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I've seen the term "Lictor Shaming" a few time in this thread, could someone gimmie the rundown on what that is, tia?

 jy2 wrote:
You're on a roll, Hunger. Tyrant Guard and Spore Mines for you!

I like that. On a roll has a much better ring than "too much time on his hands". Anyhow, Expect them both tonight after I get off work. I have to put a bit more work into the Tyrant Guard one, but it should be fairly well done.

 Tequila Ranger wrote:
I've seen the term "Lictor Shaming" a few time in this thread, could someone gimmie the rundown on what that is, tia?

It's the name of the list OrdoSean used to win a tournament- he took the Deathleaper's Assassin Brood and and a few more lictors. The discussion is a few pages back.

I will continue to practice SL with barb combo but from the 4 games I played yesterday I can tell you Preferred Enemy on the barb for the entire game is worth it's weight in gold. Considering most of the time his wound need is anything but a 1 and rerolling 1's is cool (LOL) he is going to do 6+ wounds a volley on average.

ALSO! I want to ask you guys... Should I drop e grubs on 2 of my 3 flyrants to afford Ace of the Sky on my WL flyrant? I am just looking for feedback on the idea. I can't drop points elsewhere as these are the only upgrades I have and otherwise I have minimum points in troops. Lmk!

You have a PE buffed, shrouded heirduyle for hard armored targets at range. The egrubs May or may not be as needed.

 gigasnail wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Just had an amazing battle against Geoff "InControl" and his tournament Tyranids. This was a rematch. The last game, he won when his barbed hierodule stepped on both of my Necron bargelords and he rolled a 6, thus removing both of them. I then failed both of the 4+ return-to-play saves as well.

This time, Geoff ran the new Hive Fleet Leviathan detachment + Primary detachment. His list:

Primary:

Swarmlord

Malanthrope

3x3 Deepstriking rippers

Barbed Hierodule

HFL:

Dakka Flyrant - Egrubs
Dakka Flyrant - Egrubs
Dakka Flyrant - Egrubs

Mucolid
Mucolid
Mucolid

assuming 3 flyrants, SL + malanthrope to buff heirduyle? first legit useful deployment of swarmy i've seen since the new codex dropped.
it's a strange new world we're living in.

but is preferred enemy worth 285 pts...

I dunno, ask him how it played.

It isn't just preferred enemy. It's a +1 on reserves (I have 3 mucloids and 3x3 rippers) it is a CC badass with instant death attacks and it is a 3 WC psycher that has additional buffs necessary in a nid list.

I used to run the dima as my barb body guard but the swarmlord for a bit more is a much more effective force multiplier

Alright guys, I signed up for the Venomthrope and Malanthrope a few days back, and it's the weekend now, so it's time for me to deliver! I really think these two reviews had to be written together, because they are very similar in role.

Venomthrope:

When the Tyranid codex first came out back in January, the Venomthrope jumped back into competitive lists thanks to the massive boosts it provides to the army. When the book came out, the Venomthrope stood out as perhaps the best choice in the codex, second only to the always-popular Flyrant. Venomthropes are rather cheap, costing as much as a Rhino and a Meltagun. The Venomthrope's value comes from the 6" bubble of shrouded it supplies to all Tyranid units with a model in range. Tyranids as an army have historically struggled with being shot off the board before they had a chance to advance, but the Venomthrope guarantees that any model in terrain will have at least a 3++ cover save and very often a 2++. Also, any FMC that happens to jink near a Venomthrope will benefit from a 2++ cover save. Compared to the alpha-strikes that we used to suffer from, Tyranids are now much more durable than they were before, and with Venomthrope support, Tyranids can comfortably elect to second without being afraid of losing half of their army turn 1.

Of course, the Venomthrope does have it's weaknesses. Most noticeably, the fact that it's not very tough. At Toughness 4 with 2 wounds and only a 5+ save, a Venomthrope is very easy to focus down if your opponent has ignores cover or decent firepower. After all, even in ideal cover a Venomthrope is only as hard to kill as two Terminators. Fortunately for Tyranid players, there are several ways to help this. The first is to deploy him out of Line of sight, like the inside of a ruin, or to buy a Fortification. Due to the rules of "Area of Effect" powers, the 6" shrouded bubble of a Venomthrope is measured from the hull of a Bastion that it is embarked in. This not only increases the area of effect tremendously, it also helps the Venomthrope become much more durable. Few opponents are able to kill a Bastion at long range turn 1, especially when there are several MCs running towards them. As a bonus, all models on top of or behind a Bastion will get at least a 4++ cover save, which then increases to a 2++, making the Bastion a great firing position for the likes of Biovores. The one downside to this approach is that the Venomthrope is completely immobile, and so you will have to disembark eventually to continue to provide cover.

