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While most of the unit write ups seem solid, I am very confused by the grades.

For example, in no world should the tyranid prime be considered an A because it's cheap. It's not cheap.

The grades should be simplified. Adding in +/- make too many categories.

I'd also strongly recommend defining exactly what the grades mean:

A - At least one should be in every list (i.e. Tyrant, Malanthrope/Venomthrope)
B - A good, competitive unit that can easily fit into any competitive list (i.e. Carnifex, LAN biovores)
C - An average unit with some good but some drawbacks (i.e. Tyrannofex, non-LAN Biovores)
D - An okay unit with some serious drawbacks (i.e. Zoanthropes, Hive Guard)
F - No good will come from this unit (i.e. Maleceptor)

Timeshadow wrote:
Long time lurker here on dakka (Thats what bugs do isn't it)
Just had to post this just so everyone can see the horror of the new rules

Primary Detachment Tyranids(reg Battleforged CAD)

HQ
Flyrant Wings, 2x TL Dev, Electroshock, Fighter Ace
Flyrant as abv

Troop
Rippers (3) Deep Strike
Rippers (3) Deep Strike

Elites
Malanthrope(or 2 Venoms)
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope

Allie: Levaithan Detachment

Flyrant as abv
Flyrant as abv
Flyrant as abv

Troop
Mucilid
Mucilid
Mucilid

Elites
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope

Total 1845(1850 if 2 Venoms insted of Malanthrope)

Is this as sick as it seems to be lol.

Not really...I am trying to understand the widespread use of Zoanthropes. Unfortunetely, they are going to be rather slow and they seem to serve no rational purpose. You are bringing very little in the sense of board control, as the vast majority of your units are slow synaptic units that have to rely on a invul save to survive. Your relying on Flyrants to bring down all opposition, but as even Jim has said a time or two, by investing that many points into them, your actually leaving yourself very easy to counter by having an extreme lack of genuine board control. The reason Flyrants work well is that they are mobile and can support a push of lots of ground threats so that they can reach the front lines unharmed. By having virtually no threats on the ground. Your just making it easy for the opponent to just pick off all your MSUs for easy VPs and a win.

NamelessBard wrote:
While most of the unit write ups seem solid, I am very confused by the grades.
For example, in no world should the tyranid prime be considered an A because it's cheap. It's not cheap.

Cheap is subjective. I use it in the literal sense. You're bringing the bare minimum HQ unit, and I rather pointedly said that your not bringing it for extreme murdering. If your bringing something cheap, it's because your putting the other 80+s you would have fielded on an HQ elsewhere.

Timeshadow wrote:
Long time lurker here on dakka (Thats what bugs do isn't it)
Just had to post this just so everyone can see the horror of the new rules

Primary Detachment Tyranids(reg Battleforged CAD)

HQ
Flyrant Wings, 2x TL Dev, Electroshock, Fighter Ace
Flyrant as abv

Troop
Rippers (3) Deep Strike
Rippers (3) Deep Strike

Elites
Malanthrope(or 2 Venoms)
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope

Allie: Levaithan Detachment

Flyrant as abv
Flyrant as abv
Flyrant as abv

Troop
Mucilid
Mucilid
Mucilid

Elites
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope

Total 1845(1850 if 2 Venoms insted of Malanthrope)

Is this as sick as it seems to be lol.

Oops forgot to add: This is 5 Fighter Ace Flyrants, 20 Warp Charge and all cheeze...... wow! Just to note Id never feild this unless somone asked for it but just wow!!

Welcome to the Tyranid Tactica, Timeshadow. Always good to see new Tyranid players to this thread.

Yeah, it gets pretty sic with the new formation. 5 flyrants with Fighter Ace is going to be stupid good.

I feel that your army can be improved upon. To me, a psychic choir here is not necessary. You really don't need all those warp dice as the primary focus of your flyrants won't really be to cast powers. Moreover, all those zoans don't really add much to the mobility of your army. They will basically be stuck in their deployment zone.

