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 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

 Iechine wrote:
Gargoyles? I can do Gargoyles. if no one called it before me.

Nope, your good. Think you can do the Harpy and Crone as well? Lech, your one of the only people I can think of that has run Skyblight recently in your Batreps.

Unfortunately I've got a lot of work this evening so I may only get one done, sorry.

Gargoyles: (by Iechine)

Gargoyles are a highly mobile version of Termagants, occupying a fast attack slot. While they are often compared to their groundpounding brothers, they have many abilities that set them apart and make them a worthwhile choice in a Tyranid force.

1. Highly mobile. As jump infantry, Gargoyles flow over the battlefield 12" at a time, ignoring terrain all together. In addition, your broods are able to deep strike.

2. Cheap tarpit unit to the extreme. With the ability to exchange attacks for a poisoned (6+) attack that forces a Blind check if it hits, Gargoyles have the ability to get in and stay in with any opponent. For a little more than the cost of a Dakkafex you
can have 30 fast moving wounds on the field.

3. IB: Hunt. Whereas Termagants tuck tail and run and Hormagaunts inflict wounds on each other, Gargoyles hit the deck and wait it out. Though not fearless, you're less likely to be pulling your hair out when IB checks dont go your way.

Gargoyles appear in most competitive lists, and with good reason. Although they are 50% more expensive than Termagants, their highly mobile in an edition where mobility is paramount. They can easily keep pace with the Flyrant, and its their
ability to synergize with the most popular HQ choice that makes them a mainstay. Together with a Venomthrope's shrouding buff, Gargoyles serve as prime meatshields for Tyrants when going 2nd. They protect your Hive Tyrants and then surge
forward, covering up to 18" on turn one and becoming an almost immediate threat to anything on the ground. While its generally considered wiser to take bodies over upgrades, Gargoyles can be given either Adrenal Glands (Better) or Toxin Sacs (Worse).
With broods up to 30, an upgraded Swarm is a death sentence for AV10.

Gargoyles where pushed further into the competitive field when the Skyblight formation gave them Objective Secured and the ability to regenerate. As Skyblight was (and possibly remains) the most competitive Tyranid detachment, Gargoyles have become
all the more a constant in Tyranid bug lists where wings reign supreme. Their fragile 6+ save is most often buffed with shrouding from a Venom or Malanthrope, which makes these broods surprisingly durable. They add considerably to the threat overload principle
that Tyranids rely on. Shots at your Gargoyle broods protect your Tyrants, but if left ignored a Gargoyle brood can mount a highly effective turn 2 assault.

Gargoyles A, AG Gargoyles B, Poisoned Gargoyles C (Diminishing returns)

pinecone77 wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
First list:
Hive Fleet Detachement

HQ
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Egrubs, 2 Devourers

Hive Tyrant, Wings, Egrubs, 2 Devourers

Hive Tyrant, Wings, Egrubs, 2 Devourers

Elites
Zoanthrope

Troops
Mucolid

Mucolid

Mucolid

FA
Dimachaeron

15 Gargoyles

HS
Tyrannocyte, Venom Cannons

Tyrannocyte, Venom Cannons

Hyper Toxic Node

Hive Tyrant, Wings, Egrubs, 2 Devourers

Venomthrope

Venomthrope

Venomthrope

Toxicrene

I think that the Tyrant inside the Toxic Node Must take Toxic...

Ups, I forgot to wrote it, still the points are right.

 jy2 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
But that is a choice, if one would want to go full melee shrikes then they would have the same cost and same number of attacks.

The fact that they also have a better choice is a plus, but that doesn't give a spot to the raveners.

Personally, why one would want to "downgrade" his guns to scything talons is beyond me. The guns are the main advantage that shrikes have over raveners. If raveners had free guns, I'd give up the +1A in a heartbeat. Ok, I'll stop now.

Which is just one more way that they are worse than Shrikes, Shrikes can do both the Ravener load out and their own for the same price. In no way do the Raveners have an advantage WIH their extra attack since it's matchable by Shrikes for free, and as you said it's the worse option anyway

Ravagers should definitely be a "C" rating versus "D." They are not great, but they have some uses. Beast is really good and should be recognized as such.

