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2014/12/07 10:06:27
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
the shrouded lord wrote: so what is this new maleceptor thing like? looks darned awesome and seems like it would look good next to my tyrant guard.
If you mean on the shelf next to your tyrant guard, then yes, its definitely a cool model. If you mean on the table? Just... No. Its widely regarded as being in competition for the absolute worst unit in the Game.
Polkadragon wrote: This is for use in the LGS, so no 5 Flyrants for me, rather a general TAC list. Will play against Chaos Space Marines with this friday, so welcome your input!
Spoiler:
-- Combined Arms
Hive Tyrant: twin-linked devourer with brainleech worms; twin-linked devourer with brainleech worms; wings; electroshock grubs
Hive Tyrant: twin-linked devourer with brainleech worms; twin-linked devourer with brainleech worms; wings; electroshock grubs
Drop in the Zoanthropes and the Tervigon with pods, while Malanthrope, Gaunts and the LAN take midfield. Flyrants do work as usual.
So, last Friday I used the above list to fight a Chaos Space Marine army and it went quite well.
His army list was something like:
* Chaos Lord on Bike
* Plague Marines in Rhino
* Plague Marines in Rhino
* 5 Havocs with Autocannons
* Helldrake
* 10 Cultists
* 10 Cultists
* A unit of 5 Spawns
* 5 Chaos Bikers
* 2 Obliterators
* 2 Obliterators
* 5 Terminators
We called it after turn 4, because the CSM were about to get tabled.
Things I learned about my own army:
* The Zoanthropes didn't make back their points. There wasn't really any heavy armour around, so they felt a bit wasted. In the end, they tried to Spirit Leech a unit of Plague Marines twice, got denied once, and rolled a 9 the second time :( Warp Blast did kill a few marines and they held up the rest of the Marines in CC, but it wasn't really enough to justify the high cost of the unit + pod.
* I podded in the Tervigon, and that was a success. Upon arriving, he completely wiped a unit of Cultists with his double flamer attack and forced my opponent to redirect his forces back to his own deployment zone. In the end, the Tervigon got killed by the Terminators, but by that time he had done his job and spawned two units.
* The 30 Termagaunt unit is just so great to tarpit something with. They held up the Biker + Lord unit for a couple of turns, until the Warriors could come in and finish them off.
* Speaking of the Warriors, I've taken the habit to equip the Living Artillery Warriors as such: scything/rending, scything/rending, scything/Barbed Strangler. Only 110 points and makes them such a great counterattack unit. In this game, they waited until the Bike unit was pinned and then charged in with 15 attacks, of which a whole bunch rending. You do lose the Devourers on the Warriors, but I found myself not using them very much anyway.
* Tyrannocyte deathspitter shooting was great and the fact that you can move them around makes them less random than you'd think. They wiped half a unit of Cultists in this case and put a couple of wounds on the Terminators as well.
* Flyrant were great and Malanthrope was great, but that's nothing new. Obliterators deep struck in next to the Living Artillery Node and tried to take out the Exocrine, but 2+ cover is a bitch.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/07 11:56:11
2014/12/07 15:09:31
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
the shrouded lord wrote: I assume tha's because of the 205 point cost?
iT seems to me like a more expensive, better carnifex?
Please advise how it is conparrible to a Carnifex?
Yes, Totally confused. Every aspect of it is worse than a Carnifex except the number of wounds, and with 4+ save instead of a 3+, Those wounds disappear 33% faster, and thus despite one more wound it is significantly less survivable.
2014/12/07 15:40:46
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
the shrouded lord wrote: so what is this new maleceptor thing like? looks darned awesome and seems like it would look good next to my tyrant guard.
For being a new model that everyone agrees looks pretty boss, the Maleceptor's rules really miss the mark. For example:
--- A 5++ on a tyranid MC is a sight for sore eyes, but it's normal 4+ armor save means it'll be relying on the invul against most of the weapons that will normally wound it. So, even though it has a 5++, it's still hanging out in ruins near a Malanthrope like everyone else.
--- It's new psychic power, Psychic Overload, with the ability to target 3 different units and cause D3 wounds (or a glance) that ignore normal armor and cover saves seems pretty great, but each target unit requires a separate manifestation. To reliably manifest a warp charge 2 power, you'll want to throw AT LEAST 4 psychic dice, which means by the time your Maleceptor has fired mind bullets at his 3 targets, you've likely rolled 12 dice. You could always spend less dice (you'll probably be forced to, in fact), but then you're just praying for good dice.
--- Speaking of praying for good dice, the Maleceptor is BS3. This matters because as of this moment, focussed witchfires require to hit rolls. I know this is a highly debated topic, and I'm not saying I have the answer, but as of right now the majority of people playing this game believe peeps need to roll to hit when manifesting focussed witchfires. If we get a FAQ ruling that removes the roll to hit, then things may change a bit for the Malecpetor, but as of right now, spending a ton of psychic dice to miss 50% of the time is a huge thumbs down.
So how dumb does GW look right now? They make a really cool model that we'd all love to go out and purchase, but then they take a huge dump all over it's rules and everyone is left asking themselves "why am I playin this turd?"
Currently there's only one answer, the Neural Node Formation.
1 Maleceptor
3 Zoanthrope Broods (granting you more psychic dice, which you obviously need for this dice hog)
+6" Shadow in the Warp (who doesn't like that?)
Reroll 1's on psychic tests (making your psychic tests a little more reliable is huge, especially if you end up having to spend less dice on a manifestation attempt than you'd like)
However, even after outlining all of that, and lets say I already want to field a large unit of zoanthropes for anti-tank purposes (so they'd also benefit from the re-rolling of 1s on psychic tests), I STILL WOULDN'T take this formation in a competitive game. There's always going to be more efficient uses for your points than to rely on the maleceptor and his Neural Node, at least in his current incarnation.
The best thing to do is probably wait a year, buy one on super discount, and await the inevitable huge upgrade he's sure to get in the next codex. There's no way GW will keep him this inconsistent if they want to sell those models.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/07 15:58:08
2014/12/07 15:49:11
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
shadowfinder wrote: Since people have been getting info on their list here I'll do the same.
I like to get some feed back on it which list is more competitive. I am taking one of these list to tshift in seattle. Incontroll, Jy2, and some other good players are showing up. And I like to make a respectable showing and even have a chance to stomp one or more of them
This list gives me some great shooting options. The Lan is a proven formation that works well. With the Barbed Hierodule opening tanks and the like I should have a target rich envierment for the LAN and the tyrants. The Droppoding Fex’s will alow me t put pressure in areas I need to. I like the concept of this list but I have yet to play test it.
