to that question I'd need to see your whole list! However I can definitely tell you that ditching e-Grubs for 1.5 Gargoyles is a bad idea. Depending on your synapse, taking 13 Gargoyles (unlucky!) for a Zoanthrope or other form of Synapse might be a good idea. However, as far as all the top 3 go, the best answer is definitely #1. There is absolutely no benefit to running them as one squad, and the upgrades are overpriced. But it's fine to run them as a 20 man squad if you want to open up another fast attack squad, the difference is minimal.

Ahh fair, well my list is in the spoiler. All my thoughts are in the spoiler, don't want to clog a post.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Hey tag how useful do you find blind? I've never even bothered experimenting with it, do you blind with every attack? I just sink a few gargs into something and let it play it outself out generally, might have to start taking blind rolls

You have to announce you are using blind. If you use blind on the charge, you give up your charge bonus, but otherwise it is the same attack (S3 ap:-). If you hit while using blind (no need to wound), then the opponent has to take an initiative test. If they fail then they are WS1 aka hitting on 5's. It is wonderful against a Riptide who is init 2. Also good against things that have init 1 because of unwieldy. For instance Thunder Hammer Space wolves.

It doesn't work so hot against higher init models like Wraith Knights, but I'm pretty sure it works on walkers, though I've never pulled it off.

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Well, time to come out of the woodworks again. I've been lurking around, here and there, and most of my friends assume I quit the game, since I haven't had a game at the shop in ages. I've yet to finish that Harridan, the thrice accursed beast (And lets not get started on the rest of my swarm). Anyhow, onto what I came here for. What would you guys say is a good solution for the following;

As most of the other old timers know, I have that preference for hordes, with an assault theme. As it stands, I have finally met my match in my best friend that I got into the game on Dark Angels, but since has gone and brought IG into the fold. With Grenade Launchers. And far too many flamers. So god dang many templates that I started running the numbers. On average, a decent blob (a full 30) of my termagants would wind up with roughly 75% casualties before getting stuck into assault. Against single squads. I really need to stop teaching people to stop thinking my 'Nids are so terrifying.

Anyhow, with every tactic comes its problems. I run light on Synapse, and heavy on the Swarms. My TMCs are sporadic, and almost always single assault units with the obligatory screens from my scuttling swarms, designed to follow the initial waves and go for the quick kills to continue a general heavy press into my opponents lines. Except now, much of my screens are disappearing long before the TMCs can get stuck into assault and finish them up on the opponents turn, giving them the option to soften them up first. My sole psychic phase strategy has been to simply outpower my opponent and fish for catalysts for early pushes and assaults.

What percentage of my army should I devote to screens, synapse, and TMCs, respectively? I used to run a roughly...60/20/20 split on those lines.

I don't know about percentages, but against that opponent I would definitely consider Biovores and a T-Fex with Acid Spray as one of your heavy hitters. That will help quite a bit with big Guard blobs. The T-Fex is tanky enough that you can run it out in front of a bunch of Gants to give them cover, too. If they charge it for some reason, Wall of Death them.

Frozocrone wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
To give you the best answer to that question I'd need to see your whole list! However I can definitely tell you that ditching e-Grubs for 1.5 Gargoyles is a bad idea. Depending on your synapse, taking 13 Gargoyles (unlucky!) for a Zoanthrope or other form of Synapse might be a good idea. However, as far as all the top 3 go, the best answer is definitely #1. There is absolutely no benefit to running them as one squad, and the upgrades are overpriced. But it's fine to run them as a 20 man squad if you want to open up another fast attack squad, the difference is minimal.

Ahh fair, well my list is in the spoiler. All my thoughts are in the spoiler, don't want to clog a post.