Secondary roles: Although the Venomthrope is best used as a support beast to help the rest of your swarm survive, it is also handy in assault when times are desperate. Venomthropes have 2 attacks each base and strike at Initiative 7, with a 2++ poison and so can threaten many targets. But, they are very fragile in CC so I would personally never send them into combat alone, and never with anything tougher than a Tactical squad.

Grade: B+ (on foot), A- (in a Bastion)

Mlanthropes:

The first thing to understand about the Malanthrope is that he is a Forge World unit, and therefore it is polite to gain permission before bringing him in a game. The second thing to understand is that he is an absolute monster of a unit, better than a Venomthrope in every way and arguably the best unit available to us. Malanthropes, like Venomthropes, provide a 6" bubble of shrouded that will help protect your units. But, for a nickel less than 2 Venomthropes, a Malanthrope has 4 wounds, Toughness 5, and a 3+ armor save, and best of all is a Synapse creature. On the one hand, he is the ultimate backfield support unit because he is a single cheap package to provide both Synapse and shrouded, and is cheaper and tougher than a Venomthrope and Zoanthrope combined. Thanks to this increased toughness, a Malanthrope can fill the roles a Venomthrope can't, by advancing upfield alone and still being tough, thanks to his improved stats and Regeneration. It's also a common tactic to buy two single Malanthropes and run them upfield to share the love of special rules they provide.

Malanthropes are durable enough that a Bastion isn't required, but it still is not a bad idea to spread out his Shrouded and Synapse Area of Effects. However, I would plan on getting outside the box late game and moving upfield to help support the army. And excellent option here is to buy an escape hatch for the Bastion so that the Malanthrope can shoot 18" upfield when he chooses to get out. Like his little brother the Venomthrope, a Malanthrope is quite handy in Close Combat,. Thanks to fleet, he is a little easier to get there, and his improved stats means he will hold up better in combat, while he has three 2+ poison attacks at initiative 5. The Malanthrope also has a host of special rules, he may issue challenges, but is not a character and so may not be challenged. In a challenge though, on a roll of 4+ he limits his enemy to half of his attacks, and initiative one thanks to his grasping tail. Better yet, if the Malanthrope is part of a combat that destroys an enemy unit, the Mal may not sweeping advance but instead gives Preferred enemy to any Tyranid in his synapse range. While a Malanthrope alone is not a great close combat unit, he certainly has nothing to fear and is wonderful in a multi-assault with other units to help him out. I think it's important not to lose sight of his role, as a support bug, but the Malanthrope is still useful in a ton of situations, making him the best unit for his points in the whole Tyranid arsenal.

Grades: A+ (on foot), A+ (in a Bastion)

If Swarmlord is in reserves, do I still get to add +1 to reserve rolls?

Also, if I join Deathleaper to a unit of say Gargoyles, do they not scatter either? Also, do they gain stealth?

I dont know things.

 Iechine wrote:
If Swarmlord is in reserves, do I still get to add +1 to reserve rolls?

Yes, it's 'whilst the Swarmlord is alive'.

Also, if I join Deathleaper to a unit of say Gargoyles, do they not scatter either? Also, do they gain stealth?

The Deathleaper isn't an Independent Character, so he can't join units. (For future reference, the Tyranid Prime is the only Tyranid Independent Character there currently is.)

Oops, misread it, fair enough.

Solid write-ups for the Venom/Malanthrope!

This is my cut throat, refined down no nonsense tournament list. I have to order a Dimachaeron which is no big deal as I need another to paint and sell, and I have to figure out (like everyone else) what to do for the Mucolid situation.

Critique appreciated.

1850pts
Flyrant w/Devs and Electro
Flyrant w/Devs and Electro
Ripper w/DS
Ripper
Venomthrope
Dimachaeron w/Tyrannocyte
11 Gargoyles
Mawloc
Mawloc

Leviathan:
Flyrant w/Devs and Electro
Flyrant w/Devs and Electro
Mucolid
Mucolid
Mucolid

Bastion w/Comms

The Gargoyles will have to really take the 2" spacing to the max to do their job. The bigass bastion helps alleviate the screening issue some.

Turn two is really rough on the opponent. Four flyrants speaks for itself, but the Mawlocs and Dima cannot be ignored. The Mucolids will arrive in threatening positions all around.