Rather, consider swapping out some of those zoans (ok, most of them) for lictors. I feel that lictors fit better in your list. One of the weaknesses of the list is that most likely you won't land your flyrants in order to keep them alive. And zoans will be hard pressed to stray too far from their deployment zones. Thus, you will have a tough time getting to the far objectives. Enter the lictor. He is a good disruption unit that can reach the far objectives, help to control your opponent's movements and can be used to guide in deepstriking rippers and mucolids.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fragile wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

P. 19 & 21 of the BRB strongly implies that ruins have levels.

Sadly my version does not seem to have the same pages as yours. But, some quotes about levels and rules interactions would be nice. 6th edition had a great explanations about levels.

It has something to do with unit coherency being 6" vertically when on different levels of terrain or ruins. I'll find quotes later when I have the time.

Just put in my order for 2 Tyrannocytes! Only cost me £60, giftsforgeeks have an offer on using the voucher code EARLYBIRD, but today is the last day it is valid. Gives you an extra 5% off on top of their usual 20% discount!

To reply to you Unyealding and Jy2, I just like huge warp charge pools, and in a 1850 pts army its hard to get a big pool with a pure nid force without loosing somthing. I think the combined dakka and psychic presence of the Flyrant Ace's makes up for much of the loss of board control but I could easily drop 3 Zoes leaving 14 WC(still tons) and take 150 pts of gribbles say 2 more DSing Ripper swarms of 3 and 20 Homigaunts(or 2 squads of 10 Homis) that would give back a huge chunk of board control.

oops bad mathing..... 1 DS Ripper Brood and 2x 10 Hgaunt Broods

My now legal/non self allying list looks like

Flyrant w/electro devs
Flyrant w/electro devs
Venomthrope
Ripper Brood w/DS
Ripper Brood w/DS
18 Gargoyles
Carnifex w/Devourers in Tyrannocyte
Mawloc
Mawloc

Leviathan:
Flyrant w/electro devs
Flyrant w/electro devs
Mucolid
Mucloid
Mucolid

Bastion w/comms

I refuse to run 5 Tyrants, its simply not fun. I havent ruled out putting a Dimachaeron in place of the Carnifex. Then again, I havent ruled out a third Mawloc either. I learned from Mechanicon that four Tyrants is a LOT of firepower, and that multiple AP2 blasts go a long way.

Eldercaveman wrote:
Just put in my order for 2 Tyrannocytes! Only cost me £60, giftsforgeeks have an offer on using the voucher code EARLYBIRD, but today is the last day it is valid. Gives you an extra 5% off on top of their usual 20% discount!

Off topic! got mine from Element at 30.40 each and next day delivery for free

GFG tend to take a week or so to deliver!

 Iechine wrote:
My now legal/non self allying list looks like

Flyrant w/electro devs
Flyrant w/electro devs
Venomthrope
Ripper Brood w/DS
Ripper Brood w/DS
18 Gargoyles
Carnifex w/Devourers in Tyrannocyte
Mawloc
Mawloc

Leviathan:
Flyrant w/electro devs
Flyrant w/electro devs
Mucolid
Mucloid
Mucolid

Bastion w/comms

I refuse to run 5 Tyrants, its simply not fun. I havent ruled out putting a Dimachaeron in place of the Carnifex. Then again, I havent ruled out a third Mawloc either. I learned from Mechanicon that four Tyrants is a LOT of firepower, and that multiple AP2 blasts go a long way.

This looks like a fun list. As I mentioned earlier I'd never normally run the list I posted I almost never go with more than 2 or 3 Flyrants I was just pointing out the nastyness that we could see in the near future.

 jy2 wrote:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Quick question - can FMCs deep strike?

No..

Yes they can and can also choose which flight mode they are in

That is what I thought too, SHUPPET.

Fighter ace flyrant - ongoing reserves in enemy turn, deep strike somewhere else on your turn, rinse repeat.

Where does it give them that? It's not listed under the FMC Special Rules section. All I see are jink and vector strike.