Spoiler:

Hive Tyrant
-Wings
-Twin-Linked Devourers with Brain Leechworms
-Twin-Linked Devourers with Brain Leechworms
-Electroshock Grubs
=240

Hive Tyrant
-Wings
-Twin-Linked Devourers with Brain Leechworms
-Twin-Linked Devourers with Brain Leechworms
-Electroshock Grubs
=240

Troops
Termagants x15
=60

Termagants x15
=60

Termagants x15
=60

Elites
Malanthrope
=85

Malanthrope
=85

Heavy Support
Carnifexes x2
-Twin Linked Devourers x2
-Twin Linked Devourers x2
=300

Carnifexes x2
-Twin Linked Devourers x2
-Twin Linked Devourers x2
=300

Carnifexes x2
-Twin-Linked Devourers x2
-Twin-Linked Devourers x2
=300

Which comes to 1730.

I'm looking at Gargoyles as they can tarpit dangerous units and are fast to boot.

I've got 3 units of Termagants bubble-wrapping the Carnifexes that are dishing out 24 S6 shots so it seems pretty good on paper

I would have liked to take either an Exocrine or Bastion/Aegis Defence Line, but the new local tournament is trying out a new rule set which is, only one CAD, no Allies, no Formations. But they also banned fortifications :s so I sort of went 'spam S6' Is an Exocrine a good stand alone unit?

Would it be worth it replacing a Carnifex Brood with some Hive Crones?

I played with your list on army builder a bit, Those restrictions are tough. Exocrine is a good standalone but not better than those Dakkafexes. And with no free formation ally or CAD slots, they aren't worth wasting on an Exocrine because the meat of your army needs to come from those 3 slots. You have ample Synapse btw. Would I ditch fexes for a Crone? No. But what I would do is ditch the additional 100 pts of Gants, turn the Malanhropes to a Venom/Zope/Zope load out, and grab a Harpy. The big loss from the Living Artillery is the AP anti-infantry clusters to support our Devourer spam, you can get away with no Exocrine for Power/Terminator armour since they aren't as common and more expensive so your Dakkafexes will trade well enough with them in CC and Dakkashots anyway, but it's really nice to have something that trades really efficiently with large numbers GEQ, and Harpy fills a very similar offensive role to the Biovores. Plus, this gives you 4 rolls for Onslaught which is amazing with 3 broods of Dakkafex. The Harpy can support an assault too with Dakkafexes if it comes to it, Screech reducing their iniative to 1 allowing Carnis to amazingly get the first strike lol!

The other option would be to condense the squads of Dakkafex into 2x3 and taking a squad of Biovores. As far as your Terms go, bubble wrap is nice, but not nicer than critical offensive coverage. Melta is bad vs Nids anyway as is acounter ssaults so don't put too much value into gribble screens, take them where you can get them but don't blow an extra 100 points on them.

This is all just my opinion and I'm sure someone is going to come in and disagree with it all. However i really like what you've gone for with your list, I feel like I can see all your reasoning with your choices and under the restrictions I think that's exactly what I would take (after the minor changes I suggested).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My changes bring it to 1745 btw.

 SHUPPET wrote:

Frozocrone wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
To give you the best answer to that question I'd need to see your whole list! However I can definitely tell you that ditching e-Grubs for 1.5 Gargoyles is a bad idea. Depending on your synapse, taking 13 Gargoyles (unlucky!) for a Zoanthrope or other form of Synapse might be a good idea. However, as far as all the top 3 go, the best answer is definitely #1. There is absolutely no benefit to running them as one squad, and the upgrades are overpriced. But it's fine to run them as a 20 man squad if you want to open up another fast attack squad, the difference is minimal.

Ahh fair, well my list is in the spoiler. All my thoughts are in the spoiler, don't want to clog a post.

Spoiler:

Hive Tyrant
-Wings
-Twin-Linked Devourers with Brain Leechworms
-Twin-Linked Devourers with Brain Leechworms
-Electroshock Grubs
=240

Hive Tyrant
-Wings
-Twin-Linked Devourers with Brain Leechworms
-Twin-Linked Devourers with Brain Leechworms
-Electroshock Grubs
=240

Troops
Termagants x15
=60

Termagants x15
=60

Termagants x15
=60

Elites
Malanthrope
=85

Malanthrope
=85

Heavy Support
Carnifexes x2
-Twin Linked Devourers x2
-Twin Linked Devourers x2
=300

Carnifexes x2
-Twin Linked Devourers x2
-Twin Linked Devourers x2
=300

Carnifexes x2
-Twin-Linked Devourers x2
-Twin-Linked Devourers x2
=300

Which comes to 1730.