What would I have to worry about with this list? Is the lack of bubble wrap a concern?
This list lets me hold obj. better and still hits like a tone of bricks. With the crone helping out it should handle IK and Serpent spam well I think.
I do play aggressive. The first list is better at playing a Trapdoor style. While list 2 is a kind of all or nothing style. Thoughts or ideas on how to improve or what list would give me fits are always welcome//needed
Haha....you can stomp on Geoff or the other guys, but please take it easy on poor little me.
BTW, I like your list #1 better.
As for me, I am bringing Necrons. This will probably be their last hurrah before they get updated with a new codex.
Benlisted wrote: I guess another good thing about the Children of Cryptus is that you have to use them as Warlord to get PE - meaning your opponent doesn't StW by shooting down a flyrant. Only problem is it is a bit pricier than the minimum StW denial unit (5 genes and brood for 130). But it has the benefit of being a fairly nasty combat threat (though that goes against StW denial..), and guaranteeing a useful trait as opposed to risking some of the dreadful ones. Anyway, basically I'm pleased to have a use for the 8 ST genes I got very cheap off a friend xD.
Anyway, thanks for the commentary on Reaper VS Maw-claws on the Skytyrant! I have a few more queries.
I'm getting a few more Warrior broods soon and am unsure how to equip the few I will be kitting out with LWBS or RC - basically do I keep the Devourer or swap to ST for the bonus attack? I'm leaning towards Devourers, as I don't plan to shell out for AG (mostly since I'll be running them in a couple of different ways and won't always want it), they might be getting their BS buffed by a Prime, and because I figure Shrikes are a better bet for Assaulty "Warriors". But anything from people with experience trying them is appreciated.
As an aside (unsure if this is the best place to ask) - do the units in my Endless Swarm formation actually get Obj Secured? I'd read online that they do - but upon reading the formations sections in the rulebook I can't see anything that indicates that they would: command benefits seem to only apply to units in the Warlord's detachment?
But the Strategic Traits are so much better. As my general rule-of-thumb, powers that benefit the entire army are much better than powers that benefit just 1 unit. Also, you're going to play this unit aggressively anyways, as it would be a total waste to just sit the 215-pt unit on an objective, so you WILL be putting your Warlord at risk.
For warriors, I like to run them with rending claws + devourers if they are a "forwards" unit. A forwards unit is one that you will integrate into the offense and, in essence, play more aggressively. This gives them flexiblity when you push them forwards - against infantry, transports and tougher units like other MC's. However, as a min-sized objective-sitting, Synapse baby-sitting "backfield" unit, just keep them plain and un-upgraded (with perhaps only a stranglethorn or venom cannon).
No, units in the Endless Swarm are NOT ObSec. They have to be part of a Combined Arms Detachment (CAD) or Allied unit to be ObSec.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/07 17:28:46
jifel wrote: Ok, the weekend is here, so I'm taking a quick break from finals studying to write another review:
Tyrannofex (by jifel)
C+ (on foot with Rupture Cannon)
I'm with you all the way until here. If anything is deserving of an F, it is sure the Malaceptor. But if 2 things deserve an F it is the Malaceptor and the Rupture Cannon TFex. 205 points for a model that hits once per turn at S10 AP4 without ignore cover? Awful.
jifel wrote: I fully understand that view, and I guess relative to some other grades I would agree that a C+ may be too high. But, it does fill a role that nothing else in our army does, even if it does it poorly. I may bump it down to a D, but I will say that it does not deserve an F, simply because the Fleshborer Hive exists.
I wouldn't say he deserves an F. While his shooting does suck harder than my vacuum, he is still a MC with 2+ that you can charge forwards to soak up shots and can still threaten vehicles with both the rupture cannon and egrubs.
I agree with jifel's revised grading. The rupture-fex is a D in my books.
jifel, would you like me to change the grading in the main tactica to reflect your new thoughts about the rupture-fex?
tag8833 wrote: I had 2 interesting games today. Playing a few guys that haven't beat me in quite some time, and so I was looking for a creative way to tank a couple of games. I settled on the concept of Warrior Spam, and then took that a littler farther, and decided to play only T4 models with multiple wounds.
My 2000 point List:
Spoiler:
Tyranid Prime (BS + LW, Maw Claws, AG, FHs, Regen, Toxin Sacs) <- Only model not T4
5 Raveners (Devourers, RCs)
6 Raveners (Deathspitters, RCs)
6 Shrikes (2 with BS + LW + STs, 4 with Devourer + RCs, All had FHs, AGs)
Deathleapers Assassin Brood.
Death Leaper
Lictor
Lictor
Lictor
Lictor
Lictor
Game 1:
Spoiler:
A Tau gunline list that included 1 Ion Tide, 5 large groups of fire warriors, 2 squads of pathfinders, 2 Devilfish, Aegis + Comms, Farsight + Suites deepstriking, and 3 Plasma Suites Deep Striking.
I rolled master of Ambush, and infiltrated the Prime + Warriors, the Venoms, and 2 Zoeys. The Lictors all infiltrated as well. I got first turn and shot up some fire warriors, and managed to kill a squad of pathfinders for 1st blood. Generally I descended on his corner hoping to assault on turn 2.
In his turn he killed 7 of the 8 warriors with the prime, a Zoey, and a Lictor. My turn, I pulled off a massive, massive assault chaining. Grabbing 4 Sqauds of Fire Warriors, a Devilfish, the Riptide, and a Squad of pathfinders. Everything in his army was locked in CC except for the squad of fire warriors that was still embarked in a Devilfish, and the units in reserves. I killed him off his Comms Relay, and only the 3 Suits came in. We were headed for a turn 4 tabling when he conceded.
Tyranid Overwhelming Victory
Game 2:
Spoiler:
The Deathstorm Blood Angels formation with a Grey Knight detachment, and a Space wolf ally. The Grey knights had 7 psilencers spread out over 5 units, including 2 Heavy psilencers on the Nemisis Dread Knight. Also a Dreadnought, and 5 Longfangs shooting Missiles.
I knew from the start that this game was going to go bad for me. Way, Way, Way too much S8+ and Force for my 3 wound T4 list. He tailored to me, and I'm actually somewhat proud of how effectively he did it, I've been working hard trying to teach him how to build an effective list, and this list was not optimized, but very good against what I was bringing.