FMC can move (and start off) as jump infantry. Jump infantry can always choose to deploy by deepstrike from Reserves. Thus, FMC's can also choose to deploy by deepstriking as well.

That's the way I've always seen it...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Well, that's really good. Extra wound on a Flyrant is worth at least 60 points. 5-6 is obviously ridiculous, 1-2 is just a crappier Norn Crown however but I guess that's the risk you run.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So got into a rules conflict the other day - exactly how DOES the Mawloc interact with ruins now? It says multi-level ruins only units on the bottom are hit, there was the interpretation that this means they hit every level since there is no money levels in ruins,here was also the interpretation that it means they hit none seeing as there is technically no "bottom" level although I think that one is quite outlandish. The last interpretation is that Mawlocs still only hit the bottom level of the ruin as it's not so much a rules terms as a term descriptive of terrain regardless of whether or not there is multi-level global ruins in this BrB.

I'd play it as the last, unless the dude's a total rules lawyer. Then I'd argue that ruins have no levels. In all likelihood he already made that argument earlier.

Timeshadow wrote:

 Iechine wrote:
My now legal/non self allying list looks like

Flyrant w/electro devs
Flyrant w/electro devs
Venomthrope
Ripper Brood w/DS
Ripper Brood w/DS
18 Gargoyles
Carnifex w/Devourers in Tyrannocyte
Mawloc
Mawloc

Leviathan:
Flyrant w/electro devs
Flyrant w/electro devs
Mucolid
Mucloid
Mucolid

Bastion w/comms

I refuse to run 5 Tyrants, its simply not fun. I havent ruled out putting a Dimachaeron in place of the Carnifex. Then again, I havent ruled out a third Mawloc either. I learned from Mechanicon that four Tyrants is a LOT of firepower, and that multiple AP2 blasts go a long way.

This looks like a fun list. As I mentioned earlier I'd never normally run the list I posted I almost never go with more than 2 or 3 Flyrants I was just pointing out the nastyness that we could see in the near future.

1. I really hope they allow the 0-1 Fighter ace rule into tournaments. I asked one of the local TO with the new page from the Baal book as reference and he said that it's a straight up no.

2. Would 5 flyrants be competitive though? I mean, it takes up a lot of pts and doesn't leave much space for anything else if your running 17-1850...

Its extremely competitive. Extreme mobility/durability/firepower. It'd be bad news for a lot of matchups without absolutely dedicated antiair, and a lot of it.

Whats the Tyranid Fighter Ace chart look like?

NamelessBard wrote:
While most of the unit write ups seem solid, I am very confused by the grades.

For example, in no world should the tyranid prime be considered an A because it's cheap. It's not cheap.

The grades should be simplified. Adding in +/- make too many categories.

I'd also strongly recommend defining exactly what the grades mean:

A - At least one should be in every list (i.e. Tyrant, Malanthrope/Venomthrope)
B - A good, competitive unit that can easily fit into any competitive list (i.e. Carnifex, LAN biovores)
C - An average unit with some good but some drawbacks (i.e. Tyrannofex, non-LAN Biovores)
D - An okay unit with some serious drawbacks (i.e. Zoanthropes, Hive Guard)
F - No good will come from this unit (i.e. Maleceptor)

I fully agree with this and will take this into account when making the Tervigon/editing the Carnifex write ups. Not sure I agree with the definitions for each category but simplification looks better (and makes write ups easier).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

azazel70820 wrote:
Whats the Tyranid Fighter Ace chart look like?

Something along the lines of pretty fantastic.

 jy2 wrote:

Timeshadow wrote:
Long time lurker here on dakka (Thats what bugs do isn't it)
Just had to post this just so everyone can see the horror of the new rules

Primary Detachment Tyranids(reg Battleforged CAD)

HQ
Flyrant Wings, 2x TL Dev, Electroshock, Fighter Ace
Flyrant as abv

Troop
Rippers (3) Deep Strike
Rippers (3) Deep Strike

Elites
Malanthrope(or 2 Venoms)
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope

Allie: Levaithan Detachment

Flyrant as abv
Flyrant as abv
Flyrant as abv

Troop
Mucilid
Mucilid
Mucilid

Elites
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope

Total 1845(1850 if 2 Venoms insted of Malanthrope)

Is this as sick as it seems to be lol.

