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2014/11/19 19:04:59
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Honestly, how often does ObSec make a difference in your games?
ObSec isn't as big a deal anymore for bugs. That is because their competitive builds do not rely on ObSec units taking objectives, but rather, on overloading the opponent with more threats than they can handle. Our lists work much better with the emphasis on units that contribute to the Tyranid offensive machine than to units just holding objectives. That is why fundamentally, we are going down and down with our troop count.
It used to be tervigon + 30 termagants. It then became units of 10 horm/termagants, which then changed to 3 rippers. The newest evolution of our troops - the mucolids - can't even score at all!
I'm in complete agreement with you on this one Jy, Tyranids win games, despite their troops.
Honestly, how often does ObSec make a difference in your games?
ObSec isn't as big a deal anymore for bugs. That is because their competitive builds do not rely on ObSec units taking objectives, but rather, on overloading the opponent with more threats than they can handle. Our lists work much better with the emphasis on units that contribute to the Tyranid offensive machine than to units just holding objectives. That is why fundamentally, we are going down and down with our troop count.
It used to be tervigon + 30 termagants. It then became units of 10 horm/termagants, which then changed to 3 rippers. The newest evolution of our troops - the mucolids - can't even score at all!
This is a sad excuse for game design and it's effects on the way the game has evolved too.....Troops are the backbone of every army, as they should be. When your troops suck, the army is generally terrible. Tyranids are proof of this. OTOH, if our troops were costed in line with other armies we'd be talking.
Termagants are priced appropriately, but not worth taking anymore
Hormagaunts need to drop 2 points OR get the old scything talon rule back
Genestealers need to cost 10-11 points to be worthwhile
Rippers are costed appropriately, but wouldn't ever be taken without the deep strike option
Warriors are ridiculously over costed....either the stock warrior should cost 20 points, or they need to gain T5 at their current cost....
I'm not saying we have the WORST end of the troop stick, but the game would be much better off if troops had a higher importance in the game...
(EDIT). I'm also not saying that Tyranids are terribad....mainly their troops choices. Because Tyranids (partly) don't play the actual game (Kind of like Flying Circus deamons), the troops are less important.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/19 19:22:10
2014/11/19 19:24:52
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
The Tyranid Warrior is the heart of the swarm and is used in many of the formations.
1. Super versatility allows it to take on a wide variety of jobs with little problem.
2. Has access to assault grenades
3. Psychic support for the army.
The Tyranid Warrior has lived a long and checkered past, having often been switched to worthwhile to worthless as meta constantly shifts around it. The Tyranid Warrior acts in much the same way as a cheaper, more easily disposable terminator. The crux of the problem comes from the toughness value of the warrior. At T4, a warrior is the equal of most marines, but costs just under 3 times the cost. Against S8 and greater, a warrior has very little in the way of defense. However, by keeping to small units it is much easier to mitigate losses to large strength weapons while also maximizing firepower. The standard option clocks in at 90 points and serves little purpose just moving up, unless working within other formations which allow Tyranid Warriors to augment and boost those around them. The recommended option is a small group of 3 with a bio cannon at 100 points. Depending on your strategy, a group of 3 entrenched in cover with a barbed strangler will have good chances of survival and can keep enemy flamers and heavy weapons pinned down as the rest of the swarm rapidly moves into their respective gun ranges. The other option that works well for hunting vehicles or multi-wound xenos or human characters is the Venom cannon. It is fully capable of working on AV12, though anything stronger will give you problems.
Mobilty can be a bit of a problem for warriors, though there are ways to get around that. Each squad can have quite the presence on the board which is reinforced by their large size. Always make sure to keep them in cover or melee to avoid casualties. The maximum size is 9, but rarely should a person field more than 4-5 in a single squad, in order to ensure that the footprint remains small and they do not attract too much attention, as anyone who stares at them too long is going to start feeling itchy with their big guns. Once you get in close, you want to avoid standing around for multiple turns in the open shooting. Use your devourers and jump right into the mix, and even stock Tyranid Warriors should be able to hold their own for several turns. If you are going after a more melee concentrated brood, then consider keeping them rather small, and in transport. The only real transport options for the Tyranid Warrior are Trygon tunnels or a pod. Taking the pod will be your best bet in almost every circumstance. Give one warrior a LW/BS combination and consider him a sergeant. From there, you can go in several directions. You can give the remaining 2-5 rending claws and go full melee, or keep devourers on them to allow them to soften up before the assault, which in most circumstances will be your best bet. You do not need to give every warrior in a CC oriented brood every shiny option when it comes down to it. If you have the points for a Prime, see if you can't keep them all together.