It was Big Guns, with Hammer and Anvil deployment. Turn 1 I advanced, but only manage to kill 2 long fangs with shooting. I also made a tactical deployment error by deep striking my Lictors. I should have started them on the table. In his turn 1 he managed a 10 inch charge with the Dreadnought into my Shrikes, then the Deathcompany came in. I rolled absolutely abysmally, and lost all of the Shrikes while only killing one Deathcompany.
In my Turn 2 only 2 Lictors came in. They popped the Dreadnought. I charged a Dreadknight with the raveners and did 7 Rends, but he made 4 4+ invuls, and then killed 4 Raveners. My other group of Raveners mixed it up with a big squad of grey Knights, and eventually they more or less killed eachother. Everything that could shot at the Grey Knight Terminators, and did a ton of wounds. 20+, he made all of his 2+ saves, and so I chickened out and didn't assault. On his turn he killed everything but my warriors, and the lictors in reserve. Turn 4, the warriors died, and all I had left were 3 Lictors, but I still had a chance because he was way out of position. I needed 1 Lictor to kill 2 Longfangs in assault, and 1 Lictor to kill 4 Blood claws in assault, and 1 Lictor to take the final wound from a dreadknight. Unfortunately, the Longfangs managed to take the last wound off the lictor in assault, and the Dreadknight made his 4++, so I was left with only 2 Lictors on the board and Conceded.
Rules question: Can a Shrike with Flesh Hooks use them in Assault against a Dreadnought? If so, do I get 1 attack or 2?
Thanks for sharing!
Flesh hooks are not melee weapons so no, you cannot use them in Assault.
shadowfinder wrote: Since people have been getting info on their list here I'll do the same.
I like to get some feed back on it which list is more competitive. I am taking one of these list to tshift in seattle. Incontroll, Jy2, and some other good players are showing up. And I like to make a respectable showing and even have a chance to stomp one or more of them
This list gives me some great shooting options. The Lan is a proven formation that works well. With the Barbed Hierodule opening tanks and the like I should have a target rich envierment for the LAN and the tyrants. The Droppoding Fex’s will alow me t put pressure in areas I need to. I like the concept of this list but I have yet to play test it.
What would I have to worry about with this list? Is the lack of bubble wrap a concern?
This list lets me hold obj. better and still hits like a tone of bricks. With the crone helping out it should handle IK and Serpent spam well I think.
I do play aggressive. The first list is better at playing a Trapdoor style. While list 2 is a kind of all or nothing style. Thoughts or ideas on how to improve or what list would give me fits are always welcome//needed
Haha....you can stomp on Geoff or the other guys, but please take it easy on poor little me.
BTW, I like your list #1 better.
As for me, I am bringing Necrons. This will probably be their last hurrah before they get updated with a new codex.
Spoiler:
Benlisted wrote: I guess another good thing about the Children of Cryptus is that you have to use them as Warlord to get PE - meaning your opponent doesn't StW by shooting down a flyrant. Only problem is it is a bit pricier than the minimum StW denial unit (5 genes and brood for 130). But it has the benefit of being a fairly nasty combat threat (though that goes against StW denial..), and guaranteeing a useful trait as opposed to risking some of the dreadful ones. Anyway, basically I'm pleased to have a use for the 8 ST genes I got very cheap off a friend xD.
Anyway, thanks for the commentary on Reaper VS Maw-claws on the Skytyrant! I have a few more queries.
I'm getting a few more Warrior broods soon and am unsure how to equip the few I will be kitting out with LWBS or RC - basically do I keep the Devourer or swap to ST for the bonus attack? I'm leaning towards Devourers, as I don't plan to shell out for AG (mostly since I'll be running them in a couple of different ways and won't always want it), they might be getting their BS buffed by a Prime, and because I figure Shrikes are a better bet for Assaulty "Warriors". But anything from people with experience trying them is appreciated.
As an aside (unsure if this is the best place to ask) - do the units in my Endless Swarm formation actually get Obj Secured? I'd read online that they do - but upon reading the formations sections in the rulebook I can't see anything that indicates that they would: command benefits seem to only apply to units in the Warlord's detachment?
But the Strategic Traits are so much better. As my general rule-of-thumb, powers that benefit the entire army are much better than powers that benefit just 1 unit. Also, you're going to play this unit aggressively anyways, as it would be a total waste to just sit the 215-pt unit on an objective, so you WILL be putting your Warlord at risk.
For warriors, I like to run them with rending claws + devourers if they are a "forwards" unit. A forwards unit is one that you will integrate into the offense and, in essence, play more aggressively. This gives them flexiblity when you push them forwards - against infantry, transports and tougher units like other MC's. However, as a min-sized objective-sitting, Synapse baby-sitting "backfield" unit, just keep them plain and un-upgraded (with perhaps only a stranglethorn or venom cannon).
No, units in the Endless Swarm are NOT ObSec. They have to be part of a Combined Arms Detachment (CAD) or Allied unit to be ObSec.
While a PE/stealth Genestealer unit is pretty nice, I am not sold on them because they make your Warlord a threat just like Flyrants, but are easier to wipe out. Another concern of mine is that the Children of Cryptus don't synchronize well with most of our "Multiple Threat Overload" units, and I don't think the unit is good enough to work on it's own. All of our fast threat units rely on being hidden/protected turn 1, with either a 2+ cover save and being far away, or in reserve, and then suddenly getting close turn 2 thanks to Reserve DS/Flying 24" forward. The GEnestealer unit would have to infiltrate forward to get there turn 2, but that means turn 1 would be left mostly exposed and too far forwards. I think that the best solution would be to infiltrate them into a ruin and GTG for a 2+ cover save before synapse rallying them with a Flyrant. That would make them fairly resilient, and as long as the enemy doesn't ignore cover they should live, but I fear that they would take the brunt of short ranged weapons (bolters, lasguns, etc.) that usually do nothing turn 1 thanks to our threats being "hidden".
@Shadowfinder: I'm with jy2, list one seems to be the better option in a TAC sense. Barbed Hierodules have been demonstrated to be nasty so I like the inclusion, and then the LAN gives you plenty of good options. Plus, who doesn't love a Dakkafex in a Pod? However, I think that list 2 has the potential to be an awesome list. My concerns with it at the moment are the lack of EGrubs on the Flyrants, and the Devilgants. With no delivery system, I feel like they don't accomplish much in the list. I would much rather replace the Gants with 3 Rippers, which then frees up 45 points, to take two EGrubs and have 25 points left. Personally, I would take the 25 points and slap a Barbed Strangler on one of the Pods, just to give some anti-horde options with the loss of the LAN from list 1. I like the idea of double FexPods and 3 FLyers a lot personally, but then I've never been as sold on the LAN as some other players. Either way, the two lists are both solid, and I hope you do well at the GT!