Is there a reason you have 11 Gargoyles and a unit of Rippers that don't DS?

First turn screen and objective holders for my side. I could take 10 and have the DS on the ripper brood.

 Iechine wrote:
First turn screen and objective holders for my side. I could take 10 and have the DS on the ripper brood.

I'd probably get the deep strike. You don't have to use, but it gives you more options. 1 model probably won't make or break a screening unit.

iNcontroL wrote:
It isn't just preferred enemy. It's a +1 on reserves (I have 3 mucloids and 3x3 rippers) it is a CC badass with instant death attacks and it is a 3 WC psycher that has additional buffs necessary in a nid list.

I used to run the dima as my barb body guard but the swarmlord for a bit more is a much more effective force multiplier

Swarmy with no guard? Sorry, haven't watched the latest batrep.

You probably play more VS knights than most. PE on the Heirodule add about 1 extra hit on average. How often were Egrubs helping you beat knights?

My first thought would be to drop one of the ripper squads. In BAO style, I would think that 2 DS rippers plus the rest of your army would be enough to claim 3 objectives and contest at least another.

iNcontroL wrote:
It isn't just preferred enemy. It's a +1 on reserves (I have 3 mucloids and 3x3 rippers) it is a CC badass with instant death attacks and it is a 3 WC psycher that has additional buffs necessary in a nid list.

I used to run the dima as my barb body guard but the swarmlord for a bit more is a much more effective force multiplier

I actually like the list, for what it's worth Geoff. But I don't think it's finished. Fors starters, let's be realistic - it IS just P.E. that you are taking the Swarmlord for. +1 to reserves matters very little you have a grand total of like just over 100 pts in reserves, and it doesn't matter hugely what turn they come in either. You can't justify the Swarmlords cost through this. And for everything else, Dima is cheaper, more durable, and puts out the same damage. Also, you are running the biggest glass cannon in the game (57 points for each T6 3+ wound! holy gak, our average MC pays <30) by walking it up the board since you can't afford to pod it and miss out on a turn of p.e., AND in a list where it is absolutely the least durable thigh in the army, sitting next to 3 Flyrants and a Barby. On the plus side, it's hard to find a model that benefits more from P.E. than a Heirodule, however I don't like it's chances currently.

I think it's best to accept that this just "doesn't quite work" in conjunction all together. 3 Flyrants, Swarmlord, and the Barby, something's gotta go, and while I like what Swarmy has the potential to do, considering how easy it is to kill and kite means that realistically it's doing a lot less for the points. I think just going for a Dima instead,mans using the remaining points to take that flyer Ace you wanted is definitely gonna be one step forward for your list.

I just finished a game with Swarmlord. His biggest problem is lack of fleet. Turn 1 he ran 2". Turn 2 he ran 1" Turn 3 he failed a 5" charge. Turn 4 he failed another 5" charge. Turn 5 he made a 3" change and killed a bunch of stuff. Miraculously, the game ended turn 5 with a perfect 15 - 15 point tie, but if Swarmy had fleet it would have been a blowout.

tag8833 wrote:
I just finished a game with Swarmlord. His biggest problem is lack of fleet. Turn 1 he ran 2". Turn 2 he ran 1" Turn 3 he failed a 5" charge. Turn 4 he failed another 5" charge. Turn 5 he made a 3" change and killed a bunch of stuff. Miraculously, the game ended turn 5 with a perfect 15 - 15 point tie, but if Swarmy had fleet it would have been a blowout.

Yeah, Adrenal/Fleet is practically mandatory on a CC big bug (or a CC bug in general )

pinecone77 wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
I just finished a game with Swarmlord. His biggest problem is lack of fleet. Turn 1 he ran 2". Turn 2 he ran 1" Turn 3 he failed a 5" charge. Turn 4 he failed another 5" charge. Turn 5 he made a 3" change and killed a bunch of stuff. Miraculously, the game ended turn 5 with a perfect 15 - 15 point tie, but if Swarmy had fleet it would have been a blowout.

Yeah, Adrenal/Fleet is practically mandatory on a CC big bug (or a CC bug in general )

Or a tyrannocyte

So with Hive Fleet Leviathan I can comfortably field 4 Flyrants and 4 Mawlocs now ...

