Switch Theme:

The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




tag8833 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 SHUPPET wrote:
I think if Haruspex was the only MC we had with a 12" move he'd definitely be considerable, getting a couple of T6 tanks into CC turn 2 is at the very least, going to deny a bunch of shooting, even if they can't wreck tanks like Fexes can
Haruspex has S7 armorbane. He can deal with vehicles fairly well.


It has always struck me that both the Pyrovore and the now the Haruspex were spec'ed expecting a lot of Cities of Death, Planet Strike or Stronghold type games. Basigcly things with lots of static high AV and fire ports.
   
Made in au
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





Preferred Enemy and Armour Bane fixes Trygons, to make up for the loss of ScyTals and Smash.

They cost about 150% the price of a Mawloc, they deserve it. They NEED it.

The rest are all very true. Although I'd argue that the HVC might need Heavy 4.

Tervigon needs a big point reduction and/or his Gant buffing back. He was nerfed hard enough by Crushing Claws/Smash/Feeback/Loss of Catalyst, he didn't need a points increase, and to provide nothing to his gants except an increased Nuke on top of that.

A couple of HQ's just need points reductions. T Prime and Deathleaper should both be <100. Another big issue for the Prime is that his role is as our customisable wargear HQ, and all our wargear fckin sucks, and thats what really needs to be looked at here.


Swarmlord however needs a lot of things, not least of which being a decent Psyker table to support his role (like, BRB powers). At the moment where he sits is as not just the worst model in the dex, but possible contender for the worst in the GAME. I'm not even sure where to begin with this guy, but taking somewhere around 50 to 100 points off his cost would be a good start, as would be severely revamping his support abilities, and strongly consider giving him access to the BrB tables, which would kind of be explainable since he is the most akin and attuned to the understanding and workings of the human race, and the rest of the universe, out of all the Nids ever created

Old One Eye is in a similar boat. He could cost LESS than a Dakkafex and still unlikely see play. Unless they give him TL-Devs and make him the Arnorld-Swaznegger-Terminator of Carnifexes who went on that rampage shooting the place up with his Devourers, regenerating, and being a badass tanky little Fex, then his role is pretty useless. There isn't much room for 6" moving assault range Heavy AT, it's narrow in its role, easy to avoid, and adds nothing else, which is why TL-Dev's make Fexes so good.


Walkrant sits in this category of walking CC beast, and unlike others, I would like to argue that the 2+ is not what killed this model at all, in a time of AP2 feeling like its more common than AP3 anyway. 2+ save or not, taking a Walkrant is a concious decision to sacrifice mobility by not taking wings instead. He has Tyrant Guard to tank for him, who are balanced, just he himself, is not worth spending all those points on alone, let alone giving him an honour guard. No, he needs something to make him do his role better than a Swarmlord. I would argue that he was never very good even in 5E dex, but the biggest loss to him was indisputably Old Enemy. That AOE Preferred Enemy bubble was perfect for supporting an entire walking army, now he has nothing. He needs not just that option back, but also I think one more thing similar. Being an ML3 Psyker for a 50/50 chance of Catalyst, and maybe a Furious Charge or activatable Rage bubble (might be more balanced and extremely cool and fluffy, directing all units in Synapse range of him into a feeding frenzy for a turn). The role you need him for if you choose not to make him your highly mobile winged Devourer predator of the board, is definitely one of support and utility, being a Synapse provider is already there, a decent table is already there, he just needs a few tweaks for this role, to pay off for his delayed arrival across the board

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/10/24 07:54:17


P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





NJ

The problem with tossing out eternal warrior for synapse creatures is that there's no real place for it to stop. A much easier fix would be to make models like the Warriors or Ravenors toughness 5, giving much of the same end-effect. Also, there has been a marked effort by GW to get rid of Eternal Warrior. It's especially stupid when you look at the Daemons codex. Skarbrand can't even get it (not that he really needs it but still - that dude should have it).

My point is that you can't have warriors have eternal warrior but then not have Flyrants have it. I do believe that GW considered it (as well as hopefully a modified eternal warrior to creatures within synapse) but no luck. That being said, it would increase our power level, which isn't top-tier right now but we're not too shabby either.