@jy2: Go ahead and update the TFex on the main page! Now, a quick question on the SkyTyrant swarm as you've used it before. Would you consider taking Adrenal Glands on the Gargoyles? I'm thinking of running 30 gargs with the SkyTyrant, and I think for 75 points (including the Flyrant) the rerolls on the charge are massively useful, plus with such a big, fast unit, I think that multi-charges will happen a lot, so it'd be very useful to have that +1 strength to catch a couple of vehicles in there and put some hurt on them. Right now, I'm thinking of replacing the Imperial Knight and a gaunt blob in my army with a Flyrant with the Reaper, EG and Adrenal Glands and 30 gargoyles with Adrenal. It's a 510 point sink admittedly, but with Malanthrope support it'll hit like a Brick and be toug h to take down, especially when I'll have 3 FMCs and a FexPod coming down with it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/07 17:57:58
2014/12/07 17:52:29
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
It's tournament legal for most until if/when TO's start ruling that Hive Fleet Leviathan counts as a CAD or something along those lines. It's basically the same way straight Tyranid lists are getting five Flyrants.
I played this list today against Grey Knights/Space Wolves with drop podding Purifiers. My opponent brought 2 10 man Purifier squads with 2 incinerators each, an 8 man Purifer squad with a ML3 libby all in pods, 2 Grey Hunter squads with a Rune Priest in pods, a min Strike Squad, and a Dreadknight. Turns out he had a 2000 pt list to my 1850, but it was nobody's fault. Neither of us really asked as the game was a wee rushed to start with.
Spoiler:
He had first turn and dropped in a combat squadded Purifier unit, the Purifiers with his Libby and a Grey Hunter pod. All the Purifiers landed near my GUO and ScreamerStar, fortunately the Grey Hunters scattered far enough back to bring their full weight to bear. DK shunted forward. It looked bad, but fortunately all the Cleansing Flames he popped off were able to be denied as I was denying on a 4+ and had plenty of dice to throw(targeting ML3 psykers with PsyShooting/Maledictions a'int exactly gonna go your way ). Incinerators and massed bolter fire did put a dent in the ScreamerStar though.
The Flyrants which I had put in a corner away from any objectives leapt in to the air and took out one 5 man Purifier combat squad and put a dent in the 8 man unit. Unfortunately the 8 man unit failed their morale check and fell back making it impossible for my GUO to make what was otherwise a guaranteed charge (he had Iron Arm, Endurance AND Warp Speed that turn ). Nurgle Prince made it into combat with his Grey Hunters and killed a few.
Turn 2, his last purifier squad comes in behind my screamers (who now have 3++ rerolling 1s) and pretty much finish neutering them. Nurgle Prince finishes off Grey Hunters this turn and flyrants continue to merk mehreens. Don't know why he thought his Dreadknight could tango with a buffed GUO but he charges it. I whiff first round of combat, but end up killing it in my turn. Nurgle Prince finishes off Grey Hunters in my turn as well. I had the Mucolids, Nurglings, and Horrors all in reserve and they all came in this turn. All mucolids mishap, one dies, two go into ongoing reserve, and the horrors and nurglings scatter away from their objectives. Meh, deepstrike.
Turn 3, he finishes off my ScreamerStar in his shooting phase and assaults the Nurgle Prince with 5 Purifiers who have Force. Nurgle Prince responds by eating them. He shuffles around a bit but only his Strike squad sits on an objective. Flyrants continue to do what they do and just dakka away. Nurglings grab an objective as well as the Nurgle Prince. We had to call it here due to time. I would have liked to see it play it to the bitter end, as I feel it would have been a close game.
All in all I think the list is pretty good. It performed admirably, especially considering the points deficit. Flyrants just cover so much of what Daemons lack without exposing any further weaknesses. That said, it could definitely use a few tweaks though, and I need more experience running it. A few thoughts:
-First off, the Screamerstar did almost nothing this game, which was frustrating. I didn't roll Cursed Earth, so no 2++ cheese. It was also the prime target of his alpha strike, so it was difficult to play them aggressively after taking heavy casualties. In other lists I have no problem summoning with this unit, but I found I was throwing so many dice at keeping the GUO and Nurgle Prince alive that I just didn't have the Warp Charges. This is partially due to the fact that I was expending more warp charges per power than I normally would since he so many denial dice. Also I kind of just had too many buffs to work with (I rolled Iron Arm, Endurance, and Warp Speed on BOTH of my Nurgle baddies. . . talk about picking your powers).
-A little bit more ObSec would have been nice. Might try to find points to replace a Mucolid with some Rippers.
-Flyrants are awesome (duh.) and the Nurgle Princes compliment them really well with their ability to kill just about any other MC in the game. With impunity if you roll up Warp Speed.
Thanks for sharing. A couple of thoughts:
1. I'm sad to see how far my favorite Imperial army (the Grey Knights) have dropped. I liked them so much better in the previous codex and it was more because of the flexibility and variety in army builds that they used to be able to run. Sigh.
2. I'm finding that, in a Daemon army, no matter how many good powers you get, you're only going to be able to cast maybe 25% of them....and that is actually on a good day. My Nurgle opponent got Iron Arm on both of his GUO's against me and not once did he even cast one of them. So don't be too happy when you get a lot of powers. More likely than not, you probably won't be able to use them.
3. Focus on Defensive powers first (i.e. Endurance vs force weapons, Invisibility if you have it, Cursed Earth, Forewarning, Shrouding for flyers, etc.), Summoning powers 2nd and offensive powers last (don't need to cast Warp Speed until you are actually in combat, you don't want to finish off the unit in your turn anyways). If your units are not in any danger, then just focus on Summoning.
4. Rippers > Mucolids because rippers score. However, since you are running the Leviathan formation, then no ObSec Tyranid troops for you anyways. Shore up your scoring with summoned daemons, daemonettes for offense and pink horrors for all other occasions.