Oops forgot to add: This is 5 Fighter Ace Flyrants, 20 Warp Charge and all cheeze...... wow! Just to note Id never feild this unless somone asked for it but just wow!!

Welcome to the Tyranid Tactica, Timeshadow. Always good to see new Tyranid players to this thread.

Yeah, it gets pretty sic with the new formation. 5 flyrants with Fighter Ace is going to be stupid good.

I feel that your army can be improved upon. To me, a psychic choir here is not necessary. You really don't need all those warp dice as the primary focus of your flyrants won't really be to cast powers. Moreover, all those zoans don't really add much to the mobility of your army. They will basically be stuck in their deployment zone.

Rather, consider swapping out some of those zoans (ok, most of them) for lictors. I feel that lictors fit better in your list. One of the weaknesses of the list is that most likely you won't land your flyrants in order to keep them alive. And zoans will be hard pressed to stray too far from their deployment zones. Thus, you will have a tough time getting to the far objectives. Enter the lictor. He is a good disruption unit that can reach the far objectives, help to control your opponent's movements and can be used to guide in deepstriking rippers and mucolids.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fragile wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

P. 19 & 21 of the BRB strongly implies that ruins have levels.

Sadly my version does not seem to have the same pages as yours. But, some quotes about levels and rules interactions would be nice. 6th edition had a great explanations about levels.

It has something to do with unit coherency being 6" vertically when on different levels of terrain or ruins. I'll find quotes later when I have the time.

I'm just asking because I can't recall...but are not Zoeys Jump Infantry? So can't they Deep Strike? I've always thought they could, but never been tempted. But seeing them criticized for lack of mobility, causes me to jump to Zoeys defense!

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:
While most of the unit write ups seem solid, I am very confused by the grades.
For example, in no world should the tyranid prime be considered an A because it's cheap. It's not cheap.

Cheap is subjective. I use it in the literal sense. You're bringing the bare minimum HQ unit, and I rather pointedly said that your not bringing it for extreme murdering. If your bringing something cheap, it's because your putting the other 80+s you would have fielded on an HQ elsewhere.

But that's silly. A prime + 80 is a complete waste of points. You won't get better mileage out of those 80 points in something else than a flyrant.

 Frozocrone wrote:

I fully agree with this and will take this into account when making the Tervigon/editing the Carnifex write ups. Not sure I agree with the definitions for each category but simplification looks better (and makes write ups easier).

Either way, something that is easy to reference that has everyone working off the same ranking is necessary.

Lol no they are not jump! I wonder where you got they from

pinecone77 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

Timeshadow wrote:
Long time lurker here on dakka (Thats what bugs do isn't it)
Just had to post this just so everyone can see the horror of the new rules

Primary Detachment Tyranids(reg Battleforged CAD)

HQ
Flyrant Wings, 2x TL Dev, Electroshock, Fighter Ace
Flyrant as abv

Troop
Rippers (3) Deep Strike
Rippers (3) Deep Strike

Elites
Malanthrope(or 2 Venoms)
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope

Allie: Levaithan Detachment

Flyrant as abv
Flyrant as abv
Flyrant as abv

Troop
Mucilid
Mucilid
Mucilid

Elites
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope

Total 1845(1850 if 2 Venoms insted of Malanthrope)

Is this as sick as it seems to be lol.

Oops forgot to add: This is 5 Fighter Ace Flyrants, 20 Warp Charge and all cheeze...... wow! Just to note Id never feild this unless somone asked for it but just wow!!

Welcome to the Tyranid Tactica, Timeshadow. Always good to see new Tyranid players to this thread.

Yeah, it gets pretty sic with the new formation. 5 flyrants with Fighter Ace is going to be stupid good.