Edited to remove a proposed table because I realized it didn't function properly - it's late

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/24 05:47:51


 
   
Made in ca
Rampaging Carnifex




West Coast, Canada

I don't think we need more tables and record keeping.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




luke1705 wrote:
The problem with tossing out eternal warrior for synapse creatures is that there's no real place for it to stop. A much easier fix would be to make models like the Warriors or Ravenors toughness 5, giving much of the same end-effect. Also, there has been a marked effort by GW to get rid of Eternal Warrior. It's especially stupid when you look at the Daemons codex. Skarbrand can't even get it (not that he really needs it but still - that dude should have it).

My point is that you can't have warriors have eternal warrior but then not have Flyrants have it. I do believe that GW considered it (as well as hopefully a modified eternal warrior to creatures within synapse) but no luck. That being said, it would increase our power level, which isn't top-tier right now but we're not too shabby either.

Edited to remove a proposed table because I realized it didn't function properly - it's late


I doubt it was considered at all. 4e it was stable and not much of an issue. Just go back to 2 wounds and Synapse EW on the the T4 units. It has little to no effect on the big T6 MCs. and only minimal toughness increase on the T5.
   
Made in au
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





SBG wrote:
I don't think we need more tables and record keeping.

Not sure what suggestion this is in response to - but I literally see nothing suggested by anyone that would do this

P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wichita, KS

 SHUPPET wrote:
SBG wrote:
I don't think we need more tables and record keeping.

Not sure what suggestion this is in response to - but I literally see nothing suggested by anyone that would do this

I suggested it as a joke. Because everyone hates looking things up on tables except for the rules designers.
   
Made in us
Implacable Black Templar Initiate




Central Illinois

 Wilson wrote:
luke1705 wrote:
I saw that rumor and am very excited about whatever the new dude is (especially because the last time we got a release, the rumors were that we would get something that could stand toe-to-toe with a wraithknight and we got....the Haruspex. Fail) I had heard that there would be two models (so most likely a dual kit) and that it would be pretty soon. Remember tha 7 weeks from now is early-mid December. Sounds like Christmas will be merry. Although TBH, all I want is for Forgeworld to release a letter that says,

Dear Tyranid players,

We realize that we were very wrong and having a Monstrous Creature with no guns only move 6" (in the Fast Attack slot no less) is very silly. As a result, the rules PDF has been updated and the Dimachaeron now has a 12" move.

Thank you for your support,
Forge World


Add;

And to show you how sorry we are, please find attached flesh hooks, fearless and GMC status at no extra cost.


This is what I was saying several pages back is that Tyranids needed a counter to the wraightknight not a wraith knight like model. Amazing how a 12 inch move would change the way we play.

Front line flyers
Dimas as the second wave
Fexen in the third wave

Would be OMG almost like a big swarm and endless tide...oh is that called fluff.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
luke1705 wrote:
The problem with tossing out eternal warrior for synapse creatures is that there's no real place for it to stop. A much easier fix would be to make models like the Warriors or Ravenors toughness 5, giving much of the same end-effect. Also, there has been a marked effort by GW to get rid of Eternal Warrior. It's especially stupid when you look at the Daemons codex. Skarbrand can't even get it (not that he really needs it but still - that dude should have it).

My point is that you can't have warriors have eternal warrior but then not have Flyrants have it. I do believe that GW considered it (as well as hopefully a modified eternal warrior to creatures within synapse) but no luck. That being said, it would increase our power level, which isn't top-tier right now but we're not too shabby either.

Edited to remove a proposed table because I realized it didn't function properly - it's late


The justification for removing EW from synapse was giving the models another wound. That has not worked. There is so much strength 8 in the game that warriors melt. Ravenors being T5 would have to drop to 1w with there speed because you could never stop them from hitting your lines with t5 and 3w.

I look at them and screamers and they have similar stat lines and movement but screamers have better utility with a ap2 str5 armor bane attack. I know rending is supposed to be similar but it does not compete. That is the type of utility Tyranids need.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/24 13:30:47


Words of wisdom by Prophet40k

That game put my faith in Khorne to the test. My table-neighbor looked at the match up and said "Here you're going to need these more than I will" and handed me a bag of Jello shots. They must have pleased Khorne because I walked out 11-2.