Also, does the rating for pyrovores seem high to you guys? Currently, their ratings seem inflated compared to the other units in the tactica.

 Asmodas wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Just make sure you stress the fact that even if he isn't quite the beatstick he used to be, he still operates as the perfect synaptic linchpin of a ground based attack.

I got this down pat, no worries. I'm pretty much all ground force in Tyranids...no gargs, no harpies, no crones...though I may use the occasional Flyrant, Sky Slashers (rarely), or Shrikes.

Maybe you should do Sky slashers then. I think you're the first person I've heard of using them.

Agreed. I've never seen a sky slasher in person, and never felt the urge to proxy them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Iechine wrote:
Gargoyles: (by Iechine)

Good review. A few things that you didn't mention.
1) Assault Chaining. Because of their large bases and good speed they can really, really do complicated multi-assaults to kill things like riptides.
2) Overwatch eating. If you've got expensive stuff planning to assault, gargoyles can get into position and eat overwatch for the pricier stuff.
3) Enemy Mobility limitations. I've used 20 gargoyles to completely surround an Imperial Knight giving it no place to go for a turn. This is also awesome against Stunned fliers.
4) Board control. 20-30 gargoyles have a giant footprint. They can conga line all over the place contesting multiple objectives at once.

One last observation. I think in many ways gargoyles are the natural enemy of Riptides. If you get 20 gargoyles into a multi-assault with 3 riptides and keep them in syanpse, they can hang out there all game long neutralizing a giant portion of the enemy army. Throw a Tyrant, some raveners or a Carnifex into one flank or the other, and you've got a decent chance to sweeping advance kill them.

I've been using sky slashers ever since I made them to be a fluffy bodyguard for my Parasite of Mortrex.

I'll take them too, should hit all three tonight when I can sit down with my book.

tag8833 wrote:

One last observation. I think in many ways gargoyles are the natural enemy of Riptides. If you get 20 gargoyles into a multi-assault with 3 riptides and keep them in syanpse, they can hang out there all game long neutralizing a giant portion of the enemy army. Throw a Tyrant, some raveners or a Carnifex into one flank or the other, and you've got a decent chance to sweeping advance kill them.

Actually they have an easier time with stuff like fexes, since riptide are immune to blind and will always hit at 4+, but yes sweeping in a multi assault is one of the few ways to take out a riptide cost efficiently.

How are riptides immune to blind?

Spoletta wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

One last observation. I think in many ways gargoyles are the natural enemy of Riptides. If you get 20 gargoyles into a multi-assault with 3 riptides and keep them in syanpse, they can hang out there all game long neutralizing a giant portion of the enemy army. Throw a Tyrant, some raveners or a Carnifex into one flank or the other, and you've got a decent chance to sweeping advance kill them.

Actually they have an easier time with stuff like fexes, since riptide are immune to blind and will always hit at 4+, but yes sweeping in a multi assault is one of the few ways to take out a riptide cost efficiently.

Riptides are immune to blind? Since when?

Plus even a not blind riptide with 3 attacks hitting on 4's will take an entire game to get through 10 gargoyles.

Riptides are immuned to blind and night fighting affects due to their suit. Built in Blacksun Filters in almost every suit the Tau own. :(

Didn't realize it prevented blind as well. Good to know.

Saythings wrote:
Riptides are immuned to blind and night fighting affects due to their suit. Built in Blacksun Filters in almost every suit the Tau own. :(

Wow. I just asked my 2 most common Tau opponents. Both of them denied that it granted immunity to blind, but when I looked it up you are correct. I have played that rule wrong 100 times.

tag8833 wrote:

Saythings wrote:
Riptides are immuned to blind and night fighting affects due to their suit. Built in Blacksun Filters in almost every suit the Tau own. :(

Wow. I just asked my 2 most common Tau opponents. Both of them denied that it granted immunity to blind, but when I looked it up you are correct. I have played that rule wrong 100 times.