In a pod, you can keep 5 warriors and a Prime. That is a bit point heavy however, so try and shave it where you can elsewhere. Your Prime should be doing most of the work, but take advantage of stat line boosts where applicable. Upgrade 2 more with rending claws and scything talons and keep the rest stock, and you have a much more durable attack platform. Use some wound shenanigans to keep them all rotating out to take damage, and you can also use the Tyranid Prime to tank S8-9 shots. Ideally, you want the brunt of all your melee damage to be taken on your stock warriors to free up the rending claw warriors to survive longer to roll those 6s.
Grades: B (Gunboat Warriors), B (Pod Warriors), D (CC Walk Warriors), D (Vanilla)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/19 19:27:47
"There is a cancer eating at the Imperium. With each decade it advances deeper, leaving drained, dead worlds in its wake. This horror, this abomination, has thought and purpose that functions on an unimaginable, galactic scale and all we can do is try to stop the swarms of bioengineered monsters it unleashes upon us by instinct. We have given the horror a name to salve our fears; we call it the Tyranid race, but if is aware of us at all it must know us only as Prey."
Hive Fleet Grootslang 15000+
Servants of the Void 2000+
2014/11/19 19:26:32
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
Hormagaunts are usually seen as an alternative to the deep striking rippers as mandatory troops. Depending on your list composition of heavy hitters you may want those guys in. Alternatively you can go out all out on Hgaunts and TGants and play an horde style list. Following here is a list of things you want to consider when talking about Hgaunts:
1. Hormagaunts may look like a cheap troop, but they actually are not. Remember that nids have Tgants, rippers and Mucolids for a cheaper troop choice. Take these guys only if you have a real reason, if not then there are better mandatory troops.
2. Hormagaunts are fast. Not as fast as beasts or jump infantry, but for their cost they are indeed fast between fleet and leap. They will get into assault range by turn 2 many times.
3. Do not expect vanilla hormagaunts to provide damage, that is not their role. They will make a mess out of certain units, but that will not happen commonly.
With that said why would you take Hgaunts, what is their intended role? Well at this point it is necessary to distinguish between vanilla hormagaunts and upgraded hormagaunts.
Vanillla hormagaunts are the most commonly used and are great for screening, tarpitting, objective grabbing and assault linking.
1) Screening: Since the rule clarification that you don't need to be 25% covered by a model to get the cover save but a toe in a ripper will suffice, these guys became an interesting alternative to the more commonly used screeners. While they cost 25% more than Tgants, they will never risk to slow down your dakkafex/exocrine/whatever. At the same time they cost 16% less than gargoyles (and are obj sec). Remember to bring a shroud source with you when doing this, or the hormagaunts will be an even better target than a dakkafex for the bolters on a point per average wound basis. 2) Tarpitting: When tarpitting with nids it is either gargoiles or hormagaunts. Luckily both of them are really good at this. Gargoiles are better due to the jump infantry type and the blinding venom even if they cost more. If you want pure tarpitting go for them. Take hormagaunts if you also need them for their other roles. 3) Objective grabbing: Here the best are the deepstriking rippers. Cheaper, easier to hide and deepstriking. Hormagaunts are close second though, with the highest speed between our obj sec troops and an high model count for conga lining. 4) Assault linking: This is where Hgaunts are the best. Assault a model with a slaughter unit (Dimacherion, Carnifex, Toxicrene etc..) and at the same time multi assault that model and another unit with a unit of hormagaunts. You will get 2 benefits: first your hormagaunts will eat up the overwatch and secondly when that inital assaulted model gets slaughtered you force an harsh leadership check on the second unit while in meele with an high initiative unit. Remember that glancing and penetrating hits count for resolution and tanks are indeed the best initial targets for this maneuver. Hgaunts have fleet and high initiative for a low cost, which makes them better at this than Tgants and Gargoiles.