5. Flyrants rock in almost any format/game. You're just a nice guy for not running 3 of them.
All in all I think the list is pretty good. It performed admirably, especially considering the points deficit. Flyrants just cover so much of what Daemons lack without exposing any further weaknesses. That said, it could definitely use a few tweaks though, and I need more experience running it. A few thoughts:
-First off, the Screamerstar did almost nothing this game, which was frustrating. I didn't roll Cursed Earth, so no 2++ cheese. It was also the prime target of his alpha strike, so it was difficult to play them aggressively after taking heavy casualties. In other lists I have no problem summoning with this unit, but I found I was throwing so many dice at keeping the GUO and Nurgle Prince alive that I just didn't have the Warp Charges. This is partially due to the fact that I was expending more warp charges per power than I normally would since he so many denial dice. Also I kind of just had too many buffs to work with (I rolled Iron Arm, Endurance, and Warp Speed on BOTH of my Nurgle baddies. . . talk about picking your powers).
-A little bit more ObSec would have been nice. Might try to find points to replace a Mucolid with some Rippers.
-Flyrants are awesome (duh.) and the Nurgle Princes compliment them really well with their ability to kill just about any other MC in the game. With impunity if you roll up Warp Speed.
Thanks for the write up dude. I agree, Nids, specifically Flyrants make a Daemon list whole. You get so much for your money when comparing a Flyrant with a standard DP.
The problem with summoning and trying to make other units durable is the lack of psychic dice to do both as you have experienced.
this is why I like 3 heralds in a screamerstar plus fateweaver as that's giving you 11 rolls to get cursed earth and the other summing powers you need.
that way you don't need to be casting invisibility or shrouding, endurance or iron arm to keep your units durable.
The psychic dice in my experience should be mostly spent on summoning. I aim to summon 3 units a turn and cast cursed earth. I may switch to flickering fire in later turns if I feel the need.
2014/12/07 18:48:52
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Hey all, so I've been out of the Nid game for a couple months, but I've been swiftly pulled back by the influx of amazing new goodies.
I know of the Lictor list that won the GT, but I still am not quite sure as to what value Lictors are bringing to lists. Especially in the sort of list that jy2 posted earlier with the 5 Flyrants. Can anyone enlighten me?
I take it because they are a cheap and very flexible scoring option. The idea of MSU is to run a lot of cheap, sacrificial units. If one gets blown away, then no biggie. He's only 50-pts and not a great loss to the army. But then your opponent just wasted a valuable unit (i.e. wasted his resources) in trying to take out an expendable unit instead of shooting at my more dangerous unit, the flyrant.
The idea of running cheap MSU units is to make target priority tough for your opponent. You either shoot at my hard-to-kill flyrants and let my MSU units grab objectives and otherwise harass your army, or you shoot at them and let my flyrants continue to ravage your army. Either ways is fine with me because 1) my flyrants are tough to kill and 2) I don't really mind losing a unit that I consider as fodder anyways.
However, lictors are not just objective grabbers. They have several benefits that are highly useful to the army. They can be placed with pin-point precision anywhere on the table (I mean placed anywhere that is legal). They help with your other reserves (that comes in on subsequent turns after your lictors come in). Finally, while 50-pt units don't really do much, lictors, however, are actually a threat to enemy MSU units and transports. Thus, they will force your opponent to take them out. That's fine with me as that is 1 less gun aiming at your more crucial units.
So, last Friday I used the above list to fight a Chaos Space Marine army and it went quite well.
His army list was something like:
* Chaos Lord on Bike
* Plague Marines in Rhino
* Plague Marines in Rhino
* 5 Havocs with Autocannons
* Helldrake
* 10 Cultists
* 10 Cultists
* A unit of 5 Spawns
* 5 Chaos Bikers
* 2 Obliterators
* 2 Obliterators
* 5 Terminators
We called it after turn 4, because the CSM were about to get tabled.
Things I learned about my own army:
* The Zoanthropes didn't make back their points. There wasn't really any heavy armour around, so they felt a bit wasted. In the end, they tried to Spirit Leech a unit of Plague Marines twice, got denied once, and rolled a 9 the second time :( Warp Blast did kill a few marines and they held up the rest of the Marines in CC, but it wasn't really enough to justify the high cost of the unit + pod.
* I podded in the Tervigon, and that was a success. Upon arriving, he completely wiped a unit of Cultists with his double flamer attack and forced my opponent to redirect his forces back to his own deployment zone. In the end, the Tervigon got killed by the Terminators, but by that time he had done his job and spawned two units.
* The 30 Termagaunt unit is just so great to tarpit something with. They held up the Biker + Lord unit for a couple of turns, until the Warriors could come in and finish them off.
* Speaking of the Warriors, I've taken the habit to equip the Living Artillery Warriors as such: scything/rending, scything/rending, scything/Barbed Strangler. Only 110 points and makes them such a great counterattack unit. In this game, they waited until the Bike unit was pinned and then charged in with 15 attacks, of which a whole bunch rending. You do lose the Devourers on the Warriors, but I found myself not using them very much anyway.
* Tyrannocyte deathspitter shooting was great and the fact that you can move them around makes them less random than you'd think. They wiped half a unit of Cultists in this case and put a couple of wounds on the Terminators as well.
* Flyrant were great and Malanthrope was great, but that's nothing new. Obliterators deep struck in next to the Living Artillery Node and tried to take out the Exocrine, but 2+ cover is a bitch.
Chaos just have it tough against Tyranids. Actually, most marine builds do. I feel really bad for the CSM codex. They were much better last edition with the super hell turkeys, but now, yeesh. Hopefully, the new Imperial Armour 13 book will breathe some new life into them.
I'm not big on the whole zoanthrope/neurothrope combo unit. To me, it's a fairly sizeable investment on a very inconsistent unit. Personally, I'd pass on that unit. I want my units to be a little more reliable performance-wise (with the exception of the dimachaeron, who is the model of inconsistency but oh-so-bada$$ ).
Thanks for sharing.
Verviedi wrote: I need to know how to beat this list in an 1850 game with IGnids.
1. Flyers and templates. Run dual-flyrants and just start picking off the important units.
2. Your best options for blasts - and these are very good Take-All-Comer's units that should be in your lists anyways - mawlocs, biovores and IG wyverns.
3. Ignore his hammerheads initially. They are just too hard to take out until your flyrants can get rear armor shots. Just make sure you park your tanks in cover.
4. Play to the objectives. Always plan for how you are going to take the objectives. Kill off his chances for getting to objectives. For me, that usually means to kill off his mobility. That means the piranhas, riptide and the suits.
5. Use terrain. Insist on fair terrain with at least 1 or 2 LOS-blocking terrain. DO NOT just let your opponent setup the terrain. The fairest way to arrange terrain is to take turns placing them and insist that you guys use at least 1-2 big LOS-blockers. I repeat, INSIST that terrain be fair. You have to put your foot down if your opponent disagrees, especially if it is the guy you always play against.