I'm looking at Gargoyles as they can tarpit dangerous units and are fast to boot.

I've got 3 units of Termagants bubble-wrapping the Carnifexes that are dishing out 24 S6 shots so it seems pretty good on paper

I would have liked to take either an Exocrine or Bastion/Aegis Defence Line, but the new local tournament is trying out a new rule set which is, only one CAD, no Allies, no Formations. But they also banned fortifications :s so I sort of went 'spam S6' Is an Exocrine a good stand alone unit?

Would it be worth it replacing a Carnifex Brood with some Hive Crones?

I played with your list on army builder a bit, Those restrictions are tough. Exocrine is a good standalone but not better than those Dakkafexes. And with no free formation ally or CAD slots, they aren't worth wasting on an Exocrine because the meat of your army needs to come from those 3 slots. You have ample Synapse btw. Would I ditch fexes for a Crone? No. But what I would do is ditch the additional 100 pts of Gants, turn the Malanhropes to a Venom/Zope/Zope load out, and grab a Harpy. The big loss from the Living Artillery is the AP anti-infantry clusters to support our Devourer spam, you can get away with no Exocrine for Power/Terminator armour since they aren't as common and more expensive so your Dakkafexes will trade well enough with them in CC and Dakkashots anyway, but it's really nice to have something that trades really efficiently with large numbers GEQ, and Harpy fills a very similar offensive role to the Biovores. Plus, this gives you 4 rolls for Onslaught which is amazing with 3 broods of Dakkafex. The Harpy can support an assault too with Dakkafexes if it comes to it, Screech reducing their iniative to 1 allowing Carnis to amazingly get the first strike lol!

The other option would be to condense the squads of Dakkafex into 2x3 and taking a squad of Biovores. As far as your Terms go, bubble wrap is nice, but not nicer than critical offensive coverage. Melta is bad vs Nids anyway as is acounter ssaults so don't put too much value into gribble screens, take them where you can get them but don't blow an extra 100 points on them.

This is all just my opinion and I'm sure someone is going to come in and disagree with it all. However i really like what you've gone for with your list, I feel like I can see all your reasoning with your choices and under the restrictions I think that's exactly what I would take (after the minor changes I suggested).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My changes bring it to 1745 btw.

Thanks for the advice! I think a small unit of Gargoyles and Deepstriking Rippers could fill out the last points?

Which one would you personally go for, considering the changes to the Elites section and reduction of Troops, Harpy or Biovores?

Personally Id work it to two units of two Carnifexes and not add any more bodies to the table such as gargoyles. Im not a fan of that many gants on the table especially in a tournament setting for time considerations. Two flyrants, 4 fexes and something like a Tyranofex to tank bullets
and youve got a tough list. Your current one just doesnt have a lot of punch in my opinion, so maybe a large Biovore brood has a place.

SHUPPET wrote:

On the subject of Malanthropes,

lechine ! that looks amazing !!

Frozocrone wrote:I agree with SHUPPET, that Thrope looks awesome! I especially love that base

tag8833 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Hey tag how useful do you find blind? I've never even bothered experimenting with it, do you blind with every attack? I just sink a few gargs into something and let it play it outself out generally, might have to start taking blind rolls

You have to announce you are using blind. If you use blind on the charge, you give up your charge bonus, but otherwise it is the same attack (S3 ap:-). If you hit while using blind (no need to wound), then the opponent has to take an initiative test. If they fail then they are WS1 aka hitting on 5's. It is wonderful against a Riptide who is init 2. Also good against things that have init 1 because of unwieldy. For instance Thunder Hammer Space wolves.

It doesn't work so hot against higher init models like Wraith Knights, but I'm pretty sure it works on walkers, though I've never pulled it off.

