Yorkskargrim wrote:
HQ Choices
Hive Tyrant: -5 PPM; +1BS; Loses BRB powers; lost 2+ armor save option; loses starting Lashwhip/Bonesword (this upgrade now costs 20 points I think)
SwarmLord: +5 PPM; +1BS; +1 Mastery Level -1 psychic power; Loses BRB Powers; no longer forces rerolls of successful ++ saves
Tervigon: +35 PPM; +1 I; -2 Powers; Loses BRB Powers; no longer shares AG/TS; kills larger area of gaunts; spawns gaunts no longer move or charge
Tyranid Prime: +45 PPM

Deathleaper: now HQ from Elites; -10 PPM; gain Infiltrate; Fleshhooks lose Rending
Old One Eye: now HQ from HS; -40 PPM; +1I

Elite Choices
Hive Guard: +5 PPM; -1BS
Lictor: -15 PPM; gain Infiltrate
Pyrovore: -5 PPM; +1W, I, A; No more Spores
Venomthrope: -10 PPM; Gains Shroud instead of default 5+c save; No more Spores
Zoanthrope: -10 PPM; Mastery Level 2; Loses BRB powers; No more Spores; Now Brotherhood of Psykers (not sure if this is a gain or loss, honestly; makes the whole unit very "all or nothing")

Troop Choices
Tyranid Warriors: +/- 0 PPM; No more Spores
Genestealers: +/- 0 PPM; No more Spores
--Broodlord: +/- 0 PPM; Single default power (positive or negative is up for debate I suppose)
Termagants: -1 PPM; can mix weapon types within a unit; No more Spores; cost of TS/AG increased
Hormagaunts: -1 PPM; No more Spores; STs no longer reroll 1s/misses; cost of TS/AG increased
Ripper Swarms: +3 PPM; No longer guaranteed self destruct out of Synapse

Fast Attack
Shrikes: +/- 0 PPM
Harpy: -25 PPM; +1W, A
Gargoyles: +/- 0 PPM
Sky Slasher Swarms: +3 PPM
Raveners: +/- 0 PPM; -1A base, but now get +1A from 2 sets of CCWs STs no longer reroll 1s/misses
Spore Mine Clusters: -5 PPM

Heavy Support
Carnifex: -40 PPM, +1I; -1A; No more Spores
Biovore: -5 PPM; +1W, I, A
Trygon: -10 PPM; -1A base, but now get +1A from 2 sets of CCWs; STs no longer reroll 1s/misses
Trygon Prime: -10 PPM; -1A base, but now get +1A from 2 sets of CCWs; STs no longer reroll 1s/misses
Mawloc: -30 PPM; better From Below rule
Tyranofex: -75! PPM; +1I

Biomorphs
-General-
Adrenal Glands: Grants Fleet along with Furious Charge
Toxin Sacs: No changes
Regeneration: Regain a wound on a 4+ instead of 6(I believe?)

-Melee-
Scything Talons: Grants extra attack with another CC biomorph; AP6 (lolz); No longer reroll 1s/misses
Rending Claws: Grants extra attack with another CC biomorph; AP5
Crushing Claws: Grants extra attack with another CC biomorph; No longer forces I1 for MCs; S+1; Armorbane; AP2 for non MCs; Lost D3 bonus attacks

-Ranged-
Devourer: No longer causes -1 to Ld


edit 1: Updated Swarmlord to +1ML, -1 power known
edit 2: Updated for lack of Spores
edit 3: Points adjustments and effects of some biomorphs.

So after a look over the Codex. Nids are still fail.
Broodlord is still BS 0 so he can still roll Haemorrhage on the Biomancy table & end up with an useless power
Why are Warriors still 40 points Ogryns are T5 & there not holding the Ld of the army together. Warriors should have been 16 points but only had 2 wounds
Ripper Swarms are how much now? They have Eternal Warrior right. No ... so I'm just better of with 3 Termagants for the same cost & the Termagants have guns too
Scything Talons don't re-roll because Melee weapons Really Needed Nerf

PrinceOfMadness wrote:
For epic trolling, run this list against your opponent:

HQ:
Tervigon
Tervigon

Elite:
Venomthrope
Venomthrope
Venomthrope

Troop:
Termagant x 30
Termagant x 30
Termagant x 30
Termagant x 30
Termagant x 30
Termagant x 30

Fast Attack:
Gargoyle x 30
Gargoyle x 30
Gargoyle x 30

Total - 1785

So you still end up with 65 points to play around with in an 1850 game. Each of your turns is going to take 2 hours+, but the look on your opponent's face when you drop 275 models on the table (with the potential to spawn more) will be priceless.

 jy2 wrote:
An excellent battle between Geoff's (InControl's) Tyranids and Spam Adam's Triptide Tau. Spam Adam is a regular opponent of mine and his Triptide Tau is a tough, tough army to play against.