Being a Tyranid Player first, and a Space Marine player second, it helps to know what you're fighting against. Hard to build a list without knowing what counters it. When Tau was on top last edition, I wanted to run some Scout Bikers for their blind launcher. I learned the hard way that almost every tau model is immuned to blind. xD

tag8833 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

One last observation. I think in many ways gargoyles are the natural enemy of Riptides. If you get 20 gargoyles into a multi-assault with 3 riptides and keep them in syanpse, they can hang out there all game long neutralizing a giant portion of the enemy army. Throw a Tyrant, some raveners or a Carnifex into one flank or the other, and you've got a decent chance to sweeping advance kill them.

Actually they have an easier time with stuff like fexes, since riptide are immune to blind and will always hit at 4+, but yes sweeping in a multi assault is one of the few ways to take out a riptide cost efficiently.

Riptides are immune to blind? Since when?

Plus even a not blind riptide with 3 attacks hitting on 4's will take an entire game to get through 10 gargoyles.

They have Blacksun Filters, almost everything Tau does. As you said they Riptide still easy to tarpit, and getting anything Tau in CC is going to be a good thing for Tyranids, so it's not a big issue.

So I see most everyone taking Tyrannocyte's bare with no upgrade to Venoms/Barbs. If I'm going to be mostly taking them with Carnifex/Dima/maybe Zoan & Neuro brood should I use the Venom upgrade? I have a few lists that use 2-3 pods, so it could be a 50-75 point difference.

Noctem wrote:
So I see most everyone taking Tyrannocyte's bare with no upgrade to Venoms/Barbs. If I'm going to be mostly taking them with Carnifex/Dima/maybe Zoan & Neuro brood should I use the Venom upgrade? I have a few lists that use 2-3 pods, so it could be a 50-75 point difference.

Well, it kinda depends on your list. Is the Str 6 AP 4 with five blasts worth 25pts over fifteen Str 5 AP 5 shots at BS 2? Or would those points be better spent elsewhere, say a Venomthrope, or half of a Carnifex?

Noctem wrote:
So I see most everyone taking Tyrannocyte's bare with no upgrade to Venoms/Barbs. If I'm going to be mostly taking them with Carnifex/Dima/maybe Zoan & Neuro brood should I use the Venom upgrade? I have a few lists that use 2-3 pods, so it could be a 50-75 point difference.

So far I think so. VCs aren't scary to our MCs except for the Faileceptor. 25 points to turn a unit from "Useful against light infantry at 18" to useful against Infantry, and Vehicles at 36" is a viable upgrade, and the Tyrannocytes are tough. They don't die often, but they can't assault, so they make great objective campers, and the VC's let them contribute while they do that. It also complicates your opponent's vehicle movement which helps you flank them with flyrants.

Hi Folks

I have to admit, I really like the Shield of Baal e-book. Some cool/fun/interesting rules, fun fluff.

Now please can you poke holes, critique or just comment on what was originally going to be a fairly simple triple flyrant dual CAD list;
CAD:
Flyrant, Devs, Egrubs (Warlord - go go re-roll on strategic)
2x Rippers, DS
1x Lictor
1x Malanthrope

HFD*:
Flyrant, Devs, Egrubs
Flyrant, Devs, Egrubs
3x 1 Muculid Spore
3x 1 Lictor
2x Mawloc

Sporefield Formation
3x3 Spores
3x1 Mucos

All of this for 1500pts. I guess it could be light on gross total scoring bodies but so far that would be my only concern. Lots of options. Fun? Competitive? Also trying to make best use of the command benefits whilst still getting my re-roll for book traits.
*HFD = Hive Fleet Detachment

tag8833 wrote:

Noctem wrote:
So I see most everyone taking Tyrannocyte's bare with no upgrade to Venoms/Barbs. If I'm going to be mostly taking them with Carnifex/Dima/maybe Zoan & Neuro brood should I use the Venom upgrade? I have a few lists that use 2-3 pods, so it could be a 50-75 point difference.