As you see they are not the best at anything but they are a good second choice for all of those roles, with the point 4 being an exception but it is an uncommon occurance (but can win games, keep an eye out for it). So if you need just mandatory troops or strongly need one role in particular skip Hgaunts. If you need an all round troop choice than can be spent in any of those roles then consider Hgaunts.
Upgraded Hormagaunts are almost never seen and there is a reson. They cost! For a 1W T3 6+ model they can get to ridiculous costs. That said: a) If you need anti rear AV 10 and can't honestly get anything better then AG Hgaunts can be an option. They are fairly good at it, but will bleed points like mad when targeted. b) If you expect to face high T targets like WKnights or Nurgle babies then consider Venom Hgaunts. If you can get them on their favorite target then they can get to tear jerking efficiency, if not they will again be point bleeders at the smallest sign of enemy fire. c) Do not consider AG + Venom Gaunts. Never.
Grades: C (Vanilla Hormagaunts), D (Single upgrade Hgaunts) E (Double Upgrade Hormagaunts)
I think you are wrong in several important ways, but instead of arguing, let me offer an alternative take.
A View from the Maelstrom of war: Hormagaunt: Tyranid's lack quality troops available to other armies. However, one often overlooked gem is the min squad of vanilla hormagants also known as a Maelstrom Winner.
1) The best scorers in the codex. Their mobility enhancements allows them to move 13.5" on average. They can get to an objective anywhere on the board in 2 turns and do so reliably, and score it when they get there thanks to Objective secured. They aren't Eldar Jetbike good, but they are close.
2) Board Control. This may mean congalining across multiple objectives to contest them, or getting in the way of an imperial knight, or other deathstar. They are a unit that can move past midfield on turn one, and push the opponent to the outside and edges of the board.
3) Objective Denial. Even a min squad can stretch across multiple objectives to deny them.
4) MC Protection. Hormagaunts are a good screening unit because they move faster than anything they can screen. They are also an assault denial unit. By placing themselves between an MC and a unit that would like to assault it they can prevent assaults and frustrate opponents allowing MC's to continue putting out damage.
5) The Anvil. While Hormagaunts are the best scorers available to Tyranids, they also have the ability to neutralize enemy shooting. Even a min squad can hold up most shooty units for a turn until something killy can get there to deal with it. Thanks to their smaller base and profile, hormagants are even better at this than gargoyles because they usually won't deny a charge to the heavies coming behind them. Against many things, a malanthrope can offer enough hammer to deal with the shooty unit.
6) Deployment Aid. Why do Tyranids fear drop pods? Because they don't have enough hormagants and gargoyles. By spacing them out around your MC's you can deny drop pods the position that they would like to alpha strike.
7) Cover Saves. When there is no terrain to hide in, Hormagants can become mobile terrain. Thanks to their low cost, and low threat profile, they aren't likely to take fire.
8) Assault linking. If you have a model capable of chalking up wounds, you can send that model into some kroot, and the hormagants can multi-assault a riptide and the kroot allowing you to quickly eliminate potential threats.
9) MSU. Unlike Termagants, Hormagants can quickly spread out across the board giving your opponents a rough time tracking them down.
10) Drawing Fire. In many situations Hormagants can be used to successfully draw fire away from MC's. If they contest an important objective, or just get in the way, suddenly shots must be wasted on them. With a Malanthrope sidekick, they are always more durable than expected, and thanks to the decent squad sizes they can congaline into terrain or out of Line of Sight.
Other ways to run hormagants. 1) Wraith Knight's nightmare: 20 hormagants with Toxin sacs strike fear into the hearts of many MC's and elite infantry. 2) Transport Killer: 15 hormagaunts with Adrenal Glands can deal with most transports in the game, and also are better equipped to kill MEQ than Poison gants. On average it will take 9 AG Gants to kill a 3 hullpoint vehicle with back armor 10. 3) The Tarpit: 20+ Hormagants with no upgrades can tarpit walkers easily. A good Solution to kill Elite infantry. 4) Tyranid Prime's Bodyguard. 17 hormagants w/ a Tyranid prime in a Tyrannocyte. They can give the prime fleet, ablative wounds, and extra attacks to deal with 2+ armor.