Now looking at another list with MORE tyrants and MORE mawlocks, I said to myself. "Oh well looks like it's time for another beer. It'll take the sting out of this. LOL"  
   
Made in ca
Raging Ravener





 SHUPPET wrote:


Swarmlord however needs a lot of things, not least of which being a decent Psyker table to support his role (like, BRB powers). At the moment where he sits is as not just the worst model in the dex, but possible contender for the worst in the GAME. I'm not even sure where to begin with this guy, but taking somewhere around 50 to 100 points off his cost would be a good start, as would be severely revamping his support abilities, and strongly consider giving him access to the BrB tables, which would kind of be explainable since he is the most akin and attuned to the understanding and workings of the human race, and the rest of the universe, out of all the Nids ever created.


Have you ever tried swarmlord in 7th ed ? I have and he is absolutely AMAZING! I have killed 2 wraithknights in the same game with him. Most of the time he gets on the board where you want him to be and your opponent is usually scared the hell out of him after seeing what he does in melee. He is FAR from the worst unit in the game! How can a beefy lvl 3 psyker that inflicts auto ap2, instant death with a crazy number of attacks be the worst unit in the game?! This baby is AWESOME !
   
Made in au
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





How can a beefy lvl 3 psyker that inflicts auto ap2, instant death with a crazy number of attacks be the worst unit in the game?!

And there it is.


Remember the most important stat, on any model - its POINTS.


That's one of many reasons it sucks, the value of what you get is tiny. Every MC has auto AP2 , and he has less attacks and wounds than the same amount of points put into, well practically any of the good MC's in our dex. Obviously more weapon skills, but hey - there isn't a single playable MC in our dex that is strictly CC, and it's not because they don't hit hard enough, it's because if we make it to CC we generally win anyway, our options for shooting are much better, and the reliability of having any choice in targets with a 6" movespeed MC is close to nothing. And if there was to be one a 300 point one with 5 wounds. You are paying 56 points a wound - thats more than DOUBLE some of our better MC's in the dex, making Swarmy stupidly thin for his points. You can't catch anything important your opponent doesn't stupidly let you catch, his support abilities while not 100% useless are more like 75% useless and unlikely to have any bearing on a game, and he has 3 rolls on a table that does almost nothing for him, the best one being a 5+ FNP which assuming you got every game, still doesn't even come close to making him have any sort of cost effective durability, and all for a model that in CC may not even hit as hard as the Dima. The Dima who is also a gimmicky fun model that relies on your opponent playing a CC army or playing his shooty army, badly, but is still leagues better than Swarmlords joke of a ruleset.




Tried it in 7th? I don't see how this is at all relevant, since I tried him a lot in 6th, and then since hes gotten worse in absolutely every single way from early 6th > to our codex release in late 6th > all the way to 7th, hes gotten substantially shittier.


Your report is not enough to change my opinion, if he was the type of unit to kill 2 Wraithknights or something similar consistently he would be much better, but how it even got into combat with one 12" moving jump MC, let alone the second one shortly after that is one hell of a question.


Just because a model does a lot of gak doesn't mean it can't be bad. And in this case, really bad. At 150 points he'd be considerable. Flyrants would still be better, but he'd be considerable, as a niche fun unit, taken with some Tyrant Guard of course. At double that in cost, he's just... junk. Absolute basura. Hands down worse than any Pyrovore, Haruspex, Trygon Prime, every piece of crap model we have in our dex, he is worse than. At least Pyrovore doesn't blow 1/4 of your points (after factoring in the mandatory Tyrant Guard) and force you to take only 1 Flyrant.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/24 14:53:33


P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Grand Rapids Metro

Actually, Swarmy adds a lot to an army, his biggest pitfall however is that his inclusion demands you build the army around him. His biggest upsell is that it means you can skip certain naturally taken upgrades due to his force multipliers.

Come play games in West Michigan at https://www.facebook.com/tcpgrwarroom 
   
Made in au
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





"Actually, no."

Ok then. That trumps my logic, hands down.

P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wichita, KS

 ductvader wrote:
Actually, Swarmy adds a lot to an army, his biggest pitfall however is that his inclusion demands you build the army around him. His biggest upsell is that it means you can skip certain naturally taken upgrades due to his force multipliers.