I feel that your army can be improved upon. To me, a psychic choir here is not necessary. You really don't need all those warp dice as the primary focus of your flyrants won't really be to cast powers. Moreover, all those zoans don't really add much to the mobility of your army. They will basically be stuck in their deployment zone.

Rather, consider swapping out some of those zoans (ok, most of them) for lictors. I feel that lictors fit better in your list. One of the weaknesses of the list is that most likely you won't land your flyrants in order to keep them alive. And zoans will be hard pressed to stray too far from their deployment zones. Thus, you will have a tough time getting to the far objectives. Enter the lictor. He is a good disruption unit that can reach the far objectives, help to control your opponent's movements and can be used to guide in deepstriking rippers and mucolids.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fragile wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

P. 19 & 21 of the BRB strongly implies that ruins have levels.

Sadly my version does not seem to have the same pages as yours. But, some quotes about levels and rules interactions would be nice. 6th edition had a great explanations about levels.

It has something to do with unit coherency being 6" vertically when on different levels of terrain or ruins. I'll find quotes later when I have the time.

I'm just asking because I can't recall...but are not Zoeys Jump Infantry? So can't they Deep Strike? I've always thought they could, but never been tempted. But seeing them criticized for lack of mobility, causes me to jump to Zoeys defense!

Alas, they are not :/

@Timeshadow I would field that list against my friends Daemons, as he likes to play Daemon Factory (and we always be TFG against each other just to see which cheese tastes better)

Kinda off to the side, but while I was eating breakfast I was noodling around with lists, and I saw an odd thing. I was looking at if pods would help make Tervigon a "must take, to strong choice" again.

HQ: Tervigon, Thorax Hive, 205
HQ: Winged Dakka'rant, Hive, Ace 275

That is the identical cost as two Winged Dakka'rants...

Troops: Tervigon, Hive 205
Troops: Spinegaunts, x20 +10 Devilgaunts 160
Troops: Rippers, x3 Tunnel 45
Troops: as above 45

Tyrannocyst,x2 150

That all runs 935, plus 150 for the Pods is 1085. That is a Lot of power at a low cost.

Anyone have any idea where in this thread the Dimachaeron rules were posted? I cant find it and theres a ton to go through.

EDIT: NVM, 148

pinecone77 wrote:
Kinda off to the side, but while I was eating breakfast I was noodling around with lists, and I saw an odd thing. I was looking at if pods would help make Tervigon a "must take, to strong choice" again.

HQ: Tervigon, Thorax Hive, 205
HQ: Winged Dakka'rant, Hive, Ace 275

That is the identical cost as two Winged Dakka'rants...

Troops: Tervigon, Hive 205
Troops: Spinegaunts, x20 +10 Devilgaunts 160
Troops: Rippers, x3 Tunnel 45
Troops: as above 45

Tyrannocyst,x2 150

That all runs 935, plus 150 for the Pods is 1085. That is a Lot of power at a low cost.

Drop the rippers for a solid 1000pt list. And you have the choice of 2 tervi in a pod, or a tervi and guants in a pod......

Wow, what's going on!?!

I feel like the Tyranid train is running away down the 40K track!

Can anyone recap what is/is not being released upcoming? So far I've been seeing stuff about formations, death from the skies, new models and lots of other stuff....is there a good place to get a running summary of CONFIRMED releases?

Just an opinion.... But

Hive guard + Spore Pod = Great Skimmer Killer (Even Wave Serpents)

I dropped 2 Units, with 2 DakkaFexs, have 2 Dakka Flyrants near just wrecked.

Yes its 165pts for 3, but Ignore Cover S8 was really good, Popped 2 Skimmers and then was a HUGE threat and took more than enough shooting away for my Fex's/flrants to get into good positions to really do some harm.

Its not ideal for all lists I understand, But against skimmer heavy lists I found it really good.