Blind is pretty good. It was brutal in 6th Ed. when you had to make an Inititative check for each Blind hit. But now it's a single Initative check. What is nice, though, is that single models trade their attacks in for Blind attacks. So on the charge, you don't have to give up the whole unit's charge attacks. Instead, have 2 or 3 Gargoyles use their Blinding Venom in order to guarantee a hit and force at least one Initiative check, while the rest of the unit strikes with full attacks from the charge. The Blinding Venom is also Poison 6+ so you can kill things like Wraithknights or GUO's. Walkers are immune to Blind. Also, you mention Riptides - they are also immune to Blind due to their Black Sun Filters.

Also, i'm pretty positive that's not how it works with the Thunder Hammer / Unwieldy. Models strike at I1 - they aren't I1 for purposes of Initiative tests. For example, Typhus is I5, can deploy his Destroyer Hive at I5, or strike at I1 - he and his unit must fail their Initiative check on a 6.

tag8833 wrote:

Boburrito wrote:

CAD
2x -Flyrants (1 w/ Egrubs)
3x -Hive Crones
10x -termagants
10x -termagants
Skyblight formation
1x -Flyrant (1 stranglethorn cannon, one tld w/ blw)
2x -Harpies
1x -Hive crone
10x -Gargoyles
10x -Gargoyles
10x -Gargoyles
I have 5 OS units which are pretty small but that isn't the focus of the army.

This list is going to really struggle in Maelstrom missions. You have no synapse outside of the Flyrants so your Gargoyles and Termagants are likely to fail synapse and run away. You will generally have to table your opponent to win, or start landing you FMC's which defeats the point. Instead consider dropping 2 Crones for a Malanthrope (midfield synapse, buffer), and a Zoey (backfield synapse, buffer), and adding more gargoyles to use the remaining points.

One underrated feature of the Zoey is helping you cast Warp Lance / Blast from a flyrant. It doesn't count as firing a weapon so it is one extra shot for a 50 point unit that can also support and buff in its own right.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

luke1705 wrote:

Boburrito wrote:
Hi! I've seen quite few nice army lists while skimming through here, but I have a few questions for you guys.
1. What units are the most competitive? What combination of units make up the most competitive list? I'm not gonna lie, I like to win and knowing this can help me make a stronger list, while being able to make it fun as well.
2. It seems that both rippers and dimas are probably the most controversial units available to the tyranids but do you think there is any way to make them worth taking? Can you build a list around them to make them strong? Their models are just so darn cool! I know that the Dima discussion went on a few pages back but it seems like some new people have joined the conversation so I'll ask it again.
As always, thanks for your time.

Rippers! - 45 points gets you a deep-striking squad of three. If that wasn't good enough, they have stealth, are fearless, and their instinctive behavior means that they can essentially function outside of synapse quite well. Plop them down on whatever objective you want with their deep strike, and they will not run away. Really no contest with normal Termagants, who need a synapse babysitter to not run away, and can't deep strike for tactical flexibility.

Termagants can participate in the game beyond deep striking and scoring objectives. Termagants are survivable than Rippers. The advantage isn't as clear as you indicate. I would give termagants the advantage 80/20, but most people (especially those still playing Eternal War missions) go the other way.

luke1705 wrote:
Hive Guard - Haywire at range? Or just str 8 ignores cover (sort of) and doesn't need LOS? Sign me up! I don't run these guys but that's just a play-style preference. I know a lot of people love them. The only downside is the relatively low range

The biggest downside is Assault 2, BS 3, AP 4. So each Hive guard hits once on average and does 2/3 of a hull point to a rhino, or 1/2 of a hull point to a Wave Serpent with 0% chance of exploding it. How eager are you to spend 165 points on a unit that can kill at most 120 points of Rhinos in a game?

luke1705 wrote:
Shrikes - pretty expensive for their durability, but some people like them. I have very little experience with these guys so I will leave it at that

Shrikes do everything warriors do better. So if you like Warriors, you should love Shrikes.

luke1705 wrote:
Raveners - With the advent of the malanthrope, I think we'll be finding more of these in people's lists. Give them a nice screen of gargoyles and they're rocking 3+ cover all the way into a turn 2 assault. Definitely worth consideration

Shrikes are like higher leadership, more versatile Raveners with 1 less initiative and Synapse. Any time you are taking Raveners, add an equal or greater sized unit of Shrikes. If you decided to replace every ravener with a Shrike you wouldn't be doing anything wrong.

luke1705 wrote:
Gargoyes - what the flying hive tyrant is to the HQ section, these dudes are to the fast attack section. Great utility if you want them to have poison, or just a cheap and fast screening unit otherwise.