So far I think so. VCs aren't scary to our MCs except for the Faileceptor. 25 points to turn a unit from "Useful against light infantry at 18" to useful against Infantry, and Vehicles at 36" is a viable upgrade, and the Tyrannocytes are tough. They don't die often, but they can't assault, so they make great objective campers, and the VC's let them contribute while they do that. It also complicates your opponent's vehicle movement which helps you flank them with flyrants.

I don't know, I think those 15 shots (5 hits) at S5 into a vehicles rear armour is pretty decent, two Cytes can kill a transport pretty easily.

I don't think there is a right and wrong answer here, both options are great and it depends on what you want for your build. More points left over for more bodies is never the wrong answer, but sometimes you can say a bunch of S6 blast spam might really be what I want. Neither option is leagues ahead of the other.

Which formation is best against GK PaladinStar?
LAN, Skyblight, or Other?

Verviedi wrote:
Which formation is best against GK PaladinStar?
LAN, Skyblight, or Other?

Depends on what spells they have. If they are walking across the table, LAN can deal with them easily. If they have GOI, you want to go for Skyblight.

Another, more off the wall option is Endless Swarm. Devourer Gants will gun them down through weight of fire, and don't really fear their attacks. Poison Hormagants can drown them in bodies and force piles of saves.

One final option. A new formation called "Skytyrant Swarm". A Hive Tyrant Swinging away with Reaper of Obliterax surrounded by 20+ ablative gargoyle wounds will make short work of the paladins. And like gants, Gargoyles don't care about Force weapons. Just be ware of Draigo and his psych-out grenades, and 3++. Make sure you Tryant doesn't make base on the Charge so that Draigo can't challenge him out. Eventually Draigo will kill the Tyrant if he gets force off.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jy2 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
I'll leave this here...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/390805653881?lpid=82

While it would make for a cool mucolid, it looks like it's probably only half the size of the real mcCoy.

I bit. Got me 5 of the models off of ebay. JY2 was right, they aren't tall enough. So I put them on a small flight stand. After all they can assault fliers, so theoretically they can fly. It isn't 100% accurate, but it is a pretty decent conversion that nobody is going to give me crap about.

Would you guys suggest running the Living Artillery Node and having the Exocrine (plus a synapse provider of course) in Tyrannocytes dropped on the enemy's head?

Journeyman351 wrote:
Would you guys suggest running the Living Artillery Node and having the Exocrine (plus a synapse provider of course) in Tyrannocytes dropped on the enemy's head?

Deep striking an Exocrine is ok. Not great, mainly because the Exocrine doesn't belong in assault, and has good range, and thus a chance to contribute on turn 1.

You definitely don't need to worry about tyrannocyting in a synapse provider. Flyrants can provide front court synapse. And if that isn't good enough you can take a couple Shrikes which can start on the board or deep strike in for free.

Just had an amazing battle against Geoff "InControl" and his tournament Tyranids. This was a rematch. The last game, he won when his barbed hierodule stepped on both of my Necron bargelords and he rolled a 6, thus removing both of them. I then failed both of the 4+ return-to-play saves as well.

This time, Geoff ran the new Hive Fleet Leviathan detachment + Primary detachment. His list:

Primary:

Swarmlord

Malanthrope

3x3 Deepstriking rippers

Barbed Hierodule

HFL:

Dakka Flyrant - Egrubs
Dakka Flyrant - Egrubs
Dakka Flyrant - Egrubs

Mucolid
Mucolid
Mucolid


It was another tense battle. I did manage to take out all 3 flyrants at the end of the game. However, Geoff also took out 6 out of my 7 AV13 vehicles, including all 3 of my bargelords, and 2 out of 3 flyers. Moreover, his barbed hierodule survived without so much as a scratch on him. I made 1 crucial mistake in the game, and that was I forget to take an objective at the end of a crucial turn.

Look out for the battle report, coming out soon from Frontline Gaming!

Journeyman351 wrote:
Would you guys suggest running the Living Artillery Node and having the Exocrine (plus a synapse provider of course) in Tyrannocytes dropped on the enemy's head?

NO!

Do so and your exocrine won't benefit from the warriors in the formation (he has to be within 12" of the warriors).