You can handle your opponent as long as you don't let him take advantage of you in the game.
@jy2: Go ahead and update the TFex on the main page! Now, a quick question on the SkyTyrant swarm as you've used it before. Would you consider taking Adrenal Glands on the Gargoyles? I'm thinking of running 30 gargs with the SkyTyrant, and I think for 75 points (including the Flyrant) the rerolls on the charge are massively useful, plus with such a big, fast unit, I think that multi-charges will happen a lot, so it'd be very useful to have that +1 strength to catch a couple of vehicles in there and put some hurt on them. Right now, I'm thinking of replacing the Imperial Knight and a gaunt blob in my army with a Flyrant with the Reaper, EG and Adrenal Glands and 30 gargoyles with Adrenal. It's a 510 point sink admittedly, but with Malanthrope support it'll hit like a Brick and be toug h to take down, especially when I'll have 3 FMCs and a FexPod coming down with it.
Ok, done!
No, don't upgrade your gargs. My motto is (at least for gribblies) bodies over upgrades. To upgrade 30-gargoyle unit, you can instead get 10 more gargoyles. That is a much more worthwile investment IMO.
You should be cracking open enemy transports with other units (i.e. flyrants and dakkafex) for your skytyrant unit to multi-charge.
BTW, if you multi-charge, you lose the benefits of Furious Charge due to making a disorderly charge.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/12/07 18:58:39
who's played a game using the skytyrant swarm in a competitive set up? I want to know how a CC flyrant with goyles tailing back to a malanthrope would fair in a tough match up.
Has anyone seen this or have any experience?
2014/12/07 20:02:19
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Wilson wrote: who's played a game using the skytyrant swarm in a competitive set up? I want to know how a CC flyrant with goyles tailing back to a malanthrope would fair in a tough match up.
Has anyone seen this or have any experience?
While I haven't run them in a tournament, my instincts tell me that they will do well. Board control is really the strength of this unit and with that many gargoyles, they have a humongous footprint and a big DO-NOT-COME-NEAR-ME sign on them.
Actually, for my next tournament, I am thinking of running triple-flyrants + the Skytyrant formation. I have a feeling that they will kick ass, especially when supported by all those flyrants (and probably a dimachaeron as backup).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/07 20:02:33
tag8833 wrote: Rules question: Can a Shrike with Flesh Hooks use them in Assault against a Dreadnought? If so, do I get 1 attack or 2?
Flesh hooks are not melee weapons so no, you cannot use them in Assault.
They are grenades. Most Grenades can be used in assault, but you are correct, that Flesh Hooks can't, because they have no melee profile, and the Grenade rule says a profile is needed to use them in melee.
2014/12/07 20:14:50
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
@jy2: Go ahead and update the TFex on the main page! Now, a quick question on the SkyTyrant swarm as you've used it before. Would you consider taking Adrenal Glands on the Gargoyles? I'm thinking of running 30 gargs with the SkyTyrant, and I think for 75 points (including the Flyrant) the rerolls on the charge are massively useful, plus with such a big, fast unit, I think that multi-charges will happen a lot, so it'd be very useful to have that +1 strength to catch a couple of vehicles in there and put some hurt on them. Right now, I'm thinking of replacing the Imperial Knight and a gaunt blob in my army with a Flyrant with the Reaper, EG and Adrenal Glands and 30 gargoyles with Adrenal. It's a 510 point sink admittedly, but with Malanthrope support it'll hit like a Brick and be toug h to take down, especially when I'll have 3 FMCs and a FexPod coming down with it.
Ok, done!
No, don't upgrade your gargs. My motto is (at least for gribblies) bodies over upgrades. To upgrade 30-gargoyle unit, you can instead get 10 more gargoyles. That is a much more worthwile investment IMO.
You should be cracking open enemy transports with other units (i.e. flyrants and dakkafex) for your skytyrant unit to multi-charge.
BTW, if you multi-charge, you lose the benefits of Furious Charge due to making a disorderly charge.
I fully understand the bodies over upgrades approach, but I forgot about the disorderly charge part. Thought that was just the attack bonus, but I think you're right on losing FC too. If that's the case though, it makes the decision a lot easier then. Barebones it is! That actually will allow me to squeeze a bit more into my 1850 list.
2014/12/07 21:01:53
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Wilson wrote: who's played a game using the skytyrant swarm in a competitive set up? I want to know how a CC flyrant with goyles tailing back to a malanthrope would fair in a tough match up.
I think Skytyrant will be good in Tyranid Tourney lists, but it doesn't fit effortlessly into a current lists, it will require some list design and experimentation to really reveal its power.
The biggest problem is that it fundamentally cannot handle Imperial Knights, and with a footprint of that size it cannot avoid them.
It opens up all sorts of new options, but with that comes a need to fundamentally redesign lists. My first thought is to run it as a powerful, and tough distraction unit alongside a Flying Circus. Like this:
You Can use the Flying bases as a mobile screen to deny assault to Imperial Knights. Plus a Flying Circus of that Type can fairly easily kill 3-4 Imperial Knights, so it would be an absolute hard counter to Pacific Rim lists, not that we need much help with those lists usually.
2014/12/07 21:11:26
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Wilson wrote: who's played a game using the skytyrant swarm in a competitive set up? I want to know how a CC flyrant with goyles tailing back to a malanthrope would fair in a tough match up.
I think Skytyrant will be good in Tyranid Tourney lists, but it doesn't fit effortlessly into a current lists, it will require some list design and experimentation to really reveal its power.
The biggest problem is that it fundamentally cannot handle Imperial Knights, and with a footprint of that size it cannot avoid them.
It opens up all sorts of new options, but with that comes a need to fundamentally redesign lists. My first thought is to run it as a powerful, and tough distraction unit alongside a Flying Circus. Like this:
You Can use the Flying bases as a mobile screen to deny assault to Imperial Knights. Plus a Flying Circus of that Type can fairly easily kill 3-4 Imperial Knights, so it would be an absolute hard counter to Pacific Rim lists, not that we need much help with those lists usually.
I've got no problems with the Skytyrant unit against knights. Adlance? Bring it on! That 1100-pts of knights should be more afraid of getting tarpitted by my 550-pt skytyrant unit than vice versa. I'll hold them up for probably 3-4 game turns. Meanwhile, my army will destroy the rest of his army. For every turn his knights aren't "producing" (as in, wiping out a unit), then it's hurting him more than it's hurting me. It also means that he can't go grabbing Maelstrom secondary objectives. If there's anything the knights should fear, it's a cheapo unit tying them up for several game turns.