I easily win 75% of my games where I include swarmlord in my army. He is much better in Maelstrom than Eternal War, and works much like a Dimacharon with a few advantages and disadvantages. I'll write a Swarmlord tactica in a few days. But as I've said before, while he may be overcosted, he is nowhere near the most overcosted unit in our dex. The one thing that swarmlord needs more than anything else is Eternal Warrior. about 7/8 times he dies it is to a force weapon.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/24 15:27:29


 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Grand Rapids Metro

tag8833 wrote:
 ductvader wrote:
Actually, Swarmy adds a lot to an army, his biggest pitfall however is that his inclusion demands you build the army around him. His biggest upsell is that it means you can skip certain naturally taken upgrades due to his force multipliers.
The one thing that swarmlord needs more than anything else is Eternal Warrior. about 7/8 times he dies it is to a force weapon.
Agreed, and he deserves it...or OOE...at least one of them should have it.

Come play games in West Michigan at https://www.facebook.com/tcpgrwarroom 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




I'd love to know exactly what you're playing against to get that kind of win percentage...
   
Made in au
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





zerosignal wrote:
I'd love to know exactly what you're playing against to get that kind of win percentage...


Agreed. While I win a lot of games and could just use my ratiios to support any unit decisions I make, 40k isn't CoD and I am quite capable of separating the games that I won, from the ones that my opponent LOST by being at a lower level than me. I feel confident I could build a list with three Haruspex in it and maintain a very positive ratio against certain members of my club - that really doesn't have any bearing on the strength of the Spexy tho does it.

And it's not just about the list they were playing, your opponent can be playing competitive Eldar, if he walks two Wraithknights into a Swarmlord like he's a potato, he's done the very opposite of what his actual play should have been, and that is just forcing you to play a 1000 pt list in a 1500 pt game because you chose to take a Swarmlord (adjust numbers where relevant). It's very easy for most armies to do especially Eldar, he's a 6" move + run no fleet kinda guy, why would you ever be in a situation where you left 2 Wraithknights in charge range of him, especially considering the entire rest of a Tyranid army has to be moving up the board with him or they are wasted points, meaning you would really never be forced to do this even if you did feel target priority on something else was so drastic that it's worth throwing away a WK for - it STILL shouldn't happen. But even assuming this WASNT the case with Nids and they did have plenty of critical backfield threats (lol) - believe or not there would almost always be more options than a choice between just "being out of range" and "being in charge range of a Swarmlord". These options may or may not fall under the category of "putting thought into the positioning of your minis". Rather than just doing an automated 12" move directly towards your target every turn until it dies as if you're the Terminator, to make sure all guns are in range and eventually deny his cover save through point blank range face to face line of sight (at least. I think that's why people do this, god help me I can't think of any other reason).


Tactica or no, until I see a battle report or two showing how all the logic behind him sucking is inaccurate due to some amazing advantage he brings to your list that I've just been missing, I'm remaining securely unconvinced that he is at all playable, or anything close to a 75% win rate. If you aren't playing blood angels or Orks he should never en come close to making his points back. And even then, he shouldn't. The decision to take a Swarmlord is a conscious decision to sacrifice 24 twin linked S6 shots getting fired every single turn that Swarmlord is waddling up the field (except the first), for a payoff on the model that is literally THE LEAST likely model to make it into combat in the game. Slowest type of model in the game, can't even make it past bubble wraps, base so big making bubble wraps easier, absolutely no form of transport or mobility, and him and his honor guard are 400 points minimum of "avoid charge range of me please" in an entire army that already has "stay out of 18" from me please". He'd be better in a different army, although still worthless, he'd be better.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2014/10/24 17:54:31


P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Central Oregon

Alright fellow bugs, Im about to head out to PA for the Mechanicon. I'll do my best to represent. 8)

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





TN/AL/MS state line.

 Iechine wrote:
Alright fellow bugs, Im about to head out to PA for the Mechanicon. I'll do my best to represent. 8)

Care to share your list?

Black Bases and Grey Plastic Forever:My quaint little hobby blog.

40k- The Kumunga Swarm (more)
Count Mortimer’s Private Security Force/Excavation Team (building)
Kabal of the Grieving Widow (less)

Plus other games- miniature and cardboard both. 
   