Grades: A (Maelstrom Winner). B (Wraith Knight's Nightmare). B- (Transport Killer). B (The Tarpit), C (Tyranid Prime's Bodyguard)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/19 19:32:15
2014/11/19 19:49:30
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
Hormagaunts are usually seen as an alternative to the deep striking rippers as mandatory troops. Depending on your list composition of heavy hitters you may want those guys in.
Alternatively you can go out all out on Hgaunts and TGants and play an horde style list.
Following here is a list of things you want to consider when talking about Hgaunts:
1. Hormagaunts may look like a cheap troop, but they actually are not. Remember that nids have Tgants, rippers and Mucolids for a cheaper troop choice. Take these guys only if you have a real reason, if not then there are better mandatory troops.
2. Hormagaunts are fast. Not as fast as beasts or jump infantry, but for their cost they are indeed fast between fleet and leap. They will get into assault range by turn 2 many times.
3. Do not expect vanilla hormagaunts to provide damage, that is not their role. They will make a mess out of certain units, but that will not happen commonly.
With that said why would you take Hgaunts, what is their intended role? Well at this point it is necessary to distinguish between vanilla hormagaunts and upgraded hormagaunts.
Vanillla hormagaunts are the most commonly used and are great for screening, tarpitting, objective grabbing and assault linking.
1) Screening: Since the rule clarification that you don't need to be 25% covered by a model to get the cover save but a toe in a ripper will suffice, these guys became an interesting alternative to the more commonly used screeners. While they cost 25% more than Tgants, they will never risk to slow down your dakkafex/exocrine/whatever. At the same time they cost 16% less than gargoyles (and are obj sec). Remember to bring a shroud source with you when doing this, or the hormagaunts will be an even better target than a dakkafex for the bolters on a point per average wound basis.
2) Tarpitting: When tarpitting with nids it is either gargoiles or hormagaunts. Luckily both of them are really good at this. Gargoiles are better due to the jump infantry type and the blinding venom even if they cost more. If you want pure tarpitting go for them. Take hormagaunts if you also need them for their other roles.
3) Objective grabbing: Here the best are the deepstriking rippers. Cheaper, easier to hide and deepstriking. Hormagaunts are close second though, with the highest speed between our obj sec troops and an high model count for conga lining.
4) Assault linking: This is where Hgaunts are the best. Assault a model with a slaughter unit (Dimacherion, Carnifex, Toxicrene etc..) and at the same time multi assault that model and another unit with a unit of hormagaunts. You will get 2 benefits: first your hormagaunts will eat up the overwatch and secondly when that inital assaulted model gets slaughtered you force an harsh leadership check on the second unit while in meele with an high initiative unit. Remember that glancing and penetrating hits count for resolution and tanks are indeed the best initial targets for this maneuver. Hgaunts have fleet and high initiative for a low cost, which makes them better at this than Tgants and Gargoiles.
As you see they are not the best at anything but they are a good second choice for all of those roles, with the point 4 being an exception but it is an uncommon occurance (but can win games, keep an eye out for it). So if you need just mandatory troops or strongly need one role in particular skip Hgaunts. If you need an all round troop choice than can be spent in any of those roles then consider Hgaunts.
Upgraded Hormagaunts are almost never seen and there is a reson. They cost! For a 1W T3 6+ model they can get to ridiculous costs. That said:
a) If you need anti rear AV 10 and can't honestly get anything better then AG Hgaunts can be an option. They are fairly good at it, but will bleed points like mad when targeted.
b) If you expect to face high T targets like WKnights or Nurgle babies then consider Venom Hgaunts. If you can get them on their favorite target then they can get to tear jerking efficiency, if not they will again be point bleeders at the smallest sign of enemy fire.
c) Do not consider AG + Venom Gaunts. Never.
Grades: C (Vanilla Hormagaunts), D (Single upgrade Hgaunts) E (Double Upgrade Hormagaunts)
I think you are wrong in several important ways, but instead of arguing, let me offer an alternative take.
A View from the Maelstrom of war: Hormagaunt: Tyranid's lack quality troops available to other armies. However, one often overlooked gem is the min squad of vanilla hormagants also known as a Maelstrom Winner.