BTW, with your list, I wouldn't go triple-crones. That is overkill. I'd drop 1 crone for more support units, like upgrading the mucolids to rippers for objective purposes and maybe even grabbing some lictors (or more gargoyles).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/07 21:12:09
It's tournament legal for most until if/when TO's start ruling that Hive Fleet Leviathan counts as a CAD or something along those lines. It's basically the same way straight Tyranid lists are getting five Flyrants.
I played this list today against Grey Knights/Space Wolves with drop podding Purifiers. My opponent brought 2 10 man Purifier squads with 2 incinerators each, an 8 man Purifer squad with a ML3 libby all in pods, 2 Grey Hunter squads with a Rune Priest in pods, a min Strike Squad, and a Dreadknight. Turns out he had a 2000 pt list to my 1850, but it was nobody's fault. Neither of us really asked as the game was a wee rushed to start with.
Spoiler:
He had first turn and dropped in a combat squadded Purifier unit, the Purifiers with his Libby and a Grey Hunter pod. All the Purifiers landed near my GUO and ScreamerStar, fortunately the Grey Hunters scattered far enough back to bring their full weight to bear. DK shunted forward. It looked bad, but fortunately all the Cleansing Flames he popped off were able to be denied as I was denying on a 4+ and had plenty of dice to throw(targeting ML3 psykers with PsyShooting/Maledictions a'int exactly gonna go your way ). Incinerators and massed bolter fire did put a dent in the ScreamerStar though.
The Flyrants which I had put in a corner away from any objectives leapt in to the air and took out one 5 man Purifier combat squad and put a dent in the 8 man unit. Unfortunately the 8 man unit failed their morale check and fell back making it impossible for my GUO to make what was otherwise a guaranteed charge (he had Iron Arm, Endurance AND Warp Speed that turn ). Nurgle Prince made it into combat with his Grey Hunters and killed a few.
Turn 2, his last purifier squad comes in behind my screamers (who now have 3++ rerolling 1s) and pretty much finish neutering them. Nurgle Prince finishes off Grey Hunters this turn and flyrants continue to merk mehreens. Don't know why he thought his Dreadknight could tango with a buffed GUO but he charges it. I whiff first round of combat, but end up killing it in my turn. Nurgle Prince finishes off Grey Hunters in my turn as well. I had the Mucolids, Nurglings, and Horrors all in reserve and they all came in this turn. All mucolids mishap, one dies, two go into ongoing reserve, and the horrors and nurglings scatter away from their objectives. Meh, deepstrike.
Turn 3, he finishes off my ScreamerStar in his shooting phase and assaults the Nurgle Prince with 5 Purifiers who have Force. Nurgle Prince responds by eating them. He shuffles around a bit but only his Strike squad sits on an objective. Flyrants continue to do what they do and just dakka away. Nurglings grab an objective as well as the Nurgle Prince. We had to call it here due to time. I would have liked to see it play it to the bitter end, as I feel it would have been a close game.
All in all I think the list is pretty good. It performed admirably, especially considering the points deficit. Flyrants just cover so much of what Daemons lack without exposing any further weaknesses. That said, it could definitely use a few tweaks though, and I need more experience running it. A few thoughts:
-First off, the Screamerstar did almost nothing this game, which was frustrating. I didn't roll Cursed Earth, so no 2++ cheese. It was also the prime target of his alpha strike, so it was difficult to play them aggressively after taking heavy casualties. In other lists I have no problem summoning with this unit, but I found I was throwing so many dice at keeping the GUO and Nurgle Prince alive that I just didn't have the Warp Charges. This is partially due to the fact that I was expending more warp charges per power than I normally would since he so many denial dice. Also I kind of just had too many buffs to work with (I rolled Iron Arm, Endurance, and Warp Speed on BOTH of my Nurgle baddies. . . talk about picking your powers).
-A little bit more ObSec would have been nice. Might try to find points to replace a Mucolid with some Rippers.
-Flyrants are awesome (duh.) and the Nurgle Princes compliment them really well with their ability to kill just about any other MC in the game. With impunity if you roll up Warp Speed.
Thanks for sharing. A couple of thoughts:
1. I'm sad to see how far my favorite Imperial army (the Grey Knights) have dropped. I liked them so much better in the previous codex and it was more because of the flexibility and variety in army builds that they used to be able to run. Sigh.
2. I'm finding that, in a Daemon army, no matter how many good powers you get, you're only going to be able to cast maybe 25% of them....and that is actually on a good day. My Nurgle opponent got Iron Arm on both of his GUO's against me and not once did he even cast one of them. So don't be too happy when you get a lot of powers. More likely than not, you probably won't be able to use them.
3. Focus on Defensive powers first (i.e. Endurance vs force weapons, Invisibility if you have it, Cursed Earth, Forewarning, Shrouding for flyers, etc.), Summoning powers 2nd and offensive powers last (don't need to cast Warp Speed until you are actually in combat, you don't want to finish off the unit in your turn anyways). If your units are not in any danger, then just focus on Summoning.
4. Rippers > Mucolids because rippers score. However, since you are running the Leviathan formation, then no ObSec Tyranid troops for you anyways. Shore up your scoring with summoned daemons, daemonettes for offense and pink horrors for all other occasions.
5. Flyrants rock in almost any format/game. You're just a nice guy for not running 3 of them.
Don't give my sportsmanship a pat on the back just yet. . . Only not running 3 because I only own 2
Totally experienced the lack of casting ability even with 18 +D6 Warp Charge dice. While I was pleased to have the options, I was never able to use all of them, and even not using all of them I probably did over do it on casting buffs when I should have been summoning at least one unit a turn.
Against a lot of other lists I would have had a little more time to summon, but with 3 units full of force weapons plus a DreadKnight in my face turn 1 I had no choice but to buff up with Endurance. Summoning always goes after that, and I pretty much never use maledictions/witchfires against units that deny on anything but a 6.
All in all I think the list is pretty good. It performed admirably, especially considering the points deficit. Flyrants just cover so much of what Daemons lack without exposing any further weaknesses. That said, it could definitely use a few tweaks though, and I need more experience running it. A few thoughts:
-First off, the Screamerstar did almost nothing this game, which was frustrating. I didn't roll Cursed Earth, so no 2++ cheese. It was also the prime target of his alpha strike, so it was difficult to play them aggressively after taking heavy casualties. In other lists I have no problem summoning with this unit, but I found I was throwing so many dice at keeping the GUO and Nurgle Prince alive that I just didn't have the Warp Charges. This is partially due to the fact that I was expending more warp charges per power than I normally would since he so many denial dice. Also I kind of just had too many buffs to work with (I rolled Iron Arm, Endurance, and Warp Speed on BOTH of my Nurgle baddies. . . talk about picking your powers).