Primary Detachment: 895

Dakka Flyrant - Egrubs
Lictor
2x 3 Ripper Swarms - Deepstrike
3x Mawloc
Bastion - Comms Relay

Hive Fleet Leviation Detachment: 955

3x Dakka Flyrant - Egrubs
Lictor
3x 1 Mucolid
Mawloc

I can pound from the air and the ground. Whether or not this is compwetitive remains to be seen but an eight MC list will not be easy to play against.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
I just finished a game with Swarmlord. His biggest problem is lack of fleet. Turn 1 he ran 2". Turn 2 he ran 1" Turn 3 he failed a 5" charge. Turn 4 he failed another 5" charge. Turn 5 he made a 3" change and killed a bunch of stuff. Miraculously, the game ended turn 5 with a perfect 15 - 15 point tie, but if Swarmy had fleet it would have been a blowout.

Yeah, Adrenal/Fleet is practically mandatory on a CC big bug (or a CC bug in general )

Or a tyrannocyte

I'll try Swarmy in a Tyrannocyte eventually, but I don't like the idea. He has no shooting, and so can run every turn. That gives him a turn 3 charge. He has pretty decent survivability if you give him Tyrant guard (which you should).

Putting him in a Tyrannocyte mainly alters your opponent's target priority. It is more simple on Turn 1 without the looming threat of Swarmlord on the table. On turn 2 when he comes in, he Launches to the top of the target priority, and he does so without shrouding or Tyrant Guard, and so he dies. Unless you are doing a null deployment, it just seems like a waste of points. You could put a Dimacharon in a pod, and drop him in the opponents backfield to die on the turn he comes in, and that is 95 points less, and 1 extra wound.

If you are doing a Null deployment, and trying to bring in everything major in Tyrannocytes or deep strike or outflank, I worry that Tyrannocytes are too expensive to reach critical mass of offensive power.

That list is durable as hell and I doubt you will ever be tabled

That being said, the Lictors look like wasted points, 2 is going to do nothing.

 felixcat wrote:
So with Hive Fleet Leviathan I can comfortably field 4 Flyrants and 4 Mawlocs now ...

Primary Detachment: 895

Dakka Flyrant - Egrubs
Lictor
2x 3 Ripper Swarms - Deepstrike
3x Mawloc
Bastion - Comms Relay

Hive Fleet Leviation Detachment: 955

3x Dakka Flyrant - Egrubs
Lictor
3x 1 Mucolid
Mawloc

I can pound from the air and the ground. Whether or not this is compwetitive remains to be seen but an eight MC list will not be easy to play against.

brutal. i still dunno i'm a fan of the lictor thing for general use. play it, see how it does.

Well, I'm going to be honest. I promised 2 reviews but I have quite a bit of work to do. I completely rewrote them to be more insightful and I am going to have to release the Tyrant Guard later on this Sunday after I can finish it up to be better.

Spore Mine Cluster

Spore mines are one of the most strategic assets available in the Tyranid codex, though in the most bizarre ways.

1. The spore mine received a massive points decrease.

2. They lost random control dice.

3. They lost Orbital Deployment but gained Floating Death.

Before we go in, we need to look at the drastic changes in the playstyle of these little used orbs of exploding death. While in the previous book, these actually were fairly expensive for a full cluster, they are now half the cost, with more than twice the use. In the old codex, Tyranid players used to consider these to be highly unreliable due to the fact that much of the control was completely random, and most players based their potential on one ability; Orbital Deployment. You were able to deploy these things as soon as deployment zones were chosen, but before even units were placed, which allowed you to blockade enemy fortifications or favorable areas. Unfortunetely, upon a single detonation of a group placed in unit coherency, you could set off the entire change and almost assuredly give up a first blood if the opponent deployed in vehicles. However, others realized that there is no rule forcing a player to deploy in coherency allowed the more clever players to deploy them farther out to avoid daisy-chained explosions and deny more area while minimizing losses to the unit. Remember, units only take wounds, even outside of unit coherency, based on how many of them can be reached by weapons. This meant that 3 full units, set even 4-6 inches apart with alternating models from the units could leave your opponent frustrated when he is forced to waste multiple units fire when he can only take out 1-2 a volley per unit with them widely scattered. Now, I want you to keep this in mind to a degree going into these new tactics, because they will play a fairly important part of the new Spore Mine Cluster.

So, lets cover movement. Spore mines have a set 3" movement. This is great for dealing with unit coherency, because it allows you to pull several tricks if you choose not to deep strike them, and use them in a defensive area. If you spread out your units outside of 2 inch coherency, say 3-5 inches, you have a guaranteed safety line to get them to snap into coherency for an assault. If you're conga-lining them and an opponent deep strikes nearby, he may decide to avoid firing into the mines, thinking that in such a disfunctional deployment, they serve no threat. However, a quick 3 inch movement snap can bring them all back into function and allow you, a good assault roll pending, to suddenly drop a massive pie plate since according to the Floating Death rule, they do not assault in close combat, but the entire cluster detonates, and you simply choose that closest spore mine. This gives them a far greater presence in your backfield since, if you deep strike, you are forced to cluster them in base to base contact and a toughness value of 1 will not save them.