Spoiler:
1) The best scorers in the codex. Their mobility enhancements allows them to move 13.5" on average. They can get to an objective anywhere on the board in 2 turns and do so reliably, and score it when they get there thanks to Objective secured. They aren't Eldar Jetbike good, but they are close.
2) Board Control. This may mean congalining across multiple objectives to contest them, or getting in the way of an imperial knight, or other deathstar. They are a unit that can move past midfield on turn one, and push the opponent to the outside and edges of the board.
3) Objective Denial. Even a min squad can stretch across multiple objectives to deny them.
4) MC Protection. Hormagaunts are a good screening unit because they move faster than anything they can screen. They are also an assault denial unit. By placing themselves between an MC and a unit that would like to assault it they can prevent assaults and frustrate opponents allowing MC's to continue putting out damage.
5) The Anvil. While Hormagaunts are the best scorers available to Tyranids, they also have the ability to neutralize enemy shooting. Even a min squad can hold up most shooty units for a turn until something killy can get there to deal with it. Thanks to their smaller base and profile, hormagants are even better at this than gargoyles because they usually won't deny a charge to the heavies coming behind them. Against many things, a malanthrope can offer enough hammer to deal with the shooty unit.
6) Deployment Aid. Why do Tyranids fear drop pods? Because they don't have enough hormagants and gargoyles. By spacing them out around your MC's you can deny drop pods the position that they would like to alpha strike.
7) Cover Saves. When there is no terrain to hide in, Hormagants can become mobile terrain. Thanks to their low cost, and low threat profile, they aren't likely to take fire.
8) Assault linking. If you have a model capable of chalking up wounds, you can send that model into some kroot, and the hormagants can multi-assault a riptide and the kroot allowing you to quickly eliminate potential threats.
9) MSU. Unlike Termagants, Hormagants can quickly spread out across the board giving your opponents a rough time tracking them down.
10) Drawing Fire. In many situations Hormagants can be used to successfully draw fire away from MC's. If they contest an important objective, or just get in the way, suddenly shots must be wasted on them. With a Malanthrope sidekick, they are always more durable than expected, and thanks to the decent squad sizes they can congaline into terrain or out of Line of Sight.
Other ways to run hormagants.
1) Wraith Knight's nightmare: 20 hormagants with Toxin sacs strike fear into the hearts of many MC's and elite infantry.
2) Transport Killer: 15 hormagaunts with Adrenal Glands can deal with most transports in the game, and also are better equipped to kill MEQ than Poison gants. On average it will take 9 AG Gants to kill a 3 hullpoint vehicle with back armor 10.
3) The Tarpit: 20+ Hormagants with no upgrades can tarpit walkers easily. A good Solution to kill Elite infantry.
4) Tyranid Prime's Bodyguard. 17 hormagants w/ a Tyranid prime in a Tyrannocyte. They can give the prime fleet, ablative wounds, and extra attacks to deal with 2+ armor.
Grades: A (Maelstrom Winner). B (Wraith Knight's Nightmare). B- (Transport Killer). B (The Tarpit), C (Tyranid Prime's Bodyguard)
Amen. Now I am agree with this.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/19 19:53:06
2014/11/19 20:14:33
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
zerosignal wrote: Tyranid detachment looks interesting. Note you lose obsec though. IB re-rolls means you now have a 1:3 chance of getting the 'good' result... \o/
Where does it say you loose Objec Secured?
I'm a big fan of the Hypertoxic Node. Not exactly sure what's not to like there Tag!
The Hive Fleet detachment does not have Objective Secured as one of its Command Benefits. Instead, it has Adaptive Instincts, where you can re-roll your Instinctive Behavior tests.
Honestly, how often does ObSec make a difference in your games?
Almost every game. Local FLGS is all straight Maelstrom.
2014/11/19 20:17:37
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
zerosignal wrote: Tyranid detachment looks interesting. Note you lose obsec though. IB re-rolls means you now have a 1:3 chance of getting the 'good' result... \o/
Where does it say you loose Objec Secured?
I'm a big fan of the Hypertoxic Node. Not exactly sure what's not to like there Tag!
The Hive Fleet detachment does not have Objective Secured as one of its Command Benefits. Instead, it has Adaptive Instincts, where you can re-roll your Instinctive Behavior tests.
Honestly, how often does ObSec make a difference in your games?