Also the best tarpit in the game. They can get there. They can get there in numbers, and they can blind.

tag8833 wrote:
Termagants can participate in the game beyond deep striking and scoring objectives. Termagants are survivable than Rippers. The advantage isn't as clear as you indicate. I would give termagants the advantage 80/20, but most people (especially those still playing Eternal War missions) go the other way.

Termagants can do a slightly better job acting as a funnel or bubblewrap. But taking broods of 10 doesn't make for much of a tarpit or bubblewrap.
And termagants can't do anything 'beyond' deepstriking, because they can't do that. Anything they do they do in place of the mobility provided by DS.
But the harshest problem, is you can't take 'just' gaunts, they have to have a synapse babysitter, so the comparison is between 2 broods of rippers, or 2 broods of gaunts *and* enough synapse to keep them under control.

As for survivability... that depends. They both have about the same number of wounds, but rippers are more susceptible to S6+ shooting and blasts, but in return are much easier to hide out of LoS and are not slowed by diff terrain. And, as mentioned, can go and hide places without need of a babysitter. And with DS, they can be kept off the board and safe for 2-4 turns and still be where you want them later.

The biggest downside is Assault 2, BS 3, AP 4. So each Hive guard hits once on average and does 2/3 of a hull point to a rhino, or 1/2 of a hull point to a Wave Serpent with 0% chance of exploding it. How eager are you to spend 165 points on a unit that can kill at most 120 points of Rhinos in a game?

That is horrible comparison. A flyrant is 230pts, and will only take out 210pts of rhinos in a game.
And you have skipped over cover saves. That same flyrant will only get .6 HP from the wave serpent once you account for the cover save. Those 3 Hive Guard will do 1.5 HP to that same wave serpent, since they ignore cover saves.
Plus hive guard can ID T4 models, and deal damage to units relying on their cover saves for protection.

Shrikes do everything warriors do better. So if you like Warriors, you should love Shrikes.

Except provide Objective Secured, fulfill a troop requirement, have a better save, and unlock various formations.
Granted, I have switched one of my MSU warrior broods for an MSU shrike brood, but there are some downsides also.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wilson wrote:

Really? I don't consider synapse an issue on LD10 Fearless MC's. Nor do I on re-spawning Gargoyles.
Warriors for Synapse on a fast moving army? :S You must be high!

Until you realize you have 6 of those, which means if they are all out of synapse, you will fail one IB test per turn. Granted, they will not all be out, but even if half are out, that is a fail every other turn.
And those gargs are not re-spawning, they are 50%-re-spawning, every time they go away, there is a good chance they are gone for good. Gargs are IB-hunt, so they will stick around for a failed IB, but will still break morale from shooting or CC.

 Wilson wrote:

Spoiler:

pinecone77 wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

Boburrito wrote:

CAD
2x -Flyrants (1 w/ Egrubs)
3x -Hive Crones
10x -termagants
10x -termagants
Skyblight formation
1x -Flyrant (1 stranglethorn cannon, one tld w/ blw)
2x -Harpies
1x -Hive crone
10x -Gargoyles
10x -Gargoyles
10x -Gargoyles
I have 5 OS units which are pretty small but that isn't the focus of the army.

This list is going to really struggle in Maelstrom missions. You have no synapse outside of the Flyrants so your Gargoyles and Termagants are likely to fail synapse and run away. You will generally have to table your opponent to win, or start landing you FMC's which defeats the point. Instead consider dropping 2 Crones for a Malanthrope (midfield synapse, buffer), and a Zoey (backfield synapse, buffer), and adding more gargoyles to use the remaining points.

One underrated feature of the Zoey is helping you cast Warp Lance / Blast from a flyrant. It doesn't count as firing a weapon so it is one extra shot for a 50 point unit that can also support and buff in its own right.

luke1705 wrote:

Boburrito wrote:
Hi! I've seen quite few nice army lists while skimming through here, but I have a few questions for you guys.
1. What units are the most competitive? What combination of units make up the most competitive list? I'm not gonna lie, I like to win and knowing this can help me make a stronger list, while being able to make it fun as well.
2. It seems that both rippers and dimas are probably the most controversial units available to the tyranids but do you think there is any way to make them worth taking? Can you build a list around them to make them strong? Their models are just so darn cool! I know that the Dima discussion went on a few pages back but it seems like some new people have joined the conversation so I'll ask it again.
As always, thanks for your time.

Rippers! - 45 points gets you a deep-striking squad of three. If that wasn't good enough, they have stealth, are fearless, and their instinctive behavior means that they can essentially function outside of synapse quite well. Plop them down on whatever objective you want with their deep strike, and they will not run away. Really no contest with normal Termagants, who need a synapse babysitter to not run away, and can't deep strike for tactical flexibility.

Termagants can participate in the game beyond deep striking and scoring objectives. Termagants are survivable than Rippers. The advantage isn't as clear as you indicate. I would give termagants the advantage 80/20, but most people (especially those still playing Eternal War missions) go the other way.

luke1705 wrote:
Hive Guard - Haywire at range? Or just str 8 ignores cover (sort of) and doesn't need LOS? Sign me up! I don't run these guys but that's just a play-style preference. I know a lot of people love them. The only downside is the relatively low range

The biggest downside is Assault 2, BS 3, AP 4. So each Hive guard hits once on average and does 2/3 of a hull point to a rhino, or 1/2 of a hull point to a Wave Serpent with 0% chance of exploding it. How eager are you to spend 165 points on a unit that can kill at most 120 points of Rhinos in a game?

luke1705 wrote:
Shrikes - pretty expensive for their durability, but some people like them. I have very little experience with these guys so I will leave it at that

Shrikes do everything warriors do better. So if you like Warriors, you should love Shrikes.

luke1705 wrote:
Raveners - With the advent of the malanthrope, I think we'll be finding more of these in people's lists. Give them a nice screen of gargoyles and they're rocking 3+ cover all the way into a turn 2 assault. Definitely worth consideration

Shrikes are like higher leadership, more versatile Raveners with 1 less initiative and Synapse. Any time you are taking Raveners, add an equal or greater sized unit of Shrikes. If you decided to replace every ravener with a Shrike you wouldn't be doing anything wrong.

luke1705 wrote:
Gargoyes - what the flying hive tyrant is to the HQ section, these dudes are to the fast attack section. Great utility if you want them to have poison, or just a cheap and fast screening unit otherwise.

Also the best tarpit in the game. They can get there. They can get there in numbers, and they can blind.

Yes, one of the "unspoken" issues with Skyblight is Synapse. That is why I usually suggest two Broods of Warriors for the mandated Troops.....expensive, but Synapse (plus Cannons)

Really? I don't consider synapse an issue on LD10 Fearless MC's. Nor do I on re-spawning Gargoyles.
Warriors for Synapse on a fast moving army? :S You must be high!

Warriors are a decent suggestion. I prefer a zoey for the reasons I specified, but warriors are more survivable and have OS. I would go with 1 brood rather than 2.

You should be worried about synapse on respawning gargoyles. They fail synapse 60% of the time. 1/2 of those failures run away, and the rest mean that they can't charge and tarpit or eat overwatch or claim a controlled objective. Also they only respawn 1/2 of the time. But more important, is the way for Skyblight to get into the air is Shrouded + Jink for a 2+ cover save against alpha strikes. No shrouded = lose 2 FMC's on turn 1 when your opponent gets 1st turn.

NOTE: I know that the key to playing skyblight for many players is to "forget" about instinctive behavior and hope your opponent doesn't call you on it, but I would never advocate that, nor would I do it intentionally.