Dakka Flyrant Egrubs
Dakka Flyrant Egrubs
Dakka Flyrant Egrubs

Mucoloid
Mucoloid
Mucoloid

Dimachaeron

Mawloc
Mawloc
Mawloc
Tyrannocyte

Deathleaper Assassin Brood

1840

Honestly on the fighter ace I think 2/3rds of them are way to powerful for 35 points.

35 points for +1 wound is a bargain, however the ability to NEVER have to stay on the table for a turn is just too powerful. Come on 24, cast powers shoot, go off the table during their turn. Rinse and repeat, or depending on how everything went decide to just fly off.

Now unless we are missing something about it only applying while flying, or that they are required to remain flying all game. Now you can use it to charge in, hold them up through their movement phase then disappear

 Leth wrote:
Honestly on the fighter ace I think 2/3rds of them are way to powerful for 35 points.

35 points for +1 wound is a bargain, however the ability to NEVER have to stay on the table for a turn is just too powerful. Come on 24, cast powers shoot, go off the table during their turn. Rinse and repeat, or depending on how everything went decide to just fly off.

Now unless we are missing something about it only applying while flying, or that they are required to remain flying all game. Now you can use it to charge in, hold them up through their movement phase then disappear

And That! Is how we play Tyranids in the big city!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frozocrone wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

Timeshadow wrote:
Long time lurker here on dakka (Thats what bugs do isn't it)
Just had to post this just so everyone can see the horror of the new rules

Primary Detachment Tyranids(reg Battleforged CAD)

HQ
Flyrant Wings, 2x TL Dev, Electroshock, Fighter Ace
Flyrant as abv

Troop
Rippers (3) Deep Strike
Rippers (3) Deep Strike

Elites
Malanthrope(or 2 Venoms)
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope

Allie: Levaithan Detachment

Flyrant as abv
Flyrant as abv
Flyrant as abv

Troop
Mucilid
Mucilid
Mucilid

Elites
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope

Total 1845(1850 if 2 Venoms insted of Malanthrope)

Is this as sick as it seems to be lol.

Oops forgot to add: This is 5 Fighter Ace Flyrants, 20 Warp Charge and all cheeze...... wow! Just to note Id never feild this unless somone asked for it but just wow!!

Welcome to the Tyranid Tactica, Timeshadow. Always good to see new Tyranid players to this thread.

Yeah, it gets pretty sic with the new formation. 5 flyrants with Fighter Ace is going to be stupid good.

I feel that your army can be improved upon. To me, a psychic choir here is not necessary. You really don't need all those warp dice as the primary focus of your flyrants won't really be to cast powers. Moreover, all those zoans don't really add much to the mobility of your army. They will basically be stuck in their deployment zone.

Rather, consider swapping out some of those zoans (ok, most of them) for lictors. I feel that lictors fit better in your list. One of the weaknesses of the list is that most likely you won't land your flyrants in order to keep them alive. And zoans will be hard pressed to stray too far from their deployment zones. Thus, you will have a tough time getting to the far objectives. Enter the lictor. He is a good disruption unit that can reach the far objectives, help to control your opponent's movements and can be used to guide in deepstriking rippers and mucolids.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fragile wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

P. 19 & 21 of the BRB strongly implies that ruins have levels.

Sadly my version does not seem to have the same pages as yours. But, some quotes about levels and rules interactions would be nice. 6th edition had a great explanations about levels.

It has something to do with unit coherency being 6" vertically when on different levels of terrain or ruins. I'll find quotes later when I have the time.

I'm just asking because I can't recall...but are not Zoeys Jump Infantry? So can't they Deep Strike? I've always thought they could, but never been tempted. But seeing them criticized for lack of mobility, causes me to jump to Zoeys defense!

Alas, they are not :/

@Timeshadow I would field that list against my friends Daemons, as he likes to play Daemon Factory (and we always be TFG against each other just to see which cheese tastes better)

Dang! Must be the meds...I was Sooo sure.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Just an opinion.... But

Hive guard + Spore Pod = Great Skimmer Killer (Even Wave Serpents)

I dropped 2 Units, with 2 DakkaFexs, have 2 Dakka Flyrants near just wrecked.