Almost every game. Local FLGS is all straight Maelstrom.
One of my clubs uses straight Maelstrom, and I've never had it come up.
Tyran wrote: How much does the Skytide cost? has anyone has made the math?
It's a Tyrant plus 20-60 Gargoyles. So a standard Tyrant and minimal Gargoyles is 360.
I would be tempted to change the standard loadout for a melee version though so you can Jink tank (and the Skytyrant cannot Swoop while with Gargoyles). For added fun, throw in Toxic Miasma, which works off of the unit, not the model...
This gives your unit a huge footprint, is something unusual (always a good way to throw someone off balance) and spreads out your opponent's target priority. A Skytyrant is hard to kill, and is the source of your reliably returning broods of Gargoyles and Spore Mines. On the other hand, your Warlord is Swooping around being threatening with quad-Devourers (and so are his friends).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/19 20:51:27
2014/11/19 20:55:37
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
So I don't quite know how Death from the Skies is going to work, but we get our own table. Note that other factions, such as Orks, Tau, Necrons, SM etc, have their own tables, they are spread out over several pages in the book.
What's better than a Flyrant with four wounds? A Flyrant with five wounds.
YMDC = nightmare
2014/11/19 21:04:13
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Frozocrone wrote: So I don't quite know how Death from the Skies is going to work, but we get our own table. Note that other factions, such as Orks, Tau, Necrons, SM etc, have their own tables, they are spread out over several pages in the book.
What's better than a Flyrant with four wounds? A Flyrant with five wounds.
how many points is that??
edit: I mean, how many melta guns does it equal?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/19 21:07:10
2014/11/19 21:09:58
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Frozocrone wrote: So I don't quite know how Death from the Skies is going to work, but we get our own table. Note that other factions, such as Orks, Tau, Necrons, SM etc, have their own tables, they are spread out over several pages in the book.
What's better than a Flyrant with four wounds? A Flyrant with five wounds.
how many points is that??
edit: I mean, how many melta guns does it equal?
Haha I wish I knew. Unfortunately I have limited access to the book (get my physical copy hopefully Saturday if I can wake up quick enough )
Tyranids are changing so much...which is awesome.
YMDC = nightmare
2014/11/19 21:13:10
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Frozocrone wrote: So I don't quite know how Death from the Skies is going to work, but we get our own table. Note that other factions, such as Orks, Tau, Necrons, SM etc, have their own tables, they are spread out over several pages in the book.
What's better than a Flyrant with four wounds? A Flyrant with five wounds.
how many points is that??
edit: I mean, how many melta guns does it equal?
Haha I wish I knew. Unfortunately I have limited access to the book (get my physical copy hopefully Saturday if I can wake up quick enough )
Tyranids are changing so much...which is awesome.
Point at the human showing you these pages.
2014/11/19 21:18:46
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Hormagaunts are usually seen as an alternative to the deep striking rippers as mandatory troops. Depending on your list composition of heavy hitters you may want those guys in.
Alternatively you can go out all out on Hgaunts and TGants and play an horde style list.
Following here is a list of things you want to consider when talking about Hgaunts:
1. Hormagaunts may look like a cheap troop, but they actually are not. Remember that nids have Tgants, rippers and Mucolids for a cheaper troop choice. Take these guys only if you have a real reason, if not then there are better mandatory troops.
2. Hormagaunts are fast. Not as fast as beasts or jump infantry, but for their cost they are indeed fast between fleet and leap. They will get into assault range by turn 2 many times.
3. Do not expect vanilla hormagaunts to provide damage, that is not their role. They will make a mess out of certain units, but that will not happen commonly.
With that said why would you take Hgaunts, what is their intended role? Well at this point it is necessary to distinguish between vanilla hormagaunts and upgraded hormagaunts.
Vanillla hormagaunts are the most commonly used and are great for screening, tarpitting, objective grabbing and assault linking.
1) Screening: Since the rule clarification that you don't need to be 25% covered by a model to get the cover save but a toe in a ripper will suffice, these guys became an interesting alternative to the more commonly used screeners. While they cost 25% more than Tgants, they will never risk to slow down your dakkafex/exocrine/whatever. At the same time they cost 16% less than gargoyles (and are obj sec). Remember to bring a shroud source with you when doing this, or the hormagaunts will be an even better target than a dakkafex for the bolters on a point per average wound basis.