Made in ca
Rampaging Carnifex




West Coast, Canada

Good luck!

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





TN/AL/MS state line.

Nevermind, it's on up the page.

Black Bases and Grey Plastic Forever:My quaint little hobby blog.

40k- The Kumunga Swarm (more)
Count Mortimer’s Private Security Force/Excavation Team (building)
Kabal of the Grieving Widow (less)

Plus other games- miniature and cardboard both. 
   
Made in mx
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan




Mexico

 NightWrench wrote:


The justification for removing EW from synapse was giving the models another wound. That has not worked.

It would have worked if the warriors hadn't suffered a 50% price increase. If current multi-wound infantry was 33% cheaper they at least would be fielded more often.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wichita, KS

zerosignal wrote:
I'd love to know exactly what you're playing against to get that kind of win percentage...

I posted my standard TAC lists a few pages back, when I run Swarmy it is in fluffier games with the exception of Drop Pod Marines who get demolished by one of my Swarmy lists. I took swarmy to a tournament a while back. Tied for 3rd place by radically outscoring all of my opponents except for serpent spam Eldar, who I was beating until he managed to kill Swarmy on turn 4.

If i'm taking a swarmlord list I'm usually running a hoard army, and I'm either going to control the center of the board or get tabled. In my meta where Maelstrom is the preferred mission among fluffier armies, central board control with many large scoring units creates a dominant position that is difficult for my opponents to contend with.

The most important thing about Swarmlord that makes him a good choice for a player who is more competitive than his meta is by running a swarmlord list with a hoard army, you can win lots and lots of games without leaving opponents feel upset they lost. Because Swarmy + Hoard has trouble with vehicles, and limited speed, and isn't usually tabling anyone. Also, Swarmy + Hoard, you are going to lose a vast majority of your models in most games, even in victory. In those cases the opponent feels a sense of moral victory even if they lost. Also, Swarmy plus his Tyrant Guard are a deathstar, but a pretty mild one that players don't feel is insurmountable.

A typical list for swarmlord looks like this:
Spoiler:
Swarmlord + 3 Tyrant Guard (Crushing Claws for 1 of them)

3 Hive Guard <- Or another Dakkafex, Or 3 Zoeys
Venomthrope
Zoenthrope <- Or a 2nd Venom

19 Hormagants
20 Termagants (10 Devourers, 10 Spinefists)
20 Termagants (10 Devourers, 10 Fleshborers) <- Mainly to keep the squads separate
3 Warriors (BS)

20 Gargoyles

2 Carnifexes (2 TL-Devouers) <- Or 2 Crones, Or Trygon Prime
Mawloc <- comes in on a 2+
Mawloc

Remember the idea of these sorts of lists is fluffy opponents, so no Malanthropes or Dakka flyrants.
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Grand Rapids Metro

Swarmy is the only time I take Hive Guard as well...and naked hormagaunts.

Come play games in West Michigan at https://www.facebook.com/tcpgrwarroom 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





TN/AL/MS state line.

Aren't Hive Guard comparable to devilfexes?
3 Hive Guard- T6, 6W, 4+ save, 6 Shots, Str 8, Ap4, 24", Ignore cover, no LOS required, 165pts
Versus
1 Devilfex- T6, 4W, 3+ save, 6 shots, Str 6, AP-, 18", Twinlinked, 150pts

Black Bases and Grey Plastic Forever:My quaint little hobby blog.

40k- The Kumunga Swarm (more)
Count Mortimer’s Private Security Force/Excavation Team (building)
Kabal of the Grieving Widow (less)

Plus other games- miniature and cardboard both. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Cheyenne WY

 Iechine wrote:
Alright fellow bugs, Im about to head out to PA for the Mechanicon. I'll do my best to represent. 8)


Good luck! And good hunting!

The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wichita, KS

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Aren't Hive Guard comparable to devilfexes?
3 Hive Guard- T6, 6W, 4+ save, 6 Shots, Str 8, Ap4, 24", Ignore cover, no LOS required, 165pts
Versus
1 Devilfex- T6, 4W, 3+ save, 6 shots, Str 6, AP-, 18", Twinlinked, 150pts
Here you go.