 Wilson wrote:

Spoiler:

pinecone77 wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

Boburrito wrote:

CAD
2x -Flyrants (1 w/ Egrubs)
3x -Hive Crones
10x -termagants
10x -termagants
Skyblight formation
1x -Flyrant (1 stranglethorn cannon, one tld w/ blw)
2x -Harpies
1x -Hive crone
10x -Gargoyles
10x -Gargoyles
10x -Gargoyles
I have 5 OS units which are pretty small but that isn't the focus of the army.

This list is going to really struggle in Maelstrom missions. You have no synapse outside of the Flyrants so your Gargoyles and Termagants are likely to fail synapse and run away. You will generally have to table your opponent to win, or start landing you FMC's which defeats the point. Instead consider dropping 2 Crones for a Malanthrope (midfield synapse, buffer), and a Zoey (backfield synapse, buffer), and adding more gargoyles to use the remaining points.

One underrated feature of the Zoey is helping you cast Warp Lance / Blast from a flyrant. It doesn't count as firing a weapon so it is one extra shot for a 50 point unit that can also support and buff in its own right.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

luke1705 wrote:

Boburrito wrote:
Hi! I've seen quite few nice army lists while skimming through here, but I have a few questions for you guys.
1. What units are the most competitive? What combination of units make up the most competitive list? I'm not gonna lie, I like to win and knowing this can help me make a stronger list, while being able to make it fun as well.
2. It seems that both rippers and dimas are probably the most controversial units available to the tyranids but do you think there is any way to make them worth taking? Can you build a list around them to make them strong? Their models are just so darn cool! I know that the Dima discussion went on a few pages back but it seems like some new people have joined the conversation so I'll ask it again.
As always, thanks for your time.

Rippers! - 45 points gets you a deep-striking squad of three. If that wasn't good enough, they have stealth, are fearless, and their instinctive behavior means that they can essentially function outside of synapse quite well. Plop them down on whatever objective you want with their deep strike, and they will not run away. Really no contest with normal Termagants, who need a synapse babysitter to not run away, and can't deep strike for tactical flexibility.

Termagants can participate in the game beyond deep striking and scoring objectives. Termagants are survivable than Rippers. The advantage isn't as clear as you indicate. I would give termagants the advantage 80/20, but most people (especially those still playing Eternal War missions) go the other way.

luke1705 wrote:
Hive Guard - Haywire at range? Or just str 8 ignores cover (sort of) and doesn't need LOS? Sign me up! I don't run these guys but that's just a play-style preference. I know a lot of people love them. The only downside is the relatively low range

The biggest downside is Assault 2, BS 3, AP 4. So each Hive guard hits once on average and does 2/3 of a hull point to a rhino, or 1/2 of a hull point to a Wave Serpent with 0% chance of exploding it. How eager are you to spend 165 points on a unit that can kill at most 120 points of Rhinos in a game?

luke1705 wrote:
Shrikes - pretty expensive for their durability, but some people like them. I have very little experience with these guys so I will leave it at that

Shrikes do everything warriors do better. So if you like Warriors, you should love Shrikes.

luke1705 wrote:
Raveners - With the advent of the malanthrope, I think we'll be finding more of these in people's lists. Give them a nice screen of gargoyles and they're rocking 3+ cover all the way into a turn 2 assault. Definitely worth consideration

Shrikes are like higher leadership, more versatile Raveners with 1 less initiative and Synapse. Any time you are taking Raveners, add an equal or greater sized unit of Shrikes. If you decided to replace every ravener with a Shrike you wouldn't be doing anything wrong.

luke1705 wrote:
Gargoyes - what the flying hive tyrant is to the HQ section, these dudes are to the fast attack section. Great utility if you want them to have poison, or just a cheap and fast screening unit otherwise.

Also the best tarpit in the game. They can get there. They can get there in numbers, and they can blind.

Yes, one of the "unspoken" issues with Skyblight is Synapse. That is why I usually suggest two Broods of Warriors for the mandated Troops.....expensive, but Synapse (plus Cannons)

NOTE: I know that the key to playing skyblight for many players is to "forget" about instinctive behavior and hope your opponent doesn't call you on it, but I would never advocate that, nor would I do it intentionally.

Is that a well known thing? and I thought I was alone! haha RATS! MOD delete these posts! The other players are on to us!!!