2) Tarpitting: When tarpitting with nids it is either gargoiles or hormagaunts. Luckily both of them are really good at this. Gargoiles are better due to the jump infantry type and the blinding venom even if they cost more. If you want pure tarpitting go for them. Take hormagaunts if you also need them for their other roles.
3) Objective grabbing: Here the best are the deepstriking rippers. Cheaper, easier to hide and deepstriking. Hormagaunts are close second though, with the highest speed between our obj sec troops and an high model count for conga lining.
4) Assault linking: This is where Hgaunts are the best. Assault a model with a slaughter unit (Dimacherion, Carnifex, Toxicrene etc..) and at the same time multi assault that model and another unit with a unit of hormagaunts. You will get 2 benefits: first your hormagaunts will eat up the overwatch and secondly when that inital assaulted model gets slaughtered you force an harsh leadership check on the second unit while in meele with an high initiative unit. Remember that glancing and penetrating hits count for resolution and tanks are indeed the best initial targets for this maneuver. Hgaunts have fleet and high initiative for a low cost, which makes them better at this than Tgants and Gargoiles.
As you see they are not the best at anything but they are a good second choice for all of those roles, with the point 4 being an exception but it is an uncommon occurance (but can win games, keep an eye out for it). So if you need just mandatory troops or strongly need one role in particular skip Hgaunts. If you need an all round troop choice than can be spent in any of those roles then consider Hgaunts.
Upgraded Hormagaunts are almost never seen and there is a reson. They cost! For a 1W T3 6+ model they can get to ridiculous costs. That said:
a) If you need anti rear AV 10 and can't honestly get anything better then AG Hgaunts can be an option. They are fairly good at it, but will bleed points like mad when targeted.
b) If you expect to face high T targets like WKnights or Nurgle babies then consider Venom Hgaunts. If you can get them on their favorite target then they can get to tear jerking efficiency, if not they will again be point bleeders at the smallest sign of enemy fire.
c) Do not consider AG + Venom Gaunts. Never.
Grades: C (Vanilla Hormagaunts), D (Single upgrade Hgaunts) E (Double Upgrade Hormagaunts)
I think you are wrong in several important ways, but instead of arguing, let me offer an alternative take.
A View from the Maelstrom of war: Hormagaunt: Tyranid's lack quality troops available to other armies. However, one often overlooked gem is the min squad of vanilla hormagants also known as a Maelstrom Winner.
Spoiler:
1) The best scorers in the codex. Their mobility enhancements allows them to move 13.5" on average. They can get to an objective anywhere on the board in 2 turns and do so reliably, and score it when they get there thanks to Objective secured. They aren't Eldar Jetbike good, but they are close.
2) Board Control. This may mean congalining across multiple objectives to contest them, or getting in the way of an imperial knight, or other deathstar. They are a unit that can move past midfield on turn one, and push the opponent to the outside and edges of the board.
3) Objective Denial. Even a min squad can stretch across multiple objectives to deny them.
4) MC Protection. Hormagaunts are a good screening unit because they move faster than anything they can screen. They are also an assault denial unit. By placing themselves between an MC and a unit that would like to assault it they can prevent assaults and frustrate opponents allowing MC's to continue putting out damage.
5) The Anvil. While Hormagaunts are the best scorers available to Tyranids, they also have the ability to neutralize enemy shooting. Even a min squad can hold up most shooty units for a turn until something killy can get there to deal with it. Thanks to their smaller base and profile, hormagants are even better at this than gargoyles because they usually won't deny a charge to the heavies coming behind them. Against many things, a malanthrope can offer enough hammer to deal with the shooty unit.
6) Deployment Aid. Why do Tyranids fear drop pods? Because they don't have enough hormagants and gargoyles. By spacing them out around your MC's you can deny drop pods the position that they would like to alpha strike.
7) Cover Saves. When there is no terrain to hide in, Hormagants can become mobile terrain. Thanks to their low cost, and low threat profile, they aren't likely to take fire.
8) Assault linking. If you have a model capable of chalking up wounds, you can send that model into some kroot, and the hormagants can multi-assault a riptide and the kroot allowing you to quickly eliminate potential threats.