Yes its 165pts for 3, but Ignore Cover S8 was really good, Popped 2 Skimmers and then was a HUGE threat and took more than enough shooting away for my Fex's/flrants to get into good positions to really do some harm.

Its not ideal for all lists I understand, But against skimmer heavy lists I found it really good.

Statistically, 3 Hive Guard should do 2.5 Hull points to a skimmer if they get to shoot at AV10. A Dakkafex will do 4.5 hull points in shooting, but the skimmer can Jink 1/2 of those away (Or 2/3 if they have a Jink bonus). So generally it is going to be more like 2.25. A dakkafex is better in a TAC list, but if you are Tailoring Hive Guard are probably the way to go.

Also just something to think about. What can other armies buy for 240 points (Hive Guard + Tyrannocyte) to deal with wave serpents?

NamelessBard wrote:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:
While most of the unit write ups seem solid, I am very confused by the grades.
For example, in no world should the tyranid prime be considered an A because it's cheap. It's not cheap.

Cheap is subjective. I use it in the literal sense. You're bringing the bare minimum HQ unit, and I rather pointedly said that your not bringing it for extreme murdering. If your bringing something cheap, it's because your putting the other 80+s you would have fielded on an HQ elsewhere.

But that's silly. A prime + 80 is a complete waste of points. You won't get better mileage out of those 80 points in something else than a flyrant.

Yeah the Prime is the most expensive HQ we have other than the Old One Eye really. I mean, Flyrant may cost you more points, but he's WORTH them. Tyranid Prime wastes a bunch of points on a crappy HQ. If you are trying to just take a barebones HQ, Deathleaper is 5 points more and a gakload better. On top of that, in no grading system should a Prime be an A. He's one of like the only 5 unplayably bad units left in the dex. He was barely even playable last dex, since then he has been nerfed harder than every single unit in the dex. If someone finished their review with him being an A grade unit I really think a little more thought could have been put into it

NamelessBard wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:

I fully agree with this and will take this into account when making the Tervigon/editing the Carnifex write ups. Not sure I agree with the definitions for each category but simplification looks better (and makes write ups easier).

Either way, something that is easy to reference that has everyone working off the same ranking is necessary.

First list:
Hive Fleet Detachement

HQ
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Egrubs, 2 Devourers

Hive Tyrant, Wings, Egrubs, 2 Devourers

Hive Tyrant, Wings, Egrubs, 2 Devourers

Elites
Zoanthrope

Troops
Mucolid

Mucolid

Mucolid

FA
Dimachaeron

15 Gargoyles

HS
Tyrannocyte, Venom Cannons

Tyrannocyte, Venom Cannons

Hyper Toxic Node

Hive Tyrant, Wings, Egrubs, 2 Devourers, Toxin Sacs

Venomthrope

Venomthrope

Venomthrope

Toxicrene

NamelessBard wrote:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:
While most of the unit write ups seem solid, I am very confused by the grades.
For example, in no world should the tyranid prime be considered an A because it's cheap. It's not cheap.

Cheap is subjective. I use it in the literal sense. You're bringing the bare minimum HQ unit, and I rather pointedly said that your not bringing it for extreme murdering. If your bringing something cheap, it's because your putting the other 80+s you would have fielded on an HQ elsewhere.

But that's silly. A prime + 80 is a complete waste of points. You won't get better mileage out of those 80 points in something else than a flyrant.

I think of the bigger game in mind. If your playing up to a big tourney and you start fielding Flyrants in spades, your opponent will expect you to bring Flyrants. And lets just say he and a couple others decide to bring in plenty of AA units, he is going to be more than a little upset when you bring along more than enough ground pounding TMCs. 80 points. That is the difference between a Carnifex and a Dimachaeron. 80 points. That is a Tyrannocyte and change. 80 points. That can be the difference between a Biovore and an Exocrine. 80 points can go a long way when you spend it right.

Uh, fix the formating, that is horrible to read