-A little bit more ObSec would have been nice. Might try to find points to replace a Mucolid with some Rippers.
-Flyrants are awesome (duh.) and the Nurgle Princes compliment them really well with their ability to kill just about any other MC in the game. With impunity if you roll up Warp Speed.
Thanks for the write up dude. I agree, Nids, specifically Flyrants make a Daemon list whole. You get so much for your money when comparing a Flyrant with a standard DP.
The problem with summoning and trying to make other units durable is the lack of psychic dice to do both as you have experienced.
this is why I like 3 heralds in a screamerstar plus fateweaver as that's giving you 11 rolls to get cursed earth and the other summing powers you need.
that way you don't need to be casting invisibility or shrouding, endurance or iron arm to keep your units durable.
The psychic dice in my experience should be mostly spent on summoning. I aim to summon 3 units a turn and cast cursed earth. I may switch to flickering fire in later turns if I feel the need.
Always happy to upload my experiences to the Hive Mind!
I'll give heavier summoning a try, but I just feel so meh on fateweaver. Adding malefic powers to each head does make him a bit more flexible now however.
I don't know where I'd get the points to add a third Herald to the Screamers in this type of list. A third Herald would probably require a pretty extensive overhaul of the Daemon detachment as I was hoping to have at least 4 scary MCs for threat overload. In a Tzeentchian configuration it would be 4 scary FLYING MC's which is tempting despite the GUOs awesome durability. The Balesword is so nice though. At least I have the problem of having too many good options to choose from.
Thanks for your thoughts!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/07 21:37:17
"Backfield? I have no backfield."
2014/12/07 22:01:37
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
2 Land Raiders
Storm Raven
Centurions (spelling?)
Some tac Sqauds
Thunderfire Cannon
by turn 3 it was a clear victor for nids.
Big Guns, Dawn of war table set up (Err 12" deployment) (1-3 would be 1st mission sets and 4-6 tactics mission sets)
Turn 1: Nids 1st Knowing the Centurions (Thunder fire cannon behind) couldnt over watch, I had my Sky Tyrant formation go after them only, EVERYthing else I pushed very hard to his tac sqauds and Land Raiders, was able to kill 2 tac squads and a Land Radier turn 1 (Haywire missles + 1 Ele grubs) I was lucky tbh with the Land Raider.
The Sky Tyrant form, took alot of hits from Cents+Thunder cannon (I moved and then Ran, got 5" run for a 17" turn one move) I lost 8 Goyles (had 6+ Cover + Night fight for a 5+ cover on golyes, I saved 4 Goyles).
With 1 land Raider, 15 marines, Cents and Cannon left, he focused Sky tyrant and my Warlord Tyrant only, he actually did really good and killed my Warlord.
Turn 2: All reserves come in, Drop on 3 Objectives (just sat and held no need to move them) Killed off another tac unit, put 2 HP's on Land raider and..... the big moment Sky Tyrant Form charged Centurions, (Went through Cover) I lost a couple goyles no wonder on tyrant, Tyrant killed 2 Centurions goyles put 1 wound on other.
SM player: His Storm Raven come in and did 4 wounds to 1 Hive Crone and 1 Wound to a Tyrant (trying to ground 1 or the other) Past Grounding checks, his other Tac squad was still in Land Raider (and IMO a smart move)
Turn 3 Dakka Flyrant killed Thunderfire canon, I land with it also (To charge next turn) Harpies both Shot last 2 missles into Storm Raven (He Jink) doing 2 Hp's, Sky Tyrant form killed off last Centurion.
My opponent conceded at that point.
Please Note: He didnt have his full army with him so he added a 2nd land Raider, I look forward to playing him again this time when he remembers to bring a couple missing units
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/12/07 22:16:11
jy2 wrote: I've got no problems with the Skytyrant unit against knights. Adlance? Bring it on! That 1100-pts of knights should be more afraid of getting tarpitted by my 550-pt skytyrant unit than vice versa. I'll hold them up for probably 3-4 game turns. Meanwhile, my army will destroy the rest of his army.
I'm not feeling 30 Gargoyles + a Tyrant have much chance of tarpitting 3 knights for 3-4 game turns. I think it is less than 1/2 that. 3 Rounds of combat, possibly. Every Stomp is removing 2-3 gargoyles. 3 Knights are going to stomp on average 6 times. That means 15 gargoyles per combat round. 2 Rounds, and likely one Knight is out of combat, and the other two get out on the 3rd round (aka on your turn). That means you tapit them for only 1 turn of the person playing the knights.
well that sucks about the malecepter. I really need something fun to paint as I'm finally getting back into my tyranids (blog in my signature) and I've already painted my tyrant guard.
not sure if these have been discussed but how are:
carnifexes, trygons and haruspexes?
also, on a scale of 1-10, how low would the malecepter be? I want to get one just to paint an display but i haven't got the money to buy something that costes 100 dollars and never use it.
*Insert witty and/or interesting statement here*
2014/12/08 13:44:53
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Tyranid Update List p.240)
Check the first post, every unit is explained there in detail.
And a Maleceptor would probably be a 3. It's very expensive, isn't really survivable for such a cost and doesn't do a lot. It gets +2 points because it looks cool.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/08 13:45:39
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
Now, a quick question on the SkyTyrant swarm as you've used it before. Would you consider taking Adrenal Glands on the Gargoyles? I'm thinking of running 30 gargs with the SkyTyrant, and I think for 75 points (including the Flyrant) the rerolls on the charge are massively useful, plus with such a big, fast unit, I think that multi-charges will happen a lot, so it'd be very useful to have that +1 strength to catch a couple of vehicles in there and put some hurt on them. Right now, I'm thinking of replacing the Imperial Knight and a gaunt blob in my army with a Flyrant with the Reaper, EG and Adrenal Glands and 30 gargoyles with Adrenal. It's a 510 point sink admittedly, but with Malanthrope support it'll hit like a Brick and be toug h to take down, especially when I'll have 3 
). Incinerators and massed bolter fire did put a dent in the ScreamerStar though.
). Nurgle Prince made it into combat with his Grey Hunters and killed a few.
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