9) MSU. Unlike Termagants, Hormagants can quickly spread out across the board giving your opponents a rough time tracking them down.
10) Drawing Fire. In many situations Hormagants can be used to successfully draw fire away from MC's. If they contest an important objective, or just get in the way, suddenly shots must be wasted on them. With a Malanthrope sidekick, they are always more durable than expected, and thanks to the decent squad sizes they can congaline into terrain or out of Line of Sight.
Other ways to run hormagants.
1) Wraith Knight's nightmare: 20 hormagants with Toxin sacs strike fear into the hearts of many MC's and elite infantry.
2) Transport Killer: 15 hormagaunts with Adrenal Glands can deal with most transports in the game, and also are better equipped to kill MEQ than Poison gants. On average it will take 9 AG Gants to kill a 3 hullpoint vehicle with back armor 10.
3) The Tarpit: 20+ Hormagants with no upgrades can tarpit walkers easily. A good Solution to kill Elite infantry.
4) Tyranid Prime's Bodyguard. 17 hormagants w/ a Tyranid prime in a Tyrannocyte. They can give the prime fleet, ablative wounds, and extra attacks to deal with 2+ armor.
Grades: A (Maelstrom Winner). B (Wraith Knight's Nightmare). B- (Transport Killer). B (The Tarpit), C (Tyranid Prime's Bodyguard)
As i said, i'm full of hormagaunt love, but these guides are for everyone, we must write down what is commonly accepted.
And come on if Dakka Flyrants are B how can you rate Hgaunts A.
C is a good rate i think. Useful in their right contest but not seen in many lists i.e. a well designed model.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/19 21:21:10
2014/11/19 21:31:46
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
I'm getting these off a Tyranid facebook group, someone got it early and was kind enough to post pictures for us all to see
I guess I could do a full 360 degree rotation, I'd be bound to point at them at some point
Annnnd stop.
No not me!!
Haha, anyhow Thanks for shareing man! It's appreciated!
In regards to the 3 HQ's- I think I might be more excited of the prospect of running deathleaper as my warlord to keep him alive than I am a third Flyrant.
I mean, is a third Flyrant nessesary if you are running 2 already?
2014/11/19 21:36:08
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
I'm getting these off a Tyranid facebook group, someone got it early and was kind enough to post pictures for us all to see
I guess I could do a full 360 degree rotation, I'd be bound to point at them at some point
Annnnd stop.
No not me!!
Haha, anyhow Thanks for shareing man! It's appreciated!
In regards to the 3 HQ's- I think I might be more excited of the prospect of running deathleaper as my warlord to keep him alive than I am a third Flyrant.
I mean, is a third Flyrant nessesary if you are running 2 already?
I dunno, 3 Flyrants is still pretty gnarly. Still, it opens up additional HQ options without having to buy the fourth Troop choice
YMDC = nightmare
2014/11/19 21:41:43
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
I'm getting these off a Tyranid facebook group, someone got it early and was kind enough to post pictures for us all to see
I guess I could do a full 360 degree rotation, I'd be bound to point at them at some point
Annnnd stop.
No not me!!
Haha, anyhow Thanks for shareing man! It's appreciated!
In regards to the 3 HQ's- I think I might be more excited of the prospect of running deathleaper as my warlord to keep him alive than I am a third Flyrant.
I mean, is a third Flyrant nessesary if you are running 2 already?
I agree. I see this as more of us gaining "permission" to use some of the other HQs in the book, now that we can have our 2 flyrants (cake?) and another HQ too.
2014/11/19 21:47:51
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Are fighter Aces not usually allowed in game? Most of these upgrades seem to be well worth the points cost for a roll. I would gladly pay 35 for my Warlord to roll on that table!
2014/11/19 22:37:43
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
I actually can't believe that no one has said this yet - guys, in a standard BAO/2 source tournament (which most majors are) we could take FIVE FLYRANTS. FIVE. Is that the most balanced build? Probably not, and having a presence on the ground through Skyblight with "only" four Flyrants is probably better. But FIVE. Wave serpents, watch out. We can apparently spam now too
I'll definitely jump on some of those unit analyses, but I'm on my phone right now. Just had to say that haha
Hive Fleet Grootslang 
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