Enjoy!

 Gloomfang wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Units embarked in buildings automatically pass leadership tests.

No they don't. They gain Fearless. IB is a test that uses leadership, not a Morale check. The rules for IB say when you have to check and when you don't. Being embarked in a fortification doesn't make you exempt (per IB rules). If you are saying that auto pass IB then psykers autopass PotW when embarked as well.

So if you roll a 1-3 for IB with a IB:Lurk unit then they break per IB, not per failing a morale check. They also have to move the required distance as IB says they have to make a Fall Back move just as if they had failed a morale check.

If someone can show me the rules around this I would love to see them so I can reference them if they come up again.

 Gloomfang wrote:

Razerous wrote:

Endless Swarm - fun, meaty but not effective. You spend a lot of points on models that don't do much stock and can't do much throughout the game.

Incubator nodes - I think non-troop tervigons are meh and the 30 gaunt tax adds too many points to the whole thing.

Reread the section on making tervigons troops. It says 30 termigaunts in your army, not in your detachment or formation. So you can take 30 termigaunts in any formation or detachment and they make any one tervigon a troops choice.

Yes that does mean you can play Endless Swarm with 3 broods of 30 termigaunts and take 3 Troop tervigons in your primary detachment Troop FoC. I think some figured out you can take 6 troop tervigons with 2 Endlessswarms in a 2K list.

Sandokann wrote:
There is no way you can lose a game vs such a bad list 3 knights mean that you can ignore half of his army the first 3 turns, focus on the rest, then concentrate in 1 knight each turn. To be honest they are far from point efficient, thought they got a nice model and every1 that had read Mechanicum will die to use his own Equitus Bellum.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
I continuosly use the rupture cannon...alongside swarmy for preferred enemy...you don't have a much better tank busting gun...but don't hide him...keep pushing forward and use cluster spines and a template when you get danger close.

I cant help but think that taking a Swarmlord for this purpose (or any purpose at all) is a colossal waste of points.... over 100 points more than a Hive Tyrant for ap 2 swords instead of ap 3, one more crappy psychic power, and the POSSIBILITY to RE-ROLL one of your Rupture Cannon MISSED shots?... points efficiency wise you would be better off just spending another 100 or so and getting another entire Tyrannofex for 2 more Rupture Cannon shots guaranteed every turn, a thorax swarm, and 6 more S6 T6 +2 wounds to boot.

Wakshaani wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
Judging by the picture they've gone for, on the announcement post, I'm expecting to see a Tyrant, Tyrant ?Guard formation and a Venomthrope formation of sorts.

Oh man, that right there would be a HUGE boon for walking tyrants if they did that. Buy a Hive Tyrant without wings, give him three Tyrant Guard, and you could add a Venomthrope to the squad for 50 pts. A Venomthrope that can't be sniped out by Tau missiles or Wave Serpent waves? *instant* credibility, right then and there.

 xttz wrote:
Harridans are by far the best of the Nid Apoc units. S10 vector strikes followed up by lots of S10 firepower can wreck virtually anything, and many D-weapons will be unable to snapshot at it until it's grounded.

The Harridan's main vulnerability is that they can still be grounded by lasguns, but that's more of a BRB issue than the unit itself.

barnowl wrote:

The same folks that think a Hausperex is a "specialist" for cracking knights.....

SBG wrote:
I honestly think h̶e̶'̶s̶ they're trolling at this point.

 SHUPPET wrote:
I have to agree with tag that the word flexibility is being used wrong here. I'm not sure however that I agree that Horms are better than Rippers, I think jy2 is right that both have their merits, I think Horms are SLIGHTLY better overall, but hey they cost SLIGHTLY more so it's dependant on what you can spare. Same with Terms really, rippers are just SLIGHTLY better for 5 more points a squad. I do say I rarely find myself with 20 points to blow on turning terms into Horms but often can spare 10 for rippers. But i dont think any of them are the wrong choice and all suit different players.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Zande4 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
I have to agree with tag that the word flexibility is being used wrong here. I'm not sure however that I agree that Horms are better than Rippers, I think jy2 is right that both have their merits, I think Horms are SLIGHTLY better overall, but hey they cost SLIGHTLY more so it's dependant on what you can spare. Same with Terms really, rippers are just SLIGHTLY better for 5 more points a squad. I do say I rarely find myself with 20 points to blow on turning terms into Horms but often can spare 10 for rippers. But i dont think any of them are the wrong choice and all suit different players.

Hormagaunts are hands down the most overrated unit from the Tyranid codex in this thread.

Care to elaborate? What makes you think they're overrated?

 SHUPPET wrote:
Why the hell would anyone take hormagants rippers or terms if troop choice already filled. You need 2 minimum size squads of our crappy troops, there is so many good units in the dex, the real debate on troops is which is the lesser evil

tag8833 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
You would regret this strategy very much if you played pure maelstrom. If your opponent doesn't cooperate, You are essentially giving your opponent 1 or 2 objectives in their deployment zone, and then giving them the ability to control the middle of the board and all of the objectives they place there. Basically you are giving them the chance to easily score 2/3 of all objectives, while you only get to score 1/3 of them, and since the objectives that need to be scored are random, this problem is magnified.

You do realize that you adjust your objectives depending on what type of army you play against, right? If I go up against a gunline-type army with low mobility, then I place the objectives near the center (or how you would normally do it) and then dare to move towards the objectives where my army will be advancing. If I go up against elitist or deathstar armies, then I spread out the objectives as those types of armies generally have problem moving around due to having fewer units.

You spread them out, but not so far that you can't get to them. Against a deathstar you are giving up one objective a turn. You can't stop them, maybe slow them down with a wall of Gants or gargoyles. You've got to outscore them, that means having multiple units capable of scoring multiple objectives every turn in case those cards come up. Hormagants can do that every single turn. Rippers can only do that on the turn they come in. Also Hormagants are great at stealing objectives from deathstars because most deathstars aren't OS.

 jy2 wrote:
Now here's the difference when implementing hormagant troops compared to ripper troops. Place the objectives far and your ground-based troops won't be able to reach them. With ground-based troops, you are forced to centralize the objectives and that becomes problematic when going up against armies who can control the board better than our bugs (imperial knights, daemons, orks, wraithwing necrons, deathstars, etc.). However, ripper troops have no problem. It allows you to adjust your playstyle on the fly against both types of armies because no matter where you place the objectives, you can still reach it and without sacrificing any of your offense. That is what I call tactical flexibility.

Hormagants average a 13.25" move. They have a deployment range that includes 1/4 of the board. They can basically get anywhere on the board in 2 turns except for deep in the opponent's deployment zone. Rippers have a similar range of mobility on turn 2 (if they happen to come in). You can drop them deep in the opponents deployment zone if you want, but generally they aren't going to accomplish much doing that. Once rippers are on the board, they average a 9.5" move (less than the minimum distance between 2 objectives). Significantly less, and they move that far much less reliably because they lack fleet. So by turn 3, Hormagants have been able to cover more ground than rippers, and that is without using any charge shenanigan. So if your goal is to reach distant tactical objectives, Hormagants are better able to accomplish it than rippers.

If you goal is to camp a single objective. Rippers are your better choice because you can keep them out of LOS easier, and they don't need babysitting as bad. That is why Rippers are all stars in Eternal war, and other low scoring formats.

I think of Hormagants as slightly inferior gargoyles. 13.25" move vs 15.5" move. +1 attack, OS, -1 PPM, but no blind, HOW or shooting. If gargoyles could fill your troop requirement it would be all gargoyles all of the time. My question to you is, would you take rippers over gargoyles in Maelstrom?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SHUPPET wrote:
I'm just curious what people think is the best 4 Flyrant list. Like, aside from the Flyrants, what is the best thing you would include with the limited amount of remaining points? I've seen some with Living Artillery, others just pumping the remaining points in Dakkafexes, I've seen something that looked like a mish mash of everything including units from both the above 2 lists, Gargoyles, and Mawlocs, maybe it was for balanced coverage. Just wondering what people think is the best use of the points after the Flyrants and WHY.

If you are doubling down so much on air power, you probably should look at Crones with extra points of which there won't be many. 4 Flyrants w/ 4 DS Rippers is 1140 points.

tag8833 wrote:
I don't think TWC have been terribly successful, but there are two players I see who run them regularly.

tag8833 wrote:

 Zande4 wrote:


@tag8833 I feel the main problem here when comparing you to jy2 is opponent sample size. Judging by your responses you appear to play a much smaller amount of opponents and you seem to be the dominant one out of your group which is skewing your success with certain units. Honestly if you're beating your opponents with fluffy list then you could probably beat them with almost any unit. jy2's sample size on the other hand is various large tournaments, the fine people at Frontline Gaming and many other areas.

You kinda lost me with this one:

tag8833 wrote:
I don't think TWC have been terribly successful, but there are two players I see who run them regularly.

I'm sure that is true. It frustrates me that I only have a handful of competitive opponents, and I have been working hard to uplift others so that can compete with me on a competitive level. I'm the local TO, which makes me somewhat dominant, but there are at least 3-4 players that are at least as good as me, and can regularly beat me, and another 6 or so that are slightly less competitive, and then another 10-12 that are not competitive at all. There are another 12 who are infrequent opponents some of which are competitive, and I've played another 30-40 people that I've only every played once. For instance, people in an RTT.

That being said, I only ever play Tyranids, unless I army swap with someone to show them how to beat me. I am prolific. I play 3-4 games a week. Playing less competitive players lets me audition other units and builds that allows me a better understanding of the Tyranid codex. Tyranids are JY2's Secondary army (necrons), and he plays a pretty specific build without as much experimentation, but he has been playing quite a bit longer then me against a higher level of competition which is why I generally deffer to him in cases where I disagree. This is one case where I'm not willing to defer, because 75% of my games are Maelstrom, and I've played both Hormagants and rippers so many times in 7th that I can't even count. Meanwhile, he hasn't logged many maelstrom games, and the games he has logged have probably been against opponents that haven't had time to log enough maelstrom games to master the missions. He also hasn't used Hormagants in so long that he forgot about the one rule that makes them a superior unit (Bounding leap). In short, I'm confident that my experience in this one specific case exceeds his.

I also think I've been pretty careful to avoid broad absolutes. I add qualifiers like "In Maelstrom", and "Against Thunderwolf Calvary" which often get stripped off in replies, which is frustrating to me, because all I've ever claimed is that Hormagants are better than rippers in Maelstrom, and it keeps getting conflated with a claim that Hormagants are better in all mission types which is not what I am saying.

I would like nothing more than to be proved wrong. It is only by locating and understanding mistakes that I can become a better player. That is why I'm here. Without sufficient diversity or competitiveness of meta, I've got to reach outside for an understanding of how to compete against top tier opponents. I'm not shy about admitting when I was wrong, nor do I have a problem experimenting with lists or strategies that I haven't tried.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Instinctive fire- each gun fires at the closest enemy unit independently. So measure from each barrel basically. I foresee a YMDC about how. MCs can only fire two weapons...

 SHUPPET wrote:
Which brings me to the last point - the Tyrannocyte. You are dead wrong on this. It wouldn't matter if SM got the exact same model for a 1/4 of the price - A. It doesn't make our one any worse and B. It's about more than the model itself. We have units that benefit from Drop Pods FAR greater than SM do. Sure, they have a couple that love, but we are THE close range shooting army. Dakkafexes, TyrNnofexes, Pyrovores, we have the tools to put this to greater use and thus the added cost is actually justified IMO. This model is excellent, and because of it, Tyranids are now in the best shape they've been in for 3 editions now as far as internal balance goes. Look past the SM comparisons because that isn't even relevant unless they have an equivalent for each unit we have.

 Iechine wrote:
I like to think of the Tyrannocite as an expensive biomorph that gives you deepstrike and 5 deathspitters...would I pay 75 pts for that upgrade? Yep.

Turn 2 typically has my 3 Tyrants in the air being dicks to everything on the ground mid field. So nows when I want to keep allowing that to happen, deepstriking MC(s) are a great distraction.

Still havent decided on what MC to send in though.

Assuming FW is not allowed and in a competitive setting:

Dakkafex Classic devourers mulch and can be useful against certain targets, and no one likes a charge from one. They are squishy. One fex alone without cover just cant take the front and center firepower many armies can throw out.
Tyrannofex Tough as nails and his acid spray would reach whatever you needed to after deep striking. He sucks at combat and has low damage output against a lot of common builds.
Exocrine One of the main reasons I never use this guy is his 24" range. Now that he can arrive and spit out AP2, he can be really helpful in removing a variety of targets your Flyrants have already softened up See Carnifex, plus he sucks at combat
Toxicrene The potential for instant death on a variety of targets is promising. He's also a wide model that can use the Tyrannocite for cover when he comes in, ensuring the 3+ cover save at least. He assault potential is promising, wounding anything on a 2+ with AP2 and potential for ID cant be overlooked. He's even squishier than most of our MC's. Some units he just has no business assaulting, and without his cover save his survival looks grim.
Haruspex It's a Haruspex.



A tourney list for consideration:

1850
Flyrant w/Devs and electro
Flyrant w/Devs and electro
Flyrant w/Devs and electro

Bastion w/coms
Venomthrope
Ripper w/DS
Ripper w/DS
Ripper w/DS

Exocrine w/Tyrannocite and Venom Cannons
Exocrine w/Tyrannocite and Venom Cannons
Mawloc
Mawloc

With points to spare...Its an obvious beta strike army. Perhaps lose a Mawloc for a large gargoyle brood for flexibility?

 Sinful Hero wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
On the debate regarding Tyrannocytes, Mucolids, and Sporocysts --

Going by pictures at this point, it appears as if the Mucolid forms the center of a Tyrranocyte. This would mean that the ONLY way to get mucolids is to build the sporocysts instead of the tyrannocytes, which are by far the better MC in the kit.

Several ways to mitigate this-
You can always magnetize them(this doesn't solve the problem if you want to run Tyrannocytes AND Mucolids though).
Greenstuff a bottom on the Tyrannocyte. Heck you could model it like a Sporocyst(flat on the ground) with tentacles coming out the sides, or use spare Scything talons for "legs".
Mold tentacles for the Mucolid top.
Do nothing and just build the Sporocyst. Tell your opponents it's a Tyrannocyte.

I plan to buy Mucolids from recasters who will sell it to me at a reasonable price without having to buy a $70 kit for a 15 point model.

You could also buy the Forgeworld Meiotic Spores.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Anyone have a link to the pictures or stats of the Nope? Prev pictures are down and I missed them

luke1705 wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
How did OrdoSean handle the Ignore cover from Wave Serpents? I think Im missing something here.....

There are a lot of questions about his success with that list haha. I hope he enlightens us because my predominant theory is that GW rigged the tournament to sell more models with their shield of Baal campaign (just kidding Sean, we're all super proud of you!)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

shogun wrote:

How about this armylist:

Winged hive, devourers, thorax
Winged hive, devourers, thorax

20 guants
20 guants

1x Mucolite
1x Mucolite
1x Mucolite
1x Mucolite

3 zoanthropes + neurothrope upgrade
3 zoanthropes + neurothrope upgrade
1 venomthrope

tyrannocite
tyrannocite
tyrannocite
tyrannocite
tyrannocite

Mawloc
Mawloc

Bastion + comm

1850 points

Its all made for second turn "in your face" dropping. Its a lot to handle for the enemy because those tyrannocites start to drift towards objectives and even when most of the army gets destroyed its still hard to beat it.

I might condense the Zoans into a single squad since you can now have 6 of them and that will allow you to cast Warp Lance more efficiently (although you'll be twice as sad if it gets denied)

The biggest weakness of this type of list is that it is technically unbound. Not that it's an illegal army for a tournament - GW has now allowed us to construct a list with no objective: secured units. Can you deal with drop pod marines owning every objective and having...I believe most tournament lists had like 18 OS units, either as drop pods or power armor marines. I'd also question why you need 5 Tyrannocytes. I see you'll be putting 2 groups of zoans in two of them, I suppose the gant squads in the other two, and the last one gets....a Venomthrope? I mean, yes it's all in your opponent's face but I don't see a whole lot of firepower in this list (shooting or close combat). What do you expect to happen when you get there? (Honest question that I'd like you to answe, to yourself if nothing else)

Eldercaveman wrote:
One unit I haven't seen mentioned in all these new release hype and how it has possibly improved them is Ravenors?

Does mass reserve, turn 2 M.T.O help them? I can see a couple of units of these things arriving at the same time as a couple of pods of killy things (Fexes, Dimas etc) with Mawlocs popping up as well? What do you guys think?

Maybe something like this

Flyrant
Flyrant

Lictor
Lictor
Malonthrope

DS Rippers
DS Rippers
Genestealers
Genestealers
Genestealers

3 xRavenors
3 x Ravenors
Dimachaeron (in a Pod)

Mawloc
Mawloc


Bastion, comms relay, void shield (had 25 points to spare)

With upgrades that comes to 1850 points