 Iechine wrote:

Gargoyles: (by Iechine)

Gargoyles are a highly mobile version of Termagants, occupying a fast attack slot. While they are often compared to their groundpounding brothers, they have many abilities that set them apart and make them a worthwhile choice in a Tyranid force.

1. Highly mobile. As jump infantry, Gargoyles flow over the battlefield 12" at a time, ignoring terrain all together. In addition, your broods are able to deep strike.

2. Cheap tarpit unit to the extreme. With the ability to exchange attacks for a poisoned (6+) attack that forces a Blind check if it hits, Gargoyles have the ability to get in and stay in with any opponent. For a little more than the cost of a Dakkafex you can have 30 fast moving wounds on the field.

3. IB: Hunt. Whereas Termagants tuck tail and run and Hormagaunts inflict wounds on each other, Gargoyles hit the deck and wait it out. Though not fearless, you're less likely to be pulling your hair out when IB checks dont go your way.

Thanks Iechine. Added!

 ductvader wrote:
I've been using sky slashers ever since I made them to be a fluffy bodyguard for my Parasite of Mortrex.

I'll take them too, should hit all three tonight when I can sit down with my book.

Ok, you've got them!

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Hey guys, guess what? Apparently we are famous outside this thread and DakkaDakka. Someone has been copying every review and throwing them up on the 4chan Tactica. Anyhow, if no one objects, I think I will take on Tyrant Guard and Spore Mines. We still need someone who can take on the remaining fliers and Forge World units however. I have very little experience with any of them.

Gotta check it out. I've been out all day and just got back.

You're on a roll, Hunger. Tyrant Guard and Spore Mines for you!

 ductvader wrote:
I'll take Exocrine and Swarmlord

You're on, ductvader!

tag8833 wrote:

Solidcrash wrote:
Can somebody do termagant? I am unsure which better - twinlink spingant or dakkgant..

I'll do Termagants. But I might not get to it until Monday.

Termies for taggy!

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Honestly I don't think it will hurt if two different people review the same unit- if you feel you have something else to add might as well post it.

Right.

If someone feels the need to write a review on a particular unit - even though that unit has already been reviewed - then go for it! I won't turn down someone's hard work.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

Here is the updated Tyranid Update assignment list.

There is also a link to it on p. 1 of the main tactica.

Or you can find it on p. 240. If you don't remember, then check out the title.

NOTE - I won't be updating this post. Instead, any updates will be done to the list on p. 240 so check there for the most recent review assignments.



TYRANID UPDATE LIST

Thanks guys. Here is a list of units to write up.

Also, if you want to make changes to your unit write-ups, just post the complete re-write on this thread or PM me and I will make the corrections/edits (more like copy and paste them ) onto p. 1 of the main tactica.


HQ

Hive Tyrant - jy2
Deathleaper
Old One Eye
Swarmlord - ductvader
Tervigon - Frozocrone
Tyranid Prime - Unyielding Hunger
Tyrant Guard - Unyielding Hunger


ELITES

Haruspexes - Strat_N8
Hive Guards
Lictors - jy2
Malanthropes - jifel
Maleceptors
Neurothropes
Pyrovores - Unyielding Hunger
Venomthropes - jifel
Zoanthropes


TROOPS

Broodlords
Genestealers
Hormagants - Spoletta
Mucolids
Ripper Swarms
Termagants - tag8833
Tyranid Warriors - Unyielding Hunger


FAST ATTACKS

Dimachaerons - luke1705
Gargoyles - Iechine
Harpies - Strat_N8
Hive Crones
Meocitic Spores
Raveners - Spoletta
Red Terror
Sky-slasher Swarms - ductvader
Spore Mines - Unyielding Hunger
Tyranid Shrikes - Unyielding Hunger


HEAVY SUPPORTS

Biovores - Amoras
Carnifexes (all, including Forgeworld) - Frozocone
Exocrines - ductvader
Mawlocs
Sporocysts
Toxicrenes
Trygons - jy2
Tyrannocytes
Tyrannofexes