Calculating the numbers of Hive Guard vs Dakkafexes
Shooting at infantry / MC


Assault infantry / MC


Shooting at vehicles


Shooting at Jinking vehicles


Assaulting vehicles


In summary. Dakkafexes are significantly better than Hive Guard. The only case where hive guard outperform dakkafexes is shooting at Jinking vehicles, and even then the advantage is mitigated by the Dakkafexes's superior assault.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/10/24 22:14:48


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





TN/AL/MS state line.

Don't why why I thought Devilfexes only had 6 shots. Brains lip there. More of a corner case, but fexes can't deal with armor over 12 outside of assault. Would the longer range, ignore cover, no need for line of sight, and AP pick up any of the slack?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also your shooting at vehicles lists the fexes hitting armor 13+, which should be impossible...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And sorry, what about something like a Wraithknight(T8)?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/24 20:33:09


Black Bases and Grey Plastic Forever:My quaint little hobby blog.

40k- The Kumunga Swarm (more)
Count Mortimer’s Private Security Force/Excavation Team (building)
Kabal of the Grieving Widow (less)

Plus other games- miniature and cardboard both. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Can someone tell me the correct method for using Rippers.

They seem like they would be good objective campers with Deep Strike. But wouldn't instinctive behavior screw them over?

Are Spinefists worth it?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wichita, KS

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Don't why why I thought Devilfexes only had 6 shots. Brains lip there. More of a corner case, but fexes can't deal with armor over 12 outside of assault. Would the longer range, ignore cover, no need for line of sight, and AP pick up any of the slack?
You probably were arming them with Deathspitters instead of Devourers. Each Devourer gets 6 shots, and they take 2 of them.

The longer range and ignore cover are meaningful. However my numbers represent the average case. The Dakkafex with its high volume of fire will usually end up pretty close to average. Hive Guard on the other hand have a very, very high distribution of likely results. This is why they are so polarizing. You will find optimistic people who remember that one time that it shot at a wave serpent and killed it in one round of shooting, and for that they will always love hive guard more than the numbers represent. On the other hand you will find pessimists like me who remember the one time that Hive Guard shot at a Wave Serpent for 5 turns, and only did 1 hull point, and that hull point came when, in exasperation, they assaulted a serpent, and Hive Guard will always be worse than the numbers.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Also your shooting at vehicles lists the fexes hitting armor 13+, which should be impossible...

I had them doing "-" wounds to AV 13 and 14. "-" is code for "not possible".

 Sinful Hero wrote:
And sorry, what about something like a Wraithknight(T8)?

Wraithknight added. In shooting they both do 0.5 Wounds. In assault the Dakkafex fairs considerably better.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/24 22:14:36


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





TN/AL/MS state line.

 dan2026 wrote:
Can someone tell me the correct method for using Rippers.

They seem like they would be good objective campers with Deep Strike. But wouldn't instinctive behavior screw them over?

Are Spinefists worth it?

They're Fearless so they ignore the Fall Back part. Deep Strike-run into cover is the gist of it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tag8833 wrote:
 Sinful Hero wrote:
Don't why why I thought Devilfexes only had 6 shots. Brains lip there. More of a corner case, but fexes can't deal with armor over 12 outside of assault. Would the longer range, ignore cover, no need for line of sight, and AP pick up any of the slack?
You probably were arming them with Deathspitters instead of Devourers. Each Devourer gets 6 shots, and they take 2 of them.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Also your shooting at vehicles lists the fexes hitting armor 13+, which should be impossible...

I had them doing "-" wounds to AV 13 and 14. "-" is code for "not possible".

 Sinful Hero wrote:
And sorry, what about something like a Wraithknight(T8)?

Wraithknight added. In shooting they both do 0.5 Wounds. In assault the Dakkafex fairs considerably better.

That's all fairly disappointing. Considering you also used 2+ and 3+ save models for your calculations ignores cover doesn't help much. So the Hive Guards niche is shooting AV13+ and jinking vehicles.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/24 22:10:55


Black Bases and Grey Plastic Forever:My quaint little hobby blog.

40k- The Kumunga Swarm (more)
Count Mortimer’s Private Security Force/Excavation Team (building)
Kabal of the Grieving Widow (less)

Plus other games- miniature and cardboard both. 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: