The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)

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**luke1705**

Spoletta wrote:
luke1705 wrote:

I definitely agree that Raveners are under-appreciated. They're not going to win tournaments, no, but talk to wraiths. You want to waste your strength 8 on my 3+ save? Be my guest - they're not as expensive as your missile launcher platform, I promise. You know, unless you're IG. You'll always be screening them with Gargoyles (or should be, anyhow) and if they kill your Malanthrope in 1-2 turns....well...you're going to have a tough game on your hands anyhow. My list for them goes with a wave 2 arrival of....well....my entire army. They will not be high on your opponent's target priority list and they will do work with those claws. I probably would give them a solid C

And C is what i gave them indeed, at least if shrikes were not there. Why what you said wouldn't work with shrikes? Except that they are a synapse source for said gargoiles?

My Flyrants are enough synapse for the gargoyles and its cheaper to get Raveners with fleet. That's all I give them - rending claws and call it a day. I'm not saying that Shrikes don't have their benefits - they absolutely do - but I think Raveners are closer to shrikes than we give them credit for. If you call shrikes a C, Raveners would be (to me) a C - at worst

**jy2**

ductvader wrote:
I will say that the Ravener isn't not given as much credit as it should for purpose alone.

A Ravener is to a Shrike as a Hormagaunt is to a Termagant.

Shrikes should be shooting and can assault when need be...but Raveners should be moving forward always. This also means that they're even faster as they spend every turn running and are never sidetracked by shooting.

I agree. The ravener and the shrike has somewhat different purposes, like hormagants and termagants. Shrikes serve somewhat as support units as well. Raveners are for pure offense. They are much faster than shrikes because they have no shooting (don't bother upgrading them with guns), are Fleet and ignore terrain due to being beasts. They are also slightly better offensively with more attacks and higher Initiative, thus making them better area denial units.

As for being a glass cannon, in my experience, they can actually be quite durable, especially if you take them in slightly larger units. That is because you can daisy-chain them to within venomthrope/malanthrope range to benefit from their Shrouded bubble. Now you can also do the same with shrikes. However, by doing so, you will take away some of their shooting as part of the unit will be out of range to shoot.

Sinful Hero wrote:
I like the Amber/Red/Green style myself Frozocone, but it's probably not necessary.

I reviewed the Bio-Artefacts on up the page if anyone's interested.

Ok, thanks. I will add it to the main tactica later today. Got a full day of gaming coming up so won't be doing any updating until tonight.

**Spoletta**

jy2 wrote:
ductvader wrote:
I will say that the Ravener isn't not given as much credit as it should for purpose alone.

A Ravener is to a Shrike as a Hormagaunt is to a Termagant.

Shrikes should be shooting and can assault when need be...but Raveners should be moving forward always. This also means that they're even faster as they spend every turn running and are never sidetracked by shooting.

I agree. The ravener and the shrike has somewhat different purposes, like hormagants and termagants. Shrikes serve somewhat as support units as well. Raveners are for pure offense. They are much faster than shrikes because they have no shooting (don't bother upgrading them with guns), are Fleet and ignore terrain due to being beasts. They are also slightly better offensively with more attacks and higher Initiative, thus making them better area denial units.

As for being a glass cannon, in my experience, they can actually be quite durable, especially if you take them in slightly larger units. That is because you can daisy-chain them to within venomthrope/malanthrope range to benefit from their Shrouded bubble. Now you can also do the same with shrikes. However, by doing so, you will take away some of their shooting as part of the unit will be out of range to shoot.

They have the same cost and the same number of attacks, but it's okay let's stop debating this. After all i do own and play raveners.

Also, i have edited the guide with a Red Terror section.

**trindaros**

I really like the hypertoxic node, even though it has an overkill of venomthropes. It's also nice for cheap loadout for a meleerant (if you should want one)

**jy2**

tag8833 wrote:
Good write-ups on Bio-artefacts and Tervigons.

I would swap the final grading on the Trygon and Trygon Prime, but generally agree with you there. A little insight to my thinking. The Trygon Prime is like a Tervigon that is way better at shooting and assault, but doesn't poop out gants. The Trygon is closer to a Hauspex that is better in assault and deep striking.

I will write a "View from the Maelstrom" on Raveners. Even in eternal war games, Ravener lists are a hard counter to many armies.

Thanks tag!

My view of the TPrime is that he is a more expensive trygon but will die just as easily. Plus, he is a higher priority target than the trygon just because he is a "prime". Save your money on the prime and get a trygon + termagants/hormagants/ripper swarm/biovore/Fighter Ace upgrade/3 mucolids/1 additional shrike/etc. instead if you really want the offensive capabilities of the trygon.

Spoletta wrote:
jy2 wrote:
ductvader wrote:
I will say that the Ravener isn't not given as much credit as it should for purpose alone.

A Ravener is to a Shrike as a Hormagaunt is to a Termagant.

Shrikes should be shooting and can assault when need be...but Raveners should be moving forward always. This also means that they're even faster as they spend every turn running and are never sidetracked by shooting.

I agree. The ravener and the shrike has somewhat different purposes, like hormagants and termagants. Shrikes serve somewhat as support units as well. Raveners are for pure offense. They are much faster than shrikes because they have no shooting (don't bother upgrading them with guns), are Fleet and ignore terrain due to being beasts. They are also slightly better offensively with more attacks and higher Initiative, thus making them better area denial units.

As for being a glass cannon, in my experience, they can actually be quite durable, especially if you take them in slightly larger units. That is because you can daisy-chain them to within venomthrope/malanthrope range to benefit from their Shrouded bubble. Now you can also do the same with shrikes. However, by doing so, you will take away some of their shooting as part of the unit will be out of range to shoot.

They have the same cost and the same number of attacks, but it's okay let's stop debating this. After all i do own and play raveners.

Also, i have edited the guide with a Red Terror section.

Cool, thanks.

With regards to Attacks, raveners have 2 cc weapons so actually have +1 attack. With shrikes, you should keep the gun as it is a better option, so they only have 3 attacks.

**Timeshadow**

NamelessBard wrote:
Timeshadow wrote:
So how about this for a fun/competitive list

CAD
Flyrant Wings,E-Grubs,2xTL Dev,Ace,Hive Commander
Flyrant Wings,E-Grubs,2xTL Dev, Ace

Tervigon E-Grubs,Claws
Termagaunts 30 (10 Dev)
Termagaunts 15 (8 Dev)

Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope

Tyrannocyte

Hypertoxic Node
Flyrant as abv + Toxin sacks
Venomthrope
Venomthrope
Venomthrope
Toxicrine

1847pts

Lots of normal Flyrant Ace Dakka with a good Warp charge pool. The 3 Venoms shroud most of the force with the Toxi coming in the pod. I teally like to use the HC to Outflank the Tervi and it's resilence copled with it's ability to make it's own bubble wrap has won me many games and its also another psychic

Do you mean to have a toxicreine in there?

I'm fairly sure you can only have one Ace.

Tervigon or Toxicrine in a pod? You can choose at the start of the game.

Tervigon or 30 gaunts outflank?

I think you have way too many zoanthropes.

If you take off 2 Aces (there is three, right?), 2 zoanthropes and those extra gaunts thats 252 points. You can do a lot with those points.

Carnifex, tyrannofex, another Tyrannocyte, Dima.

I dont know of any restriction on Fighter ace but if there is then yah that's a big change. I fixed the list made some typos for units. I like a big WC Pool for both using psychic powers and denying opps with WC my theory is go big or go home. I like to pod Toxi and HC outflank the Tervi.

**Spoletta**

But that is a choice, if one would want to go full melee shrikes then they would have the same cost and same number of attacks.

The fact that they also have a better choice is a plus, but that doesn't give a spot to the raveners.

**jy2**

Spoletta wrote:
But that is a choice, if one would want to go full melee shrikes then they would have the same cost and same number of attacks.

The fact that they also have a better choice is a plus, but that doesn't give a spot to the raveners.

Personally, why one would want to "downgrade" his guns to scything talons is beyond me. The guns are the main advantage that shrikes have over raveners. If raveners had free guns, I'd give up the +1A in a heartbeat. Ok, I'll stop now.

**tag8833**

Spoletta wrote:
luke1705 wrote:

I definitely agree that Raveners are under-appreciated. They're not going to win tournaments, no, but talk to wraiths. You want to waste your strength 8 on my 3+ save? Be my guest - they're not as expensive as your missile launcher platform, I promise. You know, unless you're IG. You'll always be screening them with Gargoyles (or should be, anyhow) and if they kill your Malanthrope in 1-2 turns....well...you're going to have a tough game on your hands anyhow. My list for them goes with a wave 2 arrival of....well....my entire army. They will not be high on your opponent's target priority list and they will do work with those claws. I probably would give them a solid C

And C is what i gave them indeed, at least if shrikes were not there. Why what you said wouldn't work with shrikes? Except that they are a synapse source for said gargoiles?

Fleet is what makes all of the difference. Raveners Have it for free. Shrikes do not. So Raveners are either cheaper or more reliable than Shrikes. I don't think they are better than Shrike, but they are nearly as good.

Raveners and Shrikes are two units whose viability in competitive situation was ended by Imperial Knights and Super Heavies. If I was garanteed to only run into a single Imperial Knight at a Tournament, I would run Shrikes and Raveners. It would be an unbalanced list, but no more unbalanced than flyrant spam.

**Unyielding Hunger**

Hey guys, guess what? Apparently we are famous outside this thread and DakkaDakka. Someone has been copying every review and throwing them up on the 4chan Tactica. Anyhow, if no one objects, I think I will take on Tyrant Guard and Spore Mines. We still need someone who can take on the remaining fliers and Forge World units however. I have very little experience with any of them.

**Solidcrash**

I think raveners suit in very large battle field and shriek suit in normal / small battle field.

Because raveners have include deep strike and able to attack heavy weapon team enemy ( lascannon or worse )

And in apocalypse, Raveners are the Basilisks nightmare!

**pinecone77**

jy2 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
But that is a choice, if one would want to go full melee shrikes then they would have the same cost and same number of attacks.

The fact that they also have a better choice is a plus, but that doesn't give a spot to the raveners.

Personally, why one would want to "downgrade" his guns to scything talons is beyond me. The guns are the main advantage that shrikes have over raveners. If raveners had free guns, I'd give up the +1A in a heartbeat. Ok, I'll stop now.

Well, if I go to the trouble to toss in Flesh Hooks, I feel a lot safer losing the Devourer(s) They still have the equivalent of twin pistols, and Flesh Hooks is a CC mod, so why not go "all in".

Automatically Appended Next Post:

trindaros wrote:
I really like the hypertoxic node, even though it has an overkill of venomthropes. It's also nice for cheap loadout for a meleerant (if you should want one)

I am feeling kind of warm towards it myself.

Heck, I consider Venos a "must take", and now they do not take a precious Elite slot from me.

**Frozocrone**

Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Hey guys, guess what? Apparently we are famous outside this thread and DakkaDakka. Someone has been copying every review and throwing them up on the 4chan Tactica. Anyhow, if no one objects, I think I will take on Tyrant Guard and Spore Mines. We still need someone who can take on the remaining fliers and Forge World units however. I have very little experience with any of them.

This is when I regret using the color coding scheme, my Carnifex entry looks like a wall of text on there

Still, it's awesome that we're famous and helping Tyranid players outside of Dakka.

**Zach**

Gargoyles? I can do Gargoyles. if no one called it before me.

**Unyielding Hunger**

Iechine wrote:
Gargoyles? I can do Gargoyles. if no one called it before me.

Nope, your good. Think you can do the Harpy and Crone as well? Lech, your one of the only people I can think of that has run Skyblight recently in your Batreps.

ductvader wrote:
Did someone call Warriors and Prime?

I am all over that.

Sorry bud, I beat you to it.

**ductvader**

Did someone call Warriors and Prime?

I am all over that.

**Frozocrone**

Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Iechine wrote:
Gargoyles? I can do Gargoyles. if no one called it before me.

Nope, your good. Think you can do the Harpy and Crone as well? Lech, your one of the only people I can think of that has run Skyblight recently in your Batreps.

ductvader wrote:
Did someone call Warriors and Prime?

I am all over that.

Sorry bud, I beat you to it.

Harpy has been taken already.

**ductvader**

Just catching the end of this train...What's available?

Carnifex?

Exocrine?

Tyrrano?

**Frozocrone**

jy2 wrote:

TYRANID UPDATE LIST

Thanks guys. Here is a list of units to write up.

Also, if you want to make changes to your unit write-ups, just post the complete re-write on this thread or PM me and I will make the corrections/edits (more like copy and paste them ) onto p. 1 of the main tactica.

HQ

Hive Tyrant - jy2
Deathleaper
Old One Eye
Swarmlord
Tervigon - Frozocrone
Tyranid Prime - Unyielding Hunger
Tyrant Guard

ELITES

Haruspexes - Strat_N8
Hive Guards
Lictors - jy2
Malanthropes - jifel
Maleceptors
Neurothropes
Pyrovores - Unyielding Hunger
Venomthropes - jifel
Zoanthropes

TROOPS

Broodlords
Genestealers
Hormagants - Spoletta
Mucolids
Ripper Swarms
Termagants
Tyranid Warriors - Unyielding Hunger

FAST ATTACKS

Dimachaerons - luke1705
Gargoyles
Harpies - Strat_N8
Hive Crones
Meocitic Spores
Raveners - Spoletta
Red Terror
Sky-slasher Swarms
Spore Mines
Tyranid Shrikes - Unyielding Hunger

HEAVY SUPPORTS

Biovores - Amoras
Carnifexes (all, including Forgeworld) - Frozocone
Exocrines
Mawlocs
Sporocysts
Toxicrenes
Trygons - jy2
Tyrannocytes
Tyrannofexes

LORDS OF WAR

Barbed Hierodule
Scythed Hierodule
Harridan
Hierophant Bio-titan

FORMATIONS

Rising Leviathan I
Broodlord's Hunting Pack
Deathleaper's Assassin Brood
Gargoyle Bio-bombs
Lictor Forest Brood
Manufactorum Genestealers

Rising Leviathan II
Endless Swarm
Incubator Node
Living Artillery Node
Skyblight Swarm
Synaptic Swarm

Rising Leviathan III
Bioblast Node
Living Tide
Subterranean Swarm
Tyrant Node
Wrecker Node

Shields of Baal
Skytyrant Swarm
Neural Node
Hypertoxic Node
Spore Field
Skytide
Hive Fleet Leviathan

BIOMORPHS/WARGEAR

Let me know which you want to volunteer for and I will update this list. Or you could just post the review of the unit directly onto this thread and I will update the list and also the main tactica on p.1.

Quoting this for reference.

**Solidcrash**

Can somebody do termagant? I am unsure which better - twinlink spingant or dakkgant..

**Unyielding Hunger**

Solidcrash wrote:
Can somebody do termagant? I am unsure which better - twinlink spingant or dakkgant..

It depends on what you are referring to. Spinegants and Spikegants are actually on par with each other against certain targets. Devilgaunts are in the top bracket for use. I don't think I have ever heard of someone actually buying webgants however.

**ductvader**

I'll take Exocrine and Swarmlord

**tag8833**

Solidcrash wrote:
Can somebody do termagant? I am unsure which better - twinlink spingant or dakkgant..

I'll do Termagants. But I might not get to it until Monday.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ductvader wrote:
I'll take Exocrine and Swarmlord

I'm really interested in what you come up with there. I was considering volunteering for Swarmlord, but didn't think I had a representative understanding of him.

**ductvader**

I use Swarmlord in every other game. The real challenge for me will be staying objective.

**Unyielding Hunger**

Just make sure you stress the fact that even if he isn't quite the beatstick he used to be, he still operates as the perfect synaptic linchpin of a ground based attack.

**tag8833**

ductvader wrote:
I use Swarmlord in every other game. The real challenge for me will be staying objective.

I don't use Swarmlord in TAC lists. I use him if I'm doing something highly narrative like campaigns, I use him when I'm trying to nerf myself so that I can win without making my opponent feel bad, and I use him as my version of lictor Shaming, if someone is getting a bit too arrogant, I bring Swarmlord with a list that is otherwise tailored to table them.

**ductvader**

Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Just make sure you stress the fact that even if he isn't quite the beatstick he used to be, he still operates as the perfect synaptic linchpin of a ground based attack.

I got this down pat, no worries. I'm pretty much all ground force in Tyranids...no gargs, no harpies, no crones...though I may use the occasional Flyrant, Sky Slashers (rarely), or Shrikes.

**Asmodas**

ductvader wrote:
Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Just make sure you stress the fact that even if he isn't quite the beatstick he used to be, he still operates as the perfect synaptic linchpin of a ground based attack.
I got this down pat, no worries. I'm pretty much all ground force in Tyranids...no gargs, no harpies, no crones...though I may use the occasional Flyrant, Sky Slashers (rarely), or Shrikes.

Maybe you should do Sky slashers then. I think you're the first person I've heard of using them.

Thanks to all the volunteers. Lots of interesting stuff here.

**SHUPPET**

luke1705 wrote:
good write-ups on Bio-artefacts and Tervigons.

I would swap the final grading on the Trygon and Trygon Prime, but generally agree with you there. A little insight to my thinking. The Trygon Prime is like a Tervigon that is way better at shooting and assault, but doesn't poop out gants. The Trygon is closer to a Hauspex that is better in assault and deep striking.

I will write a "View from the Maelstrom" on Raveners. Even in eternal war games, Ravener lists are a hard counter to many armies.

I definitely agree that Raveners are under-appreciated. They're not going to win tournaments, no, but talk to wraiths. You want to waste your strength 8 on my 3+ save? Be my guest - they're not as expensive as your missile launcher platform, I promise. You know, unless you're IG. You'll always be screening them with Gargoyles (or should be, anyhow) and if they kill your Malanthrope in 1-2 turns....well...you're going to have a tough game on your hands anyhow. My list for them goes with a wave 2 arrival of....well....my entire army. They will not be high on your opponent's target priority list and they will do work with those claws. I probably would give them a solid C

**Sinful Hero**

Honestly I don't think it will hurt if two different people review the same unit- if you feel you have something else to add might as well post it.