Now, lets move onto the main reason you will bring these models. A spore mine is guaranteed a S4 AP4 Ignores Cover large blast, but can go up to a S9 AP 4 blast with a full cluster behind it. This means that a full brood is a threat to any multi-wound T4 characters without EW. A lucky hit could end them before they begin, and that isn't a bad thing when you consider that you paid only 30 points for them. They also can be fairly threatening to tanking, given that they have a good chance to damage any ground vehicles. Their use increases when they charge into combat. In assault, the wounds taken by spore mines do not count towards resolution, even if they detonate, which gives you extra chances to potentially catch your opponent several wounds short in assault and force them to fall back.

The last benefit to the spore mine is that they can be produced by so many other Tyranids as free additions to the army. Biovores, Harpies, and Sporecysts can all produce Spore Mine clusters in spades, and with each first blast, you create d3 spore mines which can give you potentially S4-6 large blasts that can assault on the turn of creation since they do not count as having been deploying, etc.

Grades: B- (Vanilla)

What do you guys think about this list? I don't face any alpha strike lists.

Flyrant w/ BL Devs & Egrubs with Flyer Ace
Flyrant w/ BL Devs & Egrubs

Rippers x3
Rippers x3

Venomthrope
Zoanthrope Brood (2 Zoans + Neuro) with Tyrannocyte w/ Venoms

Dimachearon with Tyrannocyte w/ Venoms

Mawloc
Mawloc
Carnifex w/ BL Devs with Tyrannocyte w/ Venoms

Bastion w/ Comms Relay

Comes out to 1843 so 7 points under right now. I know it's only got the Venomthrope and two Flyrants on the table on turn 1, but I feel like with the right placement I'd be ok.

Thoughts?

I've played well over 100 games at this point (yeah I know) with the barb and I agree he is a "glass cannon" of sorts.. but he has taken my nids to the next level. Him + malanthrope is the cornerstone of the best nid list in my opinion unless you are going skyblight or 3+ flyrants + something at this point. I have also found one of his biggest weaknesses is CC badasses. Obviously ignores cover monster hunter or low AP stuff will decimate him but that is true with all nids so at that point you have to be a good general and do things like thin out the top threat / paroxy them down etc.. so with that CC weakness I have found him paired with a Dima is essential.. as a bodyguard. The dima adds the extra scare with it's WS and Initiative being so high and the access to insta death. With the SL I am getting the same things minus fleet which does suck but you gain 3 powers, potentially MORE instant death attacks and a guy who is actually more resilient in CC. I played 4 games with the PE on the barb and I can tell you it isn't as simple as rerolling 1 miss. On average sure but then to wound it goes from 1/6 lost wounds to 6/6 (potentially) and it has saved bad rolls and made good rolls better etc.. it was brutal.

I came 1 game short of winning a GT with a list like this in my first year of competing of which I have now improved upon it Maybe you are right but I will see after extensive play testing and eventually T-Shift, Guardian Cup and LVO in january/feb

I get the impression that that post was a response to mine, however you must have just skimmed what I said, because I didn't call the Barby a glass cannon at all, I said the Swarmlord is a glass cannon, hes 300 points of 5 walking, close combat oriented glass cannon wounds, and in your list you have him walking up the field, on a board where he is the easiest thing to kill in your entire list, with absolutely nothing supporting him.
This doesn't strike me as a good combination, you may have just taken him as a guard for the Barby but he needs a guard of his own or he's just meat, and if really for the role you want to use him as, honestly you'd be better just swapping him for Tyrant Guard, for the same price of that Swarmlord you get 6 of them, which gives you 12 wounds instead of 5, thats a 250% increase to durability and still does everything your list wants except the Preferred Enemy, which you aren't going to be getting a lot of the time anyway because that Swarmlord is gunna melt. It's a trade off but strikes me as a critical one, because as it stands that Swarmlord reads to me like a 300 point firstblood sacrifice. Just my opinion, doesn't have to be Tyrant Guard tho im convinced that Swarmlord is the wrong choice, but I'm not arguing the effectiveness of the Barby + Malanthrope here I think that's pretty damn good.