LORDS OF WAR

Barbed Hierodule
Scythed Hierodule
Harridan
Hierophant Bio-titan


FORMATIONS

Rising Leviathan I
Broodlord's Hunting Pack
Deathleaper's Assassin Brood
Gargoyle Bio-bombs
Lictor Forest Brood
Manufactorum Genestealers

Rising Leviathan II
Endless Swarm
Incubator Node
Living Artillery Node
Skyblight Swarm
Synaptic Swarm

Rising Leviathan III
Bioblast Node
Living Tide
Subterranean Swarm
Tyrant Node
Wrecker Node

Shields of Baal
Skytyrant Swarm
Neural Node
Hypertoxic Node
Spore Field
Skytide
Hive Fleet Leviathan


BIOMORPHS/WARGEAR

Bio-artefacts - Sinful Hero


Let me know which you want to volunteer for and I will update this list. Or you could just post the review of the unit directly onto this thread and I will update the list and also the main tactica on p.1.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Bio-Artefacts of the Tyranids
Available to Hive Tyrants, Tervigons, Tyranid Primes, and Trygon Primes.


Also, any recommendations regarding formatting are welcome.

As are any other recommendations...

Added, and I changed to format just slightly to make it a little easier to read.

helluva game Jy2 <3 always a pleasure to battle yeah. We got to rematch before I head home for the new year btw!

iNcontroL wrote:
helluva game Jy2 <3 always a pleasure to battle yeah. We got to rematch before I head home for the new year btw!

The Frontline batreps with you and your Nids are the best

Noctem wrote:
So I see most everyone taking Tyrannocyte's bare with no upgrade to Venoms/Barbs. If I'm going to be mostly taking them with Carnifex/Dima/maybe Zoan & Neuro brood should I use the Venom upgrade? I have a few lists that use 2-3 pods, so it could be a 50-75 point difference.

I think it's too soon to say. A basic "meta" rule for Tyranids is "don't upgrade" so I think it will depend of what you see the most in your area. I see one down side to the upgrades being scattering onto your own units, and a Venom can wound a Carnifex 50/50 and that would be embarrassing (don't worry too much, you'll most likely save ) I think my instinct is to spend the points on something else though.

pinecone77 wrote:

Noctem wrote:
So I see most everyone taking Tyrannocyte's bare with no upgrade to Venoms/Barbs. If I'm going to be mostly taking them with Carnifex/Dima/maybe Zoan & Neuro brood should I use the Venom upgrade? I have a few lists that use 2-3 pods, so it could be a 50-75 point difference.

I think it's too soon to say. A basic "meta" rule for Tyranids is "don't upgrade" so I think it will depend of what you see the most in your area. I see one down side to the upgrades being scattering onto your own units, and a Venom can wound a Carnifex 50/50 and that would be embarrassing (don't worry too much, you'll most likely save ) I think my instinct is to spend the points on something else though.

Depends on your list. I want to drop 2x20 termaguants so i'am not going to use scattering barbed strangles. Without those termagaunts I would go for 1 barbed strangler tyrannocyte for the "pinning" effect. I'am not going to pick vennom cannons because shooting takes to long ( I hate thunderfire cannons..takes forever) with not much damage output.

Where do barbed Heirodules fit into the new, new Nids then? do they have a place?

 jy2 wrote:
Just had an amazing battle against Geoff "InControl" and his tournament Tyranids. This was a rematch. The last game, he won when his barbed hierodule stepped on both of my Necron bargelords and he rolled a 6, thus removing both of them. I then failed both of the 4+ return-to-play saves as well.

This time, Geoff ran the new Hive Fleet Leviathan detachment + Primary detachment. His list:

Primary:

Swarmlord

Malanthrope

3x3 Deepstriking rippers

Barbed Hierodule

HFL:

Dakka Flyrant - Egrubs
Dakka Flyrant - Egrubs
Dakka Flyrant - Egrubs

Mucolid
Mucolid
Mucolid

assuming 3 flyrants, SL + malanthrope to buff heirduyle? first legit useful deployment of swarmy i've seen since the new codex dropped.

it's a strange new